PDA

View Full Version : [4e] Disgaea Campaign Setting!



Tengu
2008-07-04, 07:05 AM
I've had this idea in my mind for quite a time now - it will be easy to convert the world of Disgaea games into the rules of fourth edition DND, and, more importantly, it's a game system that will do justice for them. I currently have very little written so far, which is why I'm posting stuff here and not in Homebrew.

So, this is what I want to implement:

Races
There will be three player races at the start. Demons will be the default race and their stats will roughly match these of humans (modified and maybe strenghtened since humans will still have their racial feats). Humans will be the rough equivalent of half-elves, because that's what humans are in Disgaea - tough and spirited. Angels will have a bonus to two out of three from Dex, Wis and Cha, and probably start proficient with bows, but I don't know what else to give them yet.

Classes
Implementing most Disgaea classes will be fairly easy:
Fighter - Fighter (duh)
Brawler - Two-Weapon Ranger
Healer - modified Cleric (no deity-specific Channel Divinity, can use staves as an implement for casting)
Mage - Wizard, with the option of specialising in an element - all your spells deal damage from this element, and maybe you get the Heroic-level damage frat for this element for free
Thief - Rogue, modified to have the ability to steal stuff (and stats, temporarily) in combat instead of sneak attack
Archer - modified Archery Ranger (because Archery is a suboptimal choice for a ranger, and I don't want that)
Gunner - ditto, but different from the Archer
Magic Knight - modified Swordmage (which means this class won't be released in some time)
Samurai - I'm not sure. Paladin? Fighter with the Kensei paragon path?
Ninja - Rogue with improved combat (more weapon proficiencies, can use rogue powers will all weapons) at the cost of skills
Scout/Geomancer - probably a paragon path, available for all classes - discounting geopanel abilities Scout is a Gunner and Geomancer either a multiclassed Mage or a Healer who actually uses damage-dealing abilities
Beastmaster - I have no idea, but would like to see them implemented
Iron Knight - a paragon path for Fighter?
Majin, EDF Soldier, Angel - I probably won't implement these as classes, seeing that they simply represent strong warriors of their respectable races

Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies
Apart from the paragon paths I mentioned earlier... I am not sure what else to add. Prism Ranger, maybe?

From epic destinies, we will have at least two: Overlord and Defender of Earth!

Feats
All races will have their own racial feats, of course - humans will have the feats from 4e, but it will take more work for the other races. I'm pondering a high-tier feat that lets you fly for these two, as well as, for all races this time, a feat that lets you use Cha instead of Wis for abilities and powers (in the world of Disgaea, common sense is not so common), although I'm not sure would that be balanced.

Powers
Here I'd like to modify as little as possible. Powers will be mostly refluffed to represent canon Disgaea techniques - but if there's none that are good to represent this or that tech, making new powers in 4e is easy enough to add them. There will also be powers that let you add an individual touch to your character.

Items
I will add at least two new weapons - martial Gauntlet and superior Gun (probably in a one-handed Light and two-handed Heavy variations). Armor will be refluffed in some way, because when have you seen a heavily-armored Disgaea character last time? Healing potions will also be refluffed into candy. I'm pondering introducing drinks that restore your use of encounter (and daily, at high levels) powers.

Monsters
All the Disgaea monsters must be introduced, starting of course with Prinnies! Since both Disgaea and 4e use something resembling a tier system for their creatures, this part might seem like a lot of work but will actually be pretty easy. Over time, some monsters might become player races (Prinny? Catgirl?).

New Rules
Here, I want to capture as many elements that make Disgaea innovative, but at the same time limit the cheese potential - because it might be intentional in a computer game, but doesn't work well for a cooperative RPG:
Group attacks - if you attack an adjacent opponent with a basic attack, allies adjacent to you can (after passing a roll) attack him too
Combo attacks - further attacks on one opponent without anyone making any other actions in between increase in accuracy
Geo Panels - this requires no explanation if you've played Disgaea
Lifting and Throwing - I'm not sure what should the throwing distance depend upon. Character class? Throwing an enemy into another enemy will not increase their level, unlike in the computer games. I'm pondering should 3-d attacks be possible
Item World - enter an item, fight monsters inside, increase its strength and make it possible to transfer its special abilities into another item! These rules will require very careful planning, or else they might result in super-overpowered gear
Reincarnation - it will not make you more and more powerful each time you reincarnate, but it lets you completely rebuild your character from scratch (you start at level 1, but since your allies are higher level, you will catch up over time fairly quickly). I'm pondering should there be a minimal level at which is this possible
Master/Pupil, Dark Assembly, Felonies, Special Bar - I'm pondering should I implement any of those, and how. Suggestions?

So, what do you think? Anything you would like to see, anything that I have forgotten? Before I start the project for real I'd like to see how much interest is there in it. All input is appreciated!

Oslecamo
2008-07-04, 07:25 AM
Eeerrr, shouldn't this be in the homebrew forum?

EDIT:Ok, now for the review.

1-Disgaea is pretty far from a balanced game. Fun? Very. Balanced? Not so much. You'll have to tone dow or up a lot of things from the game to put them into 4e.

2-Characters wear heavy armor, it's just that heavy armor doesn't show up.

3-Stealing stuff in combat=bad. Either is useless(cheap loot or could have just picked from the dead corpse) or the game degenerates into the rest of the party keeping the oponents alive so the thief can strip them of all that juicy wargear. Too much work to make it work properly. Same for item world. it's basically grinding random ecounters

4-Guns should have bigger range than other weapons. Specially because bow range is already quite short.

5-Thrown range should be based on class. Sturdier classes can throw further. Just remove the ability to throw monsters in ocupied squares, otherwise it becomes a save or die.

6-If you limit mages to 1 element, give them some boost to the damage. Something like half their level.

7-Combo attacks definetely worth the effort. Altough the balance needs to be carefully done. Extra attacks can scale pretty quickly.

8-Dark assembly looks fun. Players sacrifice exp and money to make changes to the entire world or temporary boosts. Can fight instead of paying gold and exp.

9-Reincarnation is tricky. Specially because lower lv players don't get extra exp. And even with the extra HP they're still squishy. Maybe just sacrifice a level to rebuild your character?

10-Moar prism rangers. Funniest part of all the game.

DMfromTheAbyss
2008-07-04, 09:42 AM
Sounds like a good idea, but you are definately going to have to watch the power level and game balance issues. For some of the classes/races I'd suggest taking a step back from 4rth edition and just using it as a guideline... alot of the classes would be better balanced as intended if you just went whole hog and translated the game character classes instead of taking 4rth ed classes and re-fluffing them.

of items... though only allowing 4 equipables seems like a good idea... keeps things simple and prevents some power creep.

On powers I'd go with the disgaea powers reinterpreted to 4rth instead of the standard 4rth ed powers. Especially as the brawler would have some very neat skills that 4rth ed ranger would not make sense for...Basically you'd have a choice from racial, weapon and "class" powers. Maybe all demons could get stuff "like what Etna and Laharl got, Angels could get Flonne like divine rays of doom etc and humans would get stuff akin to Gordon and Jennifer's special abilities. Depending on what weapon(s) you use you get certain powers at certain levels and then each class would get powers that made sense from them. (ninjas getting movement and stealth ones perhaps)

Anyway you've given me the bug to see what some disgaea powers wqould look like in 4rth ed. hmmm winged slayer...?

Encounter power (level 15? Fighter)
Winged Slayer (prerequisites weapon=Sword, have space behind you 15 feet back unoccupied)
Standard Action
Make an attack STR vs AC on each opponent in a close burst 3.
Damage 3(W) +Strength


Dailey Power (level 20? Demon?)
Overlords Wrath
Standard action
Range 5 squares AOE 1 square burst
Make an attack Int vs Fort vs each opponent
Damage 10d10 + int & Wis modifiers
Miss: half

Just make a few more (alot) of these from the game and your all set...

Behold_the_Void
2008-07-04, 02:39 PM
Overlord should be an Epic Destiny. Paragon Path should be Majin (Demon Lord). Don't forget the Prism Ranger! I have my old homebrew of some of the stuff knocking around somewhere here, I can't remember if you followed it back when I did it but I might be able to kick in some inspiration (I've been considering doing a 4e conversion of it myself and actually making a proper go of it but everyone wants me to do my Bleach system instead).

Also, even though they're monster-class in the game, I HIGHLY advise a Prinny race. They're extremely entertaining.

Learnedguy
2008-07-04, 03:28 PM
1-Disgaea is pretty far from a balanced game. Fun? Very. Balanced? Not so much. You'll have to tone dow or up a lot of things from the game to put them into 4e.


Why:smalltongue:?

Sometimes it's worth to sacrifice some balance:smallyuk:

Tengu
2008-07-04, 03:31 PM
Actually, balance will be the issue only in case of group attacks and item world.\

And to answer some points:



2-Characters wear heavy armor, it's just that heavy armor doesn't show up.


Well yeah, they even can wear several suits of armor at once, but I have trouble imagining, for example, Laharl in a plate mail. For me, characters in Disgaea look the way they are represented in combat.



3-Stealing stuff in combat=bad. Either is useless(cheap loot or could have just picked from the dead corpse) or the game degenerates into the rest of the party keeping the oponents alive so the thief can strip them of all that juicy wargear. Too much work to make it work properly. Same for item world. it's basically grinding random ecounters


Good point. Stealing stats will probably be the main focus of thieves, not items.



6-If you limit mages to 1 element, give them some boost to the damage. Something like half their level.


They don't have to limit themselves, they can choose to be Prism Mages and have the default elements for their spells. Half a level is too much, I think - especially since I forgot to mention one rule!

Elemental Affinity
At the start of the game, you can choose to be resistant to one element and vulnerable to another one. The resistance increases with levels. If you are a specialized mage, you must be resistant to your element and vulnerable to the opposite one. As a minor action and an appropriate skill check, you can identify what are the enemies in some range vulnerable and resistant to.



8-Dark assembly looks fun. Players sacrifice exp and money to make changes to the entire world or temporary boosts. Can fight instead of paying gold and exp.

9-Reincarnation is tricky. Specially because lower lv players don't get extra exp. And even with the extra HP they're still squishy. Maybe just sacrifice a level to rebuild your character?


I don't like the idea of party being on uneven levels. In the DM's Handbook, it says that characters who have less experience than the others should get extra exp from the DM to catch up over the course of one or several sessions, and that's what I want to do with reincarnating - you're useless for one or two combats, but then you start contributing once again.

Oslecamo
2008-07-04, 03:35 PM
Why:smalltongue:?

Sometimes it's worth to sacrifice some balance:smallyuk:

Rant
Head spinning...In one side people complaining they're willing to sell their souls for balance, on the other people saying that balance isn't that important...Oh god why?
End rant

But anyway, it's a good question.

How much are you willing to push balance Tengu?

4e is anti combo. Barely anything stacks. Disgaea, on the other hand, is very combo happy, combining attacks and stacking bonus from a hundred places at the same time.

So how wild you want this?

EDIT:Don't forget stealing Tengu. There's no such thing as combat stealing in 4e, nor anything about gaining more gold/items than usual.

Behold_the_Void
2008-07-04, 03:49 PM
There's no reason to unbalance it to make it work, just craft the powers to be interesting and over-the-top but balanced against each other. So long as the characters FEEL awesome, it's not a problem.

Tengu
2008-07-04, 03:55 PM
[I]
4e is anti combo. Barely anything stacks. Disgaea, on the other hand, is very combo happy, combining attacks and stacking bonus from a hundred places at the same time.


I want to introduce group attacks, combo attacks and maybe 3d attacks, but that's all. I do not want to have bonuses from items or powers stacking to absurd levels, as they are not really that necessary to make the game feel like Disgaea.

So, basically, what Behold the Void said. I edited my previous post with some more info, if anyone missed it.