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Leliel
2008-07-10, 05:34 PM
A not-so-long time ago, in a forum not-so-far away, in a thread that was, well, not-so-awe inspiring-most of the responses were poor-the TC asked, "What if the reason dungeons in D&D spring up like weeds is beacuse, in a sense, they are weeds? Are the dungeons, quite literally, alive?" While in core, this is of course impossible, it gave me an idea:

Most of the dungeons in the world are actually the "chrysalis" of an ancient and powerful race of aliens known, quite fittingly, as the "Dreaming Ones". Larva of the Dreamers travel in large groups (explaning why there are so many dungeons on a particular planet), landing on whatever world suits their fancy and creating semi-living cocoons around themselves that take a form fitting to whatever paticular environment (a Dreamer who lands in a churchyard might have a nercopolis pupa for example), though they assume a fully organic form when the Dreamer is almost mature. Of course, they just can't shut all entrances and call it a day though-Dreamers need magic items to help their metamorphosis, and though they can enchant items themselves without much effort (explaing how all those +4 rapiers got there), they need some help. So to do that, they telapathically call monsters searching for a home to them, and in return for finding items the Dreamers can enchant, the monsters are provided food, water, various valuable minerals, (the Dreaming Ones literally poop gold) and servants (the reason the Dreamers are called that is that they can "dream" creatures into existance-kobolds were created to serve dragons, for example). The trouble is, many of those same items happen to belong to civillized races, and the monsters, being nasty to start with, aren't about to negotiate for them.

So what do you suggest for a plot involving these "living dungeons?"

Jack_Simth
2008-07-10, 05:42 PM
First plot would simply revolve around figuring out that something funny is up with the dungeons. Whether that starts with a dungeon cropping up somewhere there wasn't one previously, watching something impossible for normal masonry to do occur (kobold simply popping into existence, stone walls producing food, whatever), or the dungeon asking the party to help find magic items, or tracking down where a low-life got the equippage to do the big thefts (but doesn't seem to be either selling nor keeping most the stuff he steals), this is, ultimately, the first quest (unless you warn your players about it ahead of time).

Hal
2008-07-10, 06:04 PM
You could have some dungeons whose designs make no sense for their seeming purpose. Where does anyone in it sleep, eat, or other bodily functions? Why are there stairways that lead no where? Why is the most important functional room not in a logical location?

Next, at some point some spellcaster is going to miss with a big, explosive spell. If one of the players don't do it, then an NPC/minion certainly will. The first time it happens, it blows away stone from the wall and reveals a bleeding, pulsing, fleshy wall.

That should get the ball rolling.

Ascension
2008-07-10, 06:19 PM
At some point you definitely need to send them into a dungeon that's almost done with its metamorphosis and is clearly organic. That'll probably come long after they've figured out that something fishy's going on, but it has to happen. There are some cool rules for variant dungeon materials, including living walls, in Dungeonscape.

I love this idea. You've got to let me know about it if you run this as a PbP game. Pretty please?

Leliel
2008-07-10, 06:27 PM
At some point you definitely need to send them into a dungeon that's almost done with its metamorphosis and is clearly organic. That'll probably come long after they've figured out that something fishy's going on, but it has to happen. There are some cool rules for variant dungeon materials, including living walls, in Dungeonscape.

I love this idea. You've got to let me know about it if you run this as a PbP game. Pretty please?

Thinking about it...Going to put it on these boards right here in fact.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-07-10, 06:32 PM
Heh, this lends credence to my "kobold layer theory" :smallamused:

In short, the minor evil underdwellers like goblins, kobolds, and trogs are actually spawned by the Earth directly to repel mining races. This explains why, despite none of them showing an inclination for agriculture or craftwork, they all are well armed and often have sophisticated traps in their lairs. Kobolds are the weak link here, since the Earth has to make it looks like they're miners to allow them to have so many traps - this fact was noticed by dragons long ago, who collectively struck a bargain with the Earth. In return for keeping quiet, they would be paid with pure metals and large gemstones, which is why they all have such massive treasure troves.

It's a flawless theory :smallbiggrin:

The best way to set up this chain is for a town to start being harassed by monsters from a nearby dungeon that everyone agrees should never have been there. Eventually, the PCs link a bunch of dungeons together with a "lost civilization" that was never there, and ultimately they'll stumble upon an ancient dungeon which has a couple "Dungeon Seeds" inside, ready to go out into the world and grow.

chiasaur11
2008-07-10, 06:52 PM
So, what's an adult dungeon like?

I mean, could an immature dungeon, prematurely awoken, be a Terrasque?

Oracle_Hunter
2008-07-10, 07:21 PM
So, what's an adult dungeon like?

I mean, could an immature dungeon, prematurely awoken, be a Terrasque?

Nah, Tarrasques are lame. I'd imagine Baby Dungeons to be Earth Elemental-esque monsters, maybe reptilian. Adult Dungeons lose that mobility and spawn certain species of monster to act as their digestive enzymes.

erikun
2008-07-10, 07:33 PM
First, I could argue that dungeons are living beings - they live by being a gathering place for creatures, grow by being expanded on or by attracting greater monsters, have a will of their own through the collective designs of their inhabitants, and ultimately get emptied out and die off, changing from a dungeon to just a difficult obstruction.

Other than that, it seems like a neat idea. Jack Simth made an interesting point about a dungeon adopting the PCs - perhaps, if the PCs end up lost or cast out from a town, they'll hear the calling of a dungeon themselves, and take up residence. After all, a home that produces it's own food and creates extra rooms that you need would probably be pretty useful.

chiasaur11
2008-07-10, 07:39 PM
First, I could argue that dungeons are living beings - they live by being a gathering place for creatures, grow by being expanded on or by attracting greater monsters, have a will of their own through the collective designs of their inhabitants, and ultimately get emptied out and die off, changing from a dungeon to just a difficult obstruction.

Other than that, it seems like a neat idea. Jack Simth made an interesting point about a dungeon adopting the PCs - perhaps, if the PCs end up lost or cast out from a town, they'll hear the calling of a dungeon themselves, and take up residence. After all, a home that produces it's own food and creates extra rooms that you need would probably be pretty useful.

So Kobold minions, free loot in exchange for part of the take, and an easy quest source.

Neat.

Randel
2008-07-10, 07:54 PM
Hmm, what if dungeons are more like giant hives or a collection of creatures?

Say, they have creatures that eat rack to hollow out caverns, then mimics or similar monsters come in and line the walls of the place and turn into the dungeon walls and ceiling. After a long time the mimics 'solidify' into rock or whatever.

Some kind of cloning ooze gets samples of monster DNA and and creates random monsters to attack invaders (since having just a select number of the dungeons own monsters would limit the variety of their defences) the cloned monsters are all enchanted to defend the dungeon and act kind of like bacteria in a human body. They aren't 'part' of it but they help defend it.

Gelatinous cubes clean out corpses and send the resulting nutrients to the cloning oozes.

Traps could be the result of the mimics just forming traps or might be specialized parts created by more intelligent parts of the dungeon. Food is created in certain areas to feed the monsters and non-solidified mimics. Magic items are usually just the result of adventurers or other intelligent races getting caught by it. Though more mature and intelligent dungeons might create some.

Dungeons could exist for several purposes:

1. They were installed by an ancient race that didn't like working and made self-replicating housing. It went out of control and now they have this.

2. The dungeon seeds near a rich mineral deposite and works its way inside to convert valuable ore into coins and other objects.

3. They are a sort of gene-bank, with stored DNA used to clone creatures who would normally go extinct otherwise.

4. The seemingly random corridors are actually supposed to work to redirect Ley-lines or something similar. The dungeons form along magical pathways in the earth and through their massive obstruction are redirecting those paths.

Origionally, they might have been intended to improve the planets energy lines and bring about greater harvests and goodness in the worlds, but the dungeons are all seperate and don't cooperate. This results in some areas being flooded with energy, some areas dead and empty, and other abberations. If someone could conquer and control all the dungeons they could control the flow of power and do great good... or evil.

5. They are self-replicating army bases. By cloning and supplying weapons to their armies the combined might of all these dungeons could conquer the world. However, its not known how to control them. They may need certain minerals or magic 'programming' to produce sufficiently massive numbers of creatures.

6. They are prototypes for a universe-revising von-neuman machine. The current dungeons work pretty nice in the material plane and can be found in all sorts of places. In deserts, volcanic areas, underwater, cursed ground, etc. These different dungeons adapt to their environment and work to counteract invaders. They then make a blueprint of 'core' that shows the results of their date.

One ultimate plan would be to collect the data from all the dungeons on the material plane and combine them into a super-dungeon. Then crate many seeds and send them to the abyss and other planes of existence. These super-dungeons would then tear into the planes foundation and kill all the inhabitants. Even the legions of hell would find it difficult to work though countless souped-up versions of the Tomb-of-Horrors who's sole purpose is to replicate until the entire abyss is uninhabitable by ANYTHING.


Alternately, a mutant dungeon might put all its nasty traps and monsters on the OUTSIDE and look more like a huge blight that slowly creeps across the surface of the world turning green grass and rocky outcroppings into trap-laden stonework with a labyrinth of maze-walls growing instead of trees.

Uriel Valentine
2008-07-10, 08:15 PM
The first thing I thought of when I read the thread title was System Shock. While not exactly the same as your idea, it basically entailed you being trapped on a space station, controlled by a rather... psychopathic computer by the name of SHODAN. Having no physical form she couldn't really attack you herself, but she could make the entire place you were wandering around in do it for her, so that wasn't really a concern. All the time you were fighting off her beasties, she could scream at you in the background, promising you death, destruction, retribution... It was very unnerving.

Perhaps you could completely trap your players inside a malicious, twisted dungeon that can change itself just to spite the people trapped inside. You really would be fighting against the dungeon then. Maybe make the end-boss a GLaDOS style fight, destroy the heart of the dungeon and you'll be able to get out. The only way to escape is by going further in.

BRC
2008-07-10, 08:18 PM
Maybe dungeons were designed by the gods with the sole purpose of isolating evil threats, while at the same time allowing adventurers to get powerful enough to fight lovecraftian hellspawn and stand a chance.


Also Uriel, You have your sig backwards. The line is
"I Don't have to deal with this shabby crap, I'M A JOURNALIST!"

Uriel Valentine
2008-07-10, 08:25 PM
Also Uriel, You have your sig backwards. The line is
"I Don't have to deal with this shabby crap, I'M A JOURNALIST!"

Well, damn. This means it's been altogether too long since I read that book.
I'mma go dig it out~ Possibly find a different, better Spider quote. xD

CockroachTeaParty
2008-07-10, 08:33 PM
This whole thing reminds me of Pathways Into Darkness. Anybody ever play that game?

The dungeon, which was a pyramid, was created from the dreams of a half-dead alien god. Spooky. Good times.

By cracky, them's were the days! Back befur Bungie had them there newfangled Halo's! Pathways'n Marathon! That's all I need! None o'this iPods, 'n women's rights, n'Japanese gameshows on the television! Whatever happened ta Snickers bars fer a nickle? Where's me slippers? zzzzzz....

chiasaur11
2008-07-10, 08:49 PM
This whole thing reminds me of Pathways Into Darkness. Anybody ever play that game?

The dungeon, which was a pyramid, was created from the dreams of a half-dead alien god. Spooky. Good times.

By cracky, them's were the days! Back befur Bungie had them there newfangled Halo's! Pathways'n Marathon! That's all I need! None o'this iPods, 'n women's rights, n'Japanese gameshows on the television! Whatever happened ta Snickers bars fer a nickle? Where's me slippers? zzzzzz....

That's nice gramps.
Remember to take your pills.

Renegade Paladin
2008-07-10, 08:57 PM
Congratulations on paraphrasing a sidebar from Dungeonscape. I'm sure Rich would be proud. :smalltongue:

LibraryOgre
2008-07-10, 10:42 PM
"This ground sure feels strange... doesn't feel like rock."

First thing that popped into my head.

Benejeseret
2008-07-10, 11:12 PM
I love the cloning oozes idea. I'll definitely have to steal that for a game.

At each 'dead end' a pack of oozes are constructing the dungeon outward at the tips. In a few central pools are the cloners areas out of which they spawn things.

The Ooze Elemental Creature template would be great, add it to anything they clone. The spawned ooze elemental clones scavenge the area to bring in food for the ooze-dungeon.

Mayhap at its heart a Living Spell Ooze, perhaps a modified Amorphous Form spell that literally turn all it encounters into oozes.

The whole dungeon would look otherwise 'normal' in structure for the area but has the look of jello, kind of wobbly and not quite right. It could deal constant digestion damage to anyone who lays down, and slowly and steadily damages boots until eaten away.

If it matures, all the oozes within fuse and it becomes a colossal (or + or ++) ooze with the PC's inside!!

Darkantra
2008-07-11, 12:19 AM
The Dreaming Ones should each have their own unique symbiotic organism that helps to speed along their development, call them the Caretakers. A specifically tailored Ethereal Filcher or Xorn who lives in the flesh/walls of the Dreamers and exit only to further entice creatures to live there. They could uncover mineral deposits, leave magical items just within notice and help to tool out areas to better suit the creatures living there.

As for a plot point the PCs might go through a dungeon entirely only to be sent back to retrieve another item. When they arrive the DM can describe things slightly differently, but with enough emphasis to get the PCs attention; a wall where a corridor once lay or rooms being different sizes would work well. Of course the PCs are going to suspect that something else has taken over the dungeon but they won't know what exactly. Let them catch a glimpse of the Caretakers doing mundane things before fading back into the Dreamers.

elliott20
2008-07-11, 12:32 AM
Heh, this lends credence to my "kobold layer theory" :smallamused:

In short, the minor evil underdwellers like goblins, kobolds, and trogs are actually spawned by the Earth directly to repel mining races. This explains why, despite none of them showing an inclination for agriculture or craftwork, they all are well armed and often have sophisticated traps in their lairs. Kobolds are the weak link here, since the Earth has to make it looks like they're miners to allow them to have so many traps - this fact was noticed by dragons long ago, who collectively struck a bargain with the Earth. In return for keeping quiet, they would be paid with pure metals and large gemstones, which is why they all have such massive treasure troves.

It's a flawless theory :smallbiggrin:

The best way to set up this chain is for a town to start being harassed by monsters from a nearby dungeon that everyone agrees should never have been there. Eventually, the PCs link a bunch of dungeons together with a "lost civilization" that was never there, and ultimately they'll stumble upon an ancient dungeon which has a couple "Dungeon Seeds" inside, ready to go out into the world and grow.

that... that's just brilliant!!! I... I cannot find fault in this theory!

Jack Mann
2008-07-11, 12:36 AM
Congratulations on paraphrasing a sidebar from Dungeonscape. I'm sure Rich would be proud. :smalltongue:

I was wondering why this seemed familiar. I knew I'd read the idea before.

Randel
2008-07-11, 03:00 AM
Random ideas for the ooze dungeon:

1. they enter a room filled with jelly-like blobs with clone monsters inside them. If they attack the tendrils connecting the blobs to the main cloning ooze then it activates the monsters who proceed to attack the party.

2. They destroy some essential component of the dungeon and the walls and ceiling start to turn gooey and milky white. They find that the whole freaking dungeon is made of mimics who are waking up! Escape is necessary.

3. Damaged walls and masonry 'heal' over time, especially when nobody is looking.

4. They find cloning oozes creating humans or other 'sentient races' some of whom look strangely like that nasty guy they thought they killed a few times. Or those bandits they fought who looked like they were all related... and those healers who all look alike (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NurseJenny)...

5. Inside one room is a sort of powerful parasite or container that drains energy out of the Sealed Evil or Artifact of Doom that the dungeon is supposed to contain. The energy draining organ is guarded by one or two nasty monsters and extracting the Evil or Artifact requires defeating the monsters, breaking open the container holding the artifact and escpaing.

Once the object is removed, the loss of the energy causes the dungeon to disrupt. The walls turn to mimics and monsters are all summoned to retrieve the artifact. If the players escape, the dungeon either 'dies' and reverts to a lot of nasty oozes who escape to the contryside to start a new dungeon or it sort of reconfigures itself and shrinks to account for less energy. Sending monsters out to get more prey

Adumbration
2008-07-11, 03:33 AM
So, what's an adult dungeon like?

I mean, could an immature dungeon, prematurely awoken, be a Terrasque?

Nah, they're trollies.

Project_Mayhem
2008-07-20, 10:47 AM
Thats it, I'm sending the players of to the DnD equivilent of Jabu-Jabu's belly. I've been practicing making that squelch noise when the doors open.