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Behold_the_Void
2008-06-25, 01:58 AM
As usual, disclaimer: if you don't like 4e, please don't bother posting.

So, this idea was spawned from looking at the Skill Challenges and having had an idea knocking around to do a Shadow of the Colossus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_of_the_Colossus) low-magic low-power 3.5 homebrew at some point.

I'll be running a game that should start around mid or late September, and it will be the first 4e game I've run, so I want to start working on this project now so I have plenty of time to tweak it once I have the core stuff down.

So the plot centers around ancient empires, magitechnology, blah blah blah encroaching darkness, empires fall, chosen heroes must drive back the darkness.

The core of this idea though is that one of the major weapons of the lost civilization is the colossi, massive weapons with destructive power.

What I want to do is have these creatures only vulnerable in certain areas. With the limited flight capabilities of PCs (and with special abilities I can give later on that will make them less effective), I want to turn these into a massive solo encounter and something of a dungeon as well. The PCs would be expected to climb around the colossi and target specific weak points, dealing the appropriate amount of damage.

The main question here is how this should be formatted. I'm not expecting a confrontation with a Colossi until at LEAST level 5, and if the format works out I may use it for other really large encounters as well (like Dragons, for example).

Since I don't have experience with how combat runs outside of theory, I'm looking for some advice on how to run these. Skill challenges seem pretty simple, primarily acrobatics-based, possibly with some of the other characters running interference. I figure I can map out both sides and use the grid for them climbing vertically while I have another map devoted to the positions of those on the ground and the creature itself.

What I'm mainly looking at is how I should do the damage. I figure there will be certain weak spots that all have a set amount of HP and must all be disabled (the creature reaching bloodied after about half of them have been disabled), and I want a minimum of two weak-points on each colossus, with more for stronger, more complex colossi. I also need some decent attacks, they'll be generally fairly straightforward and smashy early on and by the end of it be terrifying engines of destruction with plenty of means to attack the little insects crawling all over them.

So as you can see, I have a basic framework in mind. I'm looking for specifics, suggested skill DCs for various things, HP and attack suggestions, things like that. I'll likely start putting it together when I've got some of my other maps and such done, but I'm trying to get some other ideas on the table that I can pick and choose from to help me complete the project.

Paragon Badger
2008-06-25, 02:11 AM
So maybe a skill challenge, and once they meet the required number of successful checks, all attacks are considered critical hits and ignore a (considerable) damage reduction? Wait... do 4E monsters even have damage reduction? :smalleek: *scurries away to find his MM*

I'd say about 3 critical hits from the toughest melee PC should be enough to bring one down, and perhaps demanding a move action just to hold on to the big guy each round (maybe a strength check in addition)

Of course, the Collosus could take a move action to try and shrug off the climber too, or worse; a standard action to grab him if they're mobile enough. Hence the other party running interference.

Though I woulden't suggest multiple weak points. Your fighter/climb monkey will get tired of rolling athletic checks. It works for the PS2- not so much for D&D, I'd imagine.

On that note; you stole my idea for releasing the seal on god-prison terrasques. Well...okay, I stole that from Shadow of the Collosus too. :smalltongue: ...Moreso, probably.

Goober4473
2008-06-25, 02:11 AM
My thoughts so far:

Skill checks are less intense than real-time climbing, so you'd have to work on the success/failure benefits/penalties to make it feel right. Like for example, you don't fall after X failures, but instead each one costs you something.

This could be difficult to pull off with a full group of PCs. A smaller group or one character would be better. Also, giving all character some special abilities regardless of class seems appropriate. For example, some sort of super climbing abilities that cost them points from some sort of fatigue pool. You mentioned limited flight abilities. That sounds pretty cool.

It would be cool to have sort of "rooms" on the collosi, where normal encounters take place in the middle of the main fight.

Also, since these battles could be extremely long and include mini-encounters, the characters should be able to draw power from the collosi as they deal damage, regaining encounter powers and reaching milestones.

The fights should be part puzzle, part fight. Probably broken down into multiple encounters, where some are logic puzzles, some are traps and skill challenges, and some are fights against minions, against a body part, or against something else. Perhaps mostly puzzle/skill challenge, but failure means they have to fight something, or get thrown off and the collosi attacks them directly. And then a few other combats to deal damage to some sections.

The party should probably have some indecation of how much more they have to do (though not what they have to do) in order to win.

These things would be an amazing addition to my Boss Compendium (see signature). If you wouldn't mind me using them or the idea.

Learnedguy
2008-06-25, 02:12 AM
Hmm, sounds like you have a pretty good idea already (I haven't actually played Shadow of the Colossi though)

Is it possibly you could mix it with a bit of ICO? You could add these shadow things that occasionally spawns in small numbers, adding some combat flavor as well. Vertical fights could get quite interesting I believe.

Also, some parts of the giganti could behave like traps, that would probably be pretty interesting.

Behold_the_Void
2008-06-25, 02:20 AM
I like the ideas of enemies spawning on the colossi. Also, something I was considering was making failures mean you can't progress further, and great successes increase the climbing speed, or something to that effect. It may make it less of a skill challenge and more of a skill requirement to continue fighting.

The colossi will, of course, have the ability to attempt to brush or shake off climbers, especially later colossi, and will be constantly moving (probably towards a town or something). Especially at first I don't want to make the time frame too exacting, they'll have enough to think about with the new mechanics, but once they've gotten the hang of fighting the things I definitely intend to make speed more essential.

The reason I want multiple weak-points is because multiple people will be on the colossi and coordinating attacks (another thing I've considered for colossi is giving some weak points regeneration based around the damage a corresponding weak point has taken, to require people to simultaneously attack two points at a time.

The ability to recharge encounter powers at points on the colossi is a good idea, as is the making rooms or niches for characters to catch their breath. I'll probably incorporate them into the design, although it'll make for more complex mapping.

Daracaex
2008-06-25, 02:25 AM
I wouldn't treat the colossus as a creature. I would treat it as an environment, and each weak point is its own "creature." There might be other creatures protecting the weak points or traps and such on the colossus that make things difficult. The goal is to navigate the constantly shifting environment and "kill" every weak point "creature." I've never played the game, but if the colossus does things like try to swat you with his hand, treat that as a trap/hazard as well. That makes things a lot simpler than trying to make something that huge its own creature.

Behold_the_Void
2008-06-25, 02:44 AM
I wouldn't treat the colossus as a creature. I would treat it as an environment, and each weak point is its own "creature." There might be other creatures protecting the weak points or traps and such on the colossus that make things difficult. The goal is to navigate the constantly shifting environment and "kill" every weak point "creature." I've never played the game, but if the colossus does things like try to swat you with his hand, treat that as a trap/hazard as well. That makes things a lot simpler than trying to make something that huge its own creature.

I like this idea a lot, actually, that seems like a good way to do it. And the elements I was considering should work fine with it.

namo
2008-06-25, 04:04 AM
To bring more skills in play than just acrobatics:

- at some point (triggered when bloodied), the Colossus jerks / moves / smashes one flight of stairs the characters were going to use. They'll have to use Athletics to jump.

- somewhere (set in an altar on the ground, or in the colossus itself) is gem that is pulsing energy. Characters trained in Arcana can try to identify and maybe take control of it, slowing the colossus.

- Perception to notice weak points

- if the Colossus is moving, Insight to try and determine what will happen next

- History to learn when it was built. Wait, that doesn't help. :smallwink:

bosssmiley
2008-06-25, 07:34 AM
Instead of trying to turn skill challenges into something workable sane you could just run a themed dungeon crawl inside the colossus (like the BECMI "Earthshaker" module and one of the monsters in the Iron Heroes bestiary). The only breach in the teleport-warded stone integument? A Talos-style hole in the ankle.

Auto-immune defence mechanisms and weird-looking colossus worshipping parasites like Cloakers or Xill are the monsters ("Intruders! Protect the god/home/beast!"). The internal layout shifts as the colossus moves. Falling or being squished by chunks of grinding stone musculature are *major* hazards. Weird gravitic effects abound and various channelled energies erupt from the thaumo-reactors that dot the place.

And, if played right, you'll be able to use the immortal line: "Agh! It's the last hurrah of Dungtick the Merciless and his gutbug fleet in here!"

I might be using this "Fantastic Voyage" idea myself now. :smallbiggrin: