Best Sci-fi RPG's

[Din Tempre]

Hey,

So my group wants to try something different and play a sci-fi game. As GM, I'm picking out the system. Unfortunately, the only systems I have read books in are d20 mecha, Armaggedon 2089, and of course d20 Modern/Future; worse, I have played none of them.

I am looking for a hard-science, no/low-magic/psionic game.

Suggestions?

[Matthew]

Tough call. StarSiege (http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/siege/1501.html) is a new sci-fi RPG from Troll Lord Games. Alternatively, you might try out Traveller (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpg/series.php?qsSeries=51) from Mongoose Games or the entirely free and remastered Star Frontiers (http://www.starfrontiers.org/), which is currently being supported by the Star Frontiersman (http://www.starfrontiersman.com/).

D6 Star Wars, D6 Space, and Babylon Five are worth mentioning, but probably don't quite fit the bill, having more 'magic' type stuff in them.

[hamlet]

You want to play with either Traveller, or Alternity.

Since I'm an Alternity whore, I'll recommend it repeatedly to you.


You want Alternity!
You want Alternity!
You want Alternity!
You want Alternity!
You want Alternity!
You want Alternity!
You want Alternity!
You want Alternity!
You want Alternity!
You want Alternity!
You want Alternity!



Ok, I'm done with that now.

Seriously, a very good system that is immeasurably adjustable, way beyond what D20 Modern ever was.

[Grynning]

Are you looking for generic sci-fi rules, rather than a specific setting?

Because there are a lot of good licensed sci-fi games out there. I know that there are Babylon 5, Farscape, and Serenity RPG's on the shelf at my local gaming store (haven't played any of them, but flipping through them the rules seem passable).
Right now I've been playing in a Star Trek game using the Decipher system - unfortunately it's out of print, so finding the books is a bit difficult, but the system is good, it's very, very similar to d20, but with 2d6 used for all the roles, and a point-based leveling system. Warhammer 40k Dark Heresy just came out, it looks like a lot of fun, and the people I know who play it say it's solid.

There's always Star Wars d20 Saga edition, but that's more what I'd call Space Fantasy than true sci-fi. Still good though.

For generic rules, I'd say that the d20 future/mecha books could probably serve your needs adequately, especially if your players are already familiar with d20 Modern. I'd also recommend checking out a universal system like True 20 (Green Ronin), GURPS, or Hero System, they are designed to be very adaptable and work well for sci-fi games.

[Thrud]

Yeah, I have to agree. I really liked alternity. It was fun, and reasonably well balanced.

Of course, if you want fun and not balanced, there is always HoL (Human Occupied Landfill) Now that is a GREAT game. It is so much fun creating characters that you may never actually get around to playing the game.

:smallbiggrin:

Shadowrun is a great world with a truly abysmal set of rules for playing in it. Star Wars, likewise. Gurps has some decent SciFi games, but the cost of getting a full set of gurps books is somewhat prohibitive.

I personally love the Hero system, though I am the first to admit that it has a pretty awful set of rules too, and requires constant GM intervention. Still, you can duplicate any other game with the hero system. It IS the only truly generic universal game I have ever come across. Because with the one core book you can create anything else. But it is time consuming and easily prone to abuse.

And then there is good old Gamma World, early TSR's post apocalyptic mutant/sci fi game. Terrible game, but kinda fun for beer and pretzels.

In terms of actual good scifi games, I always like Aeon (renamed Trinity due to copyright issues with Aeon Flux, which made NO sense.) which was white wolf's sci-fi game, and there was a later expansion (well, prequel really) called Aberrant. They were kinda fun. Never got too much of a chance to play them though.

Hmm, that's all I can think of at the moment. I am sure others will come to me later.

[Din Tempre]

I think a definite setting is important. Nothing so specific as Judge Dredd (forgot to mention that); more like D&D's Greyhawk, lots of framework, such as equipment, classes, feats, etc. without a specific location necissitated. While I can be creative, a detailed "big picture" could smooth out long campaigns.

Not to narrow it down too much, but if there is no difference between the control of a fighter and a bomber, a tank and a mech, or a powersuit and armor, then I would be unable to generate those myself.

EDIT: and those differences are important to me.

PS (I know I'm looking for suggestions, but what about Transhuman Space? Again, not limiting myself to d20 system)

[hamlet]

I think a definite setting is important. Nothing so specific as Judge Dredd (forgot to mention that); more like D&D's Greyhawk, lots of framework, such as equipment, classes, feats, etc. without a specific location necissitated. While creative, a detailed "big picture" could smooth out long campaigns.

Not to narrow it down too much, but if there is no difference between the control of a fighter and a bomber, a tank and a mech, or a powersuit and armor, then I would be unable to generate those myself.

EDIT: and those differences are important to me.

PS (I know I'm looking for suggestions, but what about Transhuman Space? Again, not limiting myself to d20 system)

Again, I'm gonna recommend the Alternity system. It has a default setting that is very good (Star Drive) though probably a little Space Opera-y for what you're looking for. You can easily adapt it, though.

Go here: http://www.nobleknight.com/ViewProducts.asp_Q_ProductLineID_E_2137418348_A_Ma nufacturerID_E_209_A_CategoryID_E_12_A_GenreID_E_

It has a lot of the Alternity stuff for decent prices. Or you can get the .pdf's from Paizo for super cheap.

The point of Alternity, explicitely stated, was to provide a near universal system that lent itself wonderfully to sci-fi and modern rpg's as opposed to the virtually fantasy bound AD&D systems.

There are rules for just about everything you can imagine under the sun and what rules aren't there are VERY easy to create yourself.

[AaronH]

You know, the mutants and masterminds system is extremely adaptable and I have always thought it would make for a good basis for a scifi game.

[archmage45]

I have to second Alternity. Traveler T20 was fun too.

[Thrud]

Ooh, traveller. I loved that game. Only game I ever played where it was possible to die in character creation through the luck of die rolls. (well, except for HoL, but that doesn't count. It isn't a serious game)

I never played the D20 variant, but the traveller setting itself was great.

[Krrth]

Well, I had a lot of fun with Space Opera. It's been out of print for a while now, but I've seen copies in game stores.

[Din Tempre]

Hey, thanks for the input so far. Thinking now, "Best Sci-fi RPG" was a bad title; "Best fit Sci-fi RPG" would have been better: scemantics. Here's a list of suggestions so far and what I've found out:


Space Opera - Out Of Print
Traveller - ?
Alternity - did I read wrong or is the DC system based on character level, not task by task?
GURPS - ???
40K - Is this inquisition or anyone?
StarSiege - ?
2089 - seems ok, but rules seem incomplete
Transhuman Space - runs on GURPS
d20 Modern/Future - not very realistic

So my fault, I wasn't clear that the biggest things I am looking for is a realistic system (like HP/vitality is more realistic than HP/subdual) for a hard-science, near-ish future campaign. Rule-heavy is okay, as long as the system works (as I have been unable to do with 2089). The more fantastic the technology, the more it feels like fantasy (not always a bad thing, but not what I'm looking for).

On a completely contridictory note, 40k sounds like fun as the Rule of Cool completely trumps the need for realism in that specific case, but only because there is so much fluff that tries to make it sound plausible (if you ignore physics and common sense of course).

[Thrud]

Have you thought about Cyberpunk, then? Not sure if it is still in print, but it is pretty gritty and dark, and near future. Think Johnny Mnemonic (since that was (badly) based on a story by Gibson, the man who invented the cyberpunk genre.) Hackers, megacorporations running everything, cyber-enhanced people. And I believe that there is a Gurps Cyberpunk, and I am pretty sure there is a D20 cyberpunk too.

i.e. Shadowrun without magic.

[Hawriel]

I have to second Star wars Second ed (D6) by west end games. If you dont want star wars try Sci fi D6. its pritty much star wars D6 3rd ed with out being limited to star wars. Its not level based its stat and skill based so there is alot of room to make any kind of character you want. You can get the books cheep off of amazon. The books are written in a way that gives context with the rules wile being generic enough to fit any setting you want.

http://www.westendgames.com/d6_space.asp

[bosssmiley]

Decent hard sci-fi games.
Cyberpunk 2020 "Deep Space"
GURPS sci-fi stuff
MegaTraveller
Spacemaster
Blue Planet
Alternity

Star Wars d6, Fading Suns & LUG Dune are all good, but probably a bit too soft sci-fi for your requirements.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I like d20 modern but I can't recommend d20 future. All the classes, feats, cybernetics and gadjets are either useless or broken and each chapter is inconsistant.

[hamlet]

Hey, thanks for the input so far. Thinking now, "Best Sci-fi RPG" was a bad title; "Best fit Sci-fi RPG" would have been better: scemantics. Here's a list of suggestions so far and what I've found out:


Space Opera - Out Of Print
Traveller - ?
Alternity - did I read wrong or is the DC system based on character level, not task by task?
GURPS - ???
40K - Is this inquisition or anyone?
StarSiege - ?
2089 - seems ok, but rules seem incomplete
Transhuman Space - runs on GURPS
d20 Modern/Future - not very realistic

So my fault, I wasn't clear that the biggest things I am looking for is a realistic system (like HP/vitality is more realistic than HP/subdual) for a hard-science, near-ish future campaign. Rule-heavy is okay, as long as the system works (as I have been unable to do with 2089). The more fantastic the technology, the more it feels like fantasy (not always a bad thing, but not what I'm looking for).

On a completely contridictory note, 40k sounds like fun as the Rule of Cool completely trumps the need for realism in that specific case, but only because there is so much fluff that tries to make it sound plausible (if you ignore physics and common sense of course).

The internet ate my nice, cogent post, so I reply shortly:

1. The "DC" system of Alternity is not level based, it is SKILL level based. The higher your skill, the easier it is to perform the task. Your skill level is, initially, based off of the linked attribute. Low rolls are always better except in damage. The Alternity system is, in a way, a little wonky because instead of modifying the target for the roll, it modifies the dice you use. You always roll 1d20, but then you add or subtract the result of a second, situational die based on difficulty. If I recall correctly, yer average, non-routine difficulty is the result of a d20+d4, the total of which must be equal to or less than your skill score.

It looks wonky at first blush, but believe me, in practice, it's absurdly elegant. It makes d20 look like a dinosaur.

2. Traveller is being reprinted by Mongoose. It is a very space opera like setting and might not be what you're looking for.

3. Alternity (yes, I am that much of a whore for the system) can perform near future hard sci-fi like a dream. I used it to replicate an Assimovian short campaign based on the robot series of novels. It worked like a dream, especially with the robot and Dataware books on hand.

[Jayabalard]

GURPS has had several Sci-fi source books, though I think some of them may may be for the previous edition still; everything from lensman (very pulpy) to Humanx (Alan Dean Foster's Commonwealth), Changing Times, Terradyne, Traveler, New Sun, Uplift, cyberpunk, cthullupunk, and so on. Some of them can be useful even if you're going to play a different RPG system.


YGurps has some decent SciFi games, but the cost of getting a full set of gurps books is somewhat prohibitive.Not necessarily... You can get by with just the GURPS basic (two books, character and campaigns for players and GM's respectivly) + a setting book; for example, if you get basic + Humanx you have enoguh to run a campaign in the commonwealth. That's not too bad, costwise.

Of course, if you want to you can also pick up a dozen books or more: space, ultratech, infinite worlds, martial arts, bio-tech, spaceships, powers (psionics and super powers), horror, etc... including other setting books. It's all up to you.


If you don't care so much about balance, then RIFTS can be interesting; mecha + post apocalyptic world + time/dimensional travel + magic.

[Din Tempre]

Question: what is the realism of the system? For example, HP is very unrealistic, even with subdual damage. I know its a representative combination of dodge, luck, edurance, and actual damage, but surely there is something better, or at least differnt (like Wound and Vitality from UA). I guess what I really want to know is how these systems differ from d20. For example, I think I read GURPS have no level system, but is completely point buy.

(And I still look into the suggestions put forth: such as I found a harder setting of Alternity called Big Ideas, Grand Vision that looks promising)

[Tam_OConnor]

Well, I gotta do my thing and recommend the Serenity RPG to you. Fairly rules-light, so it may not be what you're looking for, but it does hard sci fi fairly well. Most of my experience with it is Star Wars-related, but all you have to do is take out the Reader trait and you have a no-magic/psionics/Clarke's technology setting. No sourcebooks, though, so you'd best be prepared to do homebrewing and houseruling as the need arises. Shiny system, overall.

Rules wise, it's point-buy, with advantages, flaws and skills. But the attributes correspond to the six d20 stats (Str, Dex, etc), combat is more or less identical (but with more stunts). No levels or classes. Fairly realistic injury system (better than the abstractness of HP, at least). Overall, it plays like the mutant love child of d20 and GURPS, but in a good way.

[hamlet]

Question: what is the realism of the system? For example, HP is very unrealistic, even with subdual damage. I know its a representative combination of dodge, luck, edurance, and actual damage, but surely there is something better, or at least differnt (like Wound and Vitality from UA). I guess what I really want to know is how these systems differ from d20. For example, I think I read GURPS have no level system, but is completely point buy.

(And I still look into the suggestions put forth: such as I found a harder setting of Alternity called Big Ideas, Grand Vision that looks promising)

Damage in Alternity is tracked via "Durability" which is analagous to wound levels in most other games. Essentially, there are several levels of health that start with "perfectly healthy" and end with "dead." You have a certain amount of, for lack of a better term, hp in each level before you fall to the next one. Each level has associated penalties as your character is slowly ground into mash by a cold and uncaring universe.

I've never seen Big Ideas before, but I can tell you that Alternity can be as "hard" as you want it to be, or as "soft" too. You, as the GM, just have to make it that way. You have to set up the game according to your own tastes. If you don't want the softer, somewhat fantastical elements in the mix, simply remove them. There's not much in there that can't be excised. Modular, I suppose, is the best way to look at it.

For your tastes, I would propose staying almost strictly with the base game and stripping out FX (essentially super powers), Psionics (yer basic mind over matter and mind over mind stuff), Aliens (you'd never miss them really), and the advanced tech that you don't want in the setting (probably everything after TL7).

After that, it's entirely up to you to set the stage, tone, and theme.

[Din Tempre]

Just thought I throw this out there:

http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/Game/BigIdeas/index.html

the link to the setting; basically just as you said, strips out the softer stuff. It isn't a major rule change.

How does the advancement system work in Alternity (and others suggestions not d20)?

[Tam_OConnor]

SErenity gives you points to buy away flaws, increase stats or just buy new advanages. You get the same amount to spend on skills. Really, though, I haven't noticed too much difference between greenhorns and Big Damn Heroes; one frag grenade later, and they're all just meat. 'Course, I use the chunky salsa rule for explosions...

[hamlet]

Just thought I throw this out there:

http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/Game/BigIdeas/index.html

the link to the setting; basically just as you said, strips out the softer stuff. It isn't a major rule change.

How does the advancement system work in Alternity (and others suggestions not d20)?

I'd have to open the books and read again (been a little while) but IIRC, the advancement system in Alternity works via an "advancement track" kind of a deal. For every "adventure" you complete, you get a check as well as a check for every major accomplishment or every "really cool thing" you manage to pull off. At each stage in your career, you have to earn a certain number of checks to advance to the "next level" (even though it's mostly a level-less system). When that happens, you gain a prescribed number of points that you can go and spend on skill improvements, new benefits, buying off disadvantages, etc. It works out very nicely because you can tune it to the rate of advancement to your preference.