Belkar gets his: Cake and party hats all around!

[Alex Warlorn]

Belkar has finally, at least for the moment, gotten his!

CAKE AND PARTY HATS ALL AROUND!

Now I know how that admin who banned me on that Sonic The Hedgehog forum must have felt!

Yes Belkar, FEEL it!

"Punishing you would be like punishing the scorpion for being poisonous or the shark for being hungry.... BUT EVEN SHARKS CAN BE TRAINED!" -- Oh My Goddess/ Ranma 1/2 crossover with one of the three goddess and the utterly amoral Nabiki.

[evileeyore]

Belkar has finally, at least for the moment, gotten his!

CAKE AND PARTY HATS ALL AROUND!THE CAKE IS A LIE! Err... what , wrong line... hang on...

Her we go: JUSTICE IS SWEET! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0568.html)

[Morty]

I'd be amazed at the amount of hate people can feel for a webcomic character if it wasn't the same forum that hosted so many Miko threads.

[Albub]

God I hate Miko. I almost wish Belkar died and while he was kicking around in the afterlife got to poop on her or something. On that note, would it only be half the resurrection cost to bring back a halfling? 'Cause then it'd be way losing Belkar for a little while. I love when Miko gets pooped on, even though it's metaphorical most of the time.

[David Argall]

I have never understood the vigor of the anti-Miko crowd. She was annoying in the extreme, but she was still ready to risk her life to save yours, and without pay. By contrast, Belkar was quite happy to take your life, and your pay. And he is the one getting the fan mail instead of the hate mail.

[Chronos]

CAKE AND PARTY HATS ALL AROUND! I hope Belkar savors his.

And David, this isn't exactly "Belkar fan mail" in this thread.

[Ramien]

It doesn't really matter if you liked Belkar or not... this was a case of Revenge, a dish normally best served cold, served piping hot by a master chef.

[Renegade Paladin]

All right! Champagne all around! :smallbiggrin:

[Hippoboy]

I have never understood the vigor of the anti-Miko crowd. She was annoying in the extreme, but she was still ready to risk her life to save yours, and without pay. By contrast, Belkar was quite happy to take your life, and your pay. And he is the one getting the fan mail instead of the hate mail.

Simple, Miko is self-righteous and annoying while belkar is unpretentious and hosts a good number of the comic's punchlines.
Honesty appears to be a good thing.

[Karkadinn]

Simple, Miko is self-righteous and annoying while belkar is unpretentious and hosts a good number of the comic's punchlines.
Honesty appears to be a good thing.

Or to put it more cynically, people will cheer for any character that makes them laugh and boo any character that plays the role of straight man, regardless of the virtues or lack thereof of either character.

[aaron_the_cow]

Miko is Lawful Good Square and Belcar is Chaotic Evil Funkey!

[Mauve Shirt]

Why has this become a Miko thread?

Cake! Hooray!
The oracle's revenge is the best punchline in a while, for me. :smallbiggrin:

[Hippoboy]

Or to put it more cynically, people will cheer for any character that makes them laugh and boo any character that plays the role of straight man, regardless of the virtues or lack thereof of either character.

probably true

And am I the only person who doesn't feel the urge to mock belkar for his pain? I do find the moj funny through :smallbiggrin:

[limbodog]

Anyone care to throw a bone to a poor unejimicated reader? What just happened? Why did he get burning kanji on his forehead and what's it got to do with the kobold town with the best name for a town not in England?

[Gargor]

Why do people hate Miko more than Belkar? Remember that grade school teacher who was overly strict and had no sense of humor? Who punished you for the most nonsensical reasons? That's Miko. Like Roy said (paraphrasing) She is technically good, but not good in any real way. Also look at all the distruction she wrought. She beat up the Ooots members, almost killing Roy; Killed the rightful King of Azure city, right before it fell under seige leadin to political chaos, almost killed the rightful heir to Azure city; destroyed the snarl portal, wekaing the fabric of the universe and letting Xykon and Redcloak get away. Think about how many innocents those two will kill due to Miko. Plus dispite this she is the definition of self-Rightous. Belkar? All he has killed have been pointless NPCs and all for the fun and amusment of the readers. Gnomes and Kobolds were put on earth to be killed. True i did feel bad for the orcale, he was a kool guy, but that's what you get for being a monster npc . http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/smilies/smallstick/smalltongue.gif

[Remirach]

Anyone care to throw a bone to a poor unejimicated reader? What just happened? Why did he get burning kanji on his forehead and what's it got to do with the kobold town with the best name for a town not in England?
Back in 295 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html") he was given the Mark of Justice, which is a curse that can be set off either a) by a command word, b) by Belkar being more than 1 mile away from Roy or c) by him dealing lethal damage to any living creature within the bounds of a city, town or village. Belkar was free to kill who he liked when outside of a town, but the Oracle had a village set up behind his tower so that his murder would constitute a violation of the terms, setting off the Mark.

[Trazoi]

Why has this become a Miko thread?
It's the special variant of Godwin's law for these forums. The longer a discussion goes for, the probability it turns into a debate on Miko approaches one.


Anyone care to throw a bone to a poor unejimicated reader? What just happened? Why did he get burning kanji on his forehead and what's it got to do with the kobold town with the best name for a town not in England?
It's best explained on strip #295 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html).

Edit: Beaten by Remiarch at being nice and providing the link :smallsmile:

[JazzManJim]

Simple, Miko is self-righteous and annoying while belkar is unpretentious and hosts a good number of the comic's punchlines.
Honesty appears to be a good thing.

Alternately, Belkar is a tangible impediment to the OOTS as they have to spend time bailing him out of trouble and making sure he doesn't kill people important to them. He's amoral, is incapable of self-sacrifice or restraint not compelled by a direct an tangible loss to himself, and is pretty much the textbook jerk.

My only misgiving about what has happened to him here is that his "friends" will have to spend even more time than normal catering to his well-being while getting absolutely no return consideration from him.

[zippthorne]

Nah, It's always good to see Chekhov's gun go off. And this might literally be the opening act to a little character development for our favorite mass-murdering psychopath.

Whether he comes out of it less of a psychopath.. or alive.. remains to be seen. I Hope he doesn't just die, because as the least sympathetic character he's also the most disposable, but that means that his death has the least emotional impact.

[dworkin]

Can we blow the party things that go parp?

<PARP>

Yay, the little homicidal turd gets it! These characters always annoy me due to the constant derailment of almost any non fighting scene. Belkar may be funny but that's because it's a comic.

Sympathy for Belkar? Sympathy mode not found. Dancing and pissing on grave mode availiable (y/n)?

[David Argall]

Why do people hate Miko more than Belkar? Remember that grade school teacher who was overly strict and had no sense of humor? Who punished you for the most nonsensical reasons? That's Miko. Like Roy said (paraphrasing) She is technically good, but not good in any real way.
On the available evidence, she was more interested in good than he was. She is the first to want to go after the ogres. When Roy protects Belkar, he rejects any appeal on the grounds of good.


Also look at all the distruction she wrought. She beat up the Ooots members, almost killing Roy; Killed the rightful King of Azure city, right before it fell under seige leadin to political chaos, almost killed the rightful heir to Azure city; destroyed the snarl portal, wekaing the fabric of the universe and letting Xykon and Redcloak get away.
Now except for beating up Roy, which he quickly forgave for good reason, all of this happened long after the "I hate Miko" club was in full swing. They are thus excuses for hating Miko, not reasons. She also have justifications of varying degrees of soundness for these actions.


Belkar? All he has killed have been pointless NPCs and all for the fun and amusment of the readers. Gnomes and Kobolds were put on earth to be killed.
Now do you really seriously want to defend that position? That nobody has any moral rights unless they are somehow labeled major character? Or do you wish to acknowledge that Belker is entirely a monster whose demise should be celebrated by all who know him?

[Raging Gene Ray]

I always thought Belkar was a reference to that player in the campaign who deliberately hinders the rest of the party and would be killed/abandoned by the other characters if they were to be role-played accurately.

However, nobody wants to hurt the other player's feelings, so everyone has their characters come up with convoluted rationalizations to bail him out...until the DM decides to give him what-for.

[Gargor]

Ugh smiley face fail....

[Dacia Brabant]

Why has this become a Miko thread?


Every thread is a Miko thread.

As for Belkar, if any Jerkass ever deserved his comeuppance it's him. I especially liked how it put paid to his fourth-wall breaking justification for his acts (echoing many of his fans' sentiments no less) by giving him a serious plot issue of his own, one he can't solve by stabbing. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[Raging Gene Ray]

Every thread is a Miko thread.


Except for, ironically, the Pro-Miko thread.

[TroyXavier]

All I can say is..about time he got his.:D

[Kato]

Could we stop talking of Miko in a thread dedicated to teh Belkster? Thanks a lot.

I feel a little sorry, for him, but it's funny anyway, hehe. Still, I'm quite sure it won't last too long... he'd be completely useless, if he can't move on his own, or whatever it causes him to do...

[sihnfahl]

I feel a little sorry, for him, but it's funny anyway, hehe. Still, I'm quite sure it won't last too long... he'd be completely useless, if he can't move on his own, or whatever it causes him to do...
Why do you feel sorry for him at all?

The MoJ was Roy's last-ditch effort to rein Belkar in and keep the psychotic halfling from causing more trouble and becoming a hinderance to Roy's quest to stop Xykon. The only alternative that Roy had would have been to kill Belkar (since the little psycho would have busted out of any jail), but then he'd have lost a useful tool against Xykon.

Belkar knew the restrictions on him. He even found ways around it (using the Eye of Fear and Flame to kill inside the confines of a city).

And, for his own ego and gratification, believing he wouldn't suffer any consequences, he kills a Plot Important NPC who could have helped get Roy back faster.

What's there to feel sorry about?

[Sir_Elderberry]

Belkar's death will evoke emotions because we've spent the past 568 strips watching him do (mostly) heroic things, in the sense that he's been helping OotS. Does he do bad things? Yep. Is he a terrible person? Again, yes, except that we all know halflings aren't people. Is he a very funny, enjoyable character? To many of us, yes. And that's enough to make us hope he doesn't die, regardless of whether he deserves it.

[Om]

About bloody time. Its taken far too long for this psychotic little moron to get his comeuppance

[Kato]

And, for his own ego and gratification, believing he wouldn't suffer any consequences, he kills a Plot Important NPC who could have helped get Roy back faster.

What's there to feel sorry about?

Er... dude, you do realize he didn't know he was in a village, so he didn't expect the MoJ to go off? You make it sound, like he's a self righteous bastard... okay, he is one. But he killed him for good reasons. At least he had to fulfill the prophecy the oracle itself gave him, didn't he? Can't fight destiny. Anyway, the oracle's probably not gone forever, and there are other means to get Roy back. Also the orange loser totally provoked him :P
Nah, serious. We all knew he'd kill him. It was destiny, kinda. Also he can't be blamed, Rich made him do it. And now he loses a hell lot of got lines, I'm afraid. What's Belkar without being able to harm random people he encounters? I just think he was kinda stripped of his life's meaning, if he's now really completely unable to fight.

[seraphimovic]

i like belkar. i like his attitude, yes i do. ok, he's maybe a tad more evil than my taste but i like the way he isn't tied up by anything than his own interests. roleplaying games (remember this is just game, right?) are not supposed to mimic real life. or at least that's my opinion. you get to be the evil guy and have some random fun if you so wish. and that guy is belkar.

[sihnfahl]

Er... dude, you do realize he didn't know he was in a village, so he didn't expect the MoJ to go off?
Go back and read what I wrote again.

And, for his own ego and gratification, believing he wouldn't suffer any consequences, he kills a Plot Important NPC who could have helped get Roy back faster.


And now he loses a hell lot of got lines, I'm afraid. What's Belkar without being able to harm random people he encounters?
And how many good insults of opportunity did he get off on Hinjo? How many good zingers did he give the other members of the Order? How well did he push Haley's, Roy's and V's buttons when he put his mind to it? His 'good lines' are separate from being a 'ooh, NPC who's a chunk of XP for me! *stab*'

[Tola]

...I wouldn't break out the party stuff JUST yet.

We have no idea how dangerous the Curse Of Justice is-we've only seen a single shock. I won't be entirely happy till:

1. It turns out to be a 'Kill' curse.

2. It turns out to be 'Excruciating Pain for eternity' curse.

3. It turns out to be a 'Severe Stat Drain' Curse. Like 'All Stats to 1' bad. For better effect, make it permanent till dispelled, or even permanent, period.

4. A timed Opposite Alignment effect. Severity dictates how long it lasts, and the worst offences make it permanent. The potential to lose 'himself' through his actions would be a wake-up call, at least. And if it ended up permenent, he's just been turned into a model citizen. That, oddly, seems the most Paladiny, though far harsher than a Paladin should be....he's earned it.

4. Celia, seeing that it's none of these, makes like Emperor Palpatine. He deserves far more, and it's not even breaking alignment-he is unrepentant Evil through and through. An entirely valid target under any and all circumstances, in other words.

[SmartAlec]

But he killed him for good reasons.

In the case of the Oracle, as in many cases before, I get the feeling that Belkar's reason for killing is simple: "Because I wanted to." And then he makes up excuses to justify it later.

[Uncle Festy]

I like Belkar personally, but that doesn't mean I can't laugh at him!
Ha ha, looser! :smalltongue:

[Lupy]

I have never understood the vigor of the anti-Miko crowd. She was annoying in the extreme, but she was still ready to risk her life to save yours, and without pay. By contrast, Belkar was quite happy to take your life, and your pay. And he is the one getting the fan mail instead of the hate mail.

I agree, Belkar is well liked because he cracks jokes, but he is a sickening person. Miko on the other hand is hated by most because she hindered the OotS, but she was still a good person. Would you rather know, as David put it, a woman who would die to save you or a man who would kill you just for saying hello wrong? And I believe that this may be the shortest post David has ever made. :smallwink:

@GeneRay: If I ever kill myself, the knowledge I was responsible for the Pro-Miko thread will be a leading cause. :smalltongue:

[Ktulu]

I think some people take this comic way too seriously... sure it has to have SOME character development etc etc, but primarily it's a humour strip. Why else would everyone be drawn as stick figures? Whenever I try and hook one of my friends into reading OotS, first thing I mention is the one stick figure (guess which one) killing/disembowling/insulting another stick figure three times his size.

So in short... B's up!

[CliveStaples]

I agree with Mssrs. Argall and sihnfahl; Belkar fully deserves his punishment. He randomly murders people for the sheer enjoyment of it; he's quite obviously evil. His presence is tolerated only because he is useful in combating greater evils. I hope he gets killed off; psychosis has never been an attractive trait in anti-heroes, in my opinion.

[Chronos]

Would you rather know, as David put it, a woman who would die to save you or a man who would kill you just for saying hello wrong?Correction: A woman who would die to save me, and take the entire rest of the city down with her. Granted, that was after Belkar drove her even more insane than she already was, but she was always pretty bloodthirsty for a supposed Lawful Good.

That said, I wouldn't particularly want to hang out with either of them. And I'm very glad that Belkar is getting at least some measure of justice (even though it'll probably turn out to be a lot less than he deserves).

[seraphimovic]

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions". miko is definitely going to hell. at least belkar is honest about being evil. miko is supposedly good (i can't stand paladins, so they'll never be good in my book) yet she brings destruction and suffering to the very innocents she's sworn to protect. all because she can't admit she's wrong. she has a fixed idea that those who don't see as she does are evil. she's a robot.
back to belkar. i'm pretty sure that he'll make it through this. and we'll have a good time watching it happen.

[Archangel Yuki]

Anyone else notice that the explination says he is supposed to "Get sick until he cannot hurt people anymore" when the mark goes off, yet his line the the latest seems to sound more like pain?

[Tempest Fennac]

Extreme pain would have a similar effect to being too ill to hurt people (the mark could inflict pain while making him ill).

[Soviet Razor]

He could also just be pissed.

[drunkmonk]

Belkar is Rich Burlew's Id. He is not going anywhere. No other protagonist allows Burlew to express the darker and more violent side of his humor.

Almost anybody who enjoys Belkar's character (myself included), enjoys seeing him take it in the shorts. It is funny. Readers are supposed to laugh at the little psychopath's jokes, and laugh when he gets what is coming to him. If you are only laughing at one side of that you are missing out, it is all funny.

This difference, more than anything else, is what separates the regular fans from the fanboys. If you are so caught up in one character that you lose perspective, you are in danger of crossing a line that can seriously decrease the enjoyment of the comic.

Incidentally, it is one of the main reasons why some regular people don’t like Miko. Some fans take her character way too seriously. It is almost rabid in some cases. I have read some threads and just shook my head in disbelief at how invested people are in a support character. Maybe it is the twin scimitar wielding thing, or maybe the hot Asian girl thing? I don’t know.

DM

[Jamaican Castle]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but he's not dead. If I recall the terms of the original Mark of Justice (assuming this isn't some weird homegrown version), it doesn't kill anything, merely curses him, reducing his stats (I recall someone noting it'd make him too weak to kill anything, but that might've just been a guess). Oh, and I'm pretty sure it's permanent.

[ericgrau]

He's not dead yet. It only makes him sicker and sicker until he's unable to kill (or exert much physical force for anything, I'm sure). Most likely he'll be weak now, but still able to act. Later he'll be so debilitated that he'll barely be able to travel. They'll probably toss him in the cart with Roy and keep going until they can find a cure for both.

But, according to the oracle during a previous strip, Belkar doesn't have long to live. He could be gone in anywhere between 0 and 19 months. And he won't be back to retire either. Either that or there's some convoluted explanation why Belkar shouldn't "bother funding his retirement" and why "he should savor his next birthday cake".

Though OotS could be at the final gate by then.

[Lupy]

To alot of people above me:

Yes, Belkar is funny when he kills things or is evil, and when he has to pay for it. But Belkar is still a horrible person and Miko is not. Last time I checked Paranoia is a mental disorder, so Miko is still good, just paranoid good. And no, if it's a city of innocents she wouldn't take it down, just everyone who she views as a threat (sorry city guard). And if you hate all Paladins then aren't you biased so that no matter what you never would've pitied Miko?

[Om]

Almost anybody who enjoys Belkar's character (myself included), enjoys seeing him take it in the shortsThen rejoice because this is the first time in a long while that he's been knocked back. Since his trial its been all Sexy Shoeless God of War and (increasingly) random murders

[drunkmonk]

last time you checked paranoia is a mental disorder? That seems like you are going out of you way to make excuses for a character you like and then ignore that someone using your excuses could find Belkar (and every other evil character) good. He is not good. Miko, despite where she may have started out, ended up a horrible person.

For the record, I like paladins, a warforged paladin called Bulwark was one my favorite characters. There is no anti-paladin conspiracy at work here. I enjoyed watching Belkar get it for murdering a defenseless kobold, just like I enjoyed Miko's fall when she murdered a defenseless old man.

Karma is a bitch.

DM

[Ted The Bug]

Cake is fail.
CAEK is win. Also, the little guy will finally be weak.:smallbiggrin:

[CarpeGuitarrem]

4. A timed Opposite Alignment effect. Severity dictates how long it lasts, and the worst offences make it permanent. The potential to lose 'himself' through his actions would be a wake-up call, at least. And if it ended up permenent, he's just been turned into a model citizen. That, oddly, seems the most Paladiny, though far harsher than a Paladin should be....he's earned it.

*chuckle*

That reminds me of when V cast Owl's Wisdom on Belkar, and he was on the brink of turning his life around. Hehe...

[brilliantlight]

As bitchy as Miko was she never was half as evil as Belkar. You also have to remember Belkar was pushing all her buttons and he is good at that.

[David Argall]

That seems like you are going out of you way to make excuses for a character you like and then ignore that someone using your excuses could find Belkar (and every other evil character) good.
There is no need to make excuses for Miko. She remained a paladin until she killed Shojo, and Soon is friendly to her as she died. She was thus LG until near the end and the closer we put her to LG at her death, the easier it is to account for Soon's behavior and words. Evil alignment is just right out.
The parallel with Belkar is those who deny she was LG [or quite close to it] and those who deny he is CE.

[drunkmonk]

I like you use of thus, like your opinion means anything to me. Miko was a paladin until she murdered a helpless old man. She would have been a paladin up until she did any evil act.

We can agree that paladins are defined by Lawful Good. She was that at some time in her career, or she would not have been a paladin at all. But she had a design flaw - she was a violent egomaniac. She embodied Wrath & Pride.

Soon was full of pity and compassion when he addresses Miko. That is less a endorsement of Miko, and more a reflection of his status as a true paladin.

Evil alignment is right out? That is cute. I like how you tell me what is true in a make believe world. Lets take someone who has acted with honor, and has worked for the side of law their whole life - lets say a police captain in you neck of the woods. He walks up to you father sitting in a chair and murders him in cold blood for an insane reason, you are going to tell me that evil is right out. You get credit against evil deeds by doing good deeds? Like killing monsters? Belkar must be good after all.

The only problem I have is with people who only see evil in the characters the don't like. Belkar deserves to be burned at the stake. But so did Miko. How many murders does it take to get to the center of a tootsy pop? One.

They both are good characters, they both had good lines, the only difference is that the people who enjoy Belkar's character know he is evil. The weird Miko fanboys who defend her creep me out.

DM

[Forum Staff]

This thread is horribly off-topic.

This thread had no mention of Miko in its first post, but was quickly turned into yet another rehash of the same points which persisted even after several people asked for the thread to get back on topic. These discussions have prevented people from discussing other topics long enough; they need to stop. From now on, derailing a thread whose topic is not Miko with discussions about Miko will result in infractions for anyone who continues the derailment.

There will be infractions for this thread as well.