My top 10 Magnificent Bastards.

[Evil DM Mark3]

For those of you not aware: (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard)

BTW I do not doubt that there are other worthy candidates, however these are the ones I am personally familiar with. Please give your own ideas of worthy MBs.

10
Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes. Why so low? Well his magnificence is a little low, (bastardly wise he is the crime lord of Victorian England, enough said) but the real reason is that he was invented as a way to kill off a character. He lacks that ongoing nemesis feel that a good MB should have, although the story in which we do first meet him has a very nice move and counter move feel to it.

9
Klaus Wulfenbach, Girl Genius. Again, why so low? This man has brought peace and stability (although not happiness or sanity please note) to a Europe overrun with mad scientists. Why so low? One feels that a decent MB should enjoy himself and to be quite fair, Klaus doesn't.

8
Mr. Linderman, Heroes. Utterly cool under fire, "now you don't get any pie", and utterly bastardly. The things that drag him down? His death looked a touch easy, to be fair, and whilst he was a MB he didn't think he was. Almost everyone else on this list knows they are an utter bastard and embraces it. Well intentioned extremists are too blinded by their principles to ever reach the true heights of the art.

7
Asmodeus, DnD. I feel that he might lack some of the depth that he could have been given, he is just that little too perfect and in control. Nevertheless you have to admire old fang-features, especially when we consider the Reckoning.

6
The Joker, Batman. Not in all his incarnations, and that drags him down a bit, but at times, when the writer gives him the magnificence and bastardry he deserves, he can go toe to toe with anyone else on this list. The ease with which he escapes Archam is one of his more stylish points. That is it I suppose, the Joker has real smarts and real STYLE.

5
Edmund Blackadder, Blackadder 2 onwards. A low, dastardly, cowardly, scheming bastard to the core it is the ease and utter style with which he ducks and dives around almost everything that comes his way (WWI proved a shade too large to evade, try as he did) and does quite well for himself. Not even hurt much by the fact that he is supposed to be the protagonist.

4
PJ Maybe, Judge Dredd. OK, let us look at the facts shall we? The most talented serial killer in Mega city one's history, first killed at age 12, a random couple as a test, went undetected for a while before getting caught By the age of 18 he had killed 21 people. He has escaped and faked his own death successfully a few times now and is currently still at large. One destroyed a city block containing 20,000 people to get at one of his childhood tormentors.

3
Aizen Sousuke, Bleach. A real master of style this one. If it where not for the fact that he was so slick and calm he would not qualify as magnificent, but he is and does. I placed him a lower than the two above him partially due to his reliance in early appearances on a tool (his soulslayer), rather than purely his own dastardliness, but mostly because, compared to them despite having similar motives he is still operating on a far smaller scale. (Yes, you heard that right.)

2
The Master, Doctor Who. If you have to have this explained to you you just don't get it. All I will say is this: "You are utterly evil!" "Thank you."

1Davros, Doctor Who. I tried to limit myself to one per verse but I could not leave him out. For those who don't know this man is the guy who thought "what does the universe need? I know! A race of onmicydal mutant green blobs in peperpots of death." Invented the Daleks. Assisted in the genocyde of his own people when they tried to stop him. Once stated he would gladly relase a virus that would destroy all life so that he could be the person who had released the virus that would wipe out all life. And all this whilst being an utter cripple. Why is he better than the Master? Simply put the Master is a Time Lord. Davros is an utter cripple. And yet he is just as much a MB as the Master, if not more so. He is not a MB despite having only one working limb, if anything he is more of a MB because he has only one working limb.

[Oregano]

I know it's not really one candidate but there was a really good magnificient bastard plot in the 6th Hornblower movie, Mutiny, well I thought it was a good plot. Actually Horatio Hornblower's a Magnificient Bastard, I think, especially in the spanish fort in Retribution. I know these films are based on books by the way but I'm not familiar with them.

Kain, The Elder God and Moebius(from the Legacy of Kain games) could dount although I'm not too sure, they all use Xanatos Gambits, in fact there may even be a Xanatos Roulette I'm not aware of.

Lionel Luthor, from Smallville, where the term originated IIRC, well on a messageboard as a way to describe him.

[Helanna]

Raistlin Majere may be the definition of this trope, as is proved repeatedly:
The first and most obvious being that he killed ofthe entire pantheon of Krynn and ascended to godhood. If that doesn't qualify as "Magnificent" I don't know what does. And as for the "bastard" part . . . well, pretty much every time he speaks counts, but the worst is probably the time(s) he betrays Caramon.


Also, both L and Light from Death Note. This . . . is pretty obvious.

[Tengu]

What about Great Admiral Thrawn, probably the most brilliant and most motivating military leader in the Star Wars 'verse, if not all science fiction combined?

[Freshmeat]

Needs more Light, L (arguably), Lelouch, Johann Liebert (from Monster), Count of Monte Cristo, Benjamin Linus (!), Keyser Söze (!), Lord Vetinari, Doctor Doom, Arcturus Mengsk, Kane, Iago, Xanatos... etc.
I disagree with most people on the current list, although that's of course a matter of personal opinion.

The Joker is too random and inconsistent, and he's been put in Arkham Asylum too many times to count. Ra's Al Ghul might apply for the spot though, if we're talking Batmanverse.

Edmund Blackadder is good at manipulating... childish kings and queens and incompetent servants. Not too big of an accomplishment, really. He's got charm though. I'll give you that.

Linderman died before he could pull off any sort of magnificent bastardliness. I had my hopes for him, but ultimately he died too soon. The shadowy council of mysterious bad guys/extremists in Heroes are notoriously bad at keeping control of any given situation as well.

Davros - admittedly, I don't know much about Doctor Who but I do recall that scene where he got killed (although suvived later on by virtue of a retcon) by his own Daleks. He also got tricked into blowing up the Dalek homeworld in a really obvious scheme by the Doctor.
Both are a case of serious unsmoothness and should knock him down a few spots if not completely off the list.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Davros - admittedly, I don't know much about Doctor Who but I do recall that scene where he got killed (although suvived later on by virtue of a retcon) by his own Daleks. He also got tricked into blowing up the Dalek homeworld in a really obvious scheme by the Doctor.
Both are a case of serious unsmoothness and should knock him down a few spots if not completely off the list.

In the first case he made an error of judgement, in the second he was up against the most cunning of all the doctors' biggest Xanto's roulette, in his other appearances however more than make up for these blips and remember these are the moments at which he looses, they have to be at least a little damaging for him, because he looses. At the end of the day, Davros is just stone cold evil and outdoes his creations with ease and makes other villains look pathetic, all without leaving his chair. Also getting betrayed by his Daleks is nothing compared to the earlier awesomeness of the "to hold in my hand" speach and the utter evil of his wiping out of the Kaled (his own) race.

This is my list, yours may vary.

Oh and on Vetinari, I left him out becuase, at the end of the day, he is not really a bastard. Pargmatic yes, bastard, I don't think so. More kickass assassin chessmaster than MB.

[H. Zee]

After the last few OotS strips, I'm tempted to say the Oracle.

But yeah... Lord Vetinari needs to be up there. As does Azula. Though I totaly agree with the Master being one, purely on the basis of his double-thumbs-up as he gasses the government.

[loopy]

Prince Kheldar aka "Silk" - Wealthiest man in the world, spy, deadpan snarker. Some entire countries require his trade empire to keep the economy moving.

Althalus - Went back in time to get a wolf-eared cloak he had left during a botched escape several millennia ago. Manages to save the world in the process, but his main reason for the time travel was to get the cloak.

(Yeah, I read too much David Eddings)

[Pronounceable]

Quoting sig: "Where the hell is Lord Vetinari?"

Kreia also needs a place on top10.

[bibliophile]

Where is Baron Vladimir Harkonnen?

[The Rose Dragon]

I can't argue with anyone on this, except for one.

Keyser Söze needs to be the first in any MB list, ever. Why? Unless you don't know already, I don't want to ruin it for you. Just watch the Usual Suspects.

[valadil]

I love Magnificent Bastard characters and have 3 to add.

Scorpius from Farscape
Nakago from Fushigi Yuugi
and Ben Linus from Lost

[chiasaur11]

I agree with the Vetinari guys. Moriarty didn't have to deal with Cthuloid monstrosities, Death, land wars in the sorta middle east, or bureauracracy. Plus, Vetinari runs a whole city, and isn't disposed of or defeated. The rest of the list tends to end up biting it. More than once, even. Vetinari tends to win.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Or he loses on purpose solely to mock the entire Klatchian Empire by knowing one more fact than they do.
Or where he figures out who was trying to kill him in Feet Of Clay before the Watch did. And they have a werewolf!
Or all those times where he acts as a Puppetmaster and makes everyone else do the work for him while he sits up there in his office doing . . . Patricianly stuff.
Or how about that under his rule he's reinvigorated the entire city, made Ankh-Morpork pretty much the centre of the whole Disc and is training a lot of possible replacements just in case of death. And if you can't name three you need to read those books again.

I'd also like to nominate Petyr Littlefinger as he's managed to start a civil war, possibly have a hand in murdering Robert, Eddard and Joffrey, definitely managed to arrange things so he could control the Eyrie and is training Sansa as his replacement. What else? Hmmm, he's in control (or soon will be) of about one - third of The Seven Kingdoms and has probably had a hand in most plots since (and before) the books began.

[Destro_Yersul]

Where is Baron Vladimir Harkonnen?

Yes indeed. We need him, and also Tzeentch.

Tzeentch is the God of Magnificent Bastards. Literally.

[Premsyl]

Fontaine from Bioshock. "Oh me darlin Moira, me wee baby Patrick!" and then "You're busto, kid." What a jerk.

[Kane]

*Glares*

Kane, from the C&C verse. Not only does he have an entire theological hegemony, (That happens to be about two thirds to five fifths of the world) worshiping him as a messiah/god (Messiah of himself. I'm pretty sure.), (bastard, IMO), but he is inordinately fond of Xanatos Roulettes. EVERYTHING is always going according to his plan. Scrin arriving. Getting Ion Cannon'd by GDI. Getting Ion Cannon'd again by GDI. Getting shot, at one point, and, well, you get the idea.

For me, one of the high points of C&C 3 was going to be seeing him giong "WTF! WTF! WTF!" when the scrin came, only for the bastard to have disappeared prior to it. Plus he also started the third Tiberium War JUST for his temple to get Ion Cannon'd again and set off the liquid Tiberium deposit and.... Yah.

Quite frankly, I'd like to see him and Tzeentch go at it. Kane Vs. the god of Xanatos Roulettes...


And if I lost you when I started mentioning Xanatos Roulettes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosRoulette?from=Main.TheXanatosRoulette), trust me. Kane is the Chessmaster (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChessmaster). He's allowed to pull it off.

[Mr. Scaly]

Where in the name of the Holy Spork of Vs Threads is Darth Sidious???

[kpenguin]

What happened to Adrian Veidt man? I mean...

(WATCHMEN SPOILERS)
Your #8, Linderman, has his main evil plot as to destroy New York and unite the world in doing so. Its obviously an homage to Veidt's plot to destroy New York and unite the world in doing so. However, Veidt does it so much more magnificently and bastardly. Reasons why:

1) While Linderman relied on making sure that events predetermined occurred, Veidt actively pursued his plan, not leaving it up to the fickle hand of fate.
2) If Linderman had succeeded, there would have been plenty of people who would have known within the Company. Veidt made sure to kill off everyone who was involved in the plan before the plan was enacted except for himself.
3) Veidt manipulated all the heroes, except Rorschach, to go along with his plan. This included a nigh omnipotent and omniscient Dr. Manhatten. Linderman convinced only a single hero,Nathan, and for only a short amount of time.
4) Veidt's plan succeeded in uniting the world and bringing about utopia, while Linderman's plan brought only America under facist rule or failed to be completed entirely.

[Solo]

"Do it?"

Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting it's outcome?


I did it thirty-five minutes ago.


http://graphics.x10.com/images_ahp/101x150_clockmidnight.jpg

[Silver2195]

Needs moar Azula. The way she took over Ba Sing Se was pure awesome.

[ArmorArmadillo]

I'd debate Aizen's MB status.

I mean, to me, part of being a magnificent bastard is that people know you're evil and the villain and can't do anything about it because you are so badass and clever.

Aizen's biggest trick ultimately comes from the fact that nobody had any reason to suspect him of anything, so he got an incredibly wide berth.


Also, I second needing Light and Adrian Viedt

[Evil DM Mark3]

Thank you all for you comments, if you do feel as strongly as some of you seem to, why not write your own lists?:smalltongue:

As I said, this is mine.

@ArmorArmadillo:I disagree. One MB that is on the TV tropes list (in a series I have not watched but intend to when I can find it) is Francis Urquhart from House of Cards. This man is known to be who he really is by the audience alone, to everyone else he is no worse than any other politician.

[Pronounceable]

Sure, why not?

10. Raistlin (original two trilogies only)
9. Pontius Glaw (Eisenhorn Omnibus)
8. The Emperor (RotJ ONLY)
7. Ra's Al Ghul (Batman)
6. Sarevok (Baldur's Gate)
5. Kaiser Söze (Usual Suspects)
4. Vladimir Harkonnen (Dune, which is a font of magnificence)
3. Havelock Vetinary (Discworld)
2. Kreia (Kotor 2)
1. God Emperor Leto II (Dune)


Though I think I should read up on that Thrawn guy.

[Revlid]

Raistlin Majere may be the definition of this trope, as is proved repeatedly:
The first and most obvious being that he killed ofthe entire pantheon of Krynn and ascended to godhood. If that doesn't qualify as "Magnificent" I don't know what does. And as for the "bastard" part . . . well, pretty much every time he speaks counts, but the worst is probably the time(s) he betrays Caramon.

Nah. Ultimately, Raistlin failed in his goal, and paid the price. A true magnificent bastard wouldn't, or would at least make his death mean bad things for his enemies.

[Paragon Badger]

Kain, The Elder God and Moebius(from the Legacy of Kain games) could dount although I'm not too sure, they all use Xanatos Gambits, in fact there may even be a Xanatos Roulette I'm not aware of.

Moebius was indeed full of awesome. Particularly in Soul Reaver 2.

...And...nobody has said Rommel? :smallwink:

[ArmorArmadillo]

Alright, drumroll!
10. Odysseus (The Iliad and Odyssey)
The original bastard, and a bastard indeed. But, no matter how much I may hate the man, there was something magnificent about his truly epic cleverness. Bastard on, Odysseus, bastard on.

9. Gregory House (House, M.D.)
You may not like him, you may hate him, but no matter what he does you have to respect him. That's pretty magnificent.

8. Khyron (Macross/Robotech)
From an admiral in an epic fleet to the leader of a ragtag group, Khyron fought with a tenacity of spirit and guile that made his micronian foes cringe to the bitter end.

7. Xykon (Order of the Stick)
The finely tuned sledgehammer. Everyone thinks he's so stupid and useless because he's a sorcerer, or that they're tricking the simple geezer with some brilliant elaborate Plan...but he knows what you're doing, he knows what you're thinking, and he knows exactly who is in control. That, of course, is him.

6. The Master (Dr. Who)
It's not that hard to mess with the Doctor and Captain Jack, but the Master does it with style to spare.

5. Captain Jack Sparrow (Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl)
"You forgot one very important thing, mate: I'm Captain Jack Sparrow!"
With his suntouched swagger, apparent clumsiness, and poverty ridden patheticness, you don't realize he's playing you until he's won and you've lost.

4. V (V for Vendetta)
The Villain plays his world like a fiddle, and makes no secret of it. He has the mark of the MB: He earns your respect as he's messing up your world.

3. Dante (Fullmetal Alchemist)
From the very first time you see her, you know there's something wrong with this sweet old lady, something you can't exactly. It's only in the end do you realize that every event, every tragedy, every sin is part of her massively complex personal symphony; and even when people know who she is and what she's doing, they're still obligated by her massive sway to fulfill her aims.

2. Hunter Rose (Grendel)
The incarnation of evil, who rules the criminal underworld of the entire East Coast because he felt it an interesting game. His flair for the dramatic and keen sense of plotting and manipulation make his duel with Ardent a magnificent tale.

1. Light Yagami (Death Note)
Everything he does just screams magnificent bastard. He spends most of Death Note living in close range to his rival, who knows that he is Kira, and through every devious plan and machination he always gets away. Every time it seems like he should lose, he pulls out a trick or crosses a new line that makes him unbeatable.
Also, unlike so many MB wannabes, his victories don't count on the obliviousness or mistakes of his foes, his enemies run on all cylinders and he still wins.

[Oslecamo]

Alright, drumroll!
10. Odysseus (The Iliad and Odyssey)
The original bastard, and a bastard indeed. But, no matter how much I may hate the man, there was something magnificent about his truly epic cleverness. Bastard on, Odysseus, bastard on.


Can you really claim that someone whose greatest desire is simply to return to his wife and son a bastard? He was the only character in the whole greek side who didn't want to join the war. Ok, he cheats a lot of people and sacrifices his own crew, but still, it's all just to return to his beloved family.

Honorable mention:Horachimary from Naruto. If possible, he's too evil. In the bad sense, since he's just trying to do too many evil things at once.
-Kidnaping/killing/corrupting/"studying" little children
-Horrible experiments with human beings.
-Trying to conquer the world
-Become imortal and achieve ultimate power.
-Sacrifice minions left and right for anything and everything.
-Drug addict.
-Destroy his own birth place.
-Create his own army of mutant ninjas.

What evil is he don't trying to do?:smalltongue:

The end result is that he fails in most of his objectives because he's trying to do so much at the same time. Should he have focused on only two or three at once, he would have been so much effective.

[Xuincherguixe]

That's an interesting spelling.

Orochimaru is considered a Smug Snake (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SmugSnake).

While he's certainly evil, most of his schemes fail.

[EvilElitest]

once upon a time, spike was a Magnificent Bastard. Once. And no longer
from
EE

[Querzis]

Nah. Ultimately, Raistlin failed in his goal, and paid the price. A true magnificent bastard wouldn't, or would at least make his death mean bad things for his enemies.

Have we been reading the same books? Raistlin achieved his goals, all his goals. He went from a frail and sick human to an ultimate being who destroyed the gods and the world. When he discover what await him when he destroyed everything, thanks to Caramon, he chose an eternity of suffering instead of an eternity of nothingness. How could that be anything else then magnificient??? Raistlin is definitly the ultimate MB ever as far as I'm concerned. Beside, he destroyed all the demons in the goddess army and you dont call this a bad thing for his enemies?

[Mr. Scaly]

Ah, a good old list. It's fashionable these days it seems. Just keep in mind that everyone on this list is interchangeable with everyone else depending on what mood I'm in.

10) Arcturus Mengsk. (Starcraft)

The man who orchestrated the fall of an entire nation then placed himself at its head, who took on all comers, won most of the time and bounced right back every time he was beaten. He was ousted, betrayed, and left to die on a desolate rock...and still came out the head of an empire. Unfortunately, at times it seems he's the one being played instead of doing the playing which hurts the Magnificent part of his status.

9) Ambassador Laquatus. (Magic: The Gathering)

The merfolk ambassador whose favourite solutions to a problem are murder and screwing with people's minds. Master politician, he pretends to be too civilised to fight but openly enjoys torture, murder and all that stuff. His goal is to possess the Mirari, an object of godlike power that would give him enormous power. Unfortunately for him he lives in a world where Magnificent bastards live on every street and most are even better than him.

8) Kitiara Uth Matar. (Dragonlance)

Greedy, ambitious, smart as Hell, unashamed, willing to do anything to conquer the world and a never look back attitude. A brilliant commander and skilled leader, who's perfectly willing to suck up to superior commanders until she has the strength to break their backs. A classic example is when the Army of Whitestone drove her forces clear across Abanasinia and assembled all in one group at Kalaman...right where she planned to destroy them all. So awesome she can even command Lord Soth himself.

7) Yevon. (FFX)

It's an organised religion that, for a thousand years, has kept control by willingly sacrificing priests to the monstrous embodiment of destruction. Who knows how many have been killed in this way? Villages destroyed, peoples flattened, thousands and thousands dead, all to keep order. They give people an illusion of hope through pointless sacrifice and refuse to entertain thoughts of changing it because the cycle of death keeps them in power. is number eight because they actually think they're still the good guys throughout all of this.

6) Asmodeus. (DnD)

Perhaps it's obvious, but when you take an Archdevil who invented punishment you have to expect him to be a Magnificent bastard. When you set every other Archdevil out there against him and he comes out on top with his power base stronger than ever after mass violence and upheaval that nearly wreck the state of things, then learn that he organised the entire confrontation just so he could open up a space for his daughter...you get to feeling that he deserves his spot on top of the heap.

5) Light Yagami. (Deathnote)

What I especially like about Light is his dual nature. On the surface he's a mild mannered highschool student, then a determined, competent inspector. Beneath it all he's a power hungry megalomaniac out to kill...everyone who disagrees with him. He's like Jekyll and Hyde with the power to kill.

4) Raistlin Majere. (Dragonlance)

Kitiara's half brother, it would make sense that he inherited her sense of ambition and greed. For most of his life he was weak, reviled, tormented and hurt, which fuelled the rest when he gained the power to kill gods. Yes. Kill Gods. ALL the gods. In the Legends trilogy he masterminds things so perfectly that even though he is caught by time and rushed forward to his death he plows clear through and survives.

3) Grand Admiral Thrawn. (Star Wars)

Everything in the galaxy dances to the puppet strings of this one man. And if they don't, he can make people believe they do. He has out fought Jedi masters, alien pirates, Republic generals with decades of experience, and every other Grand Admiral in the imperial fleet. Cool and calm, never panicking or acting rashly, he studies art for a species' psychological weakpoints and the strikes hard with devastating force. Even his one failure, where understanding a species' art gave him no insight to their character, ended up with him destroying their world. Even Darth Sidious might almost have liked Thrawn.

2) Darth Sidious. (Star Wars)

This is the man who started out as an anonymous senator and worked his way up to becoming Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Republic. Then he organised an entire war so he'd have the excuse to turn it into an empire. Semi-omniscient, he could see everything coming and just wouldn't die. And right up until midway through the Empire's history he had the support of the other politicians...he was always seen as oneof the 'good guys.'

1) The Major. (Hellsing)

I cannot find words to describe the sheer awesome. Check out the clip instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INotAKQV2tk

[Oslecamo]

That's an interesting spelling.

Orochimaru is considered a Smug Snake (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SmugSnake).

While he's certainly evil, most of his schemes fail.

Like it says in the tvtropes pages, it's arguable. Most of his schemes may fail, but not all of them. He still manages to do a lot of evil:

-Kill both the sand and leaf Hokages, plus god knows how much other people.
-Completely mess up Sasuke's mind.
-Destroy the life of god knows how much people he corrupted and died working for him.
-Unlike most other Smug Snakes, orochimaru doesn't has any kind of protection but himself and his loyal minion Kabuto. He made a lot of enemies, and managed to keep his evil activities for a very long period of time. He only went down when literally the rest of the world ganked up on him, and the manga hints that he may still come back.

Orochimaru may fail a lot, but his failures still leave behind a lot of blood, and the bastard just refuses to die thanks to his own skills. A smug snake will fail miserably, and will have an adamantium plot shield wich will protect his ass. Orochimaru definetely doesn't has a plot shield.

[horngeek]

Grand Admiral Thrawn was admitted to being a Grand Admiral, being and alien, when the Galactic Empire was EXTREMELY speciesist.

That just shows how awesome he is if he is able to get around prejudice like that.

[ArmorArmadillo]

Like it says in the tvtropes pages, it's arguable. Most of his schemes may fail, but not all of them. He still manages to do a lot of evil:

-Kill both the sand and leaf Hokages, plus god knows how much other people.
-Completely mess up Sasuke's mind.
-Destroy the life of god knows how much people he corrupted and died working for him.
-Unlike most other Smug Snakes, orochimaru doesn't has any kind of protection but himself and his loyal minion Kabuto. He made a lot of enemies, and managed to keep his evil activities for a very long period of time. He only went down when literally the rest of the world ganked up on him, and the manga hints that he may still come back.

Orochimaru may fail a lot, but his failures still leave behind a lot of blood, and the bastard just refuses to die thanks to his own skills. A smug snake will fail miserably, and will have an adamantium plot shield wich will protect his ass. Orochimaru definetely doesn't has a plot shield.
Number one, Tag Spoilers.

Number two, Orochimaru's plans aren't clever enough to really qualify him for MB status.

His survival has more to do with having the brute force that makes him into a nigh invincible monster, and Kabuto counts for a LOT minion-wise. (He also has the entire Sound Village, such as the Sound Four and Kimimaru)

What marks a MB is that his plans are so entrapping and clever that afterwards the heroes have no choice but to say "Wow, that magnificent bastard!"

Orochimaru comes close during the Chunin exam arc, when he plays the Sand village, but his cleverness sort of drops in terms of his headlong charge against the 3rd Hokage.
Past that, he's all smug snake; take the Tsunade arc, a MB would have known she wouldn't heal him and have been prepared for it.
Moreover, there are key points where Orochimaru fails to control Kabuto, such as his attempted assassination of Sasuke.

In short, Orochimaru is wicked evil, but he's too much of an brute-force monster to be a MB.

[AslanCross]

Admittedly my exposure to characters of this sort is pretty limited. However, Lelouch Lamperouge/Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero from Code Geass deserves a spot somewhere.

He began as a disenfranchised prince-in-hiding within nothing more than a grudge. A year later, he's a serious threat to the balance of power across the entire planet.

List of accomplishments:
-Rescuing his best friend from public execution by interrupting the execution parade with a fake poison gas canister. The ruse allowed him to get close enough to use his geass on the Britannian commander, who ordered his men to let the prisoner go.
-Assassinated two governor generals--one by causing the building his forces were trapped in to fall on top of the general's land battleship and using the tube-shaped ruins to escape from a surrounded and indefensible position.
-Despite being a totally useless robot pilot, he's turned a couple of battles around.
-Ruined almost all of the capital's mecha army by causing the tiered city substructure to eject its parts, collapsing the whole thing.
-Gained control of a secret intelligence team that had been shadowing him.
-Sank an entire Britannian Navy battle group by detonating a methane deposit underneath them with little more than a map, a radio, and a submarine with six torpedoes.
-In order to escape from Japan, he made a show of surrendering, brought his followers to a single area and had them all wear Zero costumes, throwing the Britannians, who were ready to pounce, into confusion.
-Escaped from Japan to cause the following events in China while everyone believed he was still in school in Japan.
-While under siege in a rock-and-a-hard-place situation, he was able to cause a revolution in China against the reigning oligarchy by simply broadcasting a conversation he had with them.
-Regained a powerful ally (China) after losing them (thanks to his kidnapping of their child empress during her wedding with a Britannian prince.


Of course, he's too damn proud and often puts himself in situations where he has no contingencies.

[Oslecamo]

Number one, Tag Spoilers.

Number two, Orochimaru's plans aren't clever enough to really qualify him for MB status.

His survival has more to do with having the brute force that makes him into a nigh invincible monster, and Kabuto counts for a LOT minion-wise. (He also has the entire Sound Village, such as the Sound Four and Kimimaru)

What marks a MB is that his plans are so entrapping and clever that afterwards the heroes have no choice but to say "Wow, that magnificent bastard!"

Orochimaru comes close during the Chunin exam arc, when he plays the Sand village, but his cleverness sort of drops in terms of his headlong charge against the 3rd Hokage.
Past that, he's all smug snake; take the Tsunade arc, a MB would have known she wouldn't heal him and have been prepared for it.
Moreover, there are key points where Orochimaru fails to control Kabuto, such as his attempted assassination of Sasuke.

In short, Orochimaru is wicked evil, but he's too much of an brute-force monster to be a MB.

Yes, I agree that the 3rd Hokage headlong charge was really dumb, but from what I remember, it was Orochimaru who created the sound village on the first place, just to put the plan in motion.


He also managed to perfectly impersonate the sand Hokage, meaning that for some time he controled 2 villages trough a combination of power and deception.

Hoever, it's not his fault that the Leaf village has a limitless supply of ABNU cannon fodder elite troops that pretty much grumped up his troops during the attack, wich combined that the 3rd Hokage pulls out the super ex-macinha ninjutsu that defeated Orochimaru's uber zombies, condmemned his attack to a failure.

Anyway, Orochimaru may have a lot of powerfull minions, but each and every of Orochimaru's minions were handpicked and trained/mutated by himself, and they all served him well, showing just how a manipulative bastard he can be when he wants to.

So, we have a men who created a ninja village by himself, gained control of another whitout anyone noticing and almost managed to wipe out the arguably strongest ninja village out there. He's not just powerfull. He's also wicked smart.


So, yes after the exam arc he may have entered a depression state fuled by the curse on his arms dealing excruciating pain day and night, but before that he really was a MB. Had an army of powerfull minions created by himself, gained control of a ninja village in complete secrecy, actually founded his own ninja village, and desecrated his ancient masters to create two mighty killing machines that could only be stoped because the 3rd Hokage pulled out his plot weapon.

[ArmorArmadillo]

Yes, I agree that the 3rd Hokage headlong charge was really dumb, but from what I remember, it was Orochimaru who created the sound village on the first place, just to put the plan in motion.


He also managed to perfectly impersonate the sand Hokage, meaning that for some time he controled 2 villages trough a combination of power and deception.

Hoever, it's not his fault that the Leaf village has a limitless supply of ABNU cannon fodder elite troops that pretty much grumped up his troops during the attack, wich combined that the 3rd Hokage pulls out the super ex-macinha ninjutsu that defeated Orochimaru's uber zombies, condmemned his attack to a failure.

Anyway, Orochimaru may have a lot of powerfull minions, but each and every of Orochimaru's minions were handpicked and trained/mutated by himself, and they all served him well, showing just how a manipulative bastard he can be when he wants to.

So, we have a men who created a ninja village by himself, gained control of another whitout anyone noticing and almost managed to wipe out the arguably strongest ninja village out there. He's not just powerfull. He's also wicked smart.


So, yes after the exam arc he may have entered a depression state fuled by the curse on his arms dealing excruciating pain day and night, but before that he really was a MB. Had an army of powerfull minions created by himself, gained control of a ninja village in complete secrecy, actually founded his own ninja village, and desecrated his ancient masters to create two mighty killing machines that could only be stoped because the 3rd Hokage pulled out his plot weapon.


Being strong and accomplishing stuff doesn't make you a magnificent bastard. It's about maintaining your cleverness to such an extreme that you command respect.

Orochimaru, past the Chunin Exam arc, just doesn't do that, he just has insane strength and near invincibility that he throws headlong at stuff. As Yamato commented on the battle between him and Naruto during Shippuden "This isn't a battle between ninjas; it's a battle between monsters"

[EvilElitest]

Snake dude is too creepy to be a MB. A MB is so openly evil, but you like him. Your rooting for him almost. He is in fact, really cool
from
EE

[TheThan]

I can’t believe no one has mentioned Alfred Bester, from Babylon 5 fame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Bester_%28Babylon_5%29

The best magnificent bastards are those that can really prompt emotion from the audience. Such is the case with Bester. From his introduction, you hate him and want him to get what he deserves, yet you can’t wait to see what dastardly scheme he has up his sleeves this episode. The character draws you in, lets you forget that “its just a TV show”. This is truly magnificent in its own right, but what makes Bester so magnificent?

Well, he works for the most sinister agency in earth controlled space. Bester is a powerful telepath, who cares little for the law. He routinely uses his physic powers to violate the law, including illegal mind scans, “reprogramming” people’s minds to do his bidding (including one of the main characters). He has a blatant disregard for the lives of “mundanes” (non-telepathic people), and doesn’t hesitate to poison the minds of younger easily influenced telepaths with his twisted ideals. He has a talent for manipulating and using people (even without his telepathic powers) to his own advantages. To top it all off he survives through the end of the series.

Truly magnificent

[SolkaTruesilver]

I think people should really think about what the MB is. They are putting up peoples who are very very clever, that's true (Odysseus for an example), or other people who do plan cleverly (Mengsk).

But the Magnificient Bastard is.. much more. If you struggle against him, you are playing right into his hand. If you stay still, you leave him the initiative.

Grand Admiral Thrawn was the perfect example of the MB. Save for one mistake (underestimating Leia's recklessness to go to Honorogh), he was in total control all the time. It was clear all around that he had a plan, and you could either bow down to him, or die trying uselessly. Winning against him wasn't a neat "win" at all.

Morriarty never really managed to put it's opponents into a web of pan where they were completely trapped. His plans were twarved repeatedly.

Leto II WAS a Magnificient Bastard indeed. He... planned it all. From the beginning, up to the end. He even surpass Thrawn into the planning and general thinking.

So, please think carefully. The MB really don't leave you any breathing room. That's the whole point. If he's just a clever opponent who opposes cleverly the protagonist, but is beaten at every turn (without making progress by being defeated), that's not an MB. An MB plans for victory in defeat.

[EvilElitest]

can a protagonist who isn't an anti hero be a MB really?
from
EE

[chiasaur11]

I think people should really think about what the MB is. They are putting up peoples who are very very clever, that's true (Odysseus for an example), or other people who do plan cleverly (Mengsk).

But the Magnificient Bastard is.. much more. If you struggle against him, you are playing right into his hand. If you stay still, you leave him the initiative.

Grand Admiral Thrawn was the perfect example of the MB. Save for one mistake (underestimating Leia's recklessness to go to Honorogh), he was in total control all the time. It was clear all around that he had a plan, and you could either bow down to him, or die trying uselessly. Winning against him wasn't a neat "win" at all.

Morriarty never really managed to put it's opponents into a web of pan where they were completely trapped. His plans were twarved repeatedly.

Leto II WAS a Magnificient Bastard indeed. He... planned it all. From the beginning, up to the end. He even surpass Thrawn into the planning and general thinking.

So, please think carefully. The MB really don't leave you any breathing room. That's the whole point. If he's just a clever opponent who opposes cleverly the protagonist, but is beaten at every turn (without making progress by being defeated), that's not an MB. An MB plans for victory in defeat.

See, that's why I'm backing Vetinari. Look at him in the Von Lipwig stories. The only times he's not on top of it, it is the end of the world. Cthuloid monstrosities and all.

[Callos_DeTerran]

1) The Major. (Hellsing)

I cannot find words to describe the sheer awesome. Check out the clip instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INotAKQV2tk

It's about damn time that someone mentions the Major! Everything he does in that series he makes it look like it was part of his plan. EVERYTHING (Not entirely up to date though so this might have changed but I doubt it). Even getting his own men brutally slaughtered by deus-ex-machina-in-vampire-form Alucard.

That said my one friend is insistent that not only does the Major not have a clue what he's doing but he merely says everything is part of a 'plan' when he's just making **** up. :smalltongue: Unbeliever.

[hanzo66]

Also from what I can tell, a Magnificent Bastard has to have not only master planning (IE whatever you do, they're either prepared for it/part of the plan) but also particularly incredible amounts of charisma and style, lest they become something of a Smug Snake (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/main/SmugSnake) (IE snivelling creepy individuals who dress in heavy cloaks, wring their hands and snicker to themselves while their plans succeed).


At least, that's how I see it.

[Gygaxphobia]

I really want to add the Cardinal de Richelieu (The Three Musketeers by Dumas), and then also Iago (Othello by Shakespeare) for some classical MBs.

[Kato]

Hm... lot of great guys, though I don't know all... BUT how is it even possible one was not mentioned up to now? XANATOS from Gargoyles. He is the very offspring of Xanatos' Gambit and Roulette and one of the best examples for an MB I think. Think... he's a common human - okay, he's a billionaire or trillionaire or something - and still was a formidable opponent having almost always an ace up his sleeve.

Also there are quite some examples from animes, such as Gundam 00's magnificent bastardness Ari al-Sarchez who is not only a god-pilot, but also tricks a whole nation into giving him their latest mobile suit prototype. Not mentioning him killing his allied CEO and a main character... and surviving (sadly).
In G Gundam Master Asia might be considered a MB, though he is not that much of a bastard, revealing his true intentions...
Gundam Wing's Treize Kushrenada is at least in the fandom an eternal example of bastardness tricking the main cast into preventing a peace conference and making him the ruler of the world (almost) Though... he lacks quite some magnificentness... (taking pink, rose flavored bubble baths is kinda... er.. you get my point)
You might also consider Char Aznabel as one, but he is kind of in a league of his own.
In Naruto there are some at least candidates... Though... they are either no bastards or not magnificent...
Then there is the Final Fantasy series... In the latest parts we might take Vayne (XII) and Seymour (X) into account, which both are masters of manipulation and in control until facing of against heavily plot-armored main characters.

Though... there are other's mentioned already but I'm bad at making rankings... so I'll just throw in those... at least someone remember Xanatos', damn it!

[sun_tzu]

In no particular order:

Thrawn. The ultimate strategist. There's a reason he rhymes with "pwn".

Light Yagami. Just, Light Yagami.

JLU Lex Luthor. Especially in the last two seasons.

Nemesis, from City of Heroes/Villains. I actually get giddy whenever it looks like the plot I'm trying to foil is masterminded by him.

Kaito Kid, from "Detective Conan". He's the tultimate phantom thief.
I'd have nominated Gin from the same series, but he isn't magnificent so much as freaking scary. Goddamn super-competent badass assassin...

Azula.

Dunno about Hank Morgan, from "A Connecticut Yankee at King Arthur's Court". He's the main characer and a good guy, and I'm not certain he qualifies as a bastard (though he's certainly a tricky fellow)...but he is magnificent.

[hanzo66]

David Xanatos definitely is a prime example of a true Magnificent Bastard, since not only does he possess masterful plotting and the ability to know what others would do to the point that somehow anytime he "loses" he'll merely accept it as all "Part of his Plan", but is also naturally charismatic, probably capable of talking his way out of anything.

Rather than being the "Damn you, Goliath! You failed me! I'll get you next time! RETREAT!" type he's more the "Meh, don't worry, this'll work out for me within the next five episodes or so. Anyways who's up for a Latte?"

This link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttB3neLvNCo)should show some of David's "Magnificence" for those unfamiliar to the show.

[Xuincherguixe]

can a protagonist who isn't an anti hero be a MB really?
from
EE

Dominic Deegan gets kind of close.

[ArmorArmadillo]

Dominic Deegan gets kind of close.

No, no, no, you're thinking androgenous bastard.

[FoE]

There must not be any "Song of Ice and Fire" fans in this thread, because no one has yet mentioned Petyr Baelish. A noble of little standing, but is in truth the most powerful man in all of Westeros, and the architect behind most of the major events in the series. Even Tyrion Lannister doubts whether he could go up against Petyr.

Azula and David Xanatos have already been mentioned, of course, but Lex Luthor from the Justice League animated series deserves to be on the list.

"That's right, conspiracy buff. I spent $75 million on a fake presidential campaign just to tick Superman off."

Also, Keyser Soze from the Usual Suspects. 'Nuff said.

[EvilElitest]

real life example, my avatar
from
EE

[Sotextli]

Since we're on the subject of Historical Magnificent Bastardry, I'd like to throw in William the Conquerer.

Before I get to him, here's a bit about another possible Magnificent Bastard; Harald Hardrada, or Harald III of Norway.At the age of fifteen, Harald aided his father in an attempt to reclaim the Norwegian throne from Canute the Great. Unfortunately, Harald's father was slain, and Harald was forced to flee his own country, fearing that Canute would come after him. While leaving Norway, Harald managed to gather together a small army of fellow exiles and headed towards Russia, where he was eventually made joint defense commander of the armies of Yaroslav I. After that, he got bored and went south to Byzantium, where he joined the Varangian Guard. Now, the Varangian Guard is pretty much famous for kicking butt all around the Mediterranean, and that says a lot about Harald that he became the head of the operation, and then used the Guard to accomplish his own goals. Harald was also pretty tactics savvy, using birds covered in burning resin to siege fortresses, as well as using complex feint maneuvers. While he was down there, Harald got incredibly rich off of the fat loot he was able to obtain.

(Also of note, although the primary source of the story is a bit dodgy, being Snorri Sturluson, who at the time he wrote about it was pushing for Norwegian Nationalism, Harald apparently conquered Jerusalem without spilling any blood).

After he was done hanging around with the Byzantines, Harald got bored again and decided he wanted to retake Norway. Fortunately, he didn't have to fight for it, as his nephew was sitting on the throne. Magnus was pretty much a wuss and decided that it was a good idea not to piss off his uncle, who everyone knew was badass. About a year later, Magnus died mysteriously. I'll give you a couple of guesses as to who might have been behind that. Not only did Harald become the King of Norway, but because Magnus had earlier made a deal with the old King of Denmark, Harald became king of two Scandinavian nations, filled to the brim with Vikings willing to go to war with anyone who looked at them funny.

Eventually, it came to pass that England needed a new king, and as there were several power-hungry folks around who wanted the crown, it was inevitable that there would occur some type of war. Harald was one of the guys who decided to invade England for a shot at the throne. At first, he was wiping butt as always, and one a solid victory against the English in the Battle of Fulford. Unfortunately, Harald got cocky and marched with only half his men in light armor and weapons to claim the throne. He got as far as Stamford Bridge, and was killed by another would-be usurper.

Now, the reason why William the Conquerer is my candidate is because he used the other usurper, Harald Hardraada, to distract Godwinson so that he could invade from Normandy. Godwinson had to rush back with a weakened army, and was handily defeated and slain in battle.

[Kato]

Hm...if we are going to take into account historic MB's we have to consider the...let's call him worst bastard ever. He might seem a hilarious figure from our today's view, but he had a whole nation and more backing him up, so there had to be something magnificent about him. He'll probably never be forgotten for his crimes and even nowadays he's... hm... yeah, some people admire him in a way (mostly dumb people, though) but most people see any comparison to him as a horrible insult. Yeah, he failed in the end... but I can hardly think of a MBwho did win in the end, just because 'the good guys always win.'
(I hope you know who I'm talking about. I try to not name this person when praising him in the same sentence, he just doesn't deserve it)

[Terraoblivion]

Harald Hardrada was never the king of Denmark, Sotextli. A long war was fought between him and Svend Estridsen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweyn_II_of_Denmark), the king of Denmark until Harald Hardrada gave up in 1064, despite having won most of the battles between the two.

[sun_tzu]

When talking about historical magnificent bastards, the names that spring to my mind are Napoleon, Cesar and Bismarck.

[Kato]

When talking about historical magnificent bastards, the names that spring to my mind are Napoleon, Cesar and Bismarck.

I wouldn't give that much to Cesar, but Bismarck might be a good idea. Also Macchiaveli might join in, though he just made up theories...
I wonder if Che and/or Fidel might fit...

[Gygaxphobia]

I don't think Che or Fidel were strategic enough, you might get Stalin on that but really his enemies are little known about (and their graves unmarked...)

I think it's getting a bit distasteful to name RL politico's. Otherwise we'd have Pol Pot and a host of others. Genghis maybe.

[EvilElitest]

Pol Pot lacked the chrisma. A MB has to actually be an interest person with chrisma. Caesar, Bismarch and Napleon for example
from
EE

[Gygaxphobia]

Pol Pot lacked the chrisma.

What?! How on earth do you know that?
It's entirely subjective besides, but of all the negative things I've read about him I don't remember him even being rebuked for having a lack of charisma ;)

Bismarck? Caesar and Napoleon maybe, but Bismarck is not exactly known for his winning personality. Otherwise you could say that any successful politician or anyone with a meteoric rise had incredible charisma.

[Mx.Silver]

I don't know about top 10, but when I think of an MB the first person who comes to mind is Lucas Buck, villain of American Gothic. I suspect the small number of people who have heard of him will argue he's too small scale a villain to really count, but given that the man has maintained an impeccable facade as a lawman despite multiple counts of murder, rape, torture, extortion, blackmail and intimidation. During the series there are three direct attempts on his life and he manages to turn all of them to his advantage even when the third leaves him declared dead and buried alive. Throw in the fact that he's up against a literal avenging angel and still manages to make the best out of her various divinely-empowered curses and you've got a pretty good case.

But what really seals it though, isn't any of this; rather, it's his sheer personality. He is unashamedly evil and loves it. He carries off every single one of his deplorably hideous with such a level of suave grace and wit it just has to be seen to be believed.

[sealemon]

Darkseid, Luthor, Dr. Doom.

Ozymandius from Watchmen

Also, from Preacher:

Jesus.

The bearded Future Hulk from that old graphic novel the Perez illustrated (And wrote? Can't remember)

Tyler Durden.

Keyser Soze.

Agree on the true version of Morriarty, but how about the version from LXG? Pretty cool bad guy there, IMO.

[ArmorArmadillo]

What?! How on earth do you know that?
It's entirely subjective besides, but of all the negative things I've read about him I don't remember him even being rebuked for having a lack of charisma ;)

Bismarck? Caesar and Napoleon maybe, but Bismarck is not exactly known for his winning personality. Otherwise you could say that any successful politician or anyone with a meteoric rise had incredible charisma.

It's really hard to assign this kind of trope to historical figures since in real life there isn't an overarching plot or group of protagonists to control. Napolean is about as close as it gets...except for Erwin Rommel of course.

[GrassyGnoll]

This as of yet unnamed lich (http://www.kukuburi.com/2007/10/02/twentytwo/) looks to set a shining example of magnificent bastard-ness. So far the comic is only on it's ninetieth or so strip, but the villain is brimming with potential.

[Sotextli]

Harald Hardrada was never the king of Denmark, Sotextli. A long war was fought between him and Svend Estridsen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweyn_II_of_Denmark), the king of Denmark until Harald Hardrada gave up in 1064, despite having won most of the battles between the two.

Ah, of course you're right. I read 'claimed throne' and thought that he actually succeeded.

[Gygaxphobia]

It's really hard to assign this kind of trope to historical figures since in real life there isn't an overarching plot or group of protagonists to control.

None that you are aware of at least... ;)
But of course you are right, it only works in authored works or else it's not a trope.

[EvilElitest]

What?! How on earth do you know that?
It's entirely subjective besides, but of all the negative things I've read about him I don't remember him even being rebuked for having a lack of charisma ;)

Bismarck? Caesar and Napoleon maybe, but Bismarck is not exactly known for his winning personality. Otherwise you could say that any successful politician or anyone with a meteoric rise had incredible charisma.

What makes an MB is taht you almost admire him despite his flaws, which is what makes Caesar, Napoleon, Hannibal, and Bismarck people who inspire a certain, well, hmm i wish there was a certain term to describe something that you can't quite describe. many the french could make such a term.


Another good MB i think would be Mark Anthony in the play Julius Caesar and the HBO first season Rome

And me :smallwink:

and we might want to get off the modern dictators
from
EE

[sun_tzu]

What makes an MB is taht you almost admire him despite his flaws, which is what makes Caesar, Napoleon, Hannibal, and Bismarck people who inspire a certain, well, hmm i wish there was a certain term to describe something that you can't quite describe. many the french could make such a term.


Another good MB i think would be Mark Anthony in the play Julius Caesar and the HBO first season Rome

And me :smallwink:

and we might want to get off the modern dictators
from
EE

Quoted for truth. Napoleon and Cesar overthrew democracies to make themsleves dictators, then waged wars of conquest to feed their egos. They were villains who crushed under their heels everything I want to stand for.
But dammit, they did it with so much class and skill that, upon reading the History books, I root for them despite it all.
That's what makes them MBs.

[Kato]

Quoted for truth. Napoleon and Cesar overthrew democracies to make themsleves dictators, then waged wars of conquest to feed their egos. They were villains who crushed under their heels everything I want to stand for.
But dammit, they did it with so much class and skill that, upon reading the History books, I root for them despite it all.
That's what makes them MBs.

Hmpf... that's a quite simple view... The French republic was at the edge of failing anyway... Napoleon just took the command before anyone else did... and then he did some good stuff for the rest of Europe, even if he had to conquer it first. Of course it was not really good, but it was neither really bad. Much the same with Cesar... though back in his times, this was like... all common. Everyone wanted to rule on his own, but he succeeded. I don't want to bash their magnificence but their bastardness... (Okay, both had to trick someone to gain power, Cesar even his allies, but who cares?)

[Freshmeat]

What makes an MB is taht you almost admire him despite his flaws, which is what makes Caesar, Napoleon, Hannibal, and Bismarck people who inspire a certain, well, hmm i wish there was a certain term to describe something that you can't quite describe. many the french could make such a term.

Panache?

As a quick aside from the real-life emperors/conquerors discussion here:
Although he's certainly not one of the greatest, I consider T-Bag from Prison Break quite the magnificent bastard as well. I'm not up-to-date in regards to the third season, but during the first two seasons he pretty much talks his way out of variety of tricky situations, cons himself a spot into the escapee team, (somehow) manages to gain plottorific super-strength as soon as he loses his hand, cons himself a spot into the treasure hunting team and then acquires said treasure even though the good guys had an entire plan worked out to keep it for themselves.
All of this while simultaneously making everyone believe that he's nothing but an idiot simply because he's a redneck trailer park kid with deplorable morals.

[Dervag]

The problem is that any conqueror is going to be seen in a very negative light nowadays, because we don't take kindly to attempts at conquest. There's too much support for the idea of government by the consent of the governed.

If you view a conqueror in that light, they will always be a bastard, because they have taken control of lands and peoples by winning wars. Similarly, if you view anyone who does political maneuvering as a bastard, something similar happens.

So we wind up concluding that every successful conqueror or politician who ever lived was a magnificent bastard, except those who were repulsive enough not to be magnificent.

But that debases the term "magnificent bastard."

[Albub]

Kevin Costner's character in Mr. Brooks. Everything goes his way. Everything. Because he wants it to. The only hiccup in his track record is a spoiler, and I don't know how to do spoiler tags, but let's just say in the end it doesn't affect him overmuch.

[Destro_Yersul]

Not too sure about this one, but would Vlad the Impaler count?

If he doesn't, then at least Dracula does.

[Gygaxphobia]

Panache?

Je ne sais quoi? At least if I read the pretentiousness correctly.

[Demons_eye]

Not too sure about this one, but would Vlad the Impaler count?

If he doesn't, then at least Dracula does.

Well he didnt do much planing tho did he? Some one come up he'd stick em with the pointy end and leave to died.

And depends on the Dracula.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

Jack Sparrow.

[chiasaur11]

Well he didnt do much planing tho did he? Some one come up he'd stick em with the pointy end and leave to died.

And depends on the Dracula.

Dr. Mcninja Dracula.
He has at least one draculbot

[Telonius]

Not limiting the list to the bad guys...

Randall Flagg
Sherlock Holmes
Batman
Simon Gruber
Virgil (from Mighty Max)
Sanjuro (Yojimbo)/Nameless Cowboy (A Fistfull of Dollars)

[ArmorArmadillo]

Not limiting the list to the bad guys...
Well, I think limiting it to bad guys is an inherent part of the Magnificent Bastard thing.

[Telonius]

Not necessarily. You just have to be a bastard, not necessarily a villain. There are quite a few protagonists who come close enough - mainly the ones who straddle the line between heroism and villainy themselves - to qualify.

[SolkaTruesilver]

All right, here is what I can think that best describe the feeling a MB is supposed to inspire into his ennemies:

"I cannot defeat him. I can only kill him."

(spoiler totally useless, but I couldn't resist)

And that no longer hold my interest...
- Kill them both!

You do not defeat a Magnificient Bastard. You may try to kill him, and hope that his plans aren't self-fullfilling. But you just cannot beat him. Caesar fell into this category. He was unbeatable. The only way they got rid of him was by assassination.

The same about Thrawn. He never have been beaten (on the grand scale of thing, I mean). The only way the Republic wons was because of an assassination.

Sidious? He was unbeatable. Only the treachery of his Second in Command to kill him was be able to get out of it alive.

Napoleon? He was beaten. But then again.. I heard that the english had him executed (subtly) to prevent his rise again. Maybe he was a MB.

[Nevrmore]

I'd debate Aizen's MB status.

I mean, to me, part of being a magnificent bastard is that people know you're evil and the villain and can't do anything about it because you are so badass and clever.

Aizen's biggest trick ultimately comes from the fact that nobody had any reason to suspect him of anything, so he got an incredibly wide berth.


Also, I second needing Light and Adrian Viedt
You say that Aizen doesn't deserve to be a Magnificent Bastard because no one knew of his evilness until it was too late, then you turn right around and suggest Light Yagami and Adrian Veidt?

[chiasaur11]

You know a guy who's really good at the whole "screw everyone else over to some degree, benefit himself, and get people to thank him for it" bit?

Jeeves. Bertie borderline thanks him for pinning whatever incident they're involved in on him. And he gets paid by the guy he screws over. If that isn't magnificent bastard, what is?

[Gygaxphobia]

^ thats a great suggestion


Not necessarily. You just have to be a bastard, not necessarily a villain. There are quite a few protagonists who come close enough - mainly the ones who straddle the line between heroism and villainy themselves - to qualify.

Like Odysseus.

[StGlebidiah]

Toranaga from the book Shogun by J. Clavell. He doesn't really seem like it until the end, when you get confirmation of what a few of his plans were.

[Arioch]

Azula. Azula, Azula, Azula. She's been mentioned, but not enough. This woman (girl, really) has proven her Magnificent Bitchness on many an occasion. Add to this the fact that she is dangerously genre savvy, and you get a recipe for win.

She shot down the hero in the middle of his transformation sequence, for goodess' sake! I mean, no one ever does that!

Also, I nominate Machiavelli, the inventor of magnificent bastardry when it comes to politics.

[Pronounceable]

Machiavelli isn't exactly an MB himself, he just wrote the book on it.


Like Odysseus.

Hey, he's the single Greek hero whose brain wasn't in his biceps. He's just smart, he has nothing to do with bastardary.

[hamishspence]

he wrote several books. argued that you need a Prince (archetypal MB) to build a state, but a republic to maintain it.

[Gygaxphobia]

zakly, Machiavelli is all talk and no trousers. He never actually did anything.

Odysseus is not the only smart greek hero by any means (Thiomethes, Iraklios*, Theseus all have smarts), and none of them were exactly nice (most of them rapists). But maybe the major heroes don't qualify as MBs, they are not really long term planners.

*being my own personal crusade to spell Diomedes and Herakles more properly.

[chiasaur11]

Huh. Someone put Jeeves on the Tvtropes magnificent bastard page...
At the exact same time as I first thought of him as a magnificent bastard.

Freaky.

[Construct]

Now, the reason why William the Conquerer is my candidate is because he used the other usurper, Harald Hardraada, to distract Godwinson so that he could invade from Normandy. Godwinson had to rush back with a weakened army, and was handily defeated and slain in battle.

Nah, Big Willie had intended to pop over earlier but a freak storm delayed him, indeed nearly cancelled the tour. And even with the dumb luck of one Harry making the other force-march to Stamford Bridge and back, he *still* nearly got his ass kicked at Senlac.

There are several definitions of 'magnificent bastard' being used in this thread, so for 'bastard you can't help but admire' I'll second Aizen Sosuke — one can't help but cheer as he lords it over the corrupt and incompetent Soul Society with basic mis-direction and flexibility — and for 'bastard who can one-up your one-ups' I'll nominate Mayuri Kurotsuchi — who demolishes that wannabe the Eighth Espada in short order and proceeds to raid his pantry (which is only fair, seeing as the Eighth had raided Nemu's). No prizes for guessing what I've been catching up on lately. =) I can't think of an example for 'bastard with eye-rollingly circuitous schemes' unfortunately; Kisuke Urahara looked a likely candidate initially but, alas, this seems increasingly unlikely.

[horngeek]

My top Magnificent Bastard is:

Grand Admiral Thrawn. He was so good that the EMPEROR (an anti-alien bastard) made him a grand admiral.

"That's a nice painting, I now know how to kill you all"

[Kobold-Bard]

I am nominating Azula from Avatar: The Last Airbender, before she goes insane and starts hacking her hair off and talking to her dead mothers reflection in a mirror.

I am not entirely sure on the criteria for a Magnificent Bastard, and I don't know if her existence in a kids show will count against her, so feel free to judge my suggestion with outrage and hatred, but any coherent resons would also be appreciated.

[EvilElitest]

Quoted for truth. Napoleon and Cesar overthrew democracies to make themsleves dictators, then waged wars of conquest to feed their egos. They were villains who crushed under their heels everything I want to stand for.
But dammit, they did it with so much class and skill that, upon reading the History books, I root for them despite it all.
That's what makes them MBs.

exactly, Dervag, the flaw in your theory is that MBs aren't just succesful. They have to be likable. Cesaer and Napleon were total bastards, but they have a certain charm, and you just can't help but like them for being so honest about their general bastardness. Its the charm


Spike was once a magnigicent bastard, as was azula. Oh badass decay
from
EE

[Deepblue706]

Lex Luthor, Xanatos, Zeus, Napoleon, Rommel, Iago, Richard III, Delita, Revolver Ocelot, Caesar, in no particular order.

[renevq]

How come nobody has mentioned Rorschach?

"Hey, you remember that guy, the one who pretended to be a super villain so he could get beaten up?"
"Whatever happened to him?"
"Uh, well, he pulled it on Rorschach and Rorschach dropped him down an elevator shaft"

That, the diary entry at the beginning, the way he absolutely owns everybody in prison, and the line at the end:

"Not even in the face of Armageddon, never compromise"

The man is a magnificent bastard.

[kpenguin]

How come nobody has mentioned Rorschach?

"Hey, you remember that guy, the one who pretended to be a super villain so he could get beaten up?"
"Whatever happened to him?"
"Uh, well, he pulled it on Rorschach and Rorschach dropped him down an elevator shaft"

That, the diary entry at the beginning, the way he absolutely owns everybody in prison, and the line at the end:

"Not even in the face of Armageddon, never compromise"

The man is a magnificent bastard.

Read the definition of a magnificent bastard. Rorschach is magnificent and he is a bastard, but he's not a magnificent bastard.



Spike was once a magnigicent bastard, as was azula. Oh badass decay
from
EE

You're repeating yourself, EE. You already said Spike was once a magnificent bastard.

[EvilElitest]

You're repeating yourself, EE. You already said Spike was once a magnificent bastard.
Yeah, i'm just putting that in context with azula, who has suffered from the same aliment
from
EE