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Matthew
2008-06-21, 06:47 PM
So, who picked up any goodies today?

I got quite a lot of cool stuff:

Traveller Quick Start Rules
A Song of Ice and Fire Quick Start Rules
Castles & Crusades Quick Start Rules and Dwarven Glory II
Starsiege Event Horizon - Introduction Manual
Tunnels & Trolls - Take the Money
Dungeon Crawl Classics - Punjar: The Tarnished Jewel
Harnworld - Field of Daisies
Hollow Earth Expedition - Free Adventure
Pathfinder - Revenge of the Kobold King
Iron Heroes - Bloodwood
Dungeons & Dragons 4e - Treasure of Talon Pass

I felt a bit guilty picking up a copy of C&C QSR, since I already have the game, but I suppose I can always pass it onto a likely individual.

UserClone
2008-06-21, 07:00 PM
There are exactly 0 participating stores in my state, unfortunately. :smallfrown:

Reinboom
2008-06-21, 09:02 PM
That's... almost the same exact set of books that the store I work at gave away. Amazing.

But add in a Miskatonic Murder Mystery thing.

Matthew
2008-06-21, 09:11 PM
That's... almost the same exact set of books that the store I work at gave away. Amazing.

But add in a Miskatonic Murder Mystery thing.

Hmmn? All participating stores get sent the same books (http://www.freerpgday.com/sponsors.html), as far as I know... I didn't pick up Castlemourn, World of Darkness - Hunter, Heirs of Olympus and the free Call of Cthulu LARP thingy, as I didn't really fancy them. The store wasn't sure about the free dice, they thought they might be intended for running the games instore (which they didn't do).

AlterForm
2008-06-21, 09:12 PM
Awww, man. They had a Pathfinder item? :smallfrown:

Oh well; I can just snag the free PDF on the 23rd.

I also grabbed Talon Pass; gonna run my group through it tomorrow most likely. :smallbiggrin:

THAC0
2008-06-21, 09:47 PM
I was quite impressed to actually have a participating store all the way up here.

We got:

Traveller Quick Start Rules
A Song of Ice and Fire Quick Start Rules
Dungeons & Dragons 4e - Treasure of Talon Pass
Hunter
Changeling
And a sheet of terrain tiles

Reinboom
2008-06-21, 09:52 PM
Hmmn? All participating stores get sent the same books (http://www.freerpgday.com/sponsors.html), as far as I know... I didn't pick up Castlemourn, World of Darkness - Hunter, Heirs of Olympus and the free Call of Cthulu LARP thingy, as I didn't really fancy them. The store wasn't sure about the free dice, they thought they might be intended for running the games instore (which they didn't do).

Well, that explains a lot. :smalltongue:

I don't pay attention to how we get things, just that I hand them out.

Matthew
2008-06-21, 10:00 PM
Well, that explains a lot. :smalltongue:

I don't pay attention to how we get things, just that I hand them out.
Right you are.

Killersquid
2008-06-21, 10:12 PM
They have a Song of Ice and Fire Role Playing game? WHY WASN'T I TOLD?!

brian c
2008-06-21, 10:16 PM
They have a Song of Ice and Fire Role Playing game? WHY WASN'T I TOLD?!

They have a Song of Ice and Fire Role Playing game.


(I don't know what that is, but I thought it might comfort him. He'll be even more distraught when he realizes that not only does it exist but he could have gotten it for free)

JaxGaret
2008-06-21, 10:36 PM
Why wasn't I informed of this before it already happened?

They had free 4e stuff. Of course, it was probably all gone a minute after the store opened...

Lord Tataraus
2008-06-21, 10:41 PM
Wait what?? I never heard about this...of course I bet no one around me participated but still...

RTGoodman
2008-06-21, 11:01 PM
Wait what?? I never heard about this...of course I bet no one around me participated but still...

Yeah, that's the same reaction and problem I had. Shame, too. I would have liked to see that Pathfinder thing. Also, what's the D&D 4E thing? Just an adventure or what?

Matthew
2008-06-21, 11:26 PM
Yeah, that's the same reaction and problem I had. Shame, too. I would have liked to see that Pathfinder thing. Also, what's the D&D 4E thing? Just an adventure or what?

Yeah, they're both adventures. The D&D 4e thing consists of a short adventure, five pregenerated characters, some map tiles, and a model of a wraith. The adventure consists of about a dozen encounters. I found it a bit boring to read.

Charity
2008-06-22, 10:07 AM
Well if you don't want it Matt...

I missed it, damnit, theres a store in Reading as well, only a short drive.

Matthew
2008-06-22, 10:28 AM
Well if you don't want it Matt...

I missed it, damnit, theres a store in Reading as well, only a short drive.
Well, I haven't played it yet... but if it turns out to play as boring as it reads, I will keep you in mind. :smallwink:

AKA_Bait
2008-06-22, 11:18 AM
dangnabit! I never know when these things are. Is it posted someplace?

Matthew
2008-06-22, 11:26 AM
dangnabit! I never know when these things are. Is it posted someplace?

Sure, the official website can be found here: Free RPG Day (http://www.freerpgday.com/)

AKA_Bait
2008-06-22, 11:50 AM
Awesome, thanks.

Morty
2008-06-22, 12:16 PM
Funny how it's "worldwide" yet in Europe there are only two shops oustide England or Germany that participate.:smallwink:

Raider
2008-06-22, 01:54 PM
We were only allowed 2 itmes:smalleek:

Ulrichomega
2008-06-22, 05:16 PM
We were only allowed 2 items also, but the stores near me also had games all day. I played in two of the funniest super-hero games that I have ever been in. Character creation was hilarious in the second one. One of the the characters had 32 strength (2 is an average person). We were supposed to be newbie superheroes too.

drawingfreak
2008-06-22, 11:25 PM
I managed to get a free adventure for the XCrawl campaign setting for D&D 3.5 and I gotta say, it is pretty cool. I like the idea of having a modern day sporting event in a fantasy setting just being a live broadcast of a dungeon crawl.

Awesome.

RTGoodman
2008-06-23, 12:51 AM
I managed to get a free adventure for the XCrawl campaign setting for D&D 3.5 and I gotta say, it is pretty cool. I like the idea of having a modern day sporting event in a fantasy setting just being a live broadcast of a dungeon crawl.

Awesome.

XCrawl is pretty neat, though some of it is just silly or stupid (especially NPC names and stuff like that). Our college gaming club's semester-long RPG was in the XCrawl setting (and ended with my Gnome Wizard and a Human Barbarian as the rulers of the North American Empire :smalltongue:). The problem I see with the setting is that it seems almost dead in the water, with very few published supplements (other than the Setting book, the "Selling Out" supplement or whatever it's called, and some adventures).

jcsw
2008-06-23, 03:27 AM
It seems my entire continent doesn't participate. Go Asia. :(

Matthew
2008-06-23, 07:05 AM
It seems my entire continent doesn't participate. Go Asia. :(

Well, last year it was only the US that participated, so maybe next year even more countries will take part.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-23, 07:25 AM
I managed to pick up the 4e adventure as well as the nWoD Hunter: the Vigil. Hunter seems pretty good... almost good enough to get me back into World of Darkness.

Matthew
2008-06-23, 03:36 PM
I managed to pick up the 4e adventure as well as the nWoD Hunter: the Vigil. Hunter seems pretty good... almost good enough to get me back into World of Darkness.

What did you think of the Treasure of Talon Pass, Sam? I know you have a generally positive view of 4e and Keep on the Shadowfell, so it would be useful for me to hear how you rated it comparatively.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-24, 09:36 AM
What did you think of the Treasure of Talon Pass, Sam? I know you have a generally positive view of 4e and Keep on the Shadowfell, so it would be useful for me to hear how you rated it comparatively.

I didn't get a chance to sit down and read it very carefully as I had people over my house and just started another college class yesterday.

That said:

When I first cracked it open, it really reminded me of the old 2nd Ed modules that I would buy, with the maps on the loose cover and the "innards" not attached to the cover, it was nostolgic, you could say.

What little I did read, seemed to point to the fact that its a straight dungeon crawl, multi-level Diablo style hack-and-slash. While sometimes those are fun, I prefer a little more potatoes to go with my meat, ya know? I think it will make for a good insert into my campaign as a side quest... perhaps up the level of the monsters slightly and make it a 3rd level adventure to bridge the gap from Keep on Shadowfell and ... Pyramid of Shadows? I think that's the second adventure.

I'd be interested to find out what other people think of it. I do need to take some time to read it more in depth... but the many roles of society that are thrust upon me really limit my time. :smallbiggrin:

hamlet
2008-06-24, 09:48 AM
I missed the new Song of Ice and Fire rules?

Now I'm just gonna have to go curl up in the corner and cry.

Dang, who put those out again?

Tengu
2008-06-24, 10:13 AM
They have a Song of Ice and Fire Role Playing game? WHY WASN'T I TOLD?!

Couldn't it just be represented by playing GURPS with the "remember, GM - be a total di*k to your players" clause added?

hamlet
2008-06-24, 10:31 AM
Couldn't it just be represented by playing GURPS with the "remember, GM - be a total di*k to your players" clause added?

No, not really.

Surprisingly (at least to me) the D20 version that came out from Guardians of Order was . . .well . . . REALLY GOOD.

Usually I'll be the first person to decry the craze to convert everything to D20, but in some cases, it really works well and this is one of thsoe cases.

But Green Ronin's idea with the dice pools sounds interesting.


And no, the premise behind the world isn't to be a jerk to the players, but that the world is violent and cruel and that stupid actions are punished brutally. I mean, one has only to look at the fate of Gregor Clegane to realize that.

Or Rob Stark.

Or Catelyn.

Or Ned Stark.

Or Cersei.

Or the Red Viper.

Or Tyrion.

Or . . . well . .. . just about everybody really.

Bad things happen in this world and the only advice I'd give the DM of a Westeros game is 1) Don't insulate your players from the consequences of their actions and 2) The PC's are not the heroes by default of being controlled by the players and "the bad guys" are as much heroes as they are.

It's just not a "heroic" world. It's much more realistic than that.

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2008-06-24, 11:05 AM
I got free stuff!

Better yet, one guy broke open the 4e adventure and we took the pre-gens and played right then and there. It was a blast! I came out with a handful of free swag. I got Song of Fire and Ice for my best bud who loves the books but didn't get out to the game store that weekend, and a bunch of stuff for myself.

I nabbed the 4e adventure, the Pathfinder 3.5e adventure, the Heirs to Olympia game out of curiosity, the Miskatonic Muder Mystery game, a pencil, and a D&D mini.

I got Traveller as well, because I'm more or less amused that this game just can't die. Traveller has become the Rasputin of RPGs.

Matthew
2008-06-24, 11:44 AM
I didn't get a chance to sit down and read it very carefully as I had people over my house and just started another college class yesterday.

Okay.



That said:

When I first cracked it open, it really reminded me of the old 2nd Ed modules that I would buy, with the maps on the loose cover and the "innards" not attached to the cover, it was nostolgic, you could say.

Yes, I thought the same.



What little I did read, seemed to point to the fact that its a straight dungeon crawl, multi-level Diablo style hack-and-slash. While sometimes those are fun, I prefer a little more potatoes to go with my meat, ya know? I think it will make for a good insert into my campaign as a side quest... perhaps up the level of the monsters slightly and make it a 3rd level adventure to bridge the gap from Keep on Shadowfell and ... Pyramid of Shadows? I think that's the second adventure.

Yeah, I thought the concept was actually quite fun, it just seemed kind of bland in execution. I got a very definite feeling of [Monsters + Rooms + Treasure]. There were some interesting bits and pieces, but not enough for a full blown 32 page module.



I'd be interested to find out what other people think of it. I do need to take some time to read it more in depth... but the many roles of society that are thrust upon me really limit my time. :smallbiggrin:

Understandable. I found the pregenerated characters irritating; they took up ten pages of the module, were unnamed, ungendered, and oddly had art that did not match what was described (presumably reused). I suppose they were intended to be pulled or cut out, and tailored to the player.

That was one of my main complaints about the module, really, it felt like there was a lot of empty space that could have been used, and a lot of padding (such as repeating the Orc beserker stat block on the next page, but mainly the reprinting of the map sections Hero Quest style).



Better yet, one guy broke open the 4e adventure and we took the pre-gens and played right then and there. It was a blast! I came out with a handful of free swag.

Ah, sounds like it played better than it read, then! Care to share your experiences of playing through the module?

Tengu
2008-06-24, 02:31 PM
And no, the premise behind the world isn't to be a jerk to the players, but that the world is violent and cruel and that stupid actions are punished brutally. I mean, one has only to look at the fate of Gregor Clegane to realize that.


Stupid, or simply having some moral standards? I'd debate that SoFaI is not realistic, but goes on the other side of the scale and is more cynical than real life... but I'm not sure if this is a good place for this.

hamlet
2008-06-24, 02:32 PM
Stupid, or simply having some moral standards? I'd debate that SoFaI is not realistic, but goes on the other side of the scale and is more cynical than real life... but I'm not sure if this is a good place for this.

Have you been paying attention to real life lately?

Tengu
2008-06-24, 02:43 PM
Have you been paying attention to real life lately?

Real life can be ugly, but it can also be beautiful and motivating. Worlds Of Black And Gray Morality like SoFaI ignore the second part. That's not realistic, that's cynical.

Useful links:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackAndGrayMorality

hamlet
2008-06-24, 02:47 PM
Real life can be ugly, but it can also be beautiful and motivating. Worlds Of Black And Gray Morality like SoFaI ignore the second part. That's not realistic, that's cynical.

Useful links:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackAndGrayMorality

Calling ASOIF "black and grey" morality is incorrect, I think. The problem is that you're looking at the world through the viewport of a particularly nasty and bloody war where people are doing their absolute best to be horrible to each other. It's like looking at Vietnam and calling that representative of the morals of western society.

Look at the counterpoint novellas in the Dunk and Egg stories. They are much better representations of the morality of the world, I think.

What you see in the main line of novels is, again, a horrible and bloody war. Actually, if you want to get technical, it's at least two different bloody wars (War of the Five Kings and War of the Three Queens) and is building into at least a third.

Add on top of that the fact that there's plenty of beauty and love in the world. Plenty.

Calling it "black and grey" is intellectually lazy and misses a lot of the point.

Tengu
2008-06-24, 02:57 PM
I am aware that there are reasons why SoFaI is so grimdark. Doesn't change the fact that it's a world where good people die, not because they do something stupid, but because they're good. As if the author was trying to say "what's the point being good".

I actually liked the stories about Dunk and Egg. Maybe I'd buy a book consisting of them. But SoFaI is too grim to be my cup of tea. And that's coming from a guy who likes Andrzej Sapkowski's books, which are rather Black And Gray Morality themselves.

hamlet
2008-06-24, 03:01 PM
Who dies "becuase they are good"? Name one?

Tengu
2008-06-24, 03:03 PM
I don't remember. I take most of my knowledge about these books from spoilered discussions on these forums.

hamlet
2008-06-24, 03:05 PM
I don't remember. I take most of my knowledge about these books from spoilered discussions on these forums.

:smalleek:And you think that's an adequate understanding of what actually is in the books?

You are mistaken, Tengu. The "black and grey morality" label is erroneous or, at very best, superficial.

Morty
2008-06-24, 03:06 PM
Well, right in the first book
Ned Stark dies because he's an honest, straightforward guy and therefore can't survive among the politicians and schemers. Although to be frank he did cross the line between "honest" and "naive" at least once.

Tengu
2008-06-24, 03:10 PM
:smalleek:And you think that's an adequate understanding of what actually is in the books?

You are mistaken, Tengu. The "black and grey morality" label is erroneous or, at very best, superficial.

When the fans themselves go "poor X didn't deserve to die" all the time a new book comes out, I think it's not a long stretch to reach some conclusions, is it?

And if SoFaI doesn't fit the definition of a world of Black and Gray Morality, then what does?

hamlet
2008-06-24, 03:18 PM
Well, right in the first book
Ned Stark dies because he's an honest, straightforward guy and therefore can't survive among the politicians and schemers. Although to be frank he did cross the line between "honest" and "naive" at least once.

Ned Stark dies because he decides to go straight to Cersei with what he knows (which was honorable in a way) without securing some kind of backup in the form of soldiers, after turning away Renly's offer of help (even though it was a little misguided and out of whack), because he trusted Little Finger after being told explicetly not to do so BY LITTLE FINGER HIMSELF, by trusting Varis who did betray him, and by not acting immediately and instead waiting until the next day thus giving Cersei (whom he KNEW was going to act against him, or at least should have known) time to maneuver all her pieces into place.

Really? You ask me, the guy, despite his honor, was being abysmally stupid and willfully ignorant of the character of the people he was dealing with.

hamlet
2008-06-24, 03:21 PM
When the fans themselves go "poor X didn't deserve to die" all the time a new book comes out, I think it's not a long stretch to reach some conclusions, is it?

And if SoFaI doesn't fit the definition of a world of Black and Gray Morality, then what does?

It doesn't fit because applying that label ignores HUGE tracts of text. Entire chapters of it sometimes.

Is it grim? Yes of course.

Is it cynical? You betcha.

Is it "black and grey"? Not a chance.

Tengu
2008-06-24, 03:23 PM
Let me ask you, then.

Is there at least a single case of a morally good character who doesn't live a life horrible even by the book's standards, successfully does something important and significant from time to time and is not dead yet? If so, then I retract my statement, but if no, then I keep it.

hamlet
2008-06-24, 03:44 PM
Let me ask you, then.

Is there at least a single case of a morally good character who doesn't live a life horrible even by the book's standards, successfully does something important and significant from time to time and is not dead yet? If so, then I retract my statement, but if no, then I keep it.

The answer is yes.

But I qualify before I answer thusly:
1) There is nobody in the book whom I'd consider "good" in the fantasy literature meaning of the word. People are realistic and act according to their own interests and the interests of their allies and not according to abstract Moorcockian concepts. Some of those motivations are not yet clear, and some involvements are only now coming into the light and creating huge upsets to what was previously understood, but the general rule still applies that people do not act for some nebulous concept of "good and evil" but "what's best for myself/family/house/lord/love/children/honor/greed?".

2) I assume you want to limit this discussion to the "current time" within the novels themselves and not the time frame of the entire world and its history. Fine, but still, recall you are limiting the options to a time of a horrible, almost "known world" war and thus the results are colored.

My answer:
Ser Barristan Selmy aka Barristan the Bold makes out very well and is, most would agree, a fine, upstanding fellow compared to some of his compatriots. Yes, he does run into hardship, but a character that receives nothing but great and wonderful things is, in a word, boring.

Specifically, he defends the life of his previous lord admirably (Rheagar and Aerys Targaryen) even though they were defeated and slain. For his honorable service (and probably because it would have been far too much trouble to kill him) he is pardoned by the successor, King Robert Baratheon and serves as Lord Commander of the King's Guard for 15 more years until Robert's assasination (at which he was not present). He is cast out of the order in an unprecedented move by the boy king Joeffrey the Mad (my own appelation), but manages to leave in what can only be described as a crowning moment of awesome when he leaves the throne room for the White Tower and there fights off several assasins sent by Joeffrey to slay him and, before departing the city forever, records in The White Book (the history of the King's Guard and all its members) the fact that he was dismissed from service and that he fought off the assasins and then departs for Quarth where he meets with Daenerys Targaryen, the last of her family, and in the course of events, eventually reveals himself to her and swears his service as a member of her Queen's Guard for the remainder of his life and is accepted.

Then, there's always Daenerys herself who, though enduring a number of really cruddy events in the first book and part of the second, rises to greater levels of strengths and, thus far, proves to have escaped the curse of madness that plagued many of her anscestors and is shaping up to be a fine and upstanding ruler the likes of which have not been seen since the first dragon.

I could also point out Jon Snow.

Sam Tarley.

Dolorous Ed for comedy's sake.

Ser Adam Marbrand, though he's unfortunately spend much of the book attached to some of the worst people in it, though he's gotten a better leader now.

Jamie Lannister (though many will argue).

Davos Seaworth, though he has an interlude or two of pure suckitude. He get's better.

I might go on, but this is all off topic.



Is that acceptable?

Tengu
2008-06-24, 03:55 PM
Even realistic people can be good and look for something more than the interest of themselves and their friends/family. Not seeing this is as blind as not seeing how cruel can the world be sometimes. And yeah, a character who always succeeds no matter what is very boring, which is why I said "from time to time" - because seeing someone fail all the time is equally depressing (unless it's played for humour).

Anyway, the examples will do. Maybe I've misjudged SoFaI. Maybe, because I still won't read it - not my cup of tea.

hamlet
2008-06-24, 03:58 PM
Even realistic people can be good and look for something more than the interest of themselves and their friends/family. Not seeing this is as blind as not seeing how cruel can the world be sometimes. And yeah, a character who always succeeds no matter what is very boring, which is why I said "from time to time" - because seeing someone fail all the time is equally depressing (unless it's played for humour).

Anyway, the examples will do. Maybe I've misjudged SoFaI. Maybe, because I still won't read it - not my cup of tea.

And I'm not saying you have to in order to comment.

I'm just saying that the "black and grey" junk is pretty much that: junk.

Dang fine series, though, and is definately starting in places to take a more positive turn.

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2008-06-24, 05:31 PM
Ah, sounds like it played better than it read, then! Care to share your experiences of playing through the module?

I don't know if I'm the best judge, as I'm more an enthusiast of the hobby rather than a faithful of any edition or genre. I had a blast because I was with a group of people who like to RP and wanted to play a game. D&D 4e did not hinder that aspect in any way.

However, I find a lot about 4e reads rather dry, but in play it works well. It's not idiot-proof, either. Being stupid can still get you killed as our Wizard discovered.

Matthew
2008-06-25, 06:05 AM
I don't know if I'm the best judge, as I'm more an enthusiast of the hobby rather than a faithful of any edition or genre. I had a blast because I was with a group of people who like to RP and wanted to play a game. D&D 4e did not hinder that aspect in any way.

Right you are. Attitude is indeed much more important than rules in any fun RPG experience.



However, I find a lot about 4e reads rather dry, but in play it works well. It's not idiot-proof, either. Being stupid can still get you killed as our Wizard discovered.

Yes, that seems to be the case. People are apparently selling these free modules on Ebay and the D&D 4e one is going for $30+. What a world, still it is tempting...