View Full Version : Creating a new system For GundamD20. Need Help!

2008-06-30, 07:18 PM
So I've quit the game I've been running for a year and a half now, as it has died several times and I feel i need to run another of my hundreds of campaign ideas.

My next project to tackle is a Gundam Wing Based game...it was a popular Anime Show a few years back that dealt in a futuristic world, where people pilot Mobile Suits (big robots). I don't like any of the current systems I've seen as they really haven't fit in... So I'm gonna make a new system.

And I need all the help I can get to make this new system.

The biggest problem right now is The Gundam HP, AC, and DMG for combat.

NEED THE HELP!!! thank you

2008-06-30, 07:36 PM
BESM Tri-Stat. Congratulations, you win.

D20 Future (an add-on to d20 Modern) has mecha rules, but not terrifically good ones. Mekton Zeta is a game system built entirely with mecha in mind, but I find it a bit too complicated (great if you're a BattleTech fan, though.) Seriously, I'm having fun with a BESM Gundam-based game right now. Well, Super Robot Wars-based, but it's the same thing really.

Alternatively, make up some wacky magic items for D&D and go with that (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77721).

If you've already checked all these out and don't like them, I guess I need a better basis to start from. A basic d20 ruleset, I guess? i.e. d20 Modern with serial numbers filed off?

2008-06-30, 08:16 PM
I've considered multiple rules from many of those... i gotta ask though. Whats BESM Tri-Stat?

I have been basing my current work on Naruto D20...which kinda bases its main idea on D20 modern.

My idea is to have several Base Classes: Strong hero, Fast hero, tough hero, smart hero, wise hero, and charismatic hero.
Every odd level you gain a Class Talent...relating to the class itself. So Fast heroes would have the talent "quick reflexes" or something to that extent (still working on those).
Now Before someone says "people will only wanna play smart heroes for Tactics to better pilot skill!" Each class will have talents for pilots and non-pilots. I'm figuring that in.

There will of course be prestige classes... Advanced pilot and OZ specialists are the first 2 I'm making.

We're treating the Gundam's as creatures, using puppet buy system. When making a puppet in Naruto D20 one gets X Many Weapon Points, Y many Utility points, and Z many Free points.
You can spend these points for equipment and such for the Gundam. (or mobile suit if you wanna run a soldier game?)
I definitely have my heart set on Gundanium alloy being used for Damage Reduction... how much i don't know yet...as we haven't figured out combat.
We have 3 base thoughts right now:
1) all damage in D20's. obviously health will be huge... but you won't need a ton of dice.
2) all damage in d10's.
3) spread out damage... beam sword being 4d8 or something.

Welcome any criticism or ideas... Like... REALLY welcome ideas.

2008-06-30, 08:54 PM
Hm. Well, I've never looked at Naruto d20, but I do know d20 Modern/Future (and incidentally, I'd imagine most people would be Strong Heroes for BAB or Fast Heroes for Defense and quick entry to shooting-oriented Advanced Classes). I also don't know Wing beyond a few generalities, as I've only really watched Original and Zeta, and a smidgen of G (so far).

If you're going to be going d20, it makes sense to use D&D-style weapon damage (X number of Y sided dice), although it probably wouldn't be too much of a hassle to make all damage in d6, d8, or d10. Pilots would have HP as regular characters, and mecha would have their own HP. Defense comes from the pilot, with a modifier from the mecha (size modifiers to Defense and Attack, if nothing else).

Important stats for a mech:
Attack and Defense modifiers (maybe just from size)
Any stat modifiers to the pilot (people in mobile suits have more raw strength, and due to AMBAC, probably more gross dexterity than otherwise)
Hit Points
Damage Reduction
Equipment, including weapons, armor, and features like a self-destruct system, life support, communications, etc.

Look at d20 Modern for bases for your Advanced Classes, as that's the easiest way to balance them. Martial Artist and Gunslinger are probably the two you want to look closest at, as is d0 Modern's Field Officer. D20 Modern also has Mecha Jockey and Starfighter Pilot (I think...) Advanced Classes, but they're kind of lame.

2008-07-01, 12:42 AM
Alright So What We've Got For

-Defense Is a Basic Pilot Dex+Mech Dex+Manuverability Modifier{Different Mech Types will receive different Modifiers and Base Equipment Will Affect this. Boosters and the Like}+10

-Hp We're thinking of Doing as a Base Hp value for the Frame of the Mech and then Additional Health Being Added as a Result of Different Armor And Equipment. Also, a Base Value That Varies from Class to Class will be added as the Pilot Levels.

-To Hit Is Modified By the Pilot's Stat+The Mech's Stat+Any Additonal Equipment{I.E. - A Targeting Computer for Ranged}

-Armor Is Used as a Base Damage Reducer for Oncoming Hits Rather than Adding to Defense

-And as Stated Above, Depending on the Slots Available in the Mech It'll Determine the weapons and Utility by a Point System.

We're just Trying to Hammer out the Main Basis for the Rule System And Get the Classes done. Equipment Is a Cinch to Finish Quickly as well as weapons. We just Havn't Figured out how to Do damage that well yet.

Criticism Accepted.Welcomed.

2008-07-01, 11:01 AM
...Lacus? No, wait, wrong series.

Anyway, that all sounds about right. Adding HP to a mech based on pilot level doesn't make much logical sense, but it fits the genre perfectly. As far as the basis of the rule system, go d20 if that's what you're comfortable with. There's no particular reason not to, unless you don't like classes or levels (and d20 can even do without that, it's just a bit more work to make it point-buy).

As for classes...I'd go with d20 Modern base classes as suggested in the original post, with d20 Modern-style Advanced Classes available early. You may want to take inspiration for some of your Advanced Classes from here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AcePilot), a nice compilation of "Ace Pilot" styles posted on TVTropes. Of course, those archetypes could also be interpreted as Strong Hero, Fast Hero, Fast Hero, and Tough Hero...

And damage? Easy mode: just assign D&D-style damage dice to a given weapon. Give feats and class features that up the damage of particular weapons, especially ranged weapons, by some dice (such as Double Tap and several Gunslinger class features from d20 Modern). Hard mode: Toughness Saves from Mutants & Masterminds. Those deserve a post to themselves for explanation if the thought intrigues you.

2008-07-01, 11:16 AM
I'd suggest finding a copy of Jovian Chronicles by DP9. If you like designing mecha find a copy of Mekton by R. Talsorian Games.

Please use either of these games long before you try shoehorning yet another genre into the D20 boot.

2008-07-01, 11:22 AM
Hey, mecha have already been shoehorned into d20. I'm just trying to help them refine it into something better. And I did mention Mekton (and Big Eyes Small Mouth), although I forgot about Jovian Chronicles. Jovian Chronicles is pretty space operatic, though I don't really know the system.

2008-07-01, 02:15 PM
Try the book d20 Mecha. It's got very good rules for building anything (rowboats to space colonies, with a special bit on Giant Robots (Gundams)). It even has core classes (mecha pilot).

Plus, it's designed to bolt on to any d20 system (modern, d&d, OGL) or BESM.

2008-07-02, 12:37 AM
Please use either of these games long before you try shoehorning yet another genre into the D20 boot.

I appreciate the suggestions...and I hate to say it, but my co-workers and I are too far into it by this point to actually give up and run a different system now... we worked a lot on it today and made huge steps.

To summarize all we have:
- Damage is all in d10s. Certain weapons will give more dice for damage...others will give bonus's to hit. Lots of other details...but not getting into it.
- We've made a VERY strong system for equipping Mobile Suits. Additionally...figured out a way to pay for new parts, receive payment for missions, while keeping it very simple. I'm talking really easy.
-We've decided a strong base for combat in general and a point system for the durability of items, and ways to differentiate items that can harm and cannot harm the Mobile suits.
-We've decided multiple Base classes (although, most only level up to level 10. Epic still at 20 though.)
-decided few feats...which are very important as this system will give you many. We need a lot more.
-Finished skills.

-ideas for Prestige and Advanced classes
-ideas for Feats- we have some...and many from normal D20 will suffice. but we need feats focused more on helping the pilot or helping him pilot the gundam... so pilot feats to be precise.
-ideas for weapons to design. Other parts are also welcome. Especially: Radars, Tracking systems, utility extras, shields, and any other crazy stuff you guys can think of putting on a giant robot!!!
-differences between Gundam pilot and OZ soldiers...both being played by PC's.

2008-07-02, 01:19 AM
Hm. Well, I'm not in perfect agreement with what you've got so far (for example, I'm wondering why you need to define anti-MS weaponry as such...weapons with low enough damage simply won't be effective, why equipment damage would be done with anything other than HPs and Sunder attempts as they are in d20), but I'll continue to throw out advice on what you say you need.

Let me tackle your need list in reverse order:

Difference between Gundam and OZ pilots. Mostly equipment. The Gundams of Wing are way, way, way more powerful than any grunt units, or even Ace Customs, as far as I know the show. Gundam pilots are also probably higher level than anyone but the enemy's top aces (despite being 15 year old kids).

Weapons. I imagine you'd start by comparing and statting weapons from the show. Start with mass-produced weapons and work your way up to the stuff that vaporizes colonies, and get an impression of what each can do to an enemy machine. I can throw out ideas for other equipment, but the sky's really the limit on what kind of things you can do there.

Feats. Damage-boost ranged weapons. This is a problem in every d20 game: it's too difficult to raise ranged weapon damage late-game, and beam rifles and the like are very important in Real Robot shows. Double Tap and Burst Fire are good, you might want to have improved versions of them. Or, potentially, allow Power Attack to work with ranged weapons (aiming for harder-to-hit, vital spots). Feats for mecha piloting...what's needed here? Bonuses to defense for dodging, bonuses to accuracy, bonuses to the ability to pull crazy aerobatic maneuvers? The first two are already present (albeit crappy), the latter one is probably a good one.

Advanced Classes. Sniper. Specializes in ranged damage and evasion at the cost of one-on-one abilities. Field Officer. Already present in d20 Modern. Ambusher. Specializes on surprising and getting the drop on enemies. Defender. Soaks up damage. Char clone. Can move 3x faster than other pilots.

2008-07-02, 01:48 AM
I thank you for your help and input Nerd-o-rama.

Hm. Well, I'm not in perfect agreement with what you've got so far (for example, I'm wondering why you need to define anti-MS weaponry as such...weapons with low enough damage simply won't be effective, why equipment damage would be done with anything other than HPs and Sunder attempts as they are in d20)

I ought to clarify. I owe you that much indeed.

Weapons aren't determined as anti MS or something like that. Rather, each weapon is determined a rank.
0- Knife or sword.
1- a pistol or perhaps a machine gun. (Human size)
2- High Powered Sniper rifle or a small explosive. (Human Size)
3- Rocket launcher, Gatling gun...etc. (vehicle or human size)
4- Tank rocket launcher, low powered MS weapons.
5- Medium and High powered MS weapons... like Beam Swords, Machine guns, beam rifles, Rockets and such.
6- the Beam cannon (affects all)

A weapon must have a rank > or = The Armor Rank to deal normal damage.
A weapon with 1 less than the armor rank deals half damage on a successful hit.

The reasoning behind this is, we wanted feasible and simple numbers for the Gundams. Not ridiculously high rolling d20's for damage and somewhere in the hundreds for health. But if we did so, normal Humans would have just about as much health as a mobile suit... To fix this, we have weapon ranks. Humans will be damaged severely by a single shot of a gundam... makes sense, without having to get too complex with numbers. Since most things will be on a chart...its much easier to look at. since only Rocket launchers or vehicle weapons will really be able to harm a mobile suit.

When I said the Equipment Durability, I didn't mean its HP. Its better if I give you an example of what I mean.

The Beam saber is a truly dangerous weapon, dealing significant damage and easily able to sever limbs, but it takes up a lot of energy. Eventually, like a flashlight or something, it'll just run out of power. So am i saying that once your sword runs out of juice, you're screwed? No. See Gundams (my friend showed me this.) are ran on a nuclear reactor that is constantly recharging itself. Ever wonder why a gundam never stops moving or being able to move rather, even if he's out of ammo and out of juice? This is the only explanation we can come up with.

So we've figured a point system, that can be modified from its original pool by picking up better energy cores. Each mobile suit has an energy pool of X. it regenerates at say... 2 points a round. (let X = 100 for this demonstration). Activating a beam saber may be 5 points, and each round takes up 3 points. it doesn't remove it from your energy pool directly, rather the item has a limit of the # of rounds it can stay active. You'll have to "plug it back in" to recharge = to the # of rounds used up.
if you have 10 rounds with the beam saber, and you only used 6. you have 4 left. You can charge it for 6 rounds back to full. Using up a certain # of energy points.

These of course are examples. I don't know if it'll be x points regen/ round or per day, per minute, or even per encounter. Please be gentle when criticizing the system, I don't know the full details about it, as my friend was taking charge of the Energy point project... I don't know the full details yet, and probably won't till Thursday when we work on it again (meeting with most of crew)

Hope that helps... we have good reasons for taking the steps we have and criticism and help is always appreciated.

2008-07-02, 10:51 AM
Oh, so it's just the implementation of an energy/durability/recharge system. I see. Clever, and fits the show flavor (recharge racks and the like). You'd have something similar for ammo-based weapons (machine guns, UC-style beam rifles, Gundam Heavyarms, etc.), I assume, except those can only be "recharged" by returning to base and refitting, and presumably therefore have a lot more charges. That sound right?

And the weapon ranking system looks like it could work...it'd be trickier to balance, but it would prevent ridiculous damage/HP inflation, which is its purpose. And it would prevent what people perceive as a "problem" with d20 Modern: firing a personal machine gun full-auto at an M1A1 Abrams will, eventually, destroy it, despite the fact that they're effectively immune to small arms fire in real life (the "death of a thousand cuts (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfAThousandCuts)" effect). Of course, M1A1's are significantly less invulnerable than a Gundanium-armored mobile suit, as far as I can tell.

Things are clearer now. I'm still going to use BESM (or D&D, can't forget to plug my play-by-post game here), but your system makes more sense to me.

2008-07-02, 05:17 PM

Yeah we figured that since people and gundams will have roughly = amounts of health...we had to do something. a whopping 1d8 from a pistol might do some considerable damage if we did nothing.

With the ammo for guns, We're considering a few things, one is just giving you an ammo number X, each turn you use up Y amounts of bullets. We're also considering giving items a few extra abilities...as in a spread-fire shot for Heavyarms' gatling gun. These techniques or abilities will increase the amount of ammo being used...etc.

Any ideas are still always appreciated.

Another thing on gundams, each mobile suit gets to choose an armor, armor gives 2 main things. DR & a rank. Gundanium armor is obviously the best. Good DR, prob rank 4 armor. so anything rank 4 and up (medium damage ms weapons -> Beam Cannon and such...)
Come on people, be creative, give us your thoughts!

2008-07-05, 10:22 PM
Got a lot done today.
Hp for heroes only advances every 5 levels.
HD: (half HD every 5 levels. Add full con)
Tough = d8+con (1st level). Every consecutive 5 levels afterward = 4 +
Strong/fast = d6+con (1st lvl) Every 5 gain 3 + con.
Smart, wis, char. = d4 + con. (1st) every 5 gain 2 + con

We figured Gundam hp start out 100. Armor increases hp and gives DR.
Normal MS armor (rank 3 armor) DR 5. 20 hp.

Gundam Armor (rank 4) DR 10. 20 hp

(so a gundam..with no other mods...gets 120 hp. not bad for a game with all dmg in d10s.) You can also spend Points (points are the money system...) to up hp. say 1 pt adds 20 hp or something. You can spend infinite amounts... but you only get so many points per mission. so its a big decision.

Set up so Oz soliders get 30 pts to customize MS. while Gundam pilots get 25 (5 spent on Gundam armor).

Using a Point buy system for Ability scores.. G pilots get higher points to use for higher stats...while OZ soldiers get lower scores.

Also fixed equipment.

Finished skills- many skills are combined like 4.0 (i.e spot/listen/search = senses skill.) We've reduced the number of skills by simplifying...but reduced the number of skill points you get per level. So you won't be able to max all skills. its pretty balanced.

Still working on: Feats, Advanced classes (took a few of your ideas and customized them to fit the game), Talent trees for Base classes, item ideas (for Gundams and/or for normal people). We;re still working on flight system for MS. as we dunno how we're gonna do the 3d flight system yet. (space flight = faster than earth flight??? HELP!)

Please give us a hand. its extremely appreciated