Couple of questions about the blood oath

[King of Nowhere]

I was wondering about the blood oath of vengeance and how it can keep you outside the afterlife. What if

1) Your evil father swear a blood oath against a good person that twarted his evil plans; you're good aligned but tecnically bound to the oath to kill a good person. The deva would consider the oath invalid and let you in, or punish you for not trying to fulfill the oath?
And, if yor good father swear an oath against an evil mastermind, but you, evil aligned, choose to ally with him to conquer the world, you're going to evil afterlife for your evil act or you were still supposed to fulfill the oath?

2) Your father swear vengeance against an epic level (it's Roy case). You are low level, so you decide you need to get some XP before trying, so you went on some adventures not related to the villain (Roy did it in otoopc). You die during one of these missions.
The deva would keep you out of the afterlife - because you weren't trying to fulfill the oath - or will accept you - because you had all the better intentons to go after him when you were high level enough to stand a chance, so you were, on some level, trying to fulfill?

Some ideas?

[hamishspence]

ironically, by strict wording, roy shouldn't be bound at all, it basically says "I will not rest until I or my heirs kill Xykon"
NOT "neither I nor my heirs will rest"

that said, depends if you are apply the letter or the spirit of the oath, and how strict it is.

[Ninja]

I was wondering about the blood oath of vengeance and how it can keep you outside the afterlife. What if

1) Your evil father swear a blood oath against a good person that twarted his evil plans; you're good aligned but tecnically bound to the oath to kill a good person. The deva would consider the oath invalid and let you in, or punish you for not trying to fulfill the oath?
And, if yor good father swear an oath against an evil mastermind, but you, evil aligned, choose to ally with him to conquer the world, you're going to evil afterlife for your evil act or you were still supposed to fulfill the oath?

Well, i think they would let you in w/e afterlife you should go if you were the same aligment as the object of the oath.... but i am not sure.... it would be stupid if your father was evil and they don;t let you in the good afterlife because you didn;t fullfil his oath towards a good person....


2) Your father swear vengeance against an epic level (it's Roy case). You are low level, so you decide you need to get some XP before trying, so you went on some adventures not related to the villain (Roy did it in otoopc). You die during one of these missions.
The deva would keep you out of the afterlife - because you weren't trying to fulfill the oath - or will accept you - because you had all the better intentons to go after him when you were high level enough to stand a chance, so you were, on some level, trying to fulfill?

interesting.... well i guess you would probably get rezzed anyway but i think they would let you.... as the deva said when she let Roy in he was doing what he thought was best and therefore let him in... i think the same might be said for this situation.......

[Kato]

Hm... I think it wouldn't matter in both cases... You're dad can't damn your soul to accomplish something he couldn't, unless you accept it and make the same oath... And you wouldn't if it was against your alignment, would you?

If you took the oath and died trying to do it... it's probably up to the devam a good one'd accept you, an evil refuse ^^*

[King of Nowhere]

Actually, from otoopc and sod it seems that oaths pass to the son regardless of his will. Eugene said "Julia and her brother are inheriting a blood oath of vengeance", implying that they can't refuse it. Of course Eugene didn't know everything about blood oath, so he may be wrong. Roy accepted the oath anyway, so your interpretation could be correct.

And for the "die trying to fulfill the oath" thing, it's not clear how much loosely the term "trying" can be used. Surely direct fighting against your enemy or his minions is ok, but fighting random encounters to get XP? Finding component to make an uber powerful weapon that you could eventually use agains him? Giving your son the best training you can, figuring you're too old to fight (no, I'm not referring to Eugene, since his case was different; just an hypotetical situation)?



Well, i think they would let you in w/e afterlife you should go if you were the same aligment as the object of the oath

That's too specific, a better wordding may be "the oath is invalidated if accomplish it would require an action against your alignment", for example killing an innocent if you're good, or renunce to an opportunity to conquer the world if you're evil. But that's common sense, the rules often don't follow it.

[chibibar]

technically. The blood oath is a ritual that you made a promise (with your after life) that will accomplish a task. The descendant are not barred from entering the afterlife BUT the eldest (in this case Roy) will be the one need to fullfilled it or at least it is pass on to him to fullfilled it.

Eugene was hoping Julia would take it since Eugene thinks that Roy can't do it and Eugene will be stuck in the waiting room UNTIL Roy dies and Julia takes over. Either children are not bound to complete the task (they will not be barred from the afterlife) but Eugene will continue to be barred even if both children died and did not get a resurrection.

The only person who is bound not to enter the afterlife if a task is not done is Eugene due to the wording he choose.

Now outside context.
Remember the movie Van Helsing? The family (can't remember the name) swore that NONE of the descendant shall rest until Dracula is destroyed. remember that? If the last two descendant died, then the whole family is damned for all eternity (which sucks for them)

[zippthorne]

What is the point of "blood magic"? Does making the oath grant eugene or his descendants some special ability or faster learning or something? I mean why bother with it if all it does is give you a headache later?

[tyckspoon]

What is the point of "blood magic"? Does making the oath grant eugene or his descendants some special ability or faster learning or something? I mean why bother with it if all it does is give you a headache later?

Answers: Part A- not that we've seen. The only special power it appears to grant is having your ghost be visible to whoever you have to pass the quest on to, although that may just be part of the family's relationship to the Greenhilt sword instead.

Part B: Modest Start of Darkness spoiler:
Eugene was very very drunk at the time.

[MightyIgoo]

I think the point is that Eugene really, really cared about the thing he was swearing to. It wasn't a play for better stats or new abilities, it was pure RP-- He really hated Xykon's guts and believed that Xykon should not be allowed to exist.

[Selene]

Has anyone actually mentioned the oath to Julia? If Roy doesn't get raised, and they don't bring the sword to Julia, is Eugene just SOL?

[chibibar]

Has anyone actually mentioned the oath to Julia? If Roy doesn't get raised, and they don't bring the sword to Julia, is Eugene just SOL?

Heh. Well, Since Roy is a fighter, maybe the only way to communicate with him is via the magical sword. Julia is a spellcaster, so she might be able to see her father with the magical sword (theory of course)

[hamishspence]

it suggested Eugene wanted to contact her at some point, but the school is warded.

[AceOfFools]

I believe, based on what I've read...

That the cosmic forces of goodness would be willing to show leiniency in "the doing my best to succeed in the only way practical." Mercy is a good virtue.

Similarly, cosmic goodness isn't going to lay the smack down on anyone trying to do it a service, and so would not punish you for ignoring an evil oath. Cosmic evil, likely not so much, and may have something to say about the good aligned child, given the opportunity.

Interesting question though.