Coming out

[unosarta]

okay, i thought about this for a while, so here it goes:

i am a gay teen.

i have not told my friends, or family.

i have not come out yet.

and i need some help on that. you see, one of my friends goes to a catholic school and [not to dis any catholics, but...] i dont think that he will be "understanding" if you get my drift. i really, dont want to keep it a secret anymore, and i need some advice on how to tell him, my friends and my family. you dont have to be gay, but i need some advice on how to tell my friend something this important.

please if you have any advice, give it to me.

thanks.

[Raistlin1040]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62225

Right there mate. A whole thread dedicated to this kind of stuff.

Sorry that this is the whole post, but I unfortunatly can't offer any advice.

[Collin152]

First advice:
Avoid telling someone you think will take it badly until you are already comfortable telling people.
If you know people you don't think will take it badly, talk to them first.

Also: Welcome to the flock. The Empire of Color welcomes you.

[AmberVael]

I definitely agree with Collin.
I'd take it one step at a time- know who will respond well, and get them behind you and willing to support you before you have to tell people who might not react as pleasantly. You're going to want a group of people backing you up and willing to accept and help you if you get down about who hasn't accepted you.
It will give you more confidence, as well as people to rely and count on.

[Collin152]

Second advice:
If it all blows up in your face, don't blow up back at it. Just do like me, and wait patiently to vanish to California as soon as it is sane and legal to do so.

Also, seek refuge with me. I'll get lonely.

[unosarta]

Second advice:
If it all blows up in your face, don't blow up back at it. Just do like me, and wait patiently to vanish to California as soon as it is sane and legal to do so.

Also, seek refuge with me. I'll get lonely.

thanks for the advice [especially since one of my friends is moving to california]!

[Collin152]

thanks for the advice [especially since one of my friends is moving to california]!

Awesome!
I'm still looking to see if I can't convince someone to leave with me. I won't survive long on my own.
But yay for you!

[thubby]

whats happened that you need to tell anyone??? or rather, i don't go around saying I'm straight. why do you have to go around telling people you're gay?

as to actual advice. if you're not familiar with the popular myths, get familiar and dig up the facts about them. research, the greatest weapon against stupidity.
if your friend isn't "understanding", just remind him we are all flawed.

and for bringing up the subject? parents are easy enough, "mom, i need to tell you something *go to appropriate place for conversation* I'm gay"
with friends, your best guess is as good as mine.

[Collin152]

whats happened that you need to tell anyone??? or rather, i don't go around saying I'm straight. why do you have to go around telling people you're gay?

as to actual advice. if you're not familiar with the popular myths, get familiar and dig up the facts about them. research, the greatest weapon against stupidity.
if your friend isn't "understanding", just remind him we are all flawed.

and for bringing up the subject? parents are easy enough, "mom, i need to tell you something *go to appropriate place for conversation* I'm gay"
with friends, your best guess is as good as mine.

Baaaaad advice. let me explain how.
First: Suppose everybody assumed you were gay. How the hell do you intend to get a woman? Among other things you probably wouldn't enjoy.

Flaw? You consider it a flaw? I happen to consider myself Homo Superior here, and don't take kindly to beign called flawed on this particular regard.

Also, parents are the total opposite of easy for a teenager, given their totalitarian rule over your life.

[thubby]

Baaaaad advice. let me explain how.
First: Suppose everybody assumed you were gay. How the hell do you intend to get a woman? Among other things you probably wouldn't enjoy.

Flaw? You consider it a flaw? I happen to consider myself Homo Superior here, and don't take kindly to beign called flawed on this particular regard.

Also, parents are the total opposite of easy for a teenager, given their totalitarian rule over your life.

i wasn't thinking of getting a date, but if thats the intent, point taken.

I don't, his friend may, but even if he does, by his own belief system it's a moot point.

easy in the sense of you are dealing with a (hopefully) more mature person. there is very little in the way of a need to finesse it. even if you can, you think they don't know what you're actually saying?

[Collin152]

easy in the sense of you are dealing with a (hopefully) more mature person. there is very little in the way of a need to finesse it. even if you can, you think they don't know what you're actually saying?

Easy to say? Of course. There is almost no situation in which it is impossible to say it. Why, it's usually even possible to do it withotu causign an akward situation.
But parents of teenagers are often touchy people, especially on this subject. I admit, my views are biased, but parents are dangerous thigns. Cause if a friend takes it badly, screw them, get a new friend. Hard to do that if a parent takes it badly.

[thubby]

Easy to say? Of course. There is almost no situation in which it is impossible to say it. Why, it's usually even possible to do it withotu causign an akward situation.
But parents of teenagers are often touchy people, especially on this subject. I admit, my views are biased, but parents are dangerous thigns. Cause if a friend takes it badly, screw them, get a new friend. Hard to do that if a parent takes it badly.

i'm probably going to sound very cliche', but at the end of the day your parents love you. they won't stop loving you or caring about you. even IF they get angry (which i seriously doubt they will), they'll still pay your tuition, drive you home when you get drunk at a party, and help you with your homework. (ok, their are some messed up parents, but by and large)

[Collin152]

i'm probably going to sound very cliche', but at the end of the day your parents love you. they won't stop loving you or caring about you. even IF they get angry (which i seriously doubt they will), they'll still pay your tuition, drive you home when you get drunk at a party, and help you with your homework. (ok, their are some messed up parents, but by and large)

Ever hear of tough love?

[thubby]

Ever hear of tough love?

you have a way to avoid getting it with pretty words? (this is, of course, assuming they go that route)

[Collin152]

you have a way to avoid getting it with pretty words? (this is, of course, assuming they go that route)

Trust me when I say, in some cases, there is no happy ending that route.

But, back to the OP, if you have reason to believe your parents are open minded enough, tell them when you're ready.

It's just that mine won't even accept evolution. If they were born a few years earlier, they might not even accept DNA as fact...

[valadil]

If you're worried about your parents, tell a friend first. Pick one who will be supportive of you. While I haven't participated, I have heard of people gathering up a whole group of friends to help out when they tell their parents. You can always talk to a guidance counselor too.

It may suck to come out. You'll probably find out who your real friends are. But you shouldn't have to hold this in any longer.

[thubby]

If you're worried about your parents, tell a friend first. Pick one who will be supportive of you. While I haven't participated, I have heard of people gathering up a whole group of friends to help out when they tell their parents. You can always talk to a guidance counselor too.

It may suck to come out. You'll probably find out who your real friends are. But you shouldn't have to hold this in any longer.

I'm not sure that's the best idea (rounding up the possy i mean). the only thing that really changes by adding more people is mob mentality, it may well intimidate an otherwise uncooperative parent into compliance, or make the person in question feel safe, but it's not really conducive to addressing the issues.

[Collin152]

Strength in numbers.
The group is a good idea, particularly if said parents are at all prone to violence, anger, or lycanthropy.
Thubby, meaning no offense... but your advice makes me like you less as a person, and makes me worry for the poor boy who really needs as much support as he can get.
The thing about being gay is that you learn that risks=bad.
So you learn how to reduce risk.
If only to survive.

[Agamid]

unosarta, do you have any friends who are gay or who have family members/friends who are gay? Talking to people on an internet forum is all very well, but having someone actually physically there for you who has been through the same or similar things as you can be such a wonderful thing.

Are you at shcool?uni?college? if any of these there should be a councilor you can talk to, and i can almost guarantee you that even if you live in the most backwards and redneck place in the world, they will have had someone with similar issues to you come to them in the past.
If you're at uni or college i also guarantee you that there will be a Queer/LGBT guild or support group somewhere on campus.

Personally, i'd suggest coming out to a very close friend first, someone that you completely trust. See how that goes. it may be that they'll need time to 'digest' this, but if they're really your friend, then they'll stick by you.

Parents can be easy and they can be hard.... i've never had to come out to my parents, i've just been myself and they've been smart enough to see, but even if i had done the 'mum, dad, i think i'm queer.' talk, they're so easy and laid back and open minded that there wouldn't have been any dramas.
But that's my parents, some people i've met are in their 30s and have never come out to them, or did and were then thrown out of their parent's house.
I don't know your parents, so i can't say how they would react, but if you're unsure, perhaps you should try bringing up the topic or homosexuality with them in conversation, just to get a an idea of their views and perhaps an idea of how they might react.
If they react badly to the topic, and I hate to say it, but sometimes it's better to keep secrets from your parents and have a decent relationship with them, rather than be brutally honest with them but have them excommunicate you.

Whenever i have to tell my mum something really important a leave her a note and make sure i'm asleep or out when she gets it and reads it. thus, she can't have a knee-jerk reaction to it and has time to think about it.
It's less personal, but something like this might avoid a shouting match.


That's really all the advise i can give... good luck, and don't ever let anyone tell you that something's wrong with you just because of your sexual orientation, or that you'll get over it/grow out of it.

[An Enemy Spy]

Do gay people insult each other by calling each other straight? Just a thought

[Jae]

If it all blows up in your face, don't blow up back at it. Just do like me, and wait patiently to vanish to California as soon as it is sane and legal to do so.

mm i live in california and as well known as it is for being liberal, I live in a very conservative little town. I know my fair share of homophobes...

case in point? LOOK INTO the place in california you move to :smallyuk:

[onasuma]

and i need some help on that. you see, one of my friends goes to a catholic school and [not to dis any catholics, but...] i dont think that he will be "understanding" if you get my drift.

Not that i know your friend, but id generally think if hes any friend he wouldnt mind. We have a couple of gays around our school, some of them catholic, some still friends with catholics. And yes, you may say the religion goes against it, but really, isnt it all open to interpretation anyway? *stops before he goes futher into religion*

[DoranLiadon]

just tellem, thers nothing to b ashamed of, gays shud hav normal rights and they ar gaining rights, states are legalizing marriage, just tell them

[captain_decadence]

To the person who said that there is no need to come out because he doesn't
"come out" as straight: Almost every moment of a closeted teens life is a struggle because they are keeping a secret from everyone around them. They have to watch pronouns, make up stories, avoid discussions about dating, and think about hundreds of different things at once. It's freaking hard. You may not come out as straight but every time you talk about someone you like, every time you look at someone you find attractive and every time you dance with the opposite gender at a dance, you are confirming the belief of assumed heterosexuality that all people labour under. We are assumed straight until proven otherwise. Don't tell people that they don't have to come out and that they shouldn't be pushy because "I never came out about being straight". Yes, you did but everyone was expecting it.

To the OP: This is gonna suck. I'm not gonna lie to you at all. It's gonna suck a lot. But it's all gonna be worth it after you stop living the lie. That moment you realize your gut doesn't drop and twist when you say "I'm gay" as it did the first 10, 15 or 100 times. Here's some things to consider:

1. Do you have a close friend that you can tell who you know will be accepting? This can also include family members but if you know someone with gay friends, who is gay or who always just seemed cool with this kind of thing, you should probably tell them first. It's gonna suck but these people will usually be the most supportive.

2. Really think about telling your parents but if it seems like a bad idea, you don't have to do it. Parents have iron-fisted control of their kids lives so if it looks like your parents will make your life miserable, kick you out or anything else bad, don't tell them. On the other hand, if there seems like a decent chance they'll be okay, tell them. They do love you and it's really great to have your parents behind you.

3. Before you tell anyone, make sure that you are alone with them (or alone with the group, whatever) and not in a public place. Be ready to answer questions, talk about it or just sit there if they need a bit of time. Reactions will vary greatly and you have to remember that your family or friends vision of who you are has just been fundamentally altered, it might be confusing for them just as it was for you.

If you need to talk more, you can IM me or Private Message me. I've been through this and helped friends through it.

Good luck *hug*

[Player_Zero]

Never understood this 'coming out' dealie... I mean, there isn't anyone I know who would actually care if I was gay, see. Perhaps it's different for other people, but I think that some of it at least is all in your head.

But then again, I'm a crazy weirdo with no shame. Good times.

[Lord Herman]

My cousin came out a few years ago. He went through some tough times, but his friends and family have accepted him for who he is, and he's now happily married. I hope you'll find the same happiness. So good luck, and be brave!

[thubby]

To the person who said that there is no need to come out because he doesn't
"come out" as straight: Almost every moment of a closeted teens life is a struggle because they are keeping a secret from everyone around them. They have to watch pronouns, make up stories, avoid discussions about dating, and think about hundreds of different things at once. It's freaking hard. You may not come out as straight but every time you talk about someone you like, every time you look at someone you find attractive and every time you dance with the opposite gender at a dance, you are confirming the belief of assumed heterosexuality that all people labour under. We are assumed straight until proven otherwise. Don't tell people that they don't have to come out and that they shouldn't be pushy because "I never came out about being straight". Yes, you did but everyone was expecting it.


watch pronouns? :smallconfused:
i'm not saying he should lie, I'm saying he should be who he is, and let people think what they will. honestly starting to lie about that was a bad idea to begin with.

[xPANCAKEx]

Do gay people insult each other by calling each other straight? Just a thought

The term "breeder" springs to mind. Hetrophobic abuse is immensly amusing.

i'd also back the call of telling supportive friends first (friends are the family you choose), then your parents.

It might be worth thinking about how you're going to tell people. The less of a big deal/more casual you are about how you announce it, the less people will be inclined to react as if you've suddenly grown a second head (as some, and lets be honest about this here, backwards members of society do to such news). As long as you inform them in a way that shows that you're accepting who you are as opposed to CHANGING who you are, then they will have less to worry about. They like you for who you are already, and they can/should continue to do so

as for your friend - it depends what kind of person he is. Is he the type to force his religious views upon people, or is he accepting of other cultures/lifestyles?

[xPANCAKEx]

watch pronouns? :smallconfused:
i'm not saying he should lie, I'm saying he should be who he is, and let people think what they will. honestly starting to lie about that was a bad idea to begin with.

as in watching out to make sure they are careful about which gender they talk about when discussing romance and the like

but i see what thubby is getting at - not lie, just don't go around telling people unneccissarily. Not sure i'd agree with the advice though... all comes down to how private a person you are

[Collin152]

mm i live in california and as well known as it is for being liberal, I live in a very conservative little town. I know my fair share of homophobes...

case in point? LOOK INTO the place in california you move to :smallyuk:

Actually, my idea or California was before a special little law got passed.
I just like the weather and it's a state away from peopl who I'd rather not be around.

But yes, look into it. Where would you advise?

Also: Homophobes will be everywhere. It is unavoidable.

[Midnight Son]

Also: Homophobes will be everywhere. It is unavoidable.
They're like zombies in that. Just understand that they're lacking brains and you'll do well.:smallyuk:

[Collin152]

They're like zombies in that. Just understand that they're lacking brains and you'll do well.:smallyuk:

But unlike zombies, if they bite you, you stay exactly like you were beforehand.
Unfortunatley, biting them seems to have no effect either.
So I guess we aren't vampires.

[Midnight Son]

But unlike zombies, if they bite you, you stay exactly like you were beforehand.
Unfortunatley, biting them seems to have no effect either.
So I guess we aren't vampires.[tongue in cheek] Wait! You're telling me that you can't catch a case of gayness! Why did all those people warn me to stay away from them then? [/tongue in cheek]

[xPANCAKEx]

But unlike zombies, if they bite you, you stay exactly like you were beforehand.

unless they have rabies

unless being gay makes you immune to rabies now?

[Collin152]

[tongue in cheek] Wait! You're telling me that you can't catch a case of gayness! Why did all those people warn me to stay away from them then? [/tongue in cheek]

Man, I wish that were true, actually.
It'd make life a hell of a lot easier.
For me, anyways.
The human race might not survive, though.
Hmm...
Maybe I"m not trying hard enough.



unless they have rabies

unless being gay makes you immune to rabies now?

Among other things.
As long as you don't go near any Kryptonite. Or anything with Trans-fat.

[Neithan]

They're like zombies in that. Just understand that they're lacking brains and you'll do well.:smallyuk:

Hm, so we shout go out and decapitate them?

[Collin152]

Hm, so we shout go out and decapitate them?

No need.
I've already got Operation Herring underway.

If you're heterosxual... better fill out this paperwork before we begin phase A.

[xPANCAKEx]

i suspect this "paper work" is some sort of trap

being trap?.. by gays?!?... all the urban myths were true. Next you'll be playing adam joseph songs at us to try and convert us all

[Collin152]

i suspect this "paper work" is some sort of trap


Nah, it's just a list of agreements and concessions with and to Homo Superior.
In exchange, you get to live.

[thubby]

enter the matrix?

[Jazzpirate]

I'm surprised there are so many gay/lesbian/bi/whatever people here. Not that I care, it just surprised me.
I grew up in a pretty small town, and when we were about sixteen a friend of mine admitted he was gay on a school trip. Of course within minutes everybody knew, but no one cared, which really surprised me. Nobody seemed to treat him any different. I guess my school really rocked in that matter.

[unosarta]

thank you guys all for posting. the advice is really great [especially about the homophobic zombies...] just for the record, my friend would, probably understand, i just want the advice:smalltongue:. im thinking about telling my friend soon [whose parents are lesbian, so hes probably going to understand]. about coming out in general, trying to act like you are straight is FREAKING IMPOSSIBLE!!:smallfrown: constantly wondering if someone found out, and if they are telling people, wondering if people walking on the street know, wondering if your friends know, wondering if your friends care, trying to act straight, it drives you paranoid. but hey, thats just my opinion. thank you for the advice!!:smallsmile:

[The Extinguisher]

I've never seen the appeal in coming out. It seems that if you are worried it will draw negative attention to you, why draw attention to it yourself. Just be yourself, who ever that may be. There's no need to stay in the closet, but shouting to the world isn't the best idea either. It's not some horrible disease that you have to let your freinds know about because you are going to die. It's just who you are. Act like it, and to hell with what anyone else thinks.

Honestly, just be. Don't worry about how to, or who to tell. Just be.

[unosarta]

the problem with those thoughts is [while they are still valid] the negative status of being gay. plus bottling it up is really stressful.

[Player_Zero]

I don't think anyone is going to 'find out' unless you go around kissing boys in public and in front of people you know. :smalltongue:

But yeah, it seems as though you're just worrying about this a bit too much. I'm sure nothing bad will come of telling people.

[unosarta]

I don't think anyone is going to 'find out' unless you go around kissing boys in public and in front of people you know. :smalltongue:

best quote ever.

[Pinnacle]

I've never seen the appeal in coming out. It seems that if you are worried it will draw negative attention to you, why draw attention to it yourself. Just be yourself, who ever that may be. There's no need to stay in the closet, but shouting to the world isn't the best idea either. It's not some horrible disease that you have to let your freinds know about because you are going to die. It's just who you are. Act like it, and to hell with what anyone else thinks.

Because when nobody knows, it feels like you're lying about something important to you. You may not technically be making an effort to hide it from anyone, but it still feels like you are. And that's painful.

Most of the people I interact with IRL don't know I'm gay, and that's fine. But when none of my friends knew either, I wasn't fine.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Just putting in my two cents here.

For the record, I'm Catholic, I'm heterosexual, and I can recite the couple of places in the Bible where "God" tells people to kill each other because they like people of the same sex.

But as a human being, I think you should probably just get out there. A friend who has requirements to your friendship is not a true friend, and whether this comes out in the wash to be a good or a bad thing short term, you will most likely feel better once you can be yourself.

You say "acting straight" is difficult. Stop acting. You are a human being, with a right to your own thoughts. You won't spontaneously die because the world knows you like the same sex, and no one will hunt you down in a rational world.

I disagree with the statement that parents are tyrants on your life, but I would suggest strongly that you talk to a friend first, or someone you really trust, and bring them along when you talk to your parents. Emotional support is critical when you are trying to get a message across, and unless you are a skilled speaker (and even if you are), you could use the morale.

But that's just the two cents of a breeder.

I wish you luck and grace. Never lie to yourself, you can always see through your own poker face.

[Myshlaevsky]

While I'm not gay (and therefore can't speak from personal experience) I've been 'come out to' three times, and each of those people has said they felt ridiculously better once they had told someone. Only one announced it to the world, however - the other two only told a small circle of friends and relatives (though it did eventually spread from there). One guy said that he felt that he was denying a massive part of himself when he hadn't told anyone, and that he was actually mentally exhausted from all the effort he put into keeping the fact that was gay from people.

I can't offer much beyond what has already been said in this thread, but I'd emphasise you should tell someone you know will take it well first -of course, there's a chance someone will know or suspect. Two of these people first told a relative who was not their father or mother - one told an aunt and one told their brother - because they weren't sure of how their parents would take it. These relatives then were there to support them when they finally did.

As some positive reinforcement, too - a negative consequence of their coming out is yet to occur for these people. Everyone (and I mean outside of their circle of friends too) has accepted it and not really bothered - it's naturally changed their lives, but not in a negative way.

[Pinnacle]

in a rational world.

Oh! Do you live in one? Can I come visit!?

Please? :smalleek:

[Bronathair]

Dude... let's be very honest with each other.

If your friend doesn't accept you, your FRIEND... that doesn't sound like a good friend to me. Friends are there for you through thick and thin, not just when you conform to their ideals. If your friend is a good friend then he'll be cool with it... if not you can make better ones, amirite?

[Sir_Chivalry]

Oh! Do you live in one? Can I come visit!?

Please? :smalleek:

Yep, sure do Pinnacle. The same rational world that has worse things to do to innocent people over in Africa and the Middle East. The same rational world that lets 95% of the world starve so that 5% can gorge themselves into a happy sleep.

I'll admit people might not be immediately accepting of the OP, but if the worst the OP has to deal with in life is feeling unacceptance for being true to themselves, it is alot better than feeling crushing despair because you aren't (being true).

The Op won't be stoned, or lynched, or shot. There is not going to be a magical team of evil horsemen who appear to do horrible things because the OP came out.

That being said, I get where you are coming from, and yes, life can be harsh, but it doesn't make it less rational.

[Paladin29]

Just putting in my two cents here.

For the record, I'm Catholic, I'm heterosexual, and I can recite the couple of places in the Bible where "God" tells people to kill each other because they like people of the same sex.

If you think about it, a christian (I am catholic too) must be open minded, the message of Christ is clear, love all the people no matter the circunstances, sadly our Holy Mother Church is two or three centuries behind the real world. If you analyze it in the historical context all the anti-homosexual quotes of the Bible have a demographic reason more than moral.

[Jade_Tarem]

Huh... I always thought that the anti-homosexual text in the Bible did have a moral point, but not the one people usually think of.

Homosexuality was considered adultery then, because historically in many cases that's almost exactly what it was. A way to get cheap thrills. I'm not sure about the older civilizations, but the Romans were pretty big on cheap thrills towards the end of the empire (homosexual and heterosexual, um, promisicuity was quite common), and the idea that there could be genuine love and a relationship of that nature between two members of the same gender was somewhat alien, pederasty notwithstanding.

I could be completely wrong here; I'm not a theologist, but from what I had learned of history that text always made the most sense when thought of in that fashion: the messages in the Bible were instructions to stay away from homosexual relations because various sinners considered it to "not count" as adultery. Of course, rather than going into details like that (and again, the idea of a commited relationship between gays, or gays in general may have been a somewhat new or strange idea), the Bible just condemns all homosexuality. I mean, it also condones, or at least fails to condemn, slavery, and there is that one memorable instance where Lot (could be wrong, but I think it's Lot), the last righteous man in Sodom, gives his daughter over to bandits to be gang raped to protect his guests. Time marches on.

[Tallis]

Well, all the advice I could give has already been said, but I'll repeat it just to add a voice of encouragement.

If there is an LGBA/LGBT in your area check it out. I'm sure you'll be able to find people that have been through it and will be supportive of you. Any time you are going through a difficult time in your life you should surround yourself with people who will support you. They can help you get through it.

Talk to the people you trust to be most understanding first. Bring them with you when you talk to people you're not as sure of. Use the mob mentality in your favor. Introducing people with a positive attitude into the group will make others more likely to be positive.

You said your friends parents are lesbians? Are they people that you can talk to? If so get their advice, and hopefully support.

None of us know your parents, so you'll have to decide how to deal with them. If you think they'll be supportive then I'd suggest making them some of the first people you tell. It's good to have family on your side since you'll probably have to be arround them a lot. If you're not sure wait until you have other people on your side to support you. If you really think they'll take it badly (shame on them if they can't accept their own child) then maybe you should wait. Drop hints to see how they'll react, but don't tell them until you are either sure they'll be okay or you're getting ready to move out. You don't want that kind of tension at home and you'll still have friends that you can confide in.

Ultimately this is all just the opinion of someone who's never had to go through this. You'll have to decide for yourself which advice is good and which isn't. Hopefully I speak for everyone when I wish you luck and tell you that you have our support. Good luck and don't be afraid to be yourself.

[Paladin29]

really?.. well, think about the prohibition of eat pig meat in Islam, it is a moral prescription, muslim´d say yes, but it has more to do with the illness associated to that animal in the early middle ages. Many of the prohibitions or prescriptions in abrahamic religions have these more prosaic origins, I think the anti-homosexuality in ancient testament and in the Saint Paul writings belongs to that type of prescription.

[Sir_Chivalry]

If you think about it, a christian (I am catholic too) must be open minded, the message of Christ is clear, love all the people no matter the circunstances, sadly our Holy Mother Church is two or three centuries behind the real world. If you analyze it in the historical context all the anti-homosexual quotes of the Bible have a demographic reason more than moral.

Exactly, open-mindedness rules

[Pinnacle]

Yep, sure do Pinnacle. The same rational world that has worse things to do to innocent people over in Africa and the Middle East. The same rational world that lets 95% of the world starve so that 5% can gorge themselves into a happy sleep.

That's not rational, that's my point...

[Telonius]

Huh... I always thought that the anti-homosexual text in the Bible did have a moral point, but not the one people usually think of.

Homosexuality was considered adultery then, because historically in many cases that's almost exactly what it was. A way to get cheap thrills. I'm not sure about the older civilizations, but the Romans were pretty big on cheap thrills towards the end of the empire (homosexual and heterosexual, um, promisicuity was quite common), and the idea that there could be genuine love and a relationship of that nature between two members of the same gender was somewhat alien, pederasty notwithstanding.

I could be completely wrong here; I'm not a theologist, but from what I had learned of history that text always made the most sense when thought of in that fashion: the messages in the Bible were instructions to stay away from homosexual relations because various sinners considered it to "not count" as adultery. Of course, rather than going into details like that (and again, the idea of a commited relationship between gays, or gays in general may have been a somewhat new or strange idea), the Bible just condemns all homosexuality. I mean, it also condones, or at least fails to condemn, slavery, and there is that one memorable instance where Lot (could be wrong, but I think it's Lot), the last righteous man in Sodom, gives his daughter over to bandits to be gang raped to protect his guests. Time marches on.

Just a historical point, but most of the biblical items regarding homosexuality come from the Old Testament. The Romans weren't a world power when that was written, and the Republic had only been overthrown for a few years when the events of the Gospels were supposed to have occurred.

Promiscuity and thrillseeking was by no means limited to the Romans, and some of the other world powers of the ancient world had some even stranger things going on. For example, the Pharaohs' family trees tended not to branch out very often. :smalleek:

[Jade_Tarem]

Just a historical point, but most of the biblical items regarding homosexuality come from the Old Testament. The Romans weren't a world power when that was written, and the Republic had only been overthrown for a few years when the events of the Gospels were supposed to have occurred.

Promiscuity and thrillseeking was by no means limited to the Romans, and some of the other world powers of the ancient world had some even stranger things going on. For example, the Pharaohs' family trees tended not to branch out very often. :smalleek:

Yeah, I knew that the Old Testament was older than the height of the Roman Empire's power, but I didn't know how things were in older civilizations. I'd thank you for posting the extra information about the pharaohs, but I'm too busy soaking my brain in acid. :smalleek:

[captain_decadence]

The Op won't be stoned, or lynched, or shot. There is not going to be a magical team of evil horsemen who appear to do horrible things because the OP came out.


Except that this kind of stuff does happen. It's not that well publicized but i've done research into adolescents and the coming out process (for a term paper in my Adolescent Development class) and people are kicked out of their houses, beaten, held hostage in their own home and many other things. I found reports of kids in the last two years who were beaten by other kids at their school, ignored by teachers, told they were evil by school counselors (who then outed them to the entire school and tried to have them expelled), and even a kid who came out and was then hit by a truck full of kids from his high school. They yelled "queer" as they ran him down while he tried to get away on a bicycle.

I'm not sure if some of the things that I found in the reports are kosher for the play ground but let's just say that one kid was chained to a water heater for a year and that was the nicest thing that his parents did to him. I cried reading it (seriously).

The world has changed alot for white liberal families that live in the suburbs of America but don't assume that the situation will just work itself out if you "just live as you are".

I've never experienced a single problem from being gay but that doesn't mean that there aren't problems.

[The Extinguisher]

Because when nobody knows, it feels like you're lying about something important to you. You may not technically be making an effort to hide it from anyone, but it still feels like you are. And that's painful.


I think that's because you are hiding it at that point, even if you don't think you are. If you just be how you are, then what does it matter what people think of you? I don't think it's bottling it up. You aren't lying to yourself or others. It just doesn't matter.
But that's just how I made it through it all.

Also, can you try and keep religion out of it, so the thread isn't locked.

[unosarta]

well guys, thanks for all the posts. they really helped, and appreciate all the thought you put into them. i just recently came out to my best friend of 5 years. i still haven't had the chance to talk to him, but im sure its cool. thank you all for the posts.:smile:

[Lord Herman]

Hey, that's great! Let us know how it goes.

[xPANCAKEx]

glad to hear it - sounds like you've got a better taste in friends than you ever knew! ;)

hope it carries on well