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View Full Version : So, What Will Be the 'Low Point?'



Girl Wonder
2008-06-24, 03:52 PM
Hello, everyone!

Many, many good stories that involve conflict, after they have introduced us to and gotten us to care about the good guys (and given them a few victories so that we know they CAN win) then throw us for a loop by handing them a stark reversal.

Boromir tries to steal the Ring, Merry and Pippin are captured, and the Fellowship breaks up. (Lord of the Rings)

Luke confronts Vader... and loses, wounded in both body and spirit. Han Solo is frozen in carbonite and delivered into the hands of his enemies. (Star Wars saga)

The entire Southern delegation walks out and John Adams friends all abandon him because of his stubbornness on the eve of the day Congress must vote independence up or down (from 1776, my favorite musical, included here even theough it's obscure, because I like it. ;) )

Anyway, call it the 'It's always darkest before the dawn' moment... where our heroes, depleted in body and spirit, must reexamine themselves, their priorities, and then, somehow, renew their energy and rededicate themselves to the task at hand with a new approach and/or new confidence.

I had first thought that the 'low point' would have been comic #484 ('At the End of the Day'.), the last comic before Mr. Burlew's break last year. We got snapshots of all the bad things that were going on. Azure City had fallen. The Order of the Stick was divided. Roy was dead. Xykon was very large and in charge, and the sun (which had been fading for several comics) finally faded away to night. Surely this was the darkest moment!

I thought that after Mr. Burlew's return we would see the long, slow turnaround where the good guys gained momentum for the final conflict. But since then, we've remained in the dark times, and some things have gotten worse. V slowly continues to alienate his comrades. Belkar is now slowly continuing to get sicker (and alienate his comrades.) Roy is slowly continuing to decompose.

So given that the Order has -yet- to reach rock-bottom, I pose the question to the assembled devotees of the comic ... do you think that moment is coming soon? What will it be? How much worse will things get before our heroes ultimately start getting their act together and begin the long, slow climb back to their previous triumphs and beyond?

I was already wrong about comic #484, so I have no speculation myself ... but I'd love to hear yours!

TigerHunter
2008-06-24, 04:06 PM
This is the low point. Roy's dead, the Order is scattered, and Xykon is beaten. V is insane, ignoring plot hooks and refusing to help the other members of the Order. Belkar is killing plot-important NPC's and nobody's restraining him.

Morty
2008-06-24, 04:07 PM
Well, there's always a possibility that there won't be any distinct "hit the bottom" moment in OoTS. After all, OoTS isn't your typical epic story.

de-trick
2008-06-24, 04:09 PM
yah, is a pretty bad moment for the order

twerk_face
2008-06-24, 04:17 PM
Well, I'm not sure what the low point will be, like what exactly will happen, but what I AM sure of is that the steady climb back to the top will begin when Roy gets raised.

Thats the theme The Giant has had for the last 100 comics: With Roy at it's head, The Order is a crime fighting squad to be ranked up there with The Avengers, The Fellowship, and The Trio (Harry Potter fans know who I'm talking about). But without him at the helm, The Order falls apart: he is the glue that hold the team together, and makes them what they are.

And I'm guessing Roy's raising is going to be strip 600,

Lunaya
2008-06-24, 04:31 PM
Yeah, I think if we're not at the Low Point already, we're pretty darn close. As it is, half of the OOTS is out of commission. Roy's dead. V's getting sick, and Belkar may be dying if Haley and Celia can't (or won't) find him a healer.

I think we're about to reach a breaking point with Vaarsuvius. Hir health and hir relationships with the others are all failing.

I think we're also about to get a little character development from Belkar. If I've learned anything from dramatic movies, fantasy books, etc., it's that getting deathly sick can dramatically change a person (assuming they survive it, of course). Belkar's faced death plenty of times and usually takes it in stride, but if he continues to deteriorate, he may well end up doing some thinking...wishful thinking on my part, I know.

Ninja
2008-06-24, 05:16 PM
if this ain't it, its gonna be soon... possibly some more troubles in trying to raise Roy, Belkar getin' sicker, V getin' crazier, heck, maybe even the temporary city that Hinjo wants to make might be just a notch down.....but you never know..
on second thought it might be somethign like this: they all gather up, Team Evil goes to Girard's gate, Oots goes there too, they destroy yet another gate, and hit the rock bottom than, and they gather they act right before Team Evil goes for the final gate, Kraagor's, and they win there... ( well i hope they win )

AceOfFools
2008-06-24, 09:41 PM
I'd be really and truly surprised if things got any worse then they are now.

The OotS is scattered, stranded where they can't find help for their problems, and half of them are out of commission. The the evil guys have taken over a small kingdom and are getting more powerful and entrenched by the day.

Things can't get worse unless Team Evil, the Linear Guild, House Kubota, etc. succeed in eliminating a segment of OotS entirely or gain control of one of the gates.

The story won't be over if they do, by the way.
Start of Darkness describes some of the "other things" Redcloak is lying to Xykon about

Tempest Fennac
2008-06-25, 02:12 AM
I agree with AceOfFools. I'd say the low point was "At the end of the day", and that things are slowly getting better (dispite Belkar an V's health, which probably won't be perminant problems).

Morgan Wick
2008-06-25, 03:17 PM
The low point was the previous two strips, with Belkar suffering under the MoJ.

The climb back? Starts with this strip.

RMS Oceanic
2008-06-25, 04:15 PM
That sentiment seems right, but depends entirely on what happens with Roy and the Oracle next. If the Oracle gives Roy information to try and help out, then we have a climb-up. If he's like "screw you mammal", then we'll have to wait for Haley to revive Roy for the climbup to begin.

David Argall
2008-06-25, 06:00 PM
The Oracle is talking with Roy for some reason, but there has got to be something in it for the Oracle.

Red XIV
2008-06-25, 06:49 PM
I'd still say 484 is the "low point" for the heroes. It's just that nearly 100 strips later they haven't climbed out yet. What we've seen so far have simply been the repercussions of the defeat at Azure City.

Girl Wonder
2008-06-25, 07:12 PM
Perhaps #484 was the 'Car going off the road into a snowbank' strip, and all the strips in there were just frantically spinning the wheels, staying essentially in the same rotten place, working very hard, but only digging in a bit deeper.

I'm really hoping that with this strip, things will start turning up again... maybe the Oracle will throw a little sand or something under the wheels to begin the long, hard process of getting our heroes back on the road and moving forward with real momentum!

VForVaarsuvius
2008-06-25, 08:56 PM
That sentiment seems right, but depends entirely on what happens with Roy and the Oracle next. If the Oracle gives Roy information to try and help out, then we have a climb-up. If he's like "screw you mammal", then we'll have to wait for Haley to revive Roy for the climbup to begin.

I honestly can't see the oracle NOT doing the second option, from what we've seen of him so far. Maybe there'll be something in it for him though...

Flickerdart
2008-06-25, 09:59 PM
Hm. The way I see it, we'll be seeing the return soon. Haley and Co. will make it to Cliffport and raise Roy soon enough, Vaarsuvius will probably achieve his ultimate arcane power soon enough to try and contact her and then the Order is reunited and stronger than ever. I mean, every single other person's prophecy came true already, didn't it? Except for Elan, but he doesn't count. V should be getting his dues soon enough.

Red XIV
2008-06-25, 10:11 PM
I honestly can't see the oracle NOT doing the second option, from what we've seen of him so far. Maybe there'll be something in it for him though...
Well, there's the whole "end of the world" thing. The Oracle's in the world, so he probably doesn't want that to happen.

So if he knows anything that Roy needs to know to prevent it, that would definitely be an incentive. But on the other hand if the Oracle simply knows about things that Roy would like to know but will happen regardless, he's got no such incentive.

Yoritomo Himeko
2008-06-25, 10:22 PM
Well, the low point is usually right before the climax in the story. We are only about a little more than halfway through the entire comic. We might have some minor low points, but the really big low point is yet to come.

Spoiled just in case:
Personally, I think it will be right before the final showdown between the OOTS and Team Evil. Maybe not even that, just Roy and Xykon. Any and all allies will be gone, and all seems lost with Xykon on the brink of victory. The OOTS will make one last desperate to stop him and they will succeed.

Nexuapex
2008-06-25, 10:40 PM
I'm in agreement that we haven't really hit the low point yet.

Why? Because I compare every story to Star Wars.

The Death Star, er, Tower of Dorukan has been blown up. The Empire has Struck Back. It's not directly linear, because Han has already been frozen in Carbonite (Roy is dead), but we haven't had an "I AM YOUR FATHER" moment. We probably won't get one, per se, but there's nothing yet that serves as a "not only were we crushingly defeated, but my mother is also secretly working for the bad guys" moment.

We aren't at the bottom yet, IMO.

Lunaya
2008-06-25, 10:48 PM
Obviously Belkar is on his way down and I'm thinking that Vaarsuvius won't be far behind. S/he's getting less rational by the page and Durkon is clearly getting worried about hir health.

I worry that V is about to fall hard, and if Haley, hir closest friend, can't be there to catch hir, I hope Elan and Durkon can.

Gamerlord
2008-06-26, 05:05 AM
Well we all have to remember the rule of media "If things can get worse they will" things may end up being even more lower if you know what i mean.

EDIT: Well if rich is attempting to get everyone to like the heroes, he's not doing it right, theirs 1 person (me) who has a attitude like this: "the heroes drool, redclock rules!"

Ninja
2008-06-26, 05:34 AM
Hm. The way I see it, we'll be seeing the return soon. Haley and Co. will make it to Cliffport and raise Roy soon enough, Vaarsuvius will probably achieve his ultimate arcane power soon enough to try and contact her and then the Order is reunited and stronger than ever. I mean, every single other person's prophecy came true already, didn't it? Except for Elan, but he doesn't count. V should be getting his dues soon enough.

well actually only Haley's and Belkar's came so far.... Durkon still aint back in his homeland, Team Evil still ain't 1000 foot within the gate, Elan's happy end is still to come, and V still don't have arcane power ( and i don't think (s)he'll be gettin it soon, cuz he'll be able to find Haley without it soon, once the Cloister expires on her)......

Spoled just in case:
I think they will soon come back together.... V will scury Haley once Cloister expires on her, she'll raise Roy, they all unite, go to Girard's gate, destroy that one too, and than they hit "the low point". They pick up their act right before Team Evil goes for Kraagor's gate..... they win there.

Morty
2008-06-26, 05:53 AM
There's one thing that has been bugging me for a while: why are people so eager to see Order back together? I mean, they've been together for almost 500 strips, is it so bad that things are different now? Does the comic lose anything when they're apart? So far, I've only seen comic gaining on it, as it opens the possibilites for jokes and plot points. Same goes for Roy being dead and people demanding that he should be raised.

Niknokitueu
2008-06-26, 06:36 AM
The Oracle is talking with Roy for some reason, but there has got to be something in it for the Oracle.
...And someone forseeing the future possible unravelling of reality deciding to help the one person that can do something about it would not count as 'something in it' for the Oracle?

Hmm. Then again, for him, probably not.

He may just help Roy in order for Roy to be indebted to him. He may do it for the sake of future reality. He may just trade insults and laugh at Roy. Only time (and Rich) will tell.

I personally think we have already hit the low point for OotS: V's getting more insane won't actually render the situation worse, and if anything Belkar activating the MoJ is the first plus in a long line of required plusses before OotS are triumphant over the forces of darkness.
...If they ever are triumphant...

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

HOLEkevin
2008-06-26, 06:59 AM
I don't think Rich has ever followed a standard plotting formula. While you might expect: Things are nice… things get worse… things get a lot worse… things are at their darkest… heroes rebound… victory! What we typically get is: Things are okay… things get worse… things get a lot worse… things get even worse than that… nope, still getting worse… heroes fail to rebound… partial victory against forces we don't really understand or can successfully contend with.

Now of course Rich may be taking the long view and we simply haven't seen the patterns yet. That would be my honest bet — which plays back into your original point. So, have we hit bottom yet? No, not by a long shot.

nimby
2008-06-26, 07:24 AM
I think technically, the low point was Elan signing up.

Yoritomo Himeko
2008-06-26, 10:20 AM
There's one thing that has been bugging me for a while: why are people so eager to see Order back together? I mean, they've been together for almost 500 strips, is it so bad that things are different now? Does the comic lose anything when they're apart? So far, I've only seen comic gaining on it, as it opens the possibilites for jokes and plot points. Same goes for Roy being dead and people demanding that he should be raised.

Because that's when the OOTS are the funniest? I prefer Roy's reaction to Elan's antics much more than, say Daigo's.

It's just sad to see Roy floating around just watching and commenting. Seeing V fall apart is sad too. While I think Elan's antics are cute, seeing Belkar just stab people and now vomiting on everyone just gets tiring. Haley still needs to do something about Belkar, and poor Durkon needs another storyline.

Morty
2008-06-26, 11:41 AM
Because that's when the OOTS are the funniest? I prefer Roy's reaction to Elan's antics much more than, say Daigo's.

Roy's been reacting in a tired and sarcastic way to Elan's foolishness for ~500 strips. I belive that other people having to deal with Elan's lack of brain is a good change of pace.


It's just sad to see Roy floating around just watching and commenting. Seeing V fall apart is sad too. While I think Elan's antics are cute, seeing Belkar just stab people and now vomiting on everyone just gets tiring. Haley still needs to do something about Belkar, and poor Durkon needs another storyline.

Well, I see all of those as new and fresh situations that help the comic avoid being stagnant. And I think that Vaarsuvius slowly drifting towards insanity due to his/her inability to admit being powerless is very good subplot. Then again, from this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0436.html) strip forward my sympathy for V has been low.

Red XIV
2008-06-26, 01:51 PM
Roy's been reacting in a tired and sarcastic way to Elan's foolishness for ~500 strips. I belive that other people having to deal with Elan's lack of brain is a good change of pace.
Roy's snarky responses to Elan's stupidity are just funnier, though.

Mordae
2008-06-26, 01:55 PM
I don't think you can rule out it getting worse from here, even if it seems to get better for a little bit. An example that comes to mind is the plot from Final Fantasy VI, where the Empire is defeated and things seem to be on the mend but then Kefka goes and nearly destroys the world.

As far as being an overall rock bottom, it's hard to say that there has been, is, or will be one until we get to the end. Rich is well-versed in the oft-trodden paths of fantasy writing, and I think we can safely expect him to throw in some unique twists between now and the ultimate victory or defeat for the OotS that will reach new epic and/or comedic heights.

Ninja
2008-06-26, 02:59 PM
That is what i think as well.... i said that in that spoiler of mine.... somrhing like that....