Stupid mosters round II plus a 4e review.

[Jayngfet]

Head injury theater(famous for this (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article73.htm)) has done a second article (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article95.htm), and a review/introduction to 4e (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article95a.htm).

[LoopyZebra]

Very funny. Thanks for posting this.

I'm tempted to run a "classic" monsters game against my players, and use particularly stupid 1e and 2e monsters. But I have a feeling that they'd kill me when they found out the dungeon was actually a monster.

[Bryn]

The monsters article was great, not a whole lot to say about this apart from 'it was very funny'.

Here is a spoiler. The contents are kept only for posterity, because people have responded to them. While I still hold this opinion, I'd rather not debate it.
The 4e thing was also good right up until he brought up the MMO thing. I had hoped that I would never see that particular statement again... but apparently not. DnD will never be like a computer roleplaying game until the DM is replaced by a computer. Eh, oh well. Apart from that,
The 4e article was likewise pretty funny, but I don't agree with all of his points, especially regarding miniatures.

[Oslecamo]

Even he suports that 4e blatantly copies popular MMORPGs to atract new players.

Well, WotC was always a money making company first and foremost.

[Kizara]

Good links, thanks for posting.

The 4e article was a bit dry and short of information or opinion in comparison, but nonetheless was wroth the read.

"Checkers on crack" was a decent analogy.

[nagora]

The 4e thing was also good right up until he brought up the MMO thing. I had hoped that I would never see that particular statement again... but apparently not.
There's a reason some things become cliches.

[Duke of URL]

The 4e thing was also good right up until he brought up the MMO thing. I had hoped that I would never see that particular statement again... but apparently not. DnD will never be like a computer roleplaying game until the DM is replaced by a computer.

Which is exactly what the author said. Until you can get a human-like artificial intelligence with natural language processing, there's no way to replace a PnP game with a computer, because it can't account for the sheer randomness and deviousness of humans otherwise. So what you get until then if you try is frustration in being unable to do things "outside the box" and a recipe for players to exploit any blind spots or loopholes in the computer program.

On the other hand, it's a cold, hard fact that 4e is strongly influenced by MMOs, and the author clearly identifies the two main reasons: 1) MMOs are derived from D&D in the first place, so reverse adoption of ideas is logical and natural, and 2) WotC is trying to market to the MMO crowd, so including concepts they are used to will help them there.

Now, whether this influence is a net positive or negative thing, or whether it even matters at all, is a subject for individual interpretation and opinion. But it is there.

[Swordguy]

There's a reason some things become cliches.

Indeed. Conceptually, the theory that 4e pulls from MMORPGs is correct. There is a distinct difference between that fact (not to mention a matter of opinion) and whether that fact is a good or bad thing.

Call it good or bad all you like - it's your perogative. But don't say that it doesn't take inspiration from video game sources at all, because you're wrong.



Oh, and the articles were not bad, though I liked his first one better. And I can't believe he dredged up those damnable singing mushrooms from Dungeon Magazine. "Taste like caviar" indeed...

EDIT: Duke of URL, I swear to god that your response wasn't there when I read this thread, regardless of what the time stamps say.

[Bryn]

I apparently, in the heat of the moment, said something controversial, for which I apologise. I'm not going to get into a protracted internet debate about this, so I'm just going to say that I mostly disagree and bow out in the interests of avoiding arguments.

To the OP, sorry for dragging a thread about a fun article about silly monsters and another fun article about the silliness of some aspects of DnD 4e stright into the edition wars, which are decidedly not fun.

[kjones]

I was really hoping that the "Animated Series Handbook" was a joke, but I looked it up and it's a published supplement sold alongside the complete DVD box set of the animated series.

Why would a benevolent god allow such a thing to exist?

[RukiTanuki]

I was really hoping that the "Animated Series Handbook" was a joke, but I looked it up and it's a published supplement sold alongside the complete DVD box set of the animated series.

Why would a benevolent god allow such a thing to exist?

Aw, I liked that little booklet. I gave the bow to one of my players' characters.

As for the OP, I only have this:

Today's Dork Tower comic. (http://archive.gamespy.com/comics/dorktower/archive.asp?nextform=viewcomic&id=1400)

[shadow_archmagi]

4e IS similar to an MMO in the sense of the way combat works and the way characters progress. That is, WoW rogues and WoW druids both do the exact same thing when they level up: Spend their talent point, buy the same spell they bought 3 levels ago with a bigger number on it, like Fireball 3.

This has been said a million times before. It just depends on whether you like its advantages more than you hate its disadvantages, and whether you even CONSIDER the ups to be downs or not.