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Conners
2008-07-08, 09:07 AM
I'm planning on, at some point, to DM a free-roaming 4e game. The players aren't subjected to a rail-road plot and can go everywhere and anywhere, finding their own adventures.

Getting to the point, in the game world I'm planning to have NPC adventurers the PCs can join, fight, whichever. Some of these NPC adventurers, however, are meant to be of really tough stuff, and I don't want them dying at all easily.

So, basically, I want to make some NPC adventurers the equivalent of Elite and Solo characters (most are Elite, the particularly skilled are Solo). How do I do this with the NPCs having PC classes?

Indon
2008-07-08, 09:45 AM
Create a monster of the level you need (1/2 level stuff, magic threshold, yadda yadda), apply the racial modifiers for the race.

Then, apply class template.

Then, apply solo/elite template.

Starbuck_II
2008-07-08, 11:43 AM
I'm planning on, at some point, to DM a free-roaming 4e game. The players aren't subjected to a rail-road plot and can go everywhere and anywhere, finding their own adventures.

Getting to the point, in the game world I'm planning to have NPC adventurers the PCs can join, fight, whichever. Some of these NPC adventurers, however, are meant to be of really tough stuff, and I don't want them dying at all easily.

So, basically, I want to make some NPC adventurers the equivalent of Elite and Solo characters (most are Elite, the particularly skilled are Solo). How do I do this with the NPCs having PC classes?

Are you making them by Scratch or adding class template (Elite) to monsters?

If by Scratch: pg 187 are classes for npcs
Then add elite or solo template as desired.

If to a current monster: just add the class template (elite) of class you want. If want solo, first make monster elite (double hp, etc) than add these templates.

RTGoodman
2008-07-08, 01:24 PM
Since, according to the reply I got from WotC CustServ, NPCs made with the actual NPC creation rules in the DMGa are basically normal monsters, you can throw on Functional templates to beef them up. Want a multiclass Wizard/Warlord? Just make the wizard and add the Warlord template. Want a loyal bodyguard? Throw together a Dwarf Fighter and give him the Bodyguard template. Those are Elite NPCs now. If you want more, just add another template.

JaxGaret
2008-07-08, 11:35 PM
What rtg said.

I'm going to add that an Elite NPC of the PCs' level should be just about equivalent to that PC.

Dausuul
2008-07-09, 06:48 AM
What rtg said.

I'm going to add that an Elite NPC of the PCs' level should be just about equivalent to that PC.

Er? No. An Elite NPC of the PCs' level should be just about equivalent to two PCs. That's what Elite means.

Conners
2008-07-10, 07:55 AM
Er? No. An Elite NPC of the PCs' level should be just about equivalent to two PCs. That's what Elite means. Are you sure? I'm pretty sure Elites of the same level are meant to square off about even with a PC.

The Mormegil
2008-07-10, 08:20 AM
I wouldn't think so, as a "normal" encounter is basically X monsters of the PC's level, where X is the number of PCs in your party. And an elite works as two monsters.

Conners
2008-07-10, 08:50 AM
I wouldn't think so, as a "normal" encounter is basically X monsters of the PC's level, where X is the number of PCs in your party. And an elite works as two monsters. So an Elite-PC of the same level is worth about two PCs, then? Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

spotmarkedx
2008-07-10, 12:09 PM
I wouldn't think so, as a "normal" encounter is basically X monsters of the PC's level, where X is the number of PCs in your party. And an elite works as two monsters.
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I agree that when the DM is building a "regular" encounter, you pair a regular monster of that level against each character in the party, and that an elite counts as two of those monsters.

But a L1 monster equalling a L1 PC? Hardly. If this were the case, you would expect that the monsters would win about 50% of the fights wouldn't you? After all, you are pitting like numbers against like. And encounters of higher level than the party? Almost assured TPK, right?

There is a difference between encounter design (which is there to test the PCs, not kill them) and actual ability. I think Conners is about right, probably. An elite is more equivalent to a PC than a regular monster.

Dan_Hemmens
2008-07-10, 12:11 PM
Is this for your "Open World PbP" thing? If so, I'd actually just use PC stats. These guys (IIRC from the other thread) are supposed to team up with the PCs, so PC stats should work better for them than NPC stats.

Conners
2008-07-10, 12:27 PM
Is this for your "Open World PbP" thing? If so, I'd actually just use PC stats. These guys (IIRC from the other thread) are supposed to team up with the PCs, so PC stats should work better for them than NPC stats. You do have a point. I could just add on a few stat points to the special adventurers.

Dan_Hemmens
2008-07-10, 12:50 PM
You do have a point. I could just add on a few stat points to the special adventurers.

Or just make them plain higher level.

Conners
2008-07-11, 02:48 AM
Or just make them plain higher level. That doesn't exactly work out, since my main worry was that they'd die from an adventure--and putting them at higher levels only means they take on harder adventures.

Tsadrin
2008-07-19, 10:49 PM
That doesn't exactly work out, since my main worry was that they'd die from an adventure--and putting them at higher levels only means they take on harder adventures.

Why is this an issue? The NPCs should have as much of a chance to die as the PCs.