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Tokiko Mima
2008-06-30, 04:24 PM
Recently my D&D (3.5) group was playing through the end of Expedition to the Demonweb Pits and were placed in the Grand Convocation Chamber. Another teammate managed to talk all the assembled Demon Lords into attacking their rivals the moment the fighting broke out. The result was a huge general melee, during which Lolth stepped in personally (well, as personally as an aspect of a Goddess gets) to quell the riot. I got to be lucky enough to be nearby with my hellfire glaivelock, and I burned my Hellfire damage, assorted swift action +Eldritch blast magic items, Quicken SLA and Empower SLA to the tune of some truly massive damage (We stopped counting in the 350's) and the DM declared Lolth well and truly slain.

In the confusion a lot of the other Demon Lords died too, allowing us to escape to safety through the Celestial Cyst. A question that came up is: How much damage did we actually do, since gods and Demon Lords regenerate their aspects? Is there a standard time we have before the Queen of Spiders returns and tries to hunt us all down? What about the other Demon Lords we killed (Graz'zt, Demogorgon, Yeenoghu, and Fraz-Urb'luu)?

Person_Man
2008-06-30, 04:32 PM
I got to be lucky enough to be nearby with my hellfire glaivelock, and I burned my Hellfire damage, assorted swift action +Eldritch blast magic items, Quicken SLA and Empower SLA to the tune of some truly massive damage (We stopped counting in the 350's) and the DM declared Lolth well and truly slain.

Not sure about your other questions. But I'd note that you only get one Swift or Immediate action per round. So you couldn't use "assorted" Swift actions to kill a goddess (or her avatar).

puppyavenger
2008-06-30, 04:34 PM
Recently my D&D (3.5) group was playing through the end of Expedition to the Demonweb Pits and were placed in the Grand Convocation Chamber. Another teammate managed to talk all the assembled Demon Lords into attacking their rivals the moment the fighting broke out. The result was a huge general melee, during which Lolth stepped in personally (well, as personally as an aspect of a Goddess gets) to quell the riot. I got to be lucky enough to be nearby with my hellfire glaivelock, and I burned my Hellfire damage, assorted swift action +Eldritch blast magic items, Quicken SLA and Empower SLA to the tune of some truly massive damage (We stopped counting in the 350's) and the DM declared Lolth well and truly slain.

In the confusion a lot of the other Demon Lords died too, allowing us to escape to safety through the Celestial Cyst. A question that came up is: How much damage did we actually do, since gods and Demon Lords regenerate their aspects? Is there a standard time we have before the Queen of Spiders returns and tries to hunt us all down? What about the other Demon Lords we killed?
do you mean aspect or avatar? because an aspect is just a mid-level lesser version with the same personality and goals. I'm pretty sure that they can create those on a whim.

Avatars, I've got no idea.

Frosty
2008-06-30, 04:34 PM
Not sure about your other questions. But I'd note that you only get one Swift or Immediate action per round. So you couldn't use "assorted" Swift actions to kill a goddess (or her avatar).

Not always true. Although unless this is gestalt and she somehow has Ruby Knight Vindicator levels, you're probably right.

Tokiko Mima
2008-06-30, 04:39 PM
Not sure about your other questions. But I'd note that you only get one Swift or Immediate action per round. So you couldn't use "assorted" Swift actions to kill a goddess (or her avatar).

I have more than one item that adds +Eldritch Blast damage is what I meant (Warlock Sceptre and gloves of Eldritch Admixture). I didn't use them all at once in a single round. Sorry if I unintentionally implied I did. They weren't the bulk of the damage anyway, it was mostly Hellfire Blast + Eldritch Blast + Eldritch Glaive + Empower SLA + Quicken SLA mostly.

Just Alex
2008-06-30, 05:00 PM
I dunno what kind of wussy dieties your world has, but most dieties don't care if their aspect is killed. All it really does is attract their attention. And trust me on this one, you don't want Demogorgon to notice you exist.

mostlyharmful
2008-06-30, 05:01 PM
It's not so much a matter of time (both Avatars and Aspects are made by a Diety and their destruction doesn't stop the mind behind them from acting) so much as of face (in the grand old "Mafia-esque" sense of the word). This was a bit of the god sent down to sort out an arguement between a bunch of demon lords and it got capped by a mortal:smallmad:, who then got away scott free.:smallfurious:

Lolth just got spanked publically while her interests are spread all to hell and gone literally, she doesn't have the time, energy or manpower to go make a big bloody specticle of your guy instantaneously which is generally the only reliable way to keep your rep intact after something like this. My slant is that although your PC has picked up a long term resentment from the whole church of Lolth in particular and the whole of the Drow race in general they probably won't get immediate responses since Lolth will be busy banging uppity heads together in the background. That being said expect to be targetted by a selection of the most vindictive assasins, manipulators and unholy-psychotic-rabid-badass-gits who regard "collatoral damage" as a pleasent bonus to come after your team from now until the end of time.

Frosty
2008-06-30, 05:02 PM
Slaying an aspect does hurt the deities indirectly. It costs time and exp to craft those things (a LOT of time) so they can't just sacrifice aspectw willy-nilly. that said, the deity itself is not harmed physically, and is now angry at you. Good luck.

Tokiko Mima
2008-06-30, 05:16 PM
So what you're saying is I either need to deal with the situation directly i.e. find a way to slay them outright. Second question: How does a mortal actually slay a God?

Or I could see if there are any long term time-shares available in Celestia. That's probably the better option. :smallbiggrin:

Talya
2008-06-30, 05:20 PM
I burned my Hellfire damage, assorted swift action +Eldritch blast magic items, Quicken SLA and Empower SLA to the tune of some truly massive damage (We stopped counting in the 350's) and the DM declared Lolth well and truly slain.

Lolth's avatar has 820 hit points. (Faiths & Pantheons, pg. 41). Should have kept counting.

Tokiko Mima
2008-06-30, 05:28 PM
Lolth's avatar has 820 hit points. (Faiths & Pantheons, pg. 41). Should have kept counting.

Is that the Hammer aspect? This was the Envoy of Lolth, and I think the Hammer of Lolth was going to come, but it kinda decided not to when the Envoy was destroyed. Probably a wise move, since I still had 2 Quicken/Empower SLAs left and enough buffs to last through any single melee attack.

Grommen
2008-06-30, 05:30 PM
First off, if your in the Demonweb Pits your in the Abyss. I would assume your dealing with the powers that be in person. And as far as I know only gods can create an aspect. Demon Lords are just the top of the food chain, they are not gods. Close, but not quite.

However that is not the thing I'm havening an issue with.

So lets see if I get this straight? You went to her house, craped in her sandbox, trashed the place, and then left without even tossing a copper piece to the barkeep for the mess? And you killed off several of the most powerful creatures in the Abyss, wile you were in the Abyss?

And all your wondering is when they will get around to killing you?

How about 30 seconds after the last breath was drawn continuing non stop until you die. Your talking about creatures that literally have limitless forces at their fingertips.

Not only that but you may have just ended the Blood War due to the massive power vacuum you just created. Within months the world as you knew it would be ripped apart.

On a personal note what the hell character did you do that with? I want to make sure it's banned from my game, just encase we ever find Orcus or something. We have to leave one lord alive.

Tokiko Mima
2008-06-30, 05:41 PM
First off, if your in the Demonweb Pits your in the Abyss. I would assume your dealing with the powers that be in person. And as far as I know only gods can create an aspect. Demon Lords are just the top of the food chain, they are not gods. Close, but not quite.

However that is not the thing I'm havening an issue with.

So lets see if I get this straight? You went to her house, craped in her sandbox, trashed the place, and then left without even tossing a copper piece to the barkeep for the mess? And you killed off several of the most powerful creatures in the Abyss, wile you were in the Abyss?

And all your wondering is when they will get around to killing you?

How about 30 seconds after the last breath was drawn continuing non stop until you die. Your talking about creatures that literally have limitless forces at their fingertips.

Not only that but you may have just ended the Blood War due to the massive power vacuum you just created. Within months the world as you knew it would be ripped apart.

On a personal note what the hell character did you do that with? I want to make sure it's banned from my game, just encase we ever find Orcus or something. We have to leave one lord alive.

Orcus actually sponsored our group (we had invitations to the Grand Convocations signed by him) because he wanted to watch Graz'zt and Lolth's Pact fall apart. I think he figured there's no better way to shame a Goddess than having a bunch of lowly mortals bust up an important meeting on that same Goddesses home turf.

Of course, our group was there because we didn't want all the respective Demon Lords to join forces, it's better (for both the Celestial Planes and the Nine Hells) when they fight each other. We were there to destroy the peace accord, and the Demon Lords and Lolth were just happy collateral damage.

Come to think of it, Lolth would probably be even more angry at Orcus than she would with my group. We were just agents doing his dirty work from her perspective. We didn't even touch the diety herself, except in a social sense. We killed her rep and made her look like a n00b, so to speak.


On a personal note what the hell character did you do that with? I want to make sure it's banned from my game, just encase we ever find Orcus or something. We have to leave one lord alive.

It was a Hellfire Glaivelock, specialized for doing an insane amount of burst damage to anything vulnerable to touch attacks (Which is most things, but not Pale Night!) It's a Warlock 6/Ruathar 3/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3 build. This particular one was a Pixie Hellfire Glaivelock, a nasty variation that has access to a ton of SLA's, native flight, and greater invis at will.

I prebuffed with Divine Power from a scroll (UMD is awesome sometimes) and used Eldritch Glaive to make my E.B. into a melee full attack. You end up with something like 6 touch attacks (3 Quickened, 3 not quickened) dealing 9d6 Eldritch damage (+2d6 from Greater Chausible of Fell Power, FYI), + 10d6 Hellfire damage. Throw on an additional +2d6 or +4d6 from items for 3 of those attacks then Empower those same 3 attacks. Average damage should be around 509.25 to 519.75 ish depending on how many charges are burned off your swift action items. Costs 2 Constitution damage to do this, so be ready to lose HP, unless you prebuff for it.

ColonelFuster
2008-06-30, 07:10 PM
Someone please correct me if i'm wrong on this one, because it might be something that my old DM has as a house rule... but can't you only make one, single, individual spell attack per base attack bonus thing? I remember cleary- not thinking quicken spell was that cool- after my DM said that I could only do one ghoul touch a round because my poor magus' BAB was currently +5 (at 12th level, no less). Like, he said I could make two of them when I got to +6/+1, and that the second one was subject to the -5 penalty thing.
Gosh, it's been so long since i've been on that side of the screen, I can't remember.

KillianHawkeye
2008-06-30, 07:10 PM
Is that 6 attacks in 1 round?? Because you can only Quicken it once per round.

And actually, most Demon Princes and Dukes of Hell can create an Aspect. These are detailed in Fiendish Codex 1 and 2.

erikun
2008-06-30, 08:00 PM
As someone who has actually leafed through Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, I will say this: killing an avatar does not kill off the diety/demon lord behind the avatar.

Also, Lolth will be both pissed and busy. I'm not saying anything else, for fear of giving away too much.

Talya
2008-06-30, 08:14 PM
First off, if your in the Demonweb Pits your in the Abyss.

This is faerun. I'm not sure when the adventure is set compared to the War of the Spider Queen novels, but.......by the end of the novels, the Demonweb Pits are no longer part of the abyss.



So lets see if I get this straight? You went to her house, craped in her sandbox, trashed the place, and then left without even tossing a copper piece to the barkeep for the mess?

Lolth isn't really at the top of her game right now...and her actual home is in flux.


How about 30 seconds after the last breath was drawn continuing non stop until you die. Your talking about creatures that literally have limitless forces at their fingertips.

However they are not all that organized, or unified.




Not only that but you may have just ended the Blood War due to the massive power vacuum you just created. Within months the world as you knew it would be ripped apart.

Not really. Goddess or not, Lolth was a tiny part of the Abyss, and only ruling one layer among infinity at that.

JeminiZero
2008-06-30, 08:50 PM
The solution is obvious. You must now obtain a Viper Familiar, invoke Pazuzu, and proceed with Pun Pun ascension.

Alleine
2008-06-30, 09:35 PM
Is that 6 attacks in 1 round?? Because you can only Quicken it once per round.

Eldritch Glaive is an invocation that lets you make a full attack with your EB taking normal penalties for a full attack, so if you can normally attack 3 times in a round, quicken another Eldritch Glaive and you'll get 6 total.

Recaiden
2008-06-30, 10:29 PM
I think that gods can't create aspects by themselves, or maybe just almost never do. An avatar comes back a year after it is killed. However, any god with an avatar has at least 5 of them. Avatars have 1/2 the strength of the original, each. If the demonweb pits are still in the abyss, and those were the actual demons, those other demons aren't coming back, but Lolth can get back at you immediately, although she may be too busy to do so. Lolth herself can use Alter Reality, so if she decides that it's worth it to kill you, its probably over. Maybe not, though. Go with mind shield. If they have to work harder to kill you, you could live.

Tokiko Mima
2008-06-30, 10:44 PM
Someone please correct me if i'm wrong on this one, because it might be something that my old DM has as a house rule... but can't you only make one, single, individual spell attack per base attack bonus thing? I remember cleary- not thinking quicken spell was that cool- after my DM said that I could only do one ghoul touch a round because my poor magus' BAB was currently +5 (at 12th level, no less). Like, he said I could make two of them when I got to +6/+1, and that the second one was subject to the -5 penalty thing.
Gosh, it's been so long since i've been on that side of the screen, I can't remember.

Well, I'm thinking that's either a special attack spell, or your DM was houseruling. Spells generally only make one attack in a round and therefore use a standard action. Some, like magic missile, can make more than a single attack but it's usually based on your caster level, not BAB.

A Warlock's greatest weakness is that his attack is a standard action single attack. Without Eldritch Glaive the most a warlock can do is quicken one Eldritch Blast and use a second one with their normal standard action. That's only two attacks, so it's not all that impressive and it's limited to three times a day by the text of the Quicken SLA Feat. You cannot make a full-attack, or even standard attack with Eldritch Blast because it's not a weapon, it's a spell (or spell-like ability).

As the above poster correctly points out, Eldritch Glaive is an awesome invocation for higher level warlocks because it allows you to break that restriction. You can make a number of attacks according to your BAB (2 at +6, 3 at +11, and 4 at +16.) However, even though it acts like it's an attack, it's not. It's still a spell that requires a full round action, not a full attack action. It can be interrupted, it provokes AoO's if used while threatened and aside from casting time follows all the normal rules for SLA's.

However, in some cases this is an advantage! Quicken SLA is exactly that case. Once a round Quicken SLA reduces the casting time of an SLA to a free action, not a Swift action like the metamagic Quicken Spell feat does. Thus you can combine Quicken SLA and Empower SLA in the same round.

In this way, you can obtain twice as many attacks as you would normally be entitled to: it would not be possible to do this with an full-attack action because regular attacks cannot be Quickened, but then if Eldritch blast was an attack, then Warlocks wouldn't be considered weak in the first place. It's kind of circular.

So if your DM objects, tell him that he can look at it one of two ways. Either (A) Eldritch Blast and it's resulting Blast Shapes is a spell and can be quickened (This is RAW, FYI), or (B) Eldritch Blast is a weapon attack, in which case you can make full-attacks with it, and launch multiple ranged blasts without recourse to needing Eldritch Glaive at all (in this case Eldritch Chain becomes as insanely powerful as Eldritch Glaive ever was and Hideous Blow becomes a reasonable option.)

KillianHawkeye
2008-07-01, 07:46 AM
Eldritch Glaive is an invocation that lets you make a full attack with your EB taking normal penalties for a full attack, so if you can normally attack 3 times in a round, quicken another Eldritch Glaive and you'll get 6 total.

D'oh! For some reason I was thinking you'd just get an extra attack by Quickening it. Thanks for setting me straight. :smallsmile:

Person_Man
2008-07-01, 09:29 AM
Quicken SLA is exactly that case. Once a round Quicken SLA reduces the casting time of an SLA to a free action, not a Swift action like the metamagic Quicken Spell feat does. Thus you can combine Quicken SLA and Empower SLA in the same round.

Incorrect. Quicken Spell-Like Ability was updated in the Monster Manual 3, page 207. It's a Swift Action.

They created Swift and Immediate Actions to specifically address the problem of "action breaking" builds (like this one). And in general, spells, feats, and abilities that were written as Free Actions should be updated to be a Swift or Immediate Action, as appropriate. (Though they never bothered to do a complete audit and update everything - too busy working on 4th ed I guess).

Also, unless you're 20th level or have a Wand of Divine Power, a Warlock's mediocre BAB prevents Eldritch Glaive from being abused too badly.

EndlessWrath
2008-07-01, 10:45 AM
So I just ran a game called we called "Godstorm" after the great RISK game... which the players had to deal with the Direct influences of Gods...and Titans...

In one of those great NPC Cinematic sequences, that I know you players always love watching, The Aspect of Boccob takes form in his most powerful cleric and fights off the Titan Wrath. Wrath kills the aspect..thereby ending the hold Boccob has over the mortal world...for the time being.

I know I wasn't exactly using stats for zed thing but here's where in comes in handy...

I assume in Normal D&D a god has X many Aspects...but they never actually show up themselves. I believe that they only can manifest Aspects to venture into the mortal realm since they can't go into the world themselves...due to the idea they would unravel space and time and destroy the world you players love.

You've weakened Lolth's grip on the world...and although i don't know how your character feels about the drow...I would say thats a plus...but only cause I don't like spiders :tongue:

this of course is just a theory of mine... I'm not telling you how the game will run or how D&D actually works.

Tokiko Mima
2008-07-01, 11:23 AM
Incorrect. Quicken Spell-Like Ability was updated in the Monster Manual 3, page 207. It's a Swift Action.

They created Swift and Immediate Actions to specifically address the problem of "action breaking" builds (like this one). And in general, spells, feats, and abilities that were written as Free Actions should be updated to be a Swift or Immediate Action, as appropriate. (Though they never bothered to do a complete audit and update everything - too busy working on 4th ed I guess).

Huh... and I though MM3 was just an advertisement vehicle for Eberron. Well, not a big deal. They didn't make Empower SLA into a swift action (they even made it not a free action at all!), so you can still Quicken/Empower SLA a Eldritch Blast: you just lose your swift action and thus can't benefit from any charged +d6 eldritch damage magic items that round. That was only 21 average damage out of 521.

Edit: Now that I think about it, they actually did my EB combo a favor! Now that Empower SLA is not limited to once a round I can Empower both SLA's in the same round and do a hundred more damage, whereas with the old definition I couldn't use it more than once in the same round.

And if I can find a source of extra swift actions like Ruby Vindicator, I could theoretically pump out Quickened Hellfire Blasts almost limitlessly. I'd just need a lot of Feats, or semi-homebrew Rods of Quicken SLA.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-07-01, 11:41 AM
Could have been worse. You could have one-shotted her by teleporting a sword into her heart.

(Obscure Giantitp references for the win.)

But are you sure you can Quicken Eldritch Glaive and get a whole extra Full Attack? That seems more than a little broken, but I don't have the literal reading of the Eldritch Glaive invocation handy, so RAW might support it.

toddex
2008-07-01, 12:03 PM
You know what would be awesome. A story where an avatar decides it wants to over throw and steal the god who made its power.

Tokiko Mima
2008-07-01, 12:12 PM
Could have been worse. You could have one-shotted her by teleporting a sword into her heart.

(Obscure Giantitp references for the win.)

I'll have to try that next time. :smalltongue:


But are you sure you can Quicken Eldritch Glaive and get a whole extra Full Attack? That seems more than a little broken, but I don't have the literal reading of the Eldritch Glaive invocation handy, so RAW might support it.

You can because it's not a full-attack. Eldritch Glaive is an invocation that has an effect much like a melee full-attack, but it's functionally the same as any other spell. An Eldritch Glaive may look like a weapon when manifested, but it's more akin to a magic missile or a melee touch attack spell in how it works. It's just a bit unusual in that part of the spell is based on your BAB.

Mewtarthio
2008-07-01, 12:15 PM
You know what would be awesome. A story where an avatar decides it wants to over throw and steal the god who made its power.

I'm fairly certain that gods can recall the divine power granted to their avatars, thus not only reducing the avatar to a mere mortal but also boosting the god's own power.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-07-01, 12:26 PM
I'll have to try that next time. :smalltongue:I really wouldn't.

You can because it's not a full-attack. Eldritch Glaive is an invocation that has an effect much like a melee full-attack, but it's functionally the same as any other spell. An Eldritch Glaive may look like a weapon when manifested, but it's more akin to a magic missile or a melee touch attack spell in how it works. It's just a bit unusual in that part of the spell is based on your BAB.Yeah, RAW's probably on your side, I'm just saying that RAW is a little borked in this case. A personal opinion, not a statement that "you're doin it wrong".

Grommen
2008-07-01, 09:34 PM
It was a Hellfire Glaivelock, specialized for doing an insane amount of burst damage to anything vulnerable to touch attacks (Which is most things, but not Pale Night!) It's a Warlock 6/Ruathar 3/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3 build. This particular one was a Pixie Hellfire Glaivelock, a nasty variation that has access to a ton of SLA's, native flight, and greater invis at will.

I prebuffed with Divine Power from a scroll (UMD is awesome sometimes) and used Eldritch Glaive to make my E.B. into a melee full attack. You end up with something like 6 touch attacks (3 Quickened, 3 not quickened) dealing 9d6 Eldritch damage (+2d6 from Greater Chausible of Fell Power, FYI), + 10d6 Hellfire damage. Throw on an additional +2d6 or +4d6 from items for 3 of those attacks then Empower those same 3 attacks. Average damage should be around 509.25 to 519.75 ish depending on how many charges are burned off your swift action items. Costs 2 Constitution damage to do this, so be ready to lose HP, unless you prebuff for it.

Whow I don't under stand a %@@% you just said but I'm sure that if a player ever figured out how to do 500+ points of damage in a single round I would find a rock from space capable of smashing him into the ground and end the suffering of everyone involved. However to each is own. I just do not understand why you play when you have clearly found a way to win every fight. Did I get that right he is 15th level too?

Anyway. Aspects or no. You just conspired against far too many major players in the abyss. Their revenge should be swift and painful. Hope no one knows where you hid mother. Cause they should be hot on your butts shortly.

Hyrm. Just re-read part of the Fiendish book, they can create aspects. Well bro it really sucks to be you, cause at least if you had killed the demons themselves you would have gotten a head start.

Best of luck to ya. :smallwink:

Tokiko Mima
2008-07-02, 02:27 PM
Well, looking on the bright side of all this, I don't think they actually know who we are, since we were all disguised by a veil spell to look like undead emissaries of Orcus. The only Aspect there that had true seeing was Pale Night (and I don't think it was her aspect.. I think it was the real Pale Night), and I think she was so insulted that Lolth allowed a mortal int the proceedings to try swat her that she won't be talking to any Demon Lords for quite some time.

Orcus, of course knows who we are but as the person who let us in to spoil the whole thing in the first place he doesn't have any reason to. Graz'zt knows too, but revealing to any other Demon Lord our identities is proof that he's as responsible for what happened as Orcus. He might let it out through other channels just to get help, but I think it's more like a demon to want to catch and torture us himself. So we have to look out for Graz'zt now. No trips to Zelatar for us!

Mostly I was wondering where the rules were for deities and powerful fiends creating aspects and avatars so I would know how long we have before we have to start worrying about the Demon Lords and Spider Goddess we killed. :smallwink:

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-07-02, 04:23 PM
Whow I don't under stand a %@@% you just said but I'm sure that if a player ever figured out how to do 500+ points of damage in a single round I would find a rock from space capable of smashing him into the ground and end the suffering of everyone involved. However to each is own. I just do not understand why you play when you have clearly found a way to win every fight. Did I get that right he is 15th level too?He burned a lot of daily resources, Con points, a scroll, took several turns, and still had to be optimized as a glass cannon. High level D&D gets you fun stuff like that when you go nova.

EndlessWrath
2008-07-02, 04:43 PM
Mostly I was wondering where the rules were for deities and powerful fiends creating aspects and avatars so I would know how long we have before we have to start worrying about the Demon Lords and Spider Goddess we killed. :smallwink:

Deities and demigods handbook. its a D&D 3.5 book.

quite useful actually, giving 4 pantheons of gods + rules for gods including how to make your own.

Rizban
2008-07-02, 07:00 PM
So what you're saying is I either need to deal with the situation directly i.e. find a way to slay them outright. Second question: How does a mortal actually slay a God?Take control of a gate. Kill the Dark One first.

Albonor
2008-07-02, 10:33 PM
Doesn't FR have a special rule that Gods cannot kill other gods followers themselves? Because they are powered by the faith of their followers?

if so, you are safe from the aspect (close enough to the real thing), but not from 10 000 anti-drizzt wannabees. Also, IIRC, the demon lords aspect were like CR 10, so no big deal for your group. Hell, if you can one-shot Lolth, you should be able to one-shot most of the real ones!

hamishspence
2008-07-03, 05:17 AM
Actually Deities and Demigods is 3rd ed, not 3.5, but a free update does exist on WOTC.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-07-03, 06:55 AM
And some of the rules (but naturally, no flavor), are available in 3.5 form as part of the SRD.