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GlordFunkelhand
2008-06-20, 05:31 PM
Let's say I have a cleric1/paladin5 with a charisma modifier of +4. How many times can he turn undead? 3+4 because he's a cleric and 3+4 because he's a paladin? So 14 times a day total? If I give him the feat granting for extra turns, he could do 18 times turn undead/day? And with the Divine Might feat he could basically use his cha modifier for pretty much every attack, right?

Please tell me that I understood something wrong, because this seems to way to strong, esp. in comparison to what the barbarian and the warblade in the group can dish out in melee...

Killersquid
2008-06-20, 05:43 PM
I believe they are different. Paladins turn as a cleric 3 levels lower, so its weaker, but they don't stack charges.

marjan
2008-06-20, 05:53 PM
If the multiple classes give you Turn Undead you only stack them for purpose of determining effective level for your Turn Undead. In this case you would Trun Undead as level 3 cleric and have 7 uses/day, or 11 uses/day with Extra Turning.

RTGoodman
2008-06-20, 06:01 PM
If the multiple classes give you Turn Undead you only stack them for purpose of determining effective level for your Turn Undead. In this case you would Trun Undead as level 3 cleric and have 7 uses/day, or 11 uses/day with Extra Turning.

I think this is correct. Your Cleric and Paladin levels might stack, though, for the maximum HD of undead you can turn (since your turning check gives you a result of "Cleric Level +/- X"). Since your Paladin version says "She turns undead as a cleric of three levels lower would," you might say that your level when determining HD of undead would be, in your example, 3 (1 from your Cleric level, and [5-3]=2 from your Paladin levels). Not certain on this, though.

GlordFunkelhand
2008-06-20, 06:05 PM
Thanks, that's what I hoped :)
Any idea where I can find that info? We're playing a 3.x campaign, with the meaning of 3.0 with some stuff from 3.5 mixed in).

marjan
2008-06-20, 06:12 PM
Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead) is the Turn Undead. There is no mention here about stacking levels of Paladin and Cleric, but I think it is mentioned in the PHB under cleric, paladin or special attacks.

RTGoodman
2008-06-20, 06:17 PM
Thanks, that's what I hoped :)
Any idea where I can find that info? We're playing a 3.x campaign, with the meaning of 3.0 with some stuff from 3.5 mixed in).

Well, I don't see anything like it in the 3.5 FAQ or the 3.5 PHB errata, but you could maybe check the 3.0 versions of the FAQ and errata if you're focusing on that version, but I doubt it's there either. It might just be something you'll have to just come to a consensus about with your DM.

GlordFunkelhand
2008-06-20, 06:49 PM
Hehe, I am the GM.
I just made that cleric/pala for a new player and my wife (who's playing the barbarian) complained that my clr/pal build was more powerful than her barb.

I just assumed that the turn undead counts would stack, basically because I couldn't find anything that said they don't. Kinda like a sorc/wizard combination would have different spell lists and different spell slots per class, I assumed that a cleric/paladin would have different "turn undead slots" per class.

Maybe I should house rule that you can't add the CHA modifier twice or that adding another class with TU/per day is to be treated like the additional turn attempt feat (+4 TU per day which would be slightly more powerful than the first option).

Chronos
2008-06-20, 07:45 PM
3.0 PHB, page 56:

In the special case of turning undead, both clerics and experienced paladins have the same ability. If the character's paladin is level 3 or higher, her effective turning level is her cleric level plus her paladin level minus 2. Thus, a 5th-level paladin/4th-level cleric turns undead like a 7th-level cleric.No mention of increasing the number of uses; you just turn like a higher-level cleric.

marjan
2008-06-20, 08:12 PM
3.0 PHB, page 56:
No mention of increasing the number of uses; you just turn like a higher-level cleric.

What is on page 56 of 3.0 PHB (cleric, paladin)? In 3.5 wizard is on p56 and neither cleric's, nor paladin's Turn Undead mention anything like that (or I don't see it).

Ionizer
2008-06-20, 08:21 PM
What is on page 56 of 3.0 PHB (cleric, paladin)? In 3.5 wizard is on p56 and neither cleric's, nor paladin's Turn Undead mention anything like that (or I don't see it).

It's the section about Multiclassing at the end of the "Classes" Chapter.


3.0 PHB, page 56:


In the special case of turning undead, both clerics and experienced paladins have the same ability. If the character's paladin is level 3 or higher, her effective turning level is her cleric level plus her paladin level minus 2. Thus, a 5th-level paladin/4th-level cleric turns undead like a 7th-level cleric.
No mention of increasing the number of uses; you just turn like a higher-level cleric.

Although, that is wrong. Check page 59 of the 3.5 Player's Handbook. It's slightly different (emphasis mine):


In the special case of turning undead, both clerics and experienced paladins have the same ability. If the character's paladin is level 3 or higher, her effective turning level is her cleric level plus her paladin level minus 3. Thus, a 5th-level paladin/4th-level cleric turns undead like a 6th-level cleric.

I'm assuming it was a typo in 3.0 that they fixed in the reprint.

RTGoodman
2008-06-20, 08:33 PM
I'm assuming it was a typo in 3.0 that they fixed in the reprint.

Or Paladins got Turn Undead earlier in 3.0, though I don't know if that's true or not.

Either way, it seems that's the correct rule - you don't get more turning attempts, but for the parts of turning that require you to use your Cleric level, you use your Cleric level plus (Paladin Level - 3).

GlordFunkelhand
2008-06-21, 04:38 AM
If the character's paladin is level 3 or higher, her effective turning level is her cleric level plus her paladin level minus 2. Thus, a 5th-level paladin/4th-level cleric turns undead like a 7th-level cleric.
Ok, the turning level is determined by the paladin level -2 (in 3.0 the pala gets TU at level 3). But there's n mentioning of the number of attempts. Only how the attempts are resolved.

KillianHawkeye
2008-06-21, 05:09 AM
That's because the number of times you can Turn Undead is not based on level. It's a flat 3 + Charisma bonus per day.