Glad to see the comic is awesome again!

[cheesecake]

I actually stopped checking the comic daily, went to weekly, and today was my first check in over a month. I have to say, with the last 3 comics, it was actually funny and interesting. Plus it is starting to advance the story line(about time!)

I hope this trend keeps up!

[Innis Cabal]

couldnt agree more. I lurk on hte homebrew but i feel hte comic is picking back up. I find that over all....all the stuff with Elan(Who i always found to be a weak character) is once again on the high road from Meh.. to interesting.

[amatulic]

I actually stopped checking the comic daily, went to weekly, and today was my first check in over a month.
I do the same thing, now that it updates sporadically. Typically I check in every week or two.

I'm enjoying the story, but I was saddened to see Rich's announcement that he won't be upgrading the characters to 4.0. Now that I've skimmed through the new Player's Handbook, I can think of a rich trove of humorous situations arising from a 4.0 upgrade in OOTS, starting with the fact that D&D 4.0 has no bards.

-A

[Jayngfet]

Personally I liked Elan and therkla more than belkar vomiting on the only sane character.

[RTGoodman]

Well, even if you don't hang around here all day like some of us, you might try out the RSS feed if your browser supports it. I've got all my webcomics, including OotS, in my RSS feed and that lets me look quickly to see which have been updated.

[The Extinguisher]

What? The story has been advancing in every comic.

I don't see what you're getting at here.

[cheesecake]

What? The story has been advancing in every comic.

I don't see what you're getting at here.

I lost interest in the story a long time ago. After the fall of Azure City nothing much has happened. They are dragging around roys body, the elan and gang cant find haley, and what is team evil doing? torturing O'chul, and him and MiTD have an interesting relationship developing.

I'm getting at, IMO by now we should have seen the Link up of OOTS and the Xykon deciding to either go after the next gate or do something else.

But I really enjoyed Belkar throwing up in Celica's mouth. I did enjoy the Therkla parts as well, cute puppy love for our dashing swordsman.

[Ninja]

exactly Flame Master Axel... well at least i think the plot is moving... cuz i started reading like a week ago n just finished it all....
ots gonna be a torture now that i have to wait a wekk for 3 comics....

[SPoD]

What? The story has been advancing in every comic.

I don't see what you're getting at here.

What you're missing is that a lot of people think they can plot better than Rich, and think they know what "should" happen in his story. For example:


I'm getting at, IMO by now we should have seen the Link up of OOTS and the Xykon deciding to either go after the next gate or do something else.

[Ninja]

What you're missing is that a lot of people think they can plot better than Rich, and think they know what "should" happen in his story.

you have no idea how much those people are irtating to me.... mostly cuz they dont seem to realise that no matter what they say, it doesnt matter.... Rich has already planned how this is gonna end up.... n whats gonna happen... yeah he'll add somethings as he goes but no matter what they say.. it doesn't matter....

[Paladin29]

The only thing i see is a coherent storyline, you cannot split the group in dramatic circunstances (Roy´s death, Azure city fall, etc) and reunite the group 10 strips later without any argument. In addition the split of the group allows more character development (mainly Elan, Haley,V Roy... and god, even O-Chul). And for the jokes, i laugh all the way from azure city.

[NerfTW]

I think the worst "nothing is happening" point is still the trial itself. Two pages of solid text saying nothing, but establishing some key issues in the story.

He went to a daily update schedule just to keep from boring everyone during that sequence, since he had to info dump all that to keep the Order from just sort of wandering off on thier own ways afterwards.


I think the current attitude might have more to do with the formerly sporadic update schedule. That, and people really want the order back together.

Also, people have been complaining about the comic since the Dungeon of Dorukan storyline ended. It's just the way of plot based comics. We who enjoy it generally don't bother going into the threads complaining about it.

[RTGoodman]

ots gonna be a torture now that i have to wait a wekk for 3 comics....

Who's gonna tell him...? Anyone?

Okay, guess I will. Due to the Giant's health problems (more info somewhere in the News archives), we're currently in a state where the update frequency is something like, "Whenever the Giant feels like it, with a goal of 3 per week." He's done really well recently and has gotten a lot of comics out in a short amount of time, but sometimes it's less than that.

Don't let that discourage you, though - updates always come eventually, you just have to wait sometimes.

(If you're interested in reading what the Giant actually said, just go to the main page and look at the news items from 7/7/07 and 10/14/07.)

[Ninja]

you just killed all off my optimism.....

[snafu]

The only thing i see is a coherent storyline, you cannot split the group in dramatic circunstances (Roy´s death, Azure city fall, etc) and reunite the group 10 strips later without any argument.

There IS precedent for this sort of thing. I once read a fairly well-regarded fantasy novel in which the party split up just one third of the way through the story, and don't meet up again until it's all over. One of the halflings decided he wanted to solo the main quest, another one went after him, and everyone else went off and did side missions for a while.

But, you know, I can't remember what it was called. Totally slipped my mind. Anyone recognise the plot?

[Liwen]

That comic has always been awesome, I never stop enjoying it from the very first to this latest update. I'M part of the "coalition" that would like Roy back and the party finally reunited because I feel like it's been too long since the fall of azure city. Yet, what the Giant has given us is still hilarious and I'm not blaming him for not resolving this plot twist in a dozen comics or so. Like some have said before me, it gives oppurtunities for character devellopement, and the conclusion of the Azure city story arc would have been meaningless if the Order had patched up in a short time.

Beside, this whole thing makes the comic last longer, because the main plot is advancing at a slow pace. (one of the worst thing that will eventually happen is the conclusion of OotS, at which point there will be no more update. My favorite comic will be kinda death!)That lives more space for jokes and sub plots. And everybody knows a good story must have sub plots to be awesome.

[Paladin29]

There IS precedent for this sort of thing. I once read a fairly well-regarded fantasy novel in which the party split up just one third of the way through the story, and don't meet up again until it's all over. One of the halflings decided he wanted to solo the main quest, another one went after him, and everyone else went off and did side missions for a while.

But, you know, I can't remember what it was called. Totally slipped my mind. Anyone recognise the plot?

You are supporting my point with your example, so i don´t see the need of the sarcasm :smallconfused:

[Warren Dew]

What you're missing is that a lot of people think they can plot better than Rich, and think they know what "should" happen in his story. For example:

What he's missing is that different people have different preferences, and even different definitions for "the story". Some people, like the first couple of posters in this thread and myself, found most of the orc island arc boring and tedious. Like the original poster, I was also on the point of giving up on the comic until he switched back to Haley and things started happening again. It seemed to me like the comic was headed away from being about a D&D style game, and was becoming about a game where the gamesmaster railroads the story, oblivious to the fact that his players can't stand it.

Now, I certainly agree that Rich can write the story however he wants. If you've enjoyed that arc and the other slow parts since the fall of Azure City, more power to you - it's great that someone enjoyed them. Me, I'm much happier when loose ends are being tied up rather than being created, so count me with the ones who think "the comic is awesome again" and are glad for it!

[teratorn]

You are supporting my point with your example, so i don´t see the need of the sarcasm :smallconfused:

I didn't see the sarcasm as directed to you, but to the OP. But let's not be nasty, some of us are more impatient than others. In NCFTPB Miko only reaches the order after about 80 pages. Here it is taking longer because the action is split between the two teams. I wouldn't be surprised if they only joined in what would mark the end of this book. We are talking at about 90 pages more.

[Animefunkmaster]

Personally I liked Elan and therkla more than belkar vomiting on the only sane character.

+1

10 characters to post

[Innis Cabal]

What you're missing is that a lot of people think they can plot better than Rich, and think they know what "should" happen in his story. For example:

Here, ill fix that for you


What you're missing is that a lot of people miss the story they used to read, and want to share what they want to happen in his story, but know it wont.

Done and done.

[Paladin29]

I didn't see the sarcasm as directed to you, but to the OP. But let's not be nasty, some of us are more impatient than others. In NCFTPB Miko only reaches the order after about 80 pages. Here it is taking longer because the action is split between the two teams. I wouldn't be surprised if they only joined in what would mark the end of this book. We are talking at about 90 pages more.

I think you are right, but i need some abstraction... after all he was quoting me, not the OP (i guess now that he was quoting me to support their example)

[Callos_DeTerran]

Done and done.

That's odd, because from what I've seen the story is still the one that I love to read, it's only gotten more interesting since now there's more chance for tension to be mixed in with the humor since once the excitement gets high Rich can cut to another group. This isn't to say I don't want the OOTS to get back together, it should, but the fact it's taking the long road is making this break-up better in my idea. Plus you get to see how they are all falling apart (the OoTS anyway) without Roy, or in V, Elan, and Durkon's case with a Roy-replacement.

Like Spod said, the story isn't too your taste anymore so you feel the need to complain or say how you'd do it and think it'd make it better.

[NENAD]

I'm sure there are any number of other webcomics floating in cyberspace, and if none of those are to your liking, make your own.

[Innis Cabal]

That's odd, because from what I've seen the story is still the one that I love to read, it's only gotten more interesting since now there's more chance for tension to be mixed in with the humor since once the excitement gets high Rich can cut to another group. This isn't to say I don't want the OOTS to get back together, it should, but the fact it's taking the long road is making this break-up better in my idea. Plus you get to see how they are all falling apart (the OoTS anyway) without Roy, or in V, Elan, and Durkon's case with a Roy-replacement.

Like Spod said, the story isn't too your taste anymore so you feel the need to complain or say how you'd do it and think it'd make it better.

There is a difference between sharing ideas, and demanding things change in a stubborn pig headed and immature manner. Heck if we didnt do the former we'd not have a message board in the first place. But...since a few people just dont like people voicing a negative view on what they think is a good storyline(not claiming it still isnt good here) they are going to p*** and moan about the few that are happy with how things are now going and voicing their opinion about it...

Huh....

[Querzis]

I havent been there from the start but ever since I created my account, I saw this kind of thread pretty much every weeks. There were lots of people complaining about AC war, the second fight with the Linear guild and, well, pretty much every arc and often complains about a single strip. You can also be sure as hell that soon people will be tired of Haley trying to raise Roy and will want to go back to Elan and Therkla.

Now I got absolutely nothing against people liking somes arcs or some strips in the comic more then others. But when you say how you would write this story or when you criticize the Giant directly, it gets really annoying. Not only because its useless and petty but also because a good author gotta diversify his story. This comic is mainly a comedy but its not just that. Its mainly about D&D but its not just that either. You dont like the romantic parts or the character development? Ok then. I got no problem with that. But those part add depth to the story. Do you really want the Giant to dumb down his story just to satisfy you?

[Innis Cabal]

i havent seen anyone criticize the Giant directly, or the comic for that matter. One person has said what he'd like to see, in a pretty polite and well stated manner. An idea, if you don't like it, don't read the post and let that do want to discuss this...to discuss it.

[teratorn]

i havent seen anyone criticize the Giant directly, or the comic for that matter.

Well, the title of the thread is a bit provocative. But there is no problem in saying we don't like this or that. I can't stand Kazumi and Daigo and would like to seem them go away. I never liked the romance between Haley and Elan, but those things were big hits with other readers, and that is what makes OOTS a well balanced strip. On the other hand I love Therkla and for the first time I'm truly enjoying Elan.

[Innis Cabal]

i actually agree with you with Elan, he is comming into his own, and is ceasing to be....well the butt of all the jokes. One thing that is a problem(in my eyes) is the underplaying of Durkon......again. He is hardly a main cast member at this point imho. He gets a little screen time, and a few lines, and more so with V, but then again V was a major character through -much- of the early and mid story so its time that he/she takes a back seat

[AceOfFools]

I thought the entire heaven sequence was slow, and didn't find any of the jokes particularly amusing. They weren't as good as others I've seen Rich do.

Then came the sequence where we find out what Elan, Durkon, and Vaarsuvius were up to. Jokes picked up, but the main point of the sequence was an info dump explaining what had happened to them and a few others in the interim, and to introduce Threkla.

The sequence has a similar quality of "This is what's happening here to these characters... and some jokes." It also gave Celia, Haley and Tsukiko some chances for character development.

Then there was O-Chul's crowning moment of awesome. We also learn that Redcloak is playing Xykon, and willing to go to great lengths to do so, and that the growing rip in the snarls prison isn't going to consume the world. And it isn't exactly a funny segment.

Next came the orc arch in which we learn that Elan is a genre-savy, lovable goofball1, V has limited sympathy for others (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html) (excluding close personal friends), Daigo is a noble warrior capable of self-sacrafice (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0472.html) (pun intended), Durkon has a keen understanding of his teammates (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0205.html), that Threkla is a stalker with a crush on Elan despite working for the LE antagonist who desires his death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0509.html). None of which was exactly new.

If you don't follow Lost, and are annoyed by superheroes, the humor was fairly... tedious. For the record, we get ~2 "Elan is genre savy" jokes, a couple (~3-4) 4e references counting the bit about Threkla's parents, a "this comic is to wordy," a couple of Threkla is a stalker with a crush on the hot bard jokes, a bunch of Elan is an idiot/child jokes, and a couple of zanny gods jokes. Again, none of which is exactly new. So while I did enjoy the arch, it didn't leave a lasting impression the way the, say, all of the Linear Guild archs did.

So I would argue that this was a one of the poorer segments that Rich has done.

That is somewhat unfair to my favorite comic author, because Rich in a slump is still as good if not better to the sub-peak performance of any of the other comic story-teller I'm familiar with.
_______________
1. Paraphrasing something from the Dungeon Crawling Fools commentary.

The above is all my opinion, and therefore subject to being subjective... and I can't believe I just spent an hour doing this.

[teratorn]

One thing that is a problem(in my eyes) is the underplaying of Durkon......again. He is hardly a main cast member at this point imho. He gets a little screen time, and a few lines, and more so with V, but then again V was a major character through -much- of the early and mid story so its time that he/she takes a back seat

Ah, but we know that sooner or later Durkon will play a major role in the story. He's going to have a dramatic death and after-death arc (Origins spoiler):
He'll bring death and destruction to his people. You can't escape a prophecy.

[Innis Cabal]

Ah, but we know that sooner or later Durkon will play a major role in the story. He's going to have a dramatic death and after-death arc (Origins spoiler):
He'll bring death and destruction to his people. You can't escape a prophecy.

And thats exactly why his very little screen time now is frustrating......it really makes the whole /gasp he's going to die, really..wel....under-whelming...Oh no...a character who's impact on the story has been for the lastt 200-300 strips amounted to THOR SMASH is going to die in another 500-1,000 stripes..... /wait

[Warren Dew]

Do you really want the Giant to dumb down his story just to satisfy you?

I guess I kind of see story arcs about puppet gods as the "dumbing down" part.


One thing that is a problem(in my eyes) is the underplaying of Durkon......again. He is hardly a main cast member at this point imho.

Durkon is just an understated character - that's his personality. He's not one of these spotlight hogs that spills all his inner thoughts at the slightest provocation. I like that, and I think trying to focus too much on him would actually hurt his characterization.

He's definitely a main cast member. He's probably had more influence on what has happened than anyone but Roy - for example for his refusal to fight Miko, or his part in getting his half of the group focused after the ship left. He's not hyperactive like some of the other characters, but when he does make a decision, it has a big impact.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

Well, If I like a character, then I like the arc. Elan and O-chul are my two favorite characters so I really liked their arcs.

Elan does something dumb, gets into trouble, does something even dumber, and gets out of trouble. Some people like this, others don't. Same thing with Belkar.

My main problem with the comic is that you'll ten strips with Elan, then another ten with Haley and Belkar, then one with Roy in the afterlife, then a couple more with Durkon and V. I really miss seeing the OOTS interact with each other.

I really do not mean to tell the Giant how to write his own story. If I say this is something a storyline should go, I only mean that's how I want it to go. The Giant has proven that he is a excellent storyteller and no one else can write OOTS better than he can.

[dehro]

no, seriously, I love the Giant and all that jazz, seriously, I do, and I can't complain about the "intermission comics" so far... but it's about time Roy gets a chance to interact with the others and to be rezzed in the foreseable future... (that's what the oracle is for :smallbiggrin:)

also, the OoTS is becoming the order of the Sick (V is loosing it, the Belkster is puking all over the place.. Elan is loosing the "air of cool" his new swashbuckling level had granted him and his reverting to the intellectual acumen of an amoeba we all know and love him for...)..or is it the order of the Stuck? it's been a while now that they "live on" with the general purpose of regrouping...
I seriously hope that this last comic is the twist/turning point where things start to get back on track a bit..

[Morty]

Once more, I ask, because I'm genuinely curious: why do people so insist on Order getting back together? Does it really lower the quality of the comic? So far, it only provided good jokes and plot twists as well as helped the comic avoid stagnation and repetitiveness.

[Niknokitueu]

no, seriously, I love the Giant and all that jazz, seriously, I do, and I can't complain about the "intermission comics" so far... but it's about time Roy gets a chance to interact with the others and to be rezzed in the foreseable future... (that's what the oracle is for :smallbiggrin:)
Um, he has not had a chance to interact with the others. (Unless you count the Oracle as an 'other'.)

And as to being rezzed in the forseeable future, did you notice that the Oracle completely ignored Roy until after the party left? As if the Oracle did not want Roy to divulge plot-important information before it was due?

The hardest part of him being an Oracle is not so much being constrained by time's arrow, but having to observe the path it is taking.

(ie maybe letting the party contact Roy right now prevents them from doing something vital to the future of Existence in the future. So the Oracle prevents this contact, and hopefully helps the 'correct' future to appear.)

Who knows... maybe it is just that the Oracle is a git... :smallbiggrin:

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[King of Nowhere]

I loved the "Order of the Sick" and "Order of the Stuck" things.

[Ghastly Epigram]

Once more, I ask, because I'm genuinely curious: why do people so insist on Order getting back together? Does it really lower the quality of the comic? So far, it only provided good jokes and plot twists as well as helped the comic avoid stagnation and repetitiveness.

I suppose that some people just enjoyed it more when it was simpler (No offense intended, I am not trying to be condescending or anything). There is no doubting that OOTS has gotten more and more complex as the years have gone by. And when you initially fall in love with something for certain reasons, it can be a little jarring when it starts changing into something else.

And I can sort of see their point. Things are very fractured and we have all these groups running about doing their separate things and honestly not that much is actually happening. I mean, I personally do not have much of a problem with it, especially since it has been leading to some good character development (I always felt Roy hogged the spotlight too much anyway >_>). But I can see why some people do not like it.

It is all well and good to say that it is Rich's comic and he can do what he likes with and such, but the simple fact is that a fair amount of people are just not enjoying it as much these days. Like I said, not that much is really happening (And the stuff that is happening tends to not really go anywhere) and it might be nice for the pace to starting picking up. And that does not mean getting the party reunited immediately and chasing after Xykon or some such. Just for things to really get going again, and maybe see such an event on the horizon (It is their main goal, after all).

But hey, I cannot really speak for anyone else. And like I said, while I can somewhat understand and sympathize with these views, I personally am enjoying it just fine right now (And to be honest things have always been a little like this, haven't they?) I never stop being excited to see where my favorite comic will take me next. :smallcool:

[Roderick_BR]

Once more, I ask, because I'm genuinely curious: why do people so insist on Order getting back together? Does it really lower the quality of the comic? So far, it only provided good jokes and plot twists as well as helped the comic avoid stagnation and repetitiveness.
Because the fans like to see the group together?
How many times the Avengers or the Justice League split up, and everyone counted the hours for the group to get together again?

Jokes-wise or not, some people just want to see the group back together.

[myw]

First post, whee. :)

A friend turned me onto this comic back when the story arc was just before the whole Azure City battle royale, and I must confess I sat down and read through the ENTIRE archives within two nights. And this was during finals weeks when exams were threatening to kick my butt.

Part of the reason I loved OOTS was not only its humor but its great story arcs and writing. The characters are fun, and the story built and grew into something that was really cool.

I think the one thing that is lacking now is that, as some of the posters already said, the plot is kind of stagnating. The story of OOTS has reached that dangerous part that many fantasy series reach, in that the world they inhabit and the quest they're on has grown to be rather expansive. Right now we're contending with numerous subplots, potential new villains, TONS of unanswered questions, and the story just feels a little aimless as we juggle between 3 major "groups" of the OOTS fallout, not to mention the story of the villains who I felt always shared almost equal stage time with the actual OOTS. I for one am holding out faith that there's going to be a great overarching point where everything comes back full circle and we get many questions answered, and maybe even get to another point like the end of the Azure City battle where we can say "well that's the end to another great chapter".

Right now though, things are a little rougher and slower. I think the comic is in the equivalant to "The Two Towers" in LOTR series--the slower, more plodding part. :P

[VForVaarsuvius]

I think we'll still have to wait a bit more for the Order to start getting somewhere but yes, it is relieving to have the cliffhanger, even slowly, resolve...

[Kato]

I don't know either why there are so much complaints... I don't mind the order being split... They do good on their own and Roy has some people in the afterlife to argue with. It might be some time the plot wasn't advancing, but also that's not bad... there still were enough things too laugh at, and the new oracle arc is an advance in the story line, isn't it?

[[levi]]

I don't mind the fact that the Order has split up, but I'm also glad that Roy can finally talk to someone, which probably indicates a new plot turn...but I'm really not sure about all this talk that Roy is now going to be "rezzed" sometime soon, or that the Order of the Stick will get back together. It's a little pointless to theorize now, since there will be a comic #572 that will do a good deal of explaining. Plus, it's likely that something unexpected will happen and the plot won't go straight towards Roy's ressurection or the Order's regrouping.

[SPoD]

First, this is almost exactly the same topic as this one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83831). It would help everyone not repeat the same points if they were merged.


Because the fans like to see the group together?
How many times the Avengers or the Justice League split up, and everyone counted the hours for the group to get together again?

This is a horrible analogy, for one reason: almost all of the members of the JLA or Avengers have their own solo comic books in addition to the group book. Therefore, the group book's sole purpose is to show the interactions between them. In OOTS, characters only appear in this one comic series. In order to have a Vaarsuvius plot that doesn't involve Roy, or a Haley plot that doesn't involve Elan, they need to be separated.

[_fangirl]

I reckon that they should spend more time in action...

[mofabulous]

The plot is definately stagnating..

When was last time anyone even mentioned going after the next gate? Xycon is comedy gold and he hasnt made an appearance in some time which makes comic drag.

Roys been dead for months now and it's just seeming to take forever to get the group back together. Yes we've had some good moments at times, but it's not as enjoyable at the moment.

I've bought all 4 books that rich has put out and eagerly waiting for book #5 so I can READ what rich's DESIGN on the comic is going into all this. He reveals alot in the books about his storyline.

But ya rich, the comics getting stagnant... Get the gang back together already man :smalltongue:

[Shatteredtower]

Once more, I ask, because I'm genuinely curious: why do people so insist on Order getting back together?It's a lot like a sentence that, for various reasons, wanders from its origins into terrain that, exotic and interesting as it might be -- Atlantis in New York City, for example, though not the Marvel universe version, where such things would hardly surprise anyone -- isn't going to get your lawn watered, which may be for the best, what with fresh water shortages becoming more of an issue each day, as you're now miles from home without any traveler's insurance or even a towel, like Douglas Adams suggested that you carry in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (and let's not get into an argument about whether the radio play was better than the book, okay, because I really have to get to work now), though now that I think about it, you might be okay if you've got a good map, or maybe a laptop with a good battery and a reliable internet connection that can travel with you, though it seems like such a hassle to carry one of those while you're out walking, or maybe on a motorbike, travelling the high mountains of...

In short, it gets to be irritating when a writer takes too long to get to a point. This might not be too bad for one or two, but when the plot threads start dangling like the remains of a tapestry at kitten farm, a lot of people get tired of it. That's one reason a certain X-Man writer wound up with the nickname of Claremontezuma.

Unlike Mike Myers (or a lot of other SNL alumni), the Giant is very good at not beating a joke to death. His pacing might, in some opinions, be leaving some nasty bruises on his main plots, however. There's only so long you can dance around a point before you start to lose audience interest, no matter how well you dress it up.

[Warren Dew]

I think part of the reason a lot of people like the group being together is that when the group is split into, say, three parts, it takes three times as many comics to make it through the same number of major events. Some people are more interested in the major events (e.g., gate battles) than events that mostly only affect a few characters.

[SPoD]

Some people are more interested in the major events (e.g., gate battles) than events that mostly only affect a few characters.

And I (and probably others) don't understand why.

If you are interested in the characters, you should be interested in events that affect only a few of them at a time anyway.

And if you are not interested in the characters, why are you reading the strip at all? Go find a work of fiction where you ARE interested in the characters.

[Warren Dew]

And I (and probably others) don't understand why.

If you are interested in the characters, you should be interested in events that affect only a few of them at a time anyway.

And if you are not interested in the characters, why are you reading the strip at all? Go find a work of fiction where you ARE interested in the characters.

Speaking only for myself and oversimplifying, I'm not that interested in the individual characters, but I am interested in the world.

[dehro]

Once more, I ask, because I'm genuinely curious: why do people so insist on Order getting back together? Does it really lower the quality of the comic? So far, it only provided good jokes and plot twists as well as helped the comic avoid stagnation and repetitiveness.

it's probably a silly answer, but it's called order of the stick, not order of ther randomly scattered people..
on a more serious note, it just works better (for me) when they play of against each other...
then again, this is not entirely true..as I said, I love the comic to bits, even now and even when the plot really seemed stuck for a while on things that, I'm sure, will be brought to completition later on...
I agree that separating them has provided an escape from stagnation and repetitiveness..sadly, now we are getting to these same results, but from the other side
however..the occasional "side quest" works quite well, provided the main plot still progresses in some sort of fashion..I am all in favour of character development, but what we have now is at least 3 different "side bits", and a set of characters each with their own agenda none of which (apparently) contain the snarl, the gates and xykon anymore, and no progress whatsoever on the main theme
...and there are characters that really could do with a bit of screen time...but that's just nitpicking and expressing my preferences (you don't have to agree, it's just the way I like it)
and yeah..I guess I just like to see them together

[AceOfFools]

And I (and probably others) don't understand why.

If you are interested in the characters, you should be interested in events that affect only a few of them at a time anyway.

And if you are not interested in the characters, why are you reading the strip at all? Go find a work of fiction where you ARE interested in the characters.

The reason I didn't like some of the newer stuff as much was it didn't establish anything we didn't already know. There were character interactions, but not really development.

When the gang gets back together, we get to see the characters react to the changes the others have gone through by their forced separation, and whatever the individuals had left unfinished, such as :vaarsuvius:'s feud with :belkar:, etc.

I personally don't think there should be any rushing of the story to get the group back together. As this recent BURST of strips shows, there is plenty of new character development that doesn't require a reunion.

That and the more I learn about (and see references to) Marvel & DC comics, the less they entertain me, which really hurt the orc Island arch.

[An Enemy Spy]

The reason that this part seems so awful now is that we are smack in the middle of it. Once this whole thing is resolved it will far more enjoyable because we can just keep going to the next comic till we get to the end. Have some patience guys. The Giant knows when this will end and separation makes for really good plots

[The Extinguisher]

The inconsistency. It burns.

A character gets a lot of screen time, you complain they have too much.
A character missed a few comics, and then they're "gone from the strip"
The comic focuses on comedy. It doesn't advance the plot.
The comic focuses on drama. Not funny enough.
The comic focuses on action. It's too drawn out.
The comic focuses on plot development. There's no excitment.
The comic is spending too long in a certian spot.
The comic is jumping around too much.
etc
etc
etc

Make up your minds!

[Paladin29]

The inconsistency. It burns.

A character gets a lot of screen time, you complain they have too much.
A character missed a few comics, and then they're "gone from the strip"
The comic focuses on comedy. It doesn't advance the plot.
The comic focuses on drama. Not funny enough.
The comic focuses on action. It's too drawn out.
The comic focuses on plot development. There's no excitment.
The comic is spending too long in a certian spot.
The comic is jumping around too much.
etc
etc
etc

Make up your minds!


I can´t express it better... I owe you a beer, sir. :smallsmile:

[Arkenputtyknife]

What… so now we're all supposed to be of one mind? I have a clue for you: it takes all sorts to make a fan base. Personally I take OotS as it comes, but if one person wants to complain that the story is moving too slowly and another that it's moving too fast, or [insert mutually exclusive personal gripes of choice], I certainly wouldn't want to stop them.

[dehro]

The inconsistency. It burns.

A character gets a lot of screen time, you complain they have too much.
A character missed a few comics, and then they're "gone from the strip"
The comic focuses on comedy. It doesn't advance the plot.
The comic focuses on drama. Not funny enough.
The comic focuses on action. It's too drawn out.
The comic focuses on plot development. There's no excitment.
The comic is spending too long in a certian spot.
The comic is jumping around too much.
etc
etc
etc

Make up your minds!

you just said it...extremes...why not a balanced mix as have had for hunderds of issues?
but I think you missed the fact that I'm not complaining about any of the facts you listed...I thoroughly enjoyed almost every issue seen so far..I'm just happy that there seems to be a chance for advancement of the general plot, that's all.

[David Argall]

why do people so insist on Order getting back together? Does it really lower the quality of the comic? So far, it only provided good jokes and plot twists as well as helped the comic avoid stagnation and repetitiveness.

When was the last time we had a V-Belkar interaction? Getting Elan away from Haley long enough for an "interesting" reunion is fine, but that takes way less than 100 strips. Roy has little ability to interact with anybody. Our missing people are missed.

[The Hop Goblin]

I'm sure there are any number of other webcomics floating in cyberspace, and if none of those are to your liking, make your own.

A voice of reason amidst a web-forum? Bravo good sir/ma'am. I salute you and welcome you into a surprisingly small brotherhood.

[Innis Cabal]

What… so now we're all supposed to be of one mind? I have a clue for you: it takes all sorts to make a fan base. Personally I take OotS as it comes, but if one person wants to complain that the story is moving too slowly and another that it's moving too fast, or [insert mutually exclusive personal gripes of choice], I certainly wouldn't want to stop them.

Here's the voice of reason, and as i've said before, if you don't agree with the topic, why post in it?

[Weiser_Cain]

What you're missing is that a lot of people think they can plot better than Rich, and think they know what "should" happen in his story. For example:

I probably can plot better than rich, but this is his story and it's free so no complaints.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

I think people forget that not everyone has the same opinion on everything.

Some people think Elan's cute, while others find him annoying. Some people love Belkar and others want him gone for good. Some people didn't think the "Lost" jokes were all that funny. Others were disgusted with Belkar vomiting on everyone.

And don't get me started on Miko. :smalltongue:

As long as posters don't insult the Giant or each other, I really don't see the problem with criticizing comics they don't like or find funny.

There's a lot more praise for the comic than criticism, so I guess the Giant's doing something right. :smallsmile:

[Innis Cabal]

You can't grow without a little criticism. Not that i think i can plot it better, thats not really my place to say, i enjoy the story but i just feel the last couple arcs, the heaven one, the resistance...well....they were ok(better then any other web comic) but stilll just lacking someplace

[Selene]

The comic is always awesome. :smalltongue: Except, I miss Roy. (Alive Roy. Obviously I don't miss ghost Roy.)

[Fish]

If you are interested in the characters, you should be interested in events that affect only a few of them at a time anyway.
Don't tell me what I should be interested in.

And yes, I do think there are some problems with the plotting and character development of the strip in the last ... oh, 100 strips. I do think that I could have written it better, and that's why I'm complaining. Arrogance, you say? Maybe. But answer this:

#1. The major characters, the protagonists, are no longer driving the plot. That's what fiction is, man: it is a depiction of the choices of the protagonist, illustrated over time. But they're not choosing anything. Durkon, V and Elan are taking orders from Hinjo, and Hinjo isn't interested in the quest to save the world; Roy is incapable of saving the world; and Haley wouldn't even get off her duff and leave Azure City to save the world until a minor character pushed her into it. When you have to get a minor NPC like Celia to push the plot back on track, that's a sign that your protagonists are no longer doing their job. It seems he's trying to set Celia up to be a protagonist herself, to fill the spot vacated by Miko now that Miko's no longer a viable partner for Roy, but this particular method comes at the expense of my respect for the other characters. It just makes Celia look like a Mary Sue — she's the new character being run by the DM's girlfriend, who has magic powers the others have not.

#2. I have also lost all respect for the Snarl, because the protagonists don't seem to give a damn about it. Not even the antagonists seem interested. We have invested a great deal of effort in the exposition about the Snarl, the threat to the entire world, and so forth. To focus on a relatively minor obstacle now — that is, the recapture of a single city and the freeing of a handful of refugees — seems like a step backward. Sure, Tolkien divided up the Fellowship in The Lord of the Rings but one of the characters always had his eye on the prize: Frodo (and Sam) were always headed toward Mount Doom with the One Ring. (Meanwhile, Gandalf and Boromir were dead; Merry and Pippin were carried off to Isengard to confront Saruman; Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli were trying to rescue Merry and Pippin. Sounds a lot like this plot, actually: one in heaven, one group going to the wizard's tower, one group trying to save the other group. What's missing? Nobody has their eyes on the prize.) So much to-do was made of the ultimate threat of the Snarl, it seems like the longer we lose track of that, the more we diminish the real threat and focus on the inconsequential. What's a single city when the whole world is about to be destroyed?

#3. Kubota is not gripping as a villain, and scarcely a replacement for Xykon. He lacks the charisma of Nale, and the cruelty of Xykon, and his goals are rather uninspired. I don't care if Azure City gets recaptured by Hinjo or not — that can wait until later — so I'm militantly indifferent whether Kubota's machinations to seize the throne amount to anything. Who cares? Abdicate, let him have the damn city, there are bigger fish to fry.

I have other objections to the recent developments in the story, but none this glaring. The plot has lost its oomph, and the villains have lost their zing. The heroes need a serious dose of plot-viagra to get their get-up-and-go again, because it's been a long time since any of them did anything of consequence.

Flame me if you like; I expect I'll get a chorus of "write something yourself, then!" (I do already) and an echo of "Rich is a genius and can do no wrong!" Don't care; won't change my mind on this.

[Paladin29]

Don't tell me what I should be interested in.

And yes, I do think there are some problems with the plotting and character development of the strip in the last ... oh, 100 strips. I do think that I could have written it better, and that's why I'm complaining. Arrogance, you say? Maybe. But answer this:

#1. The major characters, the protagonists, are no longer driving the plot. That's what fiction is, man: it is a depiction of the choices of the protagonist, illustrated over time. But they're not choosing anything. Durkon, V and Elan are taking orders from Hinjo, and Hinjo isn't interested in the quest to save the world; Roy is incapable of saving the world; and Haley wouldn't even get off her duff and leave Azure City to save the world until a minor character pushed her into it. When you have to get a minor NPC like Celia to push the plot back on track, that's a sign that your protagonists are no longer doing their job. It seems he's trying to set Celia up to be a protagonist herself, to fill the spot vacated by Miko now that Miko's no longer a viable partner for Roy, but this particular method comes at the expense of my respect for the other characters. It just makes Celia look like a Mary Sue — she's the new character being run by the DM's girlfriend, who has magic powers the others have not.

#2. I have also lost all respect for the Snarl, because the protagonists don't seem to give a damn about it. Not even the antagonists seem interested. We have invested a great deal of effort in the exposition about the Snarl, the threat to the entire world, and so forth. To focus on a relatively minor obstacle now — that is, the recapture of a single city and the freeing of a handful of refugees — seems like a step backward. Sure, Tolkien divided up the Fellowship in The Lord of the Rings but one of the characters always had his eye on the prize: Frodo (and Sam) were always headed toward Mount Doom with the One Ring. (Meanwhile, Gandalf and Boromir were dead; Merry and Pippin were carried off to Isengard to confront Saruman; Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli were trying to rescue Merry and Pippin. Sounds a lot like this plot, actually: one in heaven, one group going to the wizard's tower, one group trying to save the other group. What's missing? Nobody has their eyes on the prize.) So much to-do was made of the ultimate threat of the Snarl, it seems like the longer we lose track of that, the more we diminish the real threat and focus on the inconsequential. What's a single city when the whole world is about to be destroyed?

#3. Kubota is not gripping as a villain, and scarcely a replacement for Xykon. He lacks the charisma of Nale, and the cruelty of Xykon, and his goals are rather uninspired. I don't care if Azure City gets recaptured by Hinjo or not — that can wait until later — so I'm militantly indifferent whether Kubota's machinations to seize the throne amount to anything. Who cares? Abdicate, let him have the damn city, there are bigger fish to fry.

I have other objections to the recent developments in the story, but none this glaring. The plot has lost its oomph, and the villains have lost their zing. The heroes need a serious dose of plot-viagra to get their get-up-and-go again, because it's been a long time since any of them did anything of consequence.

Flame me if you like; I expect I'll get a chorus of "write something yourself, then!" (I do already) and an echo of "Rich is a genius and can do no wrong!" Don't care; won't change my mind on this.

1)I get your example of the Lord of the rings: Sam (non-protagonist) pulling the plot all the way to Mount Doom.

2) The Snarl isn´t the menace, his freedom is the menace, and it can´t be free until the evil team discover anything about the other gates. After the fall of AC, we reach to a low point in the plot with a split of the group, it takes time to reunite them if you want a coherent storyline (you aren´t reading a book, you must wait for the next strip here and i understand that it could be slow for somebody).

3) I like Kubota, he is a more wordly villain than Xykon, RC or Nale. He only wants Hinjo´s throne, no mad plans to destroy the world, no need to govern the world, no overcomplicated plans to kill his twin brother... A political villain who use ninjas and subtle deceit. But it is a thing of personal preferences...

You can answer me if you want, I DO care about your opinion.

[Zorn]

I've seen it said before in other threads, but I'll say it again:

I think that people wanting the comic to move more quickly are suffering from a bit of nostalgia. You can read through the entire 572 comics in a matter of hours, and to you even the strips that were extremely slow at the time appear lightning fast now. In other words, all 571 strips might be slower than the one we have now, and yet you wouldn't notice because there is always that "next comic" button waiting to be clicked.

Things seem tedious and boring to you now, but 50 strips later you'll be looking back at the current story arc and wondering why the new comics aren't as quick as these ones are. If you're feeling disappointed because you want to push through any of the things Flame Master Axel mentioned, remember that a good writer adds variety, and that a webcomic, in particular, will automatically mean that there is some kind of wait. A webcomic is a lot like watching live television; there just isn't any way to skip that annoying commercial no matter how much you'd like toIf you really can't wait around for the Giant to get back to whatever it is you enjoy, I'm not sure a webcomic is the best thing to invest your time in.

[AceOfFools]

The major characters, the protagonists, are no longer driving the plot. That's what fiction is, man: it is a depiction of the choices of the protagonist, illustrated over time.

Not really true. Fiction is about the resolution of conflicts, the reactions of the characters to the situations you find themselves in, and in general the way people interact with the world around them.

I think a very interesting story could be written (if it hasn't already been) about the absence of choice, where the protagonist spend the entire story doing what he is told.

Any story resolved by deus ex machina throws protagonist choice out of the story in the end. (I'm not going to argue that this is good fiction, but apparently some people enjoy it.)

While I'm at it, this isn't even true of the comic. V is ignoring Hinjo's orders and goals to try and get the party back together. Haley's goal throughout has been to reunite the group and get to the next gate. She made the best decision she could with the information at hand, and didn't try to deviate from her plan until the situation changed, significantly. Choosing to stick to the best course of action available isn't exactly a strange choice for people to make.

Finally, choosing to help the people of Azure city is a choice that the characters are making that is shaping the future. Protagonists can underestimate their opponents and even make stupid choices without them ceasing to be choices.

Even more off topic:
In point of fact, I found the parts in LotR focusing on Sam and Frodo to be extremely boring, and generally adding little to the story. Other characters filled the "eye on the prize" better by building their plans around how best to to give Frodo a chance to reach the mountain.

[Warren Dew]

Even more off topic:
In point of fact, I found the parts in LotR focusing on Sam and Frodo to be extremely boring, and generally adding little to the story. Other characters filled the "eye on the prize" better by building their plans around how best to to give Frodo a chance to reach the mountain.

They do at least provide a focus for driving the plot. That's arguably another difference: the other characters are trying to help that drive.

Your arguments about Vaarsuvius and Haley are valid. The issue, though, is that Frodo could succeed or fail, reaching a resolution with or without the other characters; that's not true for Roy in his present state. There's no obvious way for him to succeed, and he can't even fail unless you regard running out of time as failing. If that's the interpretation, the next cut should probably be to Xykon & co. already in position to assault Girard's gate.

[Selene]

Even more off topic:
In point of fact, I found the parts in LotR focusing on Sam and Frodo to be extremely boring, and generally adding little to the story.

Wow, really? Even Shelob? And Frodo's subsequent capture? And Faramir? I really liked those parts. Guess it's good they were split up then, so everybody had something to enjoy.

[SPoD]

Flame me if you like

I wish people who express criticism of the strip would stop saying things like this, as if they're some terribly daring martyr with the courage to stand up and write their controversial opinions on a message board. You know, like the other two dozen people who have expressed the same viewpoint on this thread alone.


The issue, though, is that Frodo could succeed or fail, reaching a resolution with or without the other characters; that's not true for Roy in his present state. There's no obvious way for him to succeed, and he can't even fail unless you regard running out of time as failing. If that's the interpretation, the next cut should probably be to Xykon & co. already in position to assault Girard's gate.

Roy is dead. He's not supposed to have the chance to succeed. He already failed. His punishment for failure is that he can't influence the plot. The only reason we're still seeing him is because he's funny and he can get some character development in. He's totally at the mercy of his friends now, only to learn that his friends can't get anything accomplished without him kicking them in the butt regularly. The lack of motivation that some people are mentioning is the entire point of this story! The OOTS aren't motivated without Roy, or at least not motivated in the right directions. It's not in their personalities.

Only by getting Roy back will the Order ever get their heads screwed on straight. Celia, in this case, is like "Mini-Roy"; the fact that they are romantically compatible makes them have similar enough personalities for her to serve his role of motivating them. Only they don't really listen to her.

People complain that death has no meaning in D&D, but it does: while you're dead, you don't get to drive the plot anymore. Roy is learning this firsthand.

[Warren Dew]

Roy is dead.

Exactly. Roy is dead. Frodo was not. Thus, the party split in LoTR is not a reasonable parallel to the party split in OOTS.

[Innis Cabal]

I wish people who express criticism of the strip would stop saying things like this, as if they're some terribly daring martyr with the courage to stand up and write their controversial opinions on a message board. You know, like the other two dozen people who have expressed the same viewpoint on this thread alone.


I think people will stop acting like they are worried they will get flammed when things like

[quote]the story isn't too your taste anymore so you feel the need to complain or say how you'd do it and think it'd make it better.

arn't said when threads like these appear, just a guess. Truth is, its not flamming, but it is irritating to see posts like this when they are off topic and really not needed.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

When was the last time we had a V-Belkar interaction?
By the same token—before this, how often was there Haley-Belkar interaction? One of the things I notice about the way the group was separated is that each character is stuck with companions they didn't interact much with before the split.

Roy interacted with everyone. So he's dead.
Haley interacted primarily with V, and after her confession, Elan. So just keep her with Belkar.
V interacted primarily with Haley, Belkar, and Roy. So he can only be Durkon and Elan.
Belkar was focused on antagonizing Roy and V. Roy's dead, and V's gone.
Elan's primary relationships are with Haley and Roy, with occasional antics alongside Belkar. So let's keep him away from those three.
Durkon was attached pretty much only to Roy. So he could be with any group, really.

So in the end, this is largely a device for forcing the characters develop relationships with group members they didn't relate to before. Yeah, this is a story about a team, so it's important to have the team all relate in some way to every other member, not just those they have the best rapport with. In short, the whole thing is to set up, not further interaction with old friends after a reunion, but whole new interaction with people that weren't much more than just "comrades in arms" before.

Yeah, upon reflection, there hasn't been a lot of plot movement. This arc has been almost focused entirely on character development. But, as fish said, plot is based in part on character choice, and these developments will affect the characters' future choices. Yeah, they're a bit too preoccupied with other matters to make many important choices right now, but the ultimate thrust is that once they get back to decision making, they'll go about it in entirely new ways, and, having been with the characters as they developed, we'll understand why these characters have changed.

Does this take a long-ass time? Yeah. As was pointed out earlier, more groups means the story will take longer. And for the development to be meaningful, each group will have to go through several trials on their own, otherwise nothing worthwhile will come of it. Such would be not much different than carpooling with some random guy from your office's accounting department and never disussing more than the weather.


Next came the orc arch in which we learn that Elan is a genre-savy, lovable goofball1, V has limited sympathy for others (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html) (excluding close personal friends), Daigo is a noble warrior capable of self-sacrafice (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0472.html) (pun intended), Durkon has a keen understanding of his teammates (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0205.html), that Threkla is a stalker with a crush on Elan despite working for the LE antagonist who desires his death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0509.html). None of which was exactly new.
I'd say what was important in termse of being "exactly new" is we see how far Therkla will take her obsession with Elan. Before this arc, we had no evidence that her infatuation was true obsession rather than just a simple crush. We did not know she would full-out betray her master to rescue Elan. We also find out she's got the brains to weasel her way out of the consequences of said betrayal. Before this arc, we could ask ourselves, "When Kubota makes his final move, forcing Therkla to decide on her final loyalty, will she choose honor and stick with her master, or infatuation and save the life of her crush?" We now know the answer, and that is bound to make a difference.

Yeah, even in terms of what I said in relationships, there wasn't much development for the Order itself in that one. It was really Therkla's story. Only thing I can say about development for the Order is that we are actually seeing Durkon loose his cool. Doesn't seem like it will lead to much for the time being. I think Durkon is made of strong enough stuff that it will take quite a bit of wear before anything extreme happens.

[AceOfFools]

I'd say what was important in termse of being "exactly new" is we see how far Therkla will take her obsession with Elan. Before this arc, we had no evidence that her infatuation was true obsession rather than just a simple crush. We did not know she would full-out betray her master to rescue Elan. We also find out she's got the brains to weasel her way out of the consequences of said betrayal. Before this arc, we could ask ourselves, "When Kubota makes his final move, forcing Therkla to decide on her final loyalty, will she choose honor and stick with her master, or infatuation and save the life of her crush?" We now know the answer, and that is bound to make a difference.

Point. I hadn't considered that.

Although, I'm not convinced how willing she'll be to try that **** again. It may just be my considerable bias against the half-orc, but I wouldn't put it past her to find or look for some other human with a high cha to obsess over after the current one is gone.

Off topicSam saving Frodo from the orc tower was the only part subsequent to the breaking of the fellowship that featured Frodo and Sam in such a way that I was interested (stupid f-ing spider). The Fellowship is easily my favorite of the trilogy.

I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you. I don't particularly like Tolkien as author, though he gets mad props for originality and etymology.

[teratorn]

As Shhalahr Windrider nicely puts it, we are seeing fractures in the way the characters relate, and this bad blood will play a role in what's to come, a litle bit like the tensions in the order of the Scribble, which must have existed long before they split after securing the rifts. When the story is completed we may in fact find this arc a very important one.

The thing which really bothers me is that I don't find the NPCs in this arc that interesting, with the exception of Therkla and O-chul. Kubota, the imp, Daigo, Kazumi, Celia don't pick my interest as Samantha, Miko, Chief, Hinjo and Shojo did in the previous arcs. But that can change, in particular if a certain assassin known to Haley comes into play.

[EndlessWrath]

WARNING!: THIS POST CONTAINS PLOT SPOILERS

I absolutely love this comic. Yes... it has its high moments and its low moments but I have stuck to it.
-yes the island scene was dragging, but i still like it, its funny and good plot exposition.
-:belkar:I love Belkar. OH NO!!! ORACLE SAID HE'S GONNA DIE SOON!!!:belkar: :smalleek::smalleek:
-:roy:I am definitely love Roy. I just hope someone can hear him soon... well..someone who doesn't hate him? :roy:
The characters are all great and it altogether is fun.

Oh... one more thing.
A bunch of people are taking offense to people criticizing the comic. Don't.
The giant hasn't come here and said anything or said he was insulted.. nor has he made known any awareness of such feelings.

in fact, if he would get offended...why let such a forum exist?

if the creator of the comic isn't getting as worked up about it then you guys (and gals) shouldn't either. Just enjoy it the comic for what its worth...as long as you don't go flaming anyone or the giant...then its all good.

~people need to chillax.~

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Although, I'm not convinced how willing she'll be to try that **** again. It may just be my considerable bias against the half-orc, but I wouldn't put it past her to find or look for some other human with a high cha to obsess over after the current one is gone.
If she becomes obsessed so easily, I'm sure she'll be able to find a new object of desire as well. But she's also coming off as the type that won't let go of her current obsession too easily. I'm betting if something forces her to let Elan go—something short of her own death that is—she'll probably have a total emotional breakdown and be depressed anywhere from a week to however long it takes for a new object of obsession to cross her path.

[Warren Dew]

The thing which really bothers me is that I don't find the NPCs in this arc that interesting, with the exception of Therkla and O-chul. Kubota, the imp, Daigo, Kazumi, Celia don't pick my interest as Samantha, Miko, Chief, Hinjo and Shojo did in the previous arcs. But that can change, in particular if a certain assassin known to Haley comes into play.

I'd certainly agree that Miko, Hinjo, and Shojo were more engaging characters than any of the current NPCs. That said, of the current NPCs, I think Celia and Daigo are serving an important role keeping the PCs on track.

The oracle arc inspired me to go out and buy a couple of the books, even though it seems to have paused now.

[AceOfFools]

I'd like to revise my previous post.

Threkla puts Elan above her mission goals in 506 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0506.html), so it's not entirely new information.

[thereaper]

Don't forget, many of the current NPCs still have developing to do. It was quite a while before Shojo became interesting, after all. In fact, one of the things I find I like (now that I think about it) is that many of the NPCs now are from the previous arc and have slowly been developing into more important characters. Kazumi and Daigo are the best example of this.

Mr Scruffy, on the other hand, was always awesome. :smallwink:

[Shhalahr Windrider]

But not to the extent she did in this arc. She turned on a troll ally to convince Elan she was a friend, yes, but in the long run it would not have necessarily sacrificed the entire mission. She could perfectly well bide her time and kill Hinjo later, in a matter that wouldn't incriminate herself in Elan's eyes. In other words, it was just a minor setback—the mission could have still been completed if she hadn't later been knocked overboard. She felt she could have it both ways—get Elan and complete the mission.

But this time, in sticking with Elan on the island, she deliberately sacrificed all chance of completing the assigned mission. Although she made another attempt to complete the mission without losing any chance of being with Elan, she found her back to the wall. Once the imp charmed the orcs, there was no way out that would allow Therkla to carry through both her goals. She had to choose one or the other, and she chose Elan.

[Zorn]

Don't forget, many of the current NPCs still have developing to do. It was quite a while before Shojo became interesting, after all. In fact, one of the things I find I like (now that I think about it) is that many of the NPCs now are from the previous arc and have slowly been developing into more important characters. Kazumi and Daigo are the best example of this.

Mr Scruffy, on the other hand, was always awesome. :smallwink:

That's a good point. Every character needs to develop a bit. Look back at the very first strips. Do any of the OotS members seem particularly interesting at that point? Probably not. There hasn't been enough development to reveal traits we want to know more about. O'chul's first appearance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0403.html), for example, does not present him as a particularly enthralling character. It was not until he encountered the MitD a good 60 strips later (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0463.html) that people began to pay attention to him. Simply put, an author cannot make a character interesting without revealing a bit about him or her, and that is exactly what the Giant is doing right now: covering the character development now so that the comic can remain fast-paced in the future.

There are, of course, a few characters that instantly capture the audience's attention. This is because they're stock characters; the audience already knows something about him or her because a similar character appeared in other works of art. Look at the police chief. If I recall correctly, a fanbase popped up for him almost immediately. Doesn't he look familiar though? If you've ever watched the TV show Monk, you might notice the similarities he has with Captain Leland Stottlemeyer, and that's just one example. The Giant's use of stock characters isn't a bad thing; it simply allows him to present amusing characters without developing them first. A stock character can only be used so much before his or her material becomes repetitive, however, and the need for more complicated and longer-lasting characters appears.


Wow, really? Even Shelob? And Frodo's subsequent capture? And Faramir? I really liked those parts. Guess it's good they were split up then, so everybody had something to enjoy.

Oh, I agree. The Two Towers, in which the party was split into not two but three factions for the entire book (well almost, the reunion at Isengard was very close to the end), was easily my favorite book of the three. Admittedly, that's more because it lacked party scenes than anything else. :smallredface:



The Fellowship is easily my favorite of the trilogy.

I know this is off topic, but I have to ask: Since you dislike slow moving plots, what did you find particularly interesting in, say, the scenes at Bag End or Rivendell. If I recall correctly, and I do apologize ahead of time if I'm offending anyone, both of those scenes filled entire chapters with lots of drawn out descriptions and almost nothing actually happening.

[Warren Dew]

It was quite a while before Shojo became interesting, after all.

I found him interesting when he first appeared. I mean, old guy apparently taking orders from a sleeping cat? What's not to like?

Similarly, I already find the oracle's next visitor to be interesting, despite not having actually appeared yet. I think some character concepts are inherently interesting. Others are doomed to be niche players no matter how much time is spent on trying to develop their characters.

[dworkin]

Re: Durkon.

I always thought his 'low screen time' was the joke. He's a cleric, and no-one ever pays attention to the cleric unless they need healing or de-cursing.

[Ghastly Epigram]

Re: Durkon.

I always thought his 'low screen time' was the joke. He's a cleric, and no-one ever pays attention to the cleric unless they need healing or de-cursing.

That is all well and good, but when he is one of the six main protagonists with 200+ strips, it is a joke that starts to wear a bit thin. :smallsigh:

[Drraagh]

I was thinking about this for a bit and where I sit on this is the following. The split is good from a literary design point, the split is bad from a deviation from standard.

I have just started DMing a couple campaigns, one in real life and a second online. With the online one, I can throw out solo adventures, small groups and then later get the main party together quite easily, so that they can tell their stories and go. I could try the same in tabletop, but what happens is the people who don't play feel left out and wonder when we get back to them, whether they're not in the session at hand or they're just waiting for their turn while I focus on another player. (Anyone remember: "Ogres? I've got a +9 sword of ogre slaying")

As for the main campaign not being focused on; look at any RPG video game and even some tabletop games. Baldur's Gate, you're on a quest to stop BBEG, but you're running around solving small problems for people. Oblivion, you're trying to stop the takeover of the world, but you could instead spend some time helping out these farmers reclaim their home.

In a book, in a movie, you've got a set amount of time to get from beginning to end, a set number of pages. You know when you make a movie you've got 2-3 hours to introduce your characters, give them a few challenges and then the major conflict. Sequels and such help, sure, but again, it's just adding on a few hours (if you acknowledge that the movie will not be completely standalone. Star Wars was not, Indiana Jones was).

In an online comic, a video game, or table top session, your characters can only hold focus on the things that interest them for so long before wanting to do something else. Some video games add minigames, like say you're playing a game like Final Fantasy. You get bored of the killing enemies, hey, here's a motorcycle game, or a snowboard minigame. You're playing a combat game, like the Star Wars Revenge of the Sith game, there were turrets and such in there. It is a way to keep people interested without them getting up and going to do something else for a while instead.

Tabletop games have miniquests as well. I am adding an island to my world called 'The Mushroom Kingdom' which is a D&D 'conversion' of Mario Brothers, inspired by a name I saw one day at work. 'Demario Peoples'. The Mario Peoples. They are in a war against the Bowser Empire. I can go into more detail later, but the point is, they get a little bored of the quests they're on and they end up helping The Mario Peoples in their war to gain independance from the Bowser Empire.

The webcomic is trying to do the same here. If it was all about the sensational Order of the Stick, all the time. Sure, the jokes would still be there, but it would be the same thing every time. Each, and every time, it would be like a sitcom. This is making it more like 'real life', pehaps, but at least it's giving it variety, allowing some relationships to be improved on, others strained, and just imagine some like the reuniting between lovers. Roy and Cecila, Hayley and Elan, V and Belkar. :P