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LoopyZebra
2008-07-02, 05:43 PM
I hadn't seen this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndlist&brand=All&year=2009&tablesort=1) before, so I figured I'd mention it. They listed some of the early 2009 products. They look interesting. Player's Handbook 2 cover art is nice. Also, a few hints at the contents. "Arcane, Divine, and Primal Heroes". The cover also shows what I presume to be two new races (or, atleast, one with an elf at his side) and hints at a druid and barbarian (from the big guy with axe and the spirit critters). Definitely picking up the PHB 2, along with the Treasure Vault later this year.

SamTheCleric
2008-07-02, 05:44 PM
Almost looks like a goliath on the cover.

LoopyZebra
2008-07-02, 05:45 PM
Almost looks like a goliath on the cover.

Yeah, probably. I remember them being relatively popular.

SamTheCleric
2008-07-02, 06:11 PM
Also of note on that page... Arcane Power.. a nice follow up to Martial Power.

MammonAzrael
2008-07-02, 06:11 PM
Well, the Goliath was popular because Powerful Build was Awesome. But know both Bugbears and Minotaurs effectively have it, though it'd be nice to have a PHB race with it.

The other race looks like another Elf variant, though I hope I'm wrong. Maybe we'll see Aasimar in the book? I agree with the Barbarian guess, but I thought the Druid would be focusing on it's Shape-shifting powers in 4th? I'm guessing that the Barbarian is going to be the Primal Striker, the Druid the Primal Defender, and whatever is on the cover the Primal Controller (through summons...?)

I hope we get one of each roll for the Primal power, as well as an Arcane Leader and Defender, and a Divine Striker and Controller...that would be 8 classes right there.

And I would imagine that we'll see at least one Martial controller in the Martial Power book due out later this year.

Not much to say about the Arcane Power book.

Kurald Galain
2008-07-02, 06:17 PM
Not much to say about the Arcane Power book.

The bard could plausibly be in there. If not, I definitely expect it in the PHB since it says "arcane, divine" and primal. Ditto for the sorcerer and swordmage.

Obviously, the third and fourth book are going to be Divine Power and Primal Power. So, are those core, again?

Athaniar
2008-07-02, 06:21 PM
And don't forget Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead. Looks cool.

SamTheCleric
2008-07-02, 06:21 PM
Obviously, the third and fourth book are going to be Divine Power and Primal Power. So, are those core, again?

I'm not sure... are they still going with the "core" concept?

LoopyZebra
2008-07-02, 06:31 PM
The other race looks like another Elf variant, though I hope I'm wrong. Maybe we'll see Aasimar in the book?

I don't think it's an elf variant, since they said they only wanted three elves: Elves, Eladrin, and Drow. Perhaps something close to the elf, though, like a "Feyborn" (basically a fey version of aasimar or tiefling)? Given the primal focus, and the character's equipment, it would probably have some sort of tie to nature. Admittedly, that is pretty similar to an elf though.

Also, your mention of Powerful Build supports the Goliath theory: the "goliath"'s axe is definitely over-sized. (That is what Powerful Build did, right? I forgot.)

MammonAzrael
2008-07-02, 06:43 PM
Pretty much. It allowed creatures that had it to act as if they were one size larger for wielding weapons, bonuses to grappling, tripping, etc. It's pretty much mirrored in 4th's "Oversized" ability found on both the Bugbear and Minotaur.

SCPRedMage
2008-07-02, 06:51 PM
The bard could plausibly be in there. If not, I definitely expect it in the PHB since it says "arcane, divine" and primal. Ditto for the sorcerer and swordmage.

Obviously, the third and fourth book are going to be Divine Power and Primal Power. So, are those core, again?
If I recall correctly, WotC's stance for 4e is NOT to release new base classes in anything other than PHBs. That, and considering that Martial Power explicitly does NOT contain any new classes, so I'm pretty sure that Bard won't be in Arcane Power.

On the topic of Player's Handbook II, a podcast from GamerRadioZero was able to get a few spoilers about the new classes; specifically, the initials to the new classes are D, R, B, W, I, T, S, and S, and "only three or so are familiar, others are all new to D&D". Since "Primal" is one of the power sources, Barbarian is likely to be in it... so unless they renamed the one of the two classes, Bard may not be in PHB2, which is a prospect I do NOT like.

SamTheCleric
2008-07-02, 06:55 PM
He changed that "r" to a "B" in a post on ENWorld.

BBD = Bard, Barbarian, Druid.. I'm betting.

Isomenes
2008-07-02, 07:00 PM
The bard could plausibly be in there. If not, I definitely expect it in the PHB since it says "arcane, divine" and primal. Ditto for the sorcerer and swordmage.

Swordmage is definitely coming out in the FR Player's Guide coming out in August of this year, as indicated in the FRPG description (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/218587200). Despite disliking FR as a setting, I'm probably going to get it for the bag of goodies it represents, and then wait, wait, wait.

LoopyZebra
2008-07-02, 07:07 PM
Is the Swordmage going to be printed anywhere besides the FRPG? The class sounds cool, but the rest of the book doesn't really interest me.

SCPRedMage
2008-07-02, 07:58 PM
He changed that "r" to a "B" in a post on ENWorld.

BBD = Bard, Barbarian, Druid.. I'm betting.
I certainly hope you're right... I'd like to see all three of those classes make the hop over the 4e ASAP...

RTGoodman
2008-07-02, 08:22 PM
Holy crap, I hope it's a Goliath. I mean, what other race has a game called "Goatball"? :smalltongue: And besides that, I just really like the race, Powerful Build or not.

There are actually a lot of things there I'd like to have (or at least skim through). I know I'll be getting the PHBs, but I'll have to see what the "X Power" books have before I buy them. I assume they'll probably just be Powers, Paragon Paths, Epic Destinies, Feats, and such, but I'd like to know first.

Also, I believe could be an Eye of Fear and Flame on the cover of Open Grave - I mean, it's got one creepy eye and one fiery eye, so it would make sense. Unless it's Lich with a bad case of pink eye or something... EDIT: @\/ Yeah, it probably is Vecna. Forgot about that guy. :smallwink:

Dungeon Delve sort of sounds like it could be the 4E Dungeonscape (and/or maybe the start of a 4E Environment series).

Also, there are a few new names on there (specifically, on Arcane Power and Open Grave) - anyone know them or their work?

Rizban
2008-07-02, 08:31 PM
Well, maybe that thing about "Players can do a ritual that can make them a Lich" but "Lich is a template and PCs can't have a template" will be rectified in the Open Grave book. Though, I must admit, on first glance at the authors, I read "Bruce Cordell" as "Bruce (My name's not Ash!) Campbell".

That definitely looks like Vecna on the cover though.

LoopyZebra
2008-07-02, 08:34 PM
Well, Bill Slaviseck runs 4E R&D, I think. Atleast, he writes the Ampersand articles. David Noonan and Mike Mearls were core designers of 4E, I believe. Bruce Cordell worked on KotS. Rob Heinsoo worked on the PHB. Rob and Bruce also particpated in early 4E stuff, IIRC. The other names I don't recognize. They might be new, or might have been "lesser" designers on 4E.

Kurald Galain
2008-07-03, 04:31 AM
On the topic of Player's Handbook II, a podcast from GamerRadioZero was able to get a few spoilers about the new classes; specifically, the initials to the new classes are D, R, B, W, I, T, S, and S, and "only three or so are familiar, others are all new to D&D".

D, B and S are druid, barbarian, and sorcerer, most likely. Given the "barely in control of their powers" shtick sorcerers have been given, they sound pretty primal to me.

It's possible that bards simply count as warlords now. It is also possible that they're considered part of some other power source.


(edit) I still wonder if WOTC is going to be able to make a meaningful difference between Ki and Psionic, or between Elemental and Primal, and so forth. I mean, it's not as if power sources really matter at the moment - it matters that classes are different, but if the PHB had said that "rogues are ki-focused" or "warlocks are elemental-powered", they would still play exactly the same.