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View Full Version : [4e] The path to total invincibility



Kiara LeSabre
2008-07-11, 12:38 AM
So, I just realized something: there's a way to maybe be invincible in 4e (although you have to make it to level 30)!

1. Be a halfling (I always knew they were the Master Race)

2. Take Evasion and Mettle

3. Go Demigod

4. Make sure that on getting to 30th level, each day, the first thing you do is expend all of your encounter powers with the exception of Second Chance. Blow roaches and ants apart with special attacks or something -- whatever, just so they're expended.

5. Now, avoid a short rest at all costs.

6. Any time you're hit in combat, activate Second Chance, then instantly recover it thanks to your capstone ability, and if they hit again, activate it again, instantly recover it, and just keep doing this until they miss, even if they have to roll a natural 1 to miss. Thanks to Evasion and Mettle, each miss will truly be a total miss.

7. ???

8. Profit!

elliott20
2008-07-11, 12:42 AM
right, that sounds like a LOT of fun to play.

TheOOB
2008-07-11, 12:49 AM
I can't imagine many DMs would let you use second chance more then once per an attack.

RTGoodman
2008-07-11, 12:49 AM
5. Now, avoid a short rest at all costs.

I think that could be your problem right there. Theoretically it could work, but that's going to probably NEVER happen in a real game. I mean, isn't a short rest just basically "5 minutes where you don't do any fighting?"

Also, I might be thinking of the Crusader from ToB, but doesn't the 4E PHB or DMG say something somewhere about having to use powers on targets that are legitimate threats (so no bags of holding full of mice or whatever)? If that's true, I don't think your roaches and ants would work out.

Now, if you could convince a whole slew of goblin minions \to throw themselves at you one at a time every 4 1/2 minutes or so I think you'd be okay. :smalltongue:

Kiara LeSabre
2008-07-11, 01:01 AM
right, that sounds like a LOT of fun to play.

Totally not the point.


I can't imagine many DMs would let you use second chance more then once per an attack.

Probably not, but per RAW, there's no reason you couldn't do it. Obviously, GM common sense has to come into play, but this is just a thought exercise after all. :smallwink:


I think that could be your problem right there. Theoretically it could work, but that's going to probably NEVER happen in a real game. I mean, isn't a short rest just basically "5 minutes where you don't do any fighting?"

You have to avoid any strenuous activity for five full minutes. So basically, just sit for four and one-half minutes, then do something twitchy. Jump or whatever. Instant reset! :smalltongue:

Kiara LeSabre
2008-07-11, 01:06 AM
I can actually picture Tymora seeing the halfling do this and going, "LOL!!!"

:smallbiggrin:

Foxtale
2008-07-11, 01:09 AM
I thought you only got one Immediate action per round. That means Second Chance would only work once per round, even with the Demigod ability.

Kiara LeSabre
2008-07-11, 01:11 AM
I thought you only got one Immediate action per round. That means Second Chance would only work once per round, even with the Demigod ability.

You're right! Well, never mind. Sorry, halfling. I guess only the elves get to do infinite re-rolls after all. :smallwink:

Colmarr
2008-07-11, 01:12 AM
6. Any time you're hit in combat, activate Second Chance, then instantly recover it thanks to your capstone ability, and if they hit again, activate it again, instantly recover it, and just keep doing this until they miss, even if they have to roll a natural 1 to miss. Thanks to Evasion and Mettle, each miss will truly be a total miss.

Nice try, but Second Chance is an immediate interrupt and a creature can only take one immediate action per round.

Thus you can use Second Chance, and it will immediately refresh, but you can't use it again until the next round.

EDIT: Ninja'd! :smallmad:

Colmarr
2008-07-11, 01:16 AM
I guess only the elves get to do infinite re-rolls after all. :smallwink:

This is half right. Elven Accuracy is a free action (as opposed to "not an action") and the PHB specifically states that the DM can put limits on how many free actions you can take in a round.

It's not as firm a prohibition as the one outlined above for Second Chance, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a DM that allowed you to use Elven Accuracy more than once on the same attack or Power (I'm looking at you Blade Cascade).

erikun
2008-07-11, 01:19 AM
I would not call this "invincibility" - a number of powers, specifically wizard AoEs, can still do damage even if they complete miss. Take a look at Necrotic Web, and realize that it doesn't need an attack roll to damage or immobilize.

Also, I could see this as a character - they blow through all their encounter powers in their first fight, then run around paranoid for the rest of the day (getting no rests). As I said, the halfling can still take damage, and this is yet another reason for Divine Miracle to get rule zero'd to trigger only once an attack.

Townopolis
2008-07-11, 01:27 AM
I would not call this "invincibility" - a number of powers, specifically wizard AoEs, can still do damage even if they complete miss. Take a look at Necrotic Web, and realize that it doesn't need an attack roll to damage or immobilize.

That's why you take evasion and mettle.

Kiara LeSabre
2008-07-11, 01:33 AM
It's still pretty nice since it means you get Second Chance every round, but it's hardly invincibility after all.

I fail the Interwebs. :smallfrown:

erikun
2008-07-11, 01:36 AM
That's why you take evasion and mettle.
Evasion/Mettle prevents damage on a miss. Most wizard powers don't - they create areas that deal damage if a creature is in them.

Necrotic Web deals 4d6 damage and immobilizes if the character starts their turn in the area - no attack roll, and no chance for a miss. Elemental Maw creates a vortex that deals 3d6+Int damage, teleports the creature and knocks them prone - again, no attack roll, no chance to miss. Similar spells include Acid Storm, Cloudkill, Ice Wall, and probably a few others.

Kiara LeSabre
2008-07-11, 02:19 AM
Evasion/Mettle prevents damage on a miss. Most wizard powers don't - they create areas that deal damage if a creature is in them.

Necrotic Web deals 4d6 damage and immobilizes if the character starts their turn in the area - no attack roll, and no chance for a miss. Elemental Maw creates a vortex that deals 3d6+Int damage, teleports the creature and knocks them prone - again, no attack roll, no chance to miss. Similar spells include Acid Storm, Cloudkill, Ice Wall, and probably a few others.

It deals that damage if you start there and immobilizes only if you end there. The initial immobilization only works if it hits, so if it misses, you can start your turn, take the damage, and simply move out of the web. That damage is easily absorbed by a Demigod's regeneration, so although it's a valid point, it's mostly a non-factor and not the reason this doesn't work after all.

But it gets worse, since you bring it up:

If the re-rolls were infinite as I originally thought, the halfling would actually horribly disrupt enemy wizards by forcing them to infinitely re-roll until they miss just by being anywhere in the area of effect. Lucky for wizards it doesn't work that way, because they and anyone else heavy on area attacks would be hit the hardest of all actually. Being able to do an average of 14 damage (easily and completely absorbed by a single round of Demigod regeneration) to the halfling at the start of her turn would hardly be a meaningful consolation prize.

Come to think of it, I guess that means halflings are pests for area effect specialists anyway to some extent. If they force a re-roll on any huge area attack just by being in the area, and the second roll is garbage, that can have consequences far beyond the individual halfling's welfare.

Kurald Galain
2008-07-11, 03:33 AM
Nice try, but Second Chance is an immediate interrupt and a creature can only take one immediate action per round

Yes, but I do believe you can't invoke two interrupts on the same trigger (or, indeed, the same interrupt twice on one trigger).

Helgraf
2008-07-11, 06:41 AM
It deals that damage if you start there and immobilizes only if you end there. The initial immobilization only works if it hits, so if it misses, you can start your turn, take the damage, and simply move out of the web. That damage is easily absorbed by a Demigod's regeneration, so although it's a valid point, it's mostly a non-factor and not the reason this doesn't work after all.

But it gets worse, since you bring it up:

If the re-rolls were infinite as I originally thought, the halfling would actually horribly disrupt enemy wizards by forcing them to infinitely re-roll until they miss just by being anywhere in the area of effect. Lucky for wizards it doesn't work that way, because they and anyone else heavy on area attacks would be hit the hardest of all actually. Being able to do an average of 14 damage (easily and completely absorbed by a single round of Demigod regeneration) to the halfling at the start of her turn would hardly be a meaningful consolation prize.

Come to think of it, I guess that means halflings are pests for area effect specialists anyway to some extent. If they force a re-roll on any huge area attack just by being in the area, and the second roll is garbage, that can have consequences far beyond the individual halfling's welfare.

Except Pinky, it don't work that way. 4ed, you make one attack roll per target, and a single damage roll overall. So everyone else would still be effected by the attack rolls made against them - the reroll on the attack against your halfling would not also be applied to the other 4 attack rolls made against your halfling's 4 companions.