Daigo...

[Cleverdan22]

After going back and reading the island story arc, I have a theory. I think that Daigo might have a shot at becoming a member of the Order, if even part time. This isn't a "IF THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN THEN I WILL QUIT READING THE COMIC!" thing, its just that watching him running away from crazy misadventures with Elan and Durkon and developing a protective layer of sarcasm for Elan's tomfoolery really made him look like he has a natural place there. What do you guys (and gals) think?

[Mauve Shirt]

NONE of the NPCs are going to join the Order, none of the resistance, none of the Azurites/paladins, not Therkla, certainly not Redcloak, no. The Order of the Stick is our favorite 6 PCs and they will not change.

Daigo has a nice place as a mauveshirt, but Hinjo's closer to becoming a member of the Order, IF that were to happen, which it ISN'T.

[Jayngfet]

I think Diago is a bit busy, y'know, nobility, pregnant wife, training soldiers, diplomacy.

[David Argall]

Diago is 6th-7th level. The party is 13th-14th. He's too low level to provide help.

And as noted, the story style does not encourage adding anybody to the party.

[Cleverdan22]

NONE of the NPCs are going to join the Order, none of the resistance, none of the Azurites/paladins, not Therkla, certainly not Redcloak, no. The Order of the Stick is our favorite 6 PCs and they will not change.

Daigo is technically not an NPC if I have the understanding of this correct.

Also, you all make good points, and maybe not so much as Order of the Stick, but he's be traveling with at least 3 members of the Order since the war, and I can see him continuing to do so even after the Order reunites.

Perhaps a better question would have been: "Do you think that Daigo will stay a main character and travel with the Order, like Miko?"

[TigerHunter]

Daigo is technically not an NPC if I have the understanding of this correct.
He's been referred to as a "redshirt" by Haley. Odds are he's an NPC.

[Cleverdan22]

He's upgraded his status by now. He's a blueshirt.

[TigerHunter]

He's upgraded his status by now. He's a blueshirt.
Mauveshirt, more like. But really, he's still an NPC. There's really no reason to add another PC to an already large game.

[NerfTW]

NONE of the NPCs are going to join the Order, none of the resistance, none of the Azurites/paladins, not Therkla, certainly not Redcloak, no. The Order of the Stick is our favorite 6 PCs and they will not change.

Daigo has a nice place as a mauveshirt, but Hinjo's closer to becoming a member of the Order, IF that were to happen, which it ISN'T.

I'm sorry, Rich Burlew, I was unaware you changed your screen name. How nice of you to give us exact details of the plot that only you could know. :smallconfused:

[Ikialev]

He's been referred to as a "redshirt" by Haley. Odds are he's an NPC.

He's upgraded his status by now. He's a blueshirt.

Mauveshirt, more like. But really, he's still an NPC.

...yeah. It's so good that MauveShirt has her sig.

[puzpuz]

Daigo is a horse!

But no, he won't be a member of the order...

[Borris]

As it's been pointed before, Daigo is some 7 levels behind the Order of the Stick, so there's no chance he can join the party on level-appropriate adventures. At best, he can serve them as a cohort or sidekick, like he's doing at the momemt. But from a story perpective, it seems like Daigo is just there to play a substitute straightman to Elan while Roy is away. As soon as we get Roy back to complaining about Elan's horrible lack of common sense, Daigo will be able to go back to his standard Azurite noble occupations.

[Dunesen]

He's upgraded his status by now. He's a blueshirt.

But if he's from Azure City, wouldn't blueshirt be the most common level?

What other shirts are there? Brownshirts? Blackshirts? I don't think he's a fascist.

[d'Bwobsling]

I'm sorry, Rich Burlew, I was unaware you changed your screen name. How nice of you to give us exact details of the plot that only you could know. :smallconfused:

There's nothing wrong with giving suggustions...

[NerfTW]

There's nothing wrong with giving suggustions...


IF that were to happen, which it ISN'T.

That is not a suggestion, that's a definitive statement of fact that is baseless and doesn't belong in a discussion of something we have no proof one way or the other on.

[Remirach]

That is not a suggestion, that's a definitive statement of fact that is baseless and doesn't belong in a discussion of something we have no proof one way or the other on.

Actually I'm almost positive Mauve Shirt was simply repeating what the Giant had said on occasion, since the topic of "will Hinjo join the Order" came up a lot.

[NerfTW]

Actually I'm almost positive Mauve Shirt was simply repeating what the Giant had said on occasion, since the topic of "will Hinjo join the Order" came up a lot.

Then she should quote it or simply say so, instead of acting as if, as I pointed out, she was making the declaration.

[Mauve Shirt]

...'kay, sorry for making a declarative statement. Imagine that I put "in my opinion" before that post. :smallsigh:

[Ninja]

I'm sorry, Rich Burlew, I was unaware you changed your screen name. How nice of you to give us exact details of the plot that only you could know. :smallconfused:

you know she is right.... noone is gonna join Oots... especialy not NPC's... and besides Daigo has other stuff on mind than joinin Oots... like his wife, baby, his new found status of a noble....

[Mauve Shirt]

Perhaps a better question would have been: "Do you think that Daigo will stay a main character and travel with the Order, like Miko?"

I agree that this is perhaps a better question. He may become a main character, but I seriously doubt any of them join the order.

[AceOfFools]

Daigo is technically not an NPC if I have the understanding of this correct.

If this is true, you're understanding is not correct. NPC stands for Non-player character, and it applies to everyone outside the small (in this case 6) group of player characters. Everyone to Xykon to the axe seller's daughter are NPCs.

NPCs can (and frequently do) accompany PCs on their various adventures in all sorts of capacities, from side kick to liability to traitor to substantially more powerful ally.

Large portions of any story will focus on NPCs' motivations and goals, as the every antagonist and ally of the party is an NPC.

And now you know.

[Jayngfet]

If this is true, you're understanding is not correct. NPC stands for Non-player character, and it applies to everyone outside the small (in this case 6) group of player characters. Everyone to Xykon to the axe seller's daughter are NPCs.

NPCs can (and frequently do) accompany PCs on their various adventures in all sorts of capacities, from side kick to liability to traitor to substantially more powerful ally.

Large portions of any story will focus on NPCs' motivations and goals, as the every antagonist and ally of the party is an NPC.

And now you know.

Technically there are no PC's/NPC's since there are no players, this is a "real world", not six collage students bantering over pizza and mountain dew. There have been threats to the world before, and doubtlessly will be again, going on an adventure and fighting a lich trying to undo the orld isn't a rare thing plot wise(remember the lich from final fantasy and his attempts to rot the world?)

[Red XIV]

Since the world of OOTS is depicted as being a real world that just happens to work according to D&D game mechanics (and its residents somehow know this), rather than merely being seven people (the six PCs and the DM) playing a D&D campaign...it's entirely possible that there are, or at some time in the past have been, other PCs besides Roy, Durkon, V, Haley, Elan, and Belkar in it.

[David Argall]

That is not a suggestion, that's a definitive statement of fact that is baseless and doesn't belong in a discussion of something we have no proof one way or the other on.

Actually the statement is based on all the evidence we have to date. The writer may yet throw us a curve, but the odds are quite good the statement will be spot on.

[Paragon Badger]

Then she should quote it or simply say so, instead of acting as if, as I pointed out, she was making the declaration.

Then why don't you just ignore it? Clearly, you didn't believe Muave Shirt was an authoratative speaker on the subject (and I severely doubt anyone else did) so cut the snark.


Since the world of OOTS is depicted as being a real world that just happens to work according to D&D game mechanics (and its residents somehow know this), rather than merely being seven people (the six PCs and the DM) playing a D&D campaign...it's entirely possible that there are, or at some time in the past have been, other PCs besides Roy, Durkon, V, Haley, Elan, and Belkar in it.

The Order of the Scribble, for instance. :smalltongue:

As I see it, in the Ootsverse;

PC = Anyone who engages in PC-like behavoir and activities, like questing.
NPC = Anyone who doesn't. Like 'that dude' who tags along for an ecounter or two.

[The Extinguisher]

Well, we can also view the world as a comic which exists only for the order.

Which makes them the only PCs ever.

[Jayngfet]

Then why don't you just ignore it? Clearly, you didn't believe Muave Shirt was an authoratative speaker on the subject (and I severely doubt anyone else did) so cut the snark.



The Order of the Scribble, for instance. :smalltongue:

As I see it, in the Ootsverse;

PC = Anyone who engages in PC-like behavoir and activities, like questing.
NPC = Anyone who doesn't. Like 'that dude' who tags along for an ecounter or two.

Don't the rulebooks explicitly state that the PC's are nowhere near the only PC's, and rarely the best.

[AceOfFools]

There can be more than one set of PCs in a campaign setting, especially if the setting is published by wizards. How many people out there are playing Eberon games noe?

I'm not going to address how a work of fiction with a singular author can have PCs and NPCs. I would argue that the distinction doesn't exist, but the characters themselves (NPCs included) make it, so somehow it does. Hardly the only thing in a comic universe adhering to the rules of gaming system that doesn't make sense if you think about it too hard.

What... what was the topic of this thread again? Oh right, Daigo.

Elan needs a straight man for his zaniness to work. Half the fun is seeing how people react to him1. Durkon works in this role, but lacks the sarcasm that really drives the gags. Daigo was a stand in for Roy. It worked, on some level, but not as well as our fallen comrade did, for a number of reasons, most notably the shorter [screen] time the two have had together, and how few zingers Daigo got off.
______________________
1. Since humor and entertainment are subjective, the proceeding two points are not universal among the audience.

[FujinAkari]

According to Rich, there are only six PCs in the comic. Roy, Belkar, Haley, Durkon, Elan, and Vaarsuvius. There won't be any more, and the composition of the Order is not changing.

[LuisDantas]

Okay, I understand that the Giant decreed that there are only six PCs and that the Order's composition will not change. Fair enough - arbitrary, truth be told, but fair enough. It is, after all, his story.

But I wonder - how do people know Daigo's level so precisely? For that matter, since he's been sharing the spotlight with the PCs often enough, how do we know that he's not actually earned a few levels? We already know that NPCs gain levels off-panel on occasion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0535.html) and from both a D&D mechanics _and_ a narrative standpoint it makes sense that a NPC such as Daigo would level up faster if he shared adventures with the PCs.

As for joining the Order, I don't think that anyone will do so, but then again neither do I see any reason to. Being a OOTS member is not (in my mind at least) the same as being a PC, much less being a blueshirt or goldshirt.

Most of all, I wish I knew why some people seem bothered by the idea of Hinjo (whom I agree to have an even stronger case than Daigo) and/or Daigo earning main character status. It is more a matter of updating the labels than of making controversial changes, after all.

[David Argall]

- how do people know Daigo's level so precisely?
It was 6th level with strip 508


since he's been sharing the spotlight with the PCs often enough, how do we know that he's not actually earned a few levels?
Because then the PCs would also be gaining levels,and would stay ahead of him.


Most of all, I wish I knew why some people seem bothered by the idea of Hinjo (whom I agree to have an even stronger case than Daigo) and/or Daigo earning main character status. It is more a matter of updating the labels than of making controversial changes, after all.
They both have duties that keep them with the Azure City crowd. When the story leaves Azure City, they will stay behind. Kings in particular do not go galavanting off and leave their thrones vacant.

[Dunesen]

Because then the PCs would also be gaining levels,and would stay ahead of him.

They both have duties that keep them with the Azure City crowd. When the story leaves Azure City, they will stay behind. Kings in particular do not go galavanting off and leave their thrones vacant.

-Wouldn't a lower level person gain levels faster than a higher level person? I really don't think Daigo has done anything to get to level 7 yet, but if the amount of experience needed to gain levels rises proportionally, then Daigo could rise a couple levels faster than Elan or Durkon.

And didn't King Richard leave England to go fight in the Crusades? Hence his brother John took over and Robin Hood had to take him down a peg.

[TroyXavier]

More than anything the fact Daigo's early levels were primarily in the Warrior NPC class hurts more than anything.
(I also don't feel like he's in danger of joining the Order any time soon)

[baf]

Daigo reminds me of an NPC in a campaign I was in. He started out as just a nameless guard in a group of nameless guards, but he unexpectedly not only survived a battle with some monsters, he actually had a run of luck on the attack rolls and killed a few of the monsters. So the DM gave him a name and he continued with the party for some time before getting killed.

He was still an NPC, though.

[Mauve Shirt]

Most of all, I wish I knew why some people seem bothered by the idea of Hinjo (whom I agree to have an even stronger case than Daigo) and/or Daigo earning main character status. It is more a matter of updating the labels than of making controversial changes, after all.

Main character status (blueshirt-ness) =/= "joining the order"
Miko was a main character, but she was not a member of the order.

[David Argall]

-Wouldn't a lower level person gain levels faster than a higher level person?
Yes, but not that much faster under 3.5. Under earlier versions, the experience required often doubled at each level, which meant your 1st level in a 10th level party, if he survived, could be 10th about the time the party was 11th.
But 3.5 doesn't scale that much and Daigo would remain several levels behind the party, and a weak sister.


-And didn't King Richard leave England to go fight in the Crusades? Hence his brother John took over .
King Richard was hardly the most dedicated to the job of ruling. And he did have a brother to hold down the job for him. Still, he is a counter-example. But we still have the basis case that rulers stick to ruling.
A major problem here is who replaces Hinjo as leader of Azure City. There simply is no acceptable candidate to rule in his place. [Thant might be, but on the available evidence, his support would come from the Sapphire Guard, nearly all of which is dead. No, Lein is not an option. A fisherman's daughter in a city of nobles?]
Then we have Hinjo's Oath not to bother the other gates. He takes that very seriously, even removed his uncle from power for fiddling with that oath. And while Shojo's long range plans likely involved wholesale violation, he was removed for the mere act of trying to take a look at the other gates. Hinjo would be in major and open violation of his Oath.

Hinjo will help the party along, but he will stay on the dock wishing them well as they sail away.


-and Robin Hood had to take him down a peg
Robin Hood has been dated to much before and after King John, and any idea he had any dealings with the king is a fantasy. The writers wanted a picture of freedom loving peasant vs nasty ruler and the two were nominated without regard to historical accuracy.

[Kai Maera]

Yes, but not that much faster under 3.5. Under earlier versions, the experience required often doubled at each level, which meant your 1st level in a 10th level party, if he survived, could be 10th about the time the party was 11th.
But 3.5 doesn't scale that much and Daigo would remain several levels behind the party, and a weak sister.


You're forgetting that EXP gains also scale with level. Since the order is such a high level, they will gain relatively little compared to Daigo, explaining why he gains multiple levels in the amount of time it takes them to gain one. In essence, Daigo will always be catching up with them the more they fight, and if they do take on Xykon with him there he may even catch up completely with them, given that the experience given is based on his level at the start of the encounter.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

Most of all, I wish I knew why some people seem bothered by the idea of Hinjo (whom I agree to have an even stronger case than Daigo) and/or Daigo earning main character status. It is more a matter of updating the labels than of making controversial changes, after all.

Well, I personally, find Hinjo rather bland. He was all right as the "good paladin", and a minor character, but once he became "Lord Hinjo" he became more arrogant and bossy. I really don't see him getting along with the rest of the Order.

And Daigo isn't bad, but he still seems like a Roy fill-in.

Unless the Giant is going to write an Azure City story, I can't see them being main characters.

By the way, I think people are forgetting that first they have to liberate Azure City from Redcloak before fighting over who runs it. And Lien can easily earn noble status just like Daigo and Kazumi.

[teratorn]

And didn't King Richard leave England to go fight in the Crusades? Hence his brother John took over and Robin Hood had to take him down a peg.

I think Richard the Lionheart spend less than one year of his reign in England. England was just a source of income for him, he spoke French not English, and spent most of his time figthing in France. He even died and was buried there.

Oh, to stay on-topic: I really dislike Daigo and I wish he would go away.

[Paladin29]

The real interesting question is would our lord Daigo let the Order of the Stick become serfs of the glorious house Kato?

ok, ok.. i come back to the topic... I think Daigo is only a reocurring NPC, he and Kazumi makes a cute and secondary romance in the story..:smallsmile:

[teratorn]

The real interesting question is would our lord Daigo let the Order of the Stick become serfs of the glorious house Kato?

You do know that serfs were landbound slave peasants? Belkar would show them who the slaves were...

You probably mean vassals.

[Dunesen]

Robin Hood has been dated to much before and after King John, and any idea he had any dealings with the king is a fantasy. The writers wanted a picture of freedom loving peasant vs nasty ruler and the two were nominated without regard to historical accuracy.

Well, I was referring to the fictional character, since I've never bothered researching the whole debate about whether he really did exist or not. Since we're talking about a fictional series here, I figured it was suitable.