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View Full Version : [4e Houserule] Secret Page for others?



squishycube
2008-06-29, 08:34 AM
Would it be reasonable to allow someone casting the Secret Page ritual to have it be readable for someone else and not himself? (Without making a Perception check, obviously.)

vartan
2008-06-29, 09:05 AM
If they aided in performing the ritual, I would say that they should see past the deception.
I'm not sure if I'd allow the ritual performer to name individuals who could read it unless I came up with a number of people to specify or if it was good for the plot- like a notice in a dungeon (or a map to) that read differently to tieflings or something.

squishycube
2008-06-29, 12:34 PM
If they aided in performing the ritual, I would say that they should see past the deception.
I'm not sure if I'd allow the ritual performer to name individuals individual who could read it unless I came up with a number of people to specify or if it was good for the plot- like a notice in a dungeon (or a map to) that read differently to tieflings or something.

Subtle but important difference: I still want only one person to be able to read it, just someone else and not the caster. I am not suggesting power creep. Requiring the able-to-read-person to assist in the ritual makes sense from a fluff perspective.

icefractal
2008-06-29, 09:50 PM
The ritual as written is pretty much useless. You know what does the exact same thing - for free? Writing gibberish on a piece of paper and just memorizing the message. And for PCs, memorization just means writing it down in your game notes.

Unless you know that someone will soon be altering your memory (but not finding the note or making you forget where it was), Secret Page is literally useless.

TheOOB
2008-06-29, 10:09 PM
I see no reason a DM couldn't ad-hoc that by increasing the DC you could make additional ways to bypass the ritual.

Nebo_
2008-06-29, 10:24 PM
Would it be reasonable to allow someone casting the Secret Page ritual to have it be readable for someone else and not himself? (Without making a Perception check, obviously.)

Are you insane? This would completely break the game.


</sarcasm>

Isomenes
2008-06-29, 10:48 PM
The ritual as written is pretty much useless.

Not for its level, and not for the caster as she increases in level. Assuming an 18 Int caster and trained Arcana (what wizard wouldn't have these?), the DC starts at 15 (and that's only if you roll a 1 on the Arcana check). Passive Perception checks are going to start at 15 at the very best, and that's assuming a +5 Wis modifier. Since everything scales at half-level now, how is this useless, again?

Jack Mann
2008-06-29, 11:16 PM
Because you can make it so that even epic characters would find it impossible to read the message by not writing it down in the first place. All you have to do is memorize the message. If you've got 18 Int, that's probably not so difficult.

Other than keeping that pesky rogue from reading your journal, what use is there for this ritual, when you're the only one who can see the message?

I'd build in a "cypher" of sorts, where someone with the "key" can read the message. This gives you opportunity for cool spy stories, too, where players try to capture code keys or prevent the enemy from compromising their communications.

TheDarkOne
2008-06-30, 12:20 AM
The ritual as written is pretty much useless. You know what does the exact same thing - for free? Writing gibberish on a piece of paper and just memorizing the message. And for PCs, memorization just means writing it down in your game notes.

Unless you know that someone will soon be altering your memory (but not finding the note or making you forget where it was), Secret Page is literally useless.

This wouldn't always work, there's lots of times where character knowledge isn't known explicitly by the player. For example, lets say you see some important runes in an ancient ruin somewhere. Doesn't matter what they're for, they're important and other people want to see them. The DM won't necessarily draw them out for you to copy down into your notebook. So you're left to describe in game how your character is going to remember these for later. This example isn't exactly convoluted either, I'm sure if you think about it you can come up with a bunch of stuff that you know you're character knows, but that you don't explicitly know.

icefractal
2008-06-30, 01:08 AM
Yes, but seeing as there are no rules whatsoever for memory, a ritual to augment it isn't really necessary. Nothing says your character can't just have eidetic memory, for instance - especially if you're a super-genius Wizard.

And even disregarding that - the ritual is still niche to the point of absurdity. It relies on a situation where:
1) You're going to forget what the note says.
2) You're not going to forget where the note is.
3) People who you don't want to read the note may find it.
4) Those people won't take, watch, or destroy the note.
5) You'll be able to retrieve and read the note.

And even in that niche - that hyper-specialized niche - it's not a perfect solution. Someone with a good enough Perception skill can still read your note, and anyone can render it useless by replacing it with a copy.


It would be like a ritual, with a non-trivial cost, that allowed you to eat spicy food without getting indigestion. drink a lot without getting a hangover, or avoid having freckles - in the absence of any rules for that stuff, your character can already do that if you want them to.

Isomenes
2008-06-30, 11:33 AM
Because you can make it so that even epic characters would find it impossible to read the message by not writing it down in the first place. All you have to do is memorize the message. If you've got 18 Int, that's probably not so difficult.

But this doesn't cover the case of necessary writing, i.e., spells or rituals in books or scrolls. Myriad reasons exist for PCs and NPCs to keep these hidden in a given setting. This in particular is what I had in mind, and I guess I should have mentioned it.