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kladams707
2008-06-26, 05:51 PM
Exactly how does sneak attack work after it's been used? Can it be used on the same enemy so long as the conditions for another sneak attack on that enemy remain the same?

Example: Say I'm an 11th level rogue, my party's is facing an enemy and I'm able to sneak up behind this enemy (one w/o any type of uncanny dodge). I then of course shank the npc. Can I in the next round sneak attack the same enemy so long as he still cannot defend himself effectively even though he is now aware of me?

I'm just wondering how everyone interprets sneak attack in this case.

Kyeudo
2008-06-26, 05:54 PM
You are correct. A 11th level rouge with TWF and Greater TWF can unload 4 sneak attacks on a full attack, so long as the target remains flanked or denied his dexterity bonus.

RTGoodman
2008-06-26, 05:55 PM
Despite the name, Sneak Attack doesn't REQUIRE sneaking, per se. As long as you meet the criteria for it, as listed in the description, it always applies.


The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target.

As long as you're either flanking the target or the target is denied its Dex bonus (because you've attack from hiding, you're invisible, you're able to act before it in combat or during a surprise round, etc.), then you add your SA damage.

Elhann
2008-06-26, 05:56 PM
Once your opponent acts in his initiative counter, he is no longer flatfooted.

If one of your allies flanks said opponent, you can sneak attack him as much as you want. There are other ways to get sneak attack bonus, such as getting your wizard friend to cast greater invisibilty on you.

*EDIT: Ninjas in a sneak attack thread, who would have thought about it?*

Grey Paladin
2008-06-26, 05:58 PM
If the foe is flat footed or flanked, and is not immune to critical hits or sneak attacks (is not undead, lacks Fortification enchantment on armor, etc) then add Xd6 damage.

This condition is checked on each attack, and if it remains true than the extra damage is added to that attack.

kladams707
2008-06-26, 06:55 PM
Thanks everyone.

That's what I thought.

xPANCAKEx
2008-06-26, 07:03 PM
Thanks everyone.

That's what I thought.

now go forth and do as olidammara intended... stab and steal.

kladams707
2008-06-27, 06:49 AM
now go forth and do as olidammara intended... stab and steal.

I'm not sure my god would appreciate that, considering I'm not a rogue.

I was asking the question on behalf of our party's rogue.

SoD
2008-06-27, 06:53 AM
Or, to be just plain mean, take a single level in sorcerer...your rogue, 11th level rogue, 1st level sorcerer, ray of frost: 1d3+6d6 cold damage. With a cantrip. Or with acid splash: 1d3+6d6 acid damage.

Fun fun fun.

Ceaon
2008-06-27, 06:57 AM
Or, to be just plain mean, take a single level in sorcerer...your rogue, 11th level rogue, 1st level sorcerer, ray of frost: 1d3+6d6 cold damage. With a cantrip. Or with acid splash: 1d3+6d6 acid damage.

Fun fun fun.

Wouldn't that be 1d3 cold damage + 6d6 'normal' damage?

SoD
2008-06-27, 07:00 AM
I beleive the sneak attack is the same type of damage as the spell, with a few exceptions. E.G, if the spell damages an ability score, or level loss, the sneak attack is negative energy hp damage.

Person_Man
2008-06-27, 10:08 AM
Sneak Attack 101:

Any time your enemy is flanked or denied their Dex bonus, they qualify for Sneak Attack. Sneak Attack applies to every such attack. There are many, many ways to qualify.

There are also two major exceptions:

1) When you enemy is immune. This includes (but is not limited to) enemies who are undead, constructs, oozes, plants, incorporeal, have 100% fortification, and many other ways (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2973940#post2973940). There are specific alternate class abilities, spells, and magic items that can get you around many of these immunities, but rarely 100% of the time.

2) When you make a "volley (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040309a)" attack - multiple attacks with the same attack roll. Examples include Scorching Ray, Manyshot, the Halfling Skiprock, and one of the Master Thrower tricks. In a volley attack, Sneak Attack only applies to the first attack of the volley.

There are also a variety of feats you can use to buff Sneak Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66915). Though optimizing Sneak Attack is a lot like pimping out a Hyundai - it works really well sometimes, but never as much as if you had just used another car.

Frost
2008-06-27, 10:59 AM
2) When you make a "volley (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040309a)" attack - multiple attacks with the same attack roll. Examples include Scorching Ray, Manyshot, the Halfling Skiprock, and one of the Master Thrower tricks. In a volley attack, Sneak Attack only applies to the first attack of the volley.

I don't know about the skiprock, but scorching ray is explicitly not a volley attack since it requires multiple attack roles and does SA damage on each ray.

Frosty
2008-06-27, 11:31 AM
And do note that Greater Manyshot does not count as a volley attack.

Burley
2008-06-27, 12:10 PM
I expect to get electro-hit for this, but:

Take a level of Lion Totem Barbarian and Improved Initiative. That pounce and sneak attack will probably kill just about anything if you get them before they move. Killin' dragons has never been so easy...unless the dragon is immune to sneak attacks...

RTGoodman
2008-06-27, 12:18 PM
I expect to get electro-hit for this, but:

Take a level of Lion Totem Barbarian and Improved Initiative. That pounce and sneak attack will probably kill just about anything if you get them before they move. Killin' dragons has never been so easy...unless the dragon is immune to sneak attacks...

I don't know about in a regular game (since your BAB is going to be too low for PA and such), but this is my plan for a Gestalt game. Just go Rogue//Fighter/Barbarian and do the standard charger stuff (PA, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, plus something to give sneak attack on charges, like Imp. Init. or Neraph Charge). Hello [2d6+9d6+23807289037] x 4 damage (or maybe x8 with TWF, if I went that route)!

Chronos
2008-06-27, 12:54 PM
Or, to be just plain mean, take a single level in sorcerer...your rogue, 11th level rogue, 1st level sorcerer, ray of frost: 1d3+6d6 cold damage. With a cantrip. Or with acid splash: 1d3+6d6 acid damage.Or just stay pure rogue, and UMD a wand. Wands of 0th-level spells are really cheap.

Person_Man
2008-06-27, 01:05 PM
I don't know about the skiprock, but scorching ray is explicitly not a volley attack since it requires multiple attack roles and does SA damage on each ray.

I'm sorry, I should have quoted the full explanation from the Rules article I linked to, instead of paraphrasing it:



Volley Type Attacks

Sometimes, you make multiple attacks with the same attack roll, such as when you use the Manyshot feat, or you make multiple attack rolls as part of the same attack, such as with the scorching ray spell. When you do so, only the first attack in the volley can be a sneak attack.

Again, my bad. I left out the bolded part of the explanation in error.

And Frosty is also correct. Greater Manyshot (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Greater_Manyshot_(Feat)) explicitly allows precision damage to apply to each arrow fired. An exception to the exception! (Maybe 4E isn't that bad?)

Project_Mayhem
2008-06-27, 01:31 PM
on a related subject, does sneak attack stack with stuff like sudden strike? Assuming all the conditions are met obviously.

Chronos
2008-06-27, 02:05 PM
No reason it wouldn't. Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, etc., aren't specific actions that you take, that you would have to choose one or the other. The action you take to make a Sneak Attack is just to attack, and if it qualifies for Sneak Attack, you get the extra Sneak Attack damage withouth having to do something special to use the ability. Most things that grant Sneak Attack or the like will explicitly state that they stack, but this isn't actually necessary for them to say this, since it would happen by the rules anyway.

It's especially easy to combine Sudden Strike with Sneak Attack, since any situation where you're eligible for Sudden Strike, you're also eligible for Sneak Attack (and often, but not always, vice-versa).

Lady Tialait
2008-06-27, 02:10 PM
My last DM booted me from the Game, he allowed multiclassing. So I multiclassed....Rouge1/Ninja 1/SpellTheif 1/Warlock 1.....not really that powerful. But, the DM got scared and threw out for 'Too much Min/Maxing'...i think i should have gone 4 wizard and really showed off......

Worira
2008-06-27, 02:23 PM
Did you point out to him how you had a BAB of +0?

Lady Tialait
2008-06-27, 02:46 PM
Yes I did...he said "Yeah, but you deal 4D6, and next level are you gunna have another D6?".....I just smiled and noded...But, funny thing is I didn't need B.A.B. I did touch attacks, and didn't attack unless they were flat-footed.

But, if i was Min/maxing trust me...that wouldn't have been what I did. At all....Oh well. Maybe one day someone will let me play Fred of the dark ways again....*sigh*

Chronos
2008-06-27, 04:48 PM
What, no Psychic Rogue, Sneak Attack variant Fighter, Scout, Swordsage, or Assassin?