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AslanCross
2008-06-23, 06:44 AM
Okay, although I've been DMing for a year, I am still confused with the rules regarding treasure.

At first I was just following the recommended WBL in the DMG. Then I started rolling random treasure (especially for scrolls and other consumable magic items), then I adopted MIC's alternative method (which is supposedly closer to WBL). The DMG and Monster Manual agree for the most part on the treasure monsters carry (Coins/Goods/Items), but almost none of the monsters carry magic items (except for a few Outsiders). In any case, my most pertinent questions are:

1. How is treasure affected by the items (magic or mundane) carried by monsters? The impression I get is that the general monster doesn't really carry anything worth noting.
My campaign is full of humanoid enemies (with class levels), so many of them have magic items and armor. Do these get dropped as loot too, and do they count toward determining if the players are getting recommended WBL?

The way I do it is that the stuff that the monsters carry magically transforms into something that will actually meet the recommended treasure value for the encounter. Sounds silly, but if the PCs pick up every +1 longsword they pick up and sell them, they only get half the value back.

2. How do you do it, regardless of the rules?

KillianHawkeye
2008-06-23, 07:24 AM
2. Well it's my first time DMing. I am running Red Hand of Doom (awesome module btw), with a few of my own things mixed in for spice, and I pretty much give whatever gear is listed or whatever treasure is indicated. (Red Hand of Doom is rather well written, and I've had no problems. I'm not sure how close my players are to WBL, but Red Hand of Doom is a self-proclaimed "high treasure" adventure, so I decided not to worry about it.)

Anyway, if I decide to alter or place a specific treasure item, I do so beforehand in case it is in the possession of an NPC, so that the NPC can benefit from the different item (assuming they can benefit from it, but I try not to give them such arbitrary items that they make no sense to have). So far my players have donated several pieces of unneeded +1 equipment to the local military in preparation for the Red Hand's imminent invasion, keeping only the best stuff for themselves.

I hope that helps! :smallbiggrin:

Tehnar
2008-06-23, 09:14 AM
1. Magic items are a part of the treasure given out, regardless that they are sold for half price. (It actually comes even if you have a crafter in your group, sell stuff you dont want for half price, and make stuff you want for half price (and xp). As for monsters carrying magic items, unless they are non intelligent, or animals or the like, most monster can and should use the magic items you rolled for them.

2. I use the following few guidelines:
-if a monster is a random encounter, most of its coins and goods (but not items) are back in its lair
- if there is a boss with minions and captains, I roll magic items only for the boss and his captains, and just use the average monetary treasure of the minions. If the minions are humanoids, I sometimes equip them with better weapons (ie xbows instead of slings) or some alchemical supplies.
-keep track of your parties wealth
- and if you dont like what you rolled, roll again or exchange item for one with a simmilar value
- dont worry about having every encounter give treasuer by the WBL, if you feel the party is not getting enough treasure, give them bigger quest rewards, or just increase the next encounter's treasure

Telonius
2008-06-23, 12:44 PM
Treasure values are a perennial problem. In every game I've played, there's no such thing as "dropping" as loot. If it's on the enemy's gear list, and you kill the enemy, it's all sitting there. Whether or not the players think it's worthwhile to fill up their bags of holding with 1500 lb of rusty ogre armor is up to them.

Check with your players periodically to see the net worth of their gear. If it's vastly underneath the WBL guidelines, have the next group of mooks have gems in their pockets. If it's vastly over, send them up against monsters that have no pockets - a Dire Wolf is not going to have anything on it, no matter how many babies it's eaten.

AslanCross
2008-06-24, 06:47 AM
Hmm, I guess I will have to reroll a bunch of treasure lists. A player inventory check is also in order. They haven't...really done ANYTHING with the loot they've picked up, aside from the potions and scrolls.

Gorbash
2008-06-24, 06:53 AM
2. Well it's my first time DMing. I am running Red Hand of Doom (awesome module btw), with a few of my own things mixed in for spice, and I pretty much give whatever gear is listed or whatever treasure is indicated. (Red Hand of Doom is rather well written, and I've had no problems. I'm not sure how close my players are to WBL, but Red Hand of Doom is a self-proclaimed "high treasure" adventure, so I decided not to worry about it.)

RHoD is not a good example of adequate WBL, since it gives ridiculous amounts of treasure. I'm currently playing it (finishing actually, we're in the Fane), and the 4 of us are drowning in gold. We don't even know what to do with it. RHoD gives at least 30% (if not even 50%) more gold that it's supposed to at that level. But RHoD has a tight time scheldue and you don't really have the time to craft items, but really some of the treasure is so over the top (Rod of Life, for example), and almost no items for wizards...

AslanCross
2008-06-24, 06:58 AM
... and almost no items for wizards...

I've been experiencing the opposite in my campaign. Of course, it isn't RHoD, but the problem is that the DMG's random minor magic item chart heavily favors arcane scrolls over anything else. All of my frontliner players need armor and weapon upgrades. >_o

Gorbash
2008-06-24, 07:08 AM
Problem is, even if there are arcane scrolls as treasure, it's rarerly a good spell... Even if it is, I probably have it already, so at best it'll be used as a consumable... I'd like to get my hands on someone's spellbook, better chance of getting something good out of it...

DigoDragon
2008-06-24, 07:27 AM
a Dire Wolf is not going to have anything on it, no matter how many babies it's eaten.

The image of a Dire Wolf wearing a "Cape of the Montebank", teleporting into nurseries each night to feed now comes to mind. :smalleek: I'm also reminded of Penny Arcade's (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/12/6/) take on monster treasure.

So yeah... adjust treasure accordingly to the situation.:smallsmile: