Dealing with Undead as a High(ish)-Level Druid

[Saph]

For a year and a half one of my gaming groups has been playing a D&D 3.5 World's Largest Dungeon campaign. It's just broken the record for longest-running game I've ever played in, as the characters started at level 1 and have just hit level 13.

All kinds of weird and bizarrely lethal stuff has happened, but the current level that we've just entered (which is undead-themed) takes the record for the most deadly encounters I've ever gone up against. So far we've fought:

• An advanced iron golem with an attack bonus of +35 or so that did around 70ish damage on a full attack.
• Two advanced shield guardians, each twice as powerful as the iron golem.
• Three dread wraiths in an enclosed space (which was worse than either of the first two fights).
• A horde of mohrgs (treated as a single creature) with an attack bonus of +205.

So far we've survived by the skin of our teeth, but I'm trying to figure out how to keep it that way. Now that we're inside the gates that the golems were guarding, just about every creature we encounter from here on is going to be undead, and I have to figure out how to have a chance of beating them without dying to an unlucky roll.

Resources:

My character's a 13th-level druid. I've got the Natural Spell, Companion Spellbond, and Dragon Wild Shape feats, a few useful magic items (such as a headband of wisdom +2) and a metric buttload of useless ones (such as a set of 30 magic longswords, ranging from +1 to +3. Don't ask.) I've also got an animal companion, a war-trained riding dog who's survived the whole dungeon with me so far.

I've got access to the spells in the PHB, the Spell Compendium, and the PHB II. Other books are dubious.

Other party members:

- Halfling rogue (with a level of sorcerer).
- Fighter/tempest who specialises in shortswords.
- Paladin.
- Cleric/Radiant Servant of Pelor.

The last is the most qualified to kill undead; unfortunately, his player has been missing for a few months and his character sheet is largely illegible. He tends to get played by someone different every week, with varying levels of effectiveness.

Restrictions

This is the World's Largest Dungeon, which means:

• No magic shops. All we have is what we pick up (which mostly seems to consist of scrolls, potions, and magic swords). This also means no expensive material components. About all I have is some diamond dust.
• Teleportation, summoning, and calling spells don't work.
• Finding places to rest is often difficult.

Ideas so far

The most effective tactic I've found for dealing with undead so far is to wild shape into a Dire Bear, cast Bite of the Werebear and share it with my animal companion, and wade into melee. Since I've just hit 13th level, the other spell I'm about to try out is Sunbeam.

Barkskin and other AC buffs have so far proved absolutely useless, because nearly everything in here has an attack bonus of at least +30. Stoneskin is more useful, but eats diamond dust.

I've got a few other tricks up my sleeve, but could do with suggestions.

- Saph

[Chronos]

Sunbeam seems the obvious choice to me. Four beams, each doing 13d6, plus possibly save or be destroyed, will take care of a lot of undead. But of course, that's not the point. The real point is that you get to be a giant bear with laser beams coming out of your eyes. I mean, seriously, what more could you want?

[Ned the undead]

Enhance wild shape spell on pg 82 of the SpC.
Anger of the Noonday Sun also SpC.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Hours/Level buffs are your friends. As are divinitations. Anything to make you more powerful without using in-combat actions. Check out the SpC for good ones of both.

[Epinephrine]

I'm a big believer in controlling battlefields.

Wall of Thorns could work well, just fill the area with nigh-impassable thorns that you can walk through. Unless the enemies are making DC 25 strength checks easily it at least slows everything down a lot, and you can then pick off stranded critters.

I use Vine Mine to make plants, since there are many useful plant-related spells, and it doesn't hurt to be able to slow enemies down to 1/4 move.

If you know you'll be facing a lot of undead, Spark of Life might be worth using; it'll let the rogue do sneak attack damage, among other benefits.

[Ralfarius]

For what it's worth, just remember:

DRUIDS CAN NOT TURN UNDEAD

[Deth Muncher]

I forget, do druids get to spontaneously convert spells into "Cure X Wounds?" That's almost handy for dealing with undead.

Normally, I'd just say Fenix Down their undead arses, but I don't think that's gonna work here...

And if the RSoP sheet is illegible and the guy hasn't shown up in godknowshowlong, see if the DM will let you try and salvage as much as possible, then rewrite the parts you cant figger out. Then find whoever is best at playing that character, and let them play both.

[Collin152]

I forget, do druids get to spontaneously convert spells into "Cure X Wounds?" That's almost handy for dealing with undead.


Ordinarily, Summon Nature's Ally spells, but the OP mentioned there was no summoning.
So, maybe.

[Chronicled]

I then rewrite the parts you cant figger out.

(Suggested rewrites include every last undead-nuking bonus you can find.)

[Leon]

I forget, do druids get to spontaneously convert spells into "Cure X Wounds?" That's almost handy for dealing with undead.


Not unless they take a feat, that allows them to Drop Spells for Cure spells X/day, where X is the WIS mod, requires a few ranks in Heal





For what it's worth, just remember:
DRUIDS CAN NOT TURN UNDEAD

Unless they have levels in Blighter - Undead Wildshape

[Chronicled]

Not unless they take a feat, that allows them to Drop Spells for Cure spells X/day, where X is the WIS mod, requires a few ranks in Heal

A similar effect is the PH2 Druid Alternate Class feature that swaps spontaneous SNA's for party-wide fast healing. Much weaker than what it replaces, but better than nothing if you're in WLD.

[Leewei]

First off, cast control winds. If a Prayer Bead of Karma is available, boost the spell level.

Next, cast wind walk on your group. If the Radiant Servant is available, have him do this as a 6th level spell instead. The group can take a few rounds to resume normal shape. You stay in the gaseous form, however.

Travel with the group in gaseous form, immune to critical hits and most traps or grapple effects, and with DR 10/magic. Concentrate to change wind patterns at will to control corporeal opponent's movements and to slam flying opponents out of the air (see DMG Windstorm entry -- Hurricane if you used a Prayer Bead). If the situation gets terrible, you can use a 600' move to get the Hell out of Dodge.

If you have the opportunity to shift back into standard form for a moment, you can then cast sunbeam and convert back into gaseous form for superior mobility.

Keep in mind that immunity to negative energy and fear effects are crucial when fighting undead. Heroes' feast and greater heroism are both good for preventing fear-induced troubles. Death ward is absolutely critical. Prepare at least one death ward yourself so you can share it to your animal companion.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Normally, I'd just say Fenix Down their undead arses, but I don't think that's gonna work here...

That would be phoenix down thankyouverymuch.

[namo]

I recommend Murderous Mist (SC) and not only against undead. Since you don't have a Wizard, this will your Glitterdust (it blinds).

Kelpstrand (SC) is good for grappling.

Spark of Life (SC) softens 1 undead for the rogue (or a subsequent Fort-based spell).

[Grey Watcher]

That would be phoenix down thankyouverymuch.

Actually, he's referring to Final Fantasy, wherein they do indeed spell it "Fenix", Something to do with character limits....

[mabriss lethe]

hrrmmm. sun devotion would be good for netting a little extra damage (does your character level in bonus damage against undead for 1 minute) with the added effect of throwing off true sunlight in a 10 ft radius. not great, but something.

[Devin]

Actually, he's referring to Final Fantasy, wherein they do indeed spell it "Fenix", Something to do with character limits....Actually, he's referring to Final Fantasy, wherein they do indeed spell it "Fenix", Something to do with character limits....

Depends on the Final Fantasy. They stopped doing that a long time ago, and all the remakes have corrected spelling.

[Deth Muncher]

Depends on the Final Fantasy. They stopped doing that a long time ago, and all the remakes have corrected spelling.

Heh, yeah...I was thinking of my SNES Final Fantasy...6 I think? Maybe 5. Plus, I believe it was spelled in OotS as Fenix, but I could be wrong.


Edit: Also, I love how this topic went from discussing how to deal with undead to whether or not to spell it as Fenix or Phoenix. =D

[Devin]

Heh, yeah...I was thinking of my SNES Final Fantasy...6 I think? Maybe 5. Plus, I believe it was spelled in OotS as Fenix, but I could be wrong.


Edit: Also, I love how this topic went from discussing how to deal with undead to whether or not to spell it as Fenix or Phoenix. =D

If it was for SNES, it might have been called 3(even though it was really 6). Did it have Terra and Celes?

[Deth Muncher]

If it was for SNES, it might have been called 3(even though it was really 6). Did it have Terra and Celes?

Ah, that's the one. You're entirely right. I can even see the artwork, it's a purple/black background with golden letters saying "Final Fantasy III" and Mog sitting next to them.

[Cuddly]

Actually, he's referring to Final Fantasy, wherein they do indeed spell it "Fenix", Something to do with character limits....

I was thinking GoW.

[Eldritch_Ent]

I prefer referring to FF's by important character rather than number. "FF Kefka", for example.

Also, I think some spells such as a Druid's Firewall type spell deal extra damage to undead... But that may have just been for NWN2, so...

[Collin152]

I prefer referring to FF's by important character rather than number. "FF Kefka", for example.


FF Cid is my favorite.

[Cuddly]

FF Sephiroth is the only one I played, about a year or two after it came out and the fanboygasm finally subsided. It was an awesome game.

[tyckspoon]

FF Cid is my favorite.

That thing you did there, I see it. I like FF Moogle, personally.

[Collin152]

That thing you did there, I see it. I like FF Moogle, personally.

FF Chocobo is good too.

[Deth Muncher]

FF Chocobo is good too.

I'm quite fond of FF Ifrit, although FF Shiva is always fun.

[Keld Denar]

Can you craft at all? Access to CWI from anyone in the party would be amazing. What you'd need to craft is Gauntlets of Ghostfighting, which allow you to avoid incorpoial's 50% damage immunity (ITS NOT A MISSCHANCE!!!!1!!). Also, crafting a lot of other toys, especially for the RSoP (if you can get him to show up) will help.

A neato trick for druids is to cast Fires of Purity (SpC) and then wildshape into a giant flaming octopus. Sure, you have to hold your breath while you fight, but 9 attacks a round for 1d4+5+1d6+13 is not bad. Lots of attacks means you'll have a decent chance of doing some damage each round to incorporials.

Hero's Feast is almost a gimme. Immunity to fear and poison is huge in an undead populated area. Morgh's for example, their paralysis is poison based, as is that of ghouls/ghasts (which get nasty when advanced or given rogue/assassin levels!). All Nightshades have very high DC fear auras which can cripple your party very quickly. A couple things like Nightmare Spinners have death attacks that are fear based as well, which you'd be completely immune to with the help of a balanced breakfast.

As far as your RSoP friend, 13th level would probably look something like Cleric6/RSoP5/SE2. Domains would probably include Sun and Glory, plus one other. Feats might include Empowered Turning for more damage, and Divine Spell Power for turning synergy.

[Thrawn183]

If you can get your hands on some acorns, Fire Seeds is an awesome spell. You have to make sure to make about 3-4 full powered ones (using 3-4 spells of course) and then give them all to the person with the best ranged attack bonus. One full round into combat and you've done a fair bit of fire damage.

Undead are probably the one enemy type you want to use direct damage against. They have so many immunities and the incorporeal ones can negate so many different types of crowd control that those strategies just don't work. On the other hand, undead have deceptively low amounts of HP.

Most useful core spells: Heal, Firestorm, and Deathward
Deathward should protect you from the worst undead abilities and the combination of Heal and Firestorm will let you take on single powerful undead as well as large groups of weaker ones.

[Paul H]

For what it's worth, just remember:

DRUIDS CAN NOT TURN UNDEAD

Hi

Whilst they don't have the specific ability, thay can still 'turn them' into mush.

Do you have access to Complete Mage? If so, then Heart of Earth spell. Lasts 1hr/lvl. Grants 2hp/lvl (max 30), plus some other benefits. Can reduce duration to 1 rnd/lvl for Stoneskin effect, but without expensive components.

You also have the Ironwood spell. Get a large lump of wood & cast Ironwood on it, Woodshape it into a weapon (as per PHB pg 146), then cast Spikes on it for +10 enhancement to damage.

Better yet, you've got 'Enhanced Wildshape' (SpC), so wildshape into a Shambling Mound & cast Thunderhead (SpC Pg 219) on yourself to grant 13D4extra (non specific) Con bonus. (Disappears at 1Con/Hr).

Now when you cast Bite Werebear some of your 'vines' become clawed, your mouth is a 'beak' of bark, so activate your heart of Earth 'stoneskin', cast Lion's Pounce & Charge!

Shambling Mound (With Bite Werebear & con bonus)

Str 37 Dex 12 Con 57 (inc 32 as avg 13D4 from Thunderhead)

AC 28, Plant Traits
Attack: 2xClaws +21 Dam 2D6+13, Bite +19 Dam 3D8+6
Extra 299 HP (23 hp/lvl) from High Con.
+31 to Fort Saves (Druid & highCon)

Of course there's all those 'Drain' abilities to worry about. With that base attack you could cast Heal defensively for 130Hp straight damage. (144Hp with Augment Healing).

Cheers
Paul H

[Nerd-o-rama]

FF Sephiroth is the only one I played, about a year or two after it came out and the fanboygasm finally subsided. It was an awesome game.What? The fanboygasm still hasn't subsided. It's just everyone else in the world fanboys over FF Kefka to counteract it.

Personally, I liked FF Gilgamesh (the first one) for gameplay, even if the story was a little trite.

[Collin152]

What? The fanboygasm still hasn't subsided. It's just everyone else in the world fanboys over FF Kefka to counteract it.


...
You keep saying that word.
I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I like FF Kefka too (my favorite for characters, dialog, and overall plot). But have you seen the VI v. VII flame wars? One of which I probably just started? Totally ridiculous.