Kraagor's Gate

[Dunesen]

Something probably asked already, but why is Team Evil focusing on Girard's gate rather than Kraagor's? Is it simply that crossing the ocean is easier than crossing eight nations?

Because it seems blasting one's way through the monsters at Kraagor's gate would be simpler than trying to decipher all the illusions at Girard's. Particularly when blasting your way through a problem is Xykon's primary modus operandi.

[Spiryt]

Well, they anyone must go to both. Then they had just chosen this one first.

[Trazoi]

Well, we know that Team Evil has to go to Girard's gate first because of the Oracle's prophecy, but that isn't a justification for Redcloak who is almost certainly completely ignorant of this. And story-wise Kraagor's gate has "final challenge" written all over it.

My current impression is that Redcloak simply thinks Girard's gate is easier to get to. It's possibly just a hop across the ocean. Kraagor's gate sounds like it'd take a great struggle to reach.

[hamishspence]

"so help me, if you make me sail a ship made of hobgoblin corpses across the ocean, I will find a way to make you pay" Redcloak didn't seem that keen on the idea then.

[Dunesen]

Well, we know that Team Evil has to go to Girard's gate first because of the Oracle's prophecy, but that isn't a justification for Redcloak who is almost certainly completely ignorant of this. And story-wise Kraagor's gate has "final challenge" written all over it.

I don't think it's a final challenge, so much as the general area of it being in the north indicates a return to Durkon's homeland around the same time, and if you've read On the Origin of PCs you know what will happen.

So that's an answer from a writing perspective. But why wouldn't Redcloak (or especially Xykon) prefer Kraagor's to Girard's?

[Trazoi]

"so help me, if you make me sail a ship made of hobgoblin corpses across the ocean, I will find a way to make you pay" Redcloak didn't seem that keen on the idea then.
Team Evil didn't control a harbour city at the time. Constructing a fleet seems easier to me than invading eight nations.

@Dunesen: That's sort of what I mean. The environment, backstory and so on seem a bit more epic to me at Kraagor's gate, so it's a better setting for the final showdown (at least in my eyes).

[NerfTW]

I agree that it's probably because now they control a port city and ships. Before, they were basically landlocked with an army that normally lived in the mountains.

Plus, Redcloak has decided that slaughtering hobgoblins is wrong, so he wants to minimize casualties. Storming through eight nations would be extremely difficult and time consuming, even for Xykon.

[factotum]

"so help me, if you make me sail a ship made of hobgoblin corpses across the ocean, I will find a way to make you pay" Redcloak didn't seem that keen on the idea then.

I think it was more the idea of sailing in a ship made of corpses he was worried about, rather than the idea of crossing the ocean...

[BRC]

I agree that it's probably because now they control a port city and ships. Before, they were basically landlocked with an army that normally lived in the mountains.

Plus, Redcloak has decided that slaughtering hobgoblins is wrong, so he wants to minimize casualties. Storming through eight nations would be extremely difficult and time consuming, even for Xykon.
Also, if Girard's gate is riddles and illusions, there will likely be less casualties then Kraagor's gate, where Xykon will just swarm hte big tough monsters with hobgoblins.

[AceOfFools]

I'm not sure this will come up, but...

In 3.x undead were immune to mind influencing magic, and the deadlist illusion (the one that killed you) was a mind influencing spell, as were many others even nastier. A lich is one of the best things to throw into an illusion-based dungeon.

Not to mention that illusions are just straight up less hazardous than the armies of eight human nations + the whatever joins up to fight off the goblinoid horde.

[Dunesen]

Also, if Girard's gate is riddles and illusions, there will likely be less casualties then Kraagor's gate, where Xykon will just swarm hte big tough monsters with hobgoblins.

Redcloak is unlikely to go along with the plan of just throwing hobgoglins away now. He and Xykon could probably make their way through the dungeon(?) slowly but surely on their own.

[An Enemy Spy]

Its not as if :nale: :sabine: and :thog: will really be an obstacle. But I bet :thog: will end destroying this one.