Final Fantasy XIII on the 360

[Oregano]

Well it was announced at E3 and was probably the biggest news there. The reaction has been massive with 360 fanboys gloating and PS3 fanboys claiming Square Enix betrayed them.

What are your opinions on this, good or bad?


Personally I think it's a great idea, because it means more people can play it(including me because I don't have a PS3), it also means that Square Enix don't have to feel like they have to make a game to promote Sony's new console, they're free from Sony loyalty which means they can make all their games multiplatform and get more players.

That doesn't sound that well explained but I think it portrays my thoughts.

Also I'd like it if things could remain civil as I know this has hit a nerve with some people.

[Tom_Violence]

How could someone be annoyed about that? That would just sound immensely selfish. Unless making it for the 360 as well would somehow reduce the end product (ala the 'dumbing down our awesome PC games for the console market' line), I see no reason for someone to whine about that.

Anyway, I think its good news, since I'm probably more likely to get a 360 than a PS3.

[Om]

Personally I think it's a great idea, because it means more people can play it(including me because I don't have a PS3), it also means that Square Enix don't have to feel like they have to make a game to promote Sony's new console, they're free from Sony loyalty which means they can make all their games multiplatform and get more money'Fixed' this for you

In the end Square Enix's decision has not been motivated by any loyalty or some mission to bring FF to the masses, but by basic economics. They simply cannot continue to spend tens of millions developing a game for a single platform. It may have been possible (with smaller budgets) when the PS2 had a stranglehold on the console market but this business model is not economically feasible in today's markets. I can almost guarantee that we've witnessed the end of the major exclusives with the latest Metal Gear Solid

[Oregano]

Some people are arguing that it will be compromised because the Xbox 360 hasn't ggot anywhere near the PS3's Capabilities, even though it's being made exclusively for the PS3 in Japan and then ported to the 360 which means it will be exactly the same.

They are also some people who are saying that Square Enix betrayed Sony and that the PS3 not going to sell, this is because if you haven't noticed, a lot of PS3 Fanboys owners were saying that the PS3 would win the console war when FFXIII came out(and MGS 4, but that hasn't happened).

@Om: I understood their motives, and I agree with their motives but I was talking about what it was doing for us, and to be honest they were kind of bound to Sony since FF VII because of the way the Playstations dominated and the fact that the Playstation was for a time the only machine powerful enough for what they wanted, but that's changed.

[Calamity]

Indifference.

I really don't care, I have my PS3 and I'm happy with it. What games 360 gets makes no difference to me.

I heard that they're making Versus exclusive for the PS3 instead. Not sure though.

[tape_measure]

As long as it's not an "online only" thing, I'll be happy.

yeah...I'm one of about a handful of 360 owners who aren't wired to the internet, but damn if it isn't more than I want to pay for a new song on Guitar Hero.

[Oregano]

I hope it's not online either because I don't have Live, I may have to get it though.

[Jibar]

I approve.
When it became clear that Metal Gear Solid 4 was staying on the PS3 and wouln't budge, I was really dissapointed. Not that I wouldn't play it, I don't really care for the games myself, but that people were still making these horrible decisions.
The PS2 had the job of being the whore of the last generation, the system that let just about anybody publish stuff on it didn't give a crap because it was making money...
That is a horrible analogy...
Anyway, but now there is no clear main system. In the last generation, you knew exactly what system to buy depending on what kind of games you wanted, but now there is no such clear divide. Well, okay, the Wii is obviously not as hardcore as the other two, but it still gets a lot of recognition. The 360 and PS3 however are pretty much the same. Same kinda market, same kinda capabilities, just one has a ridiculous price tag and a huge ego that seems incapable of shooting down.
MGS4 as an exclusive made no sense, from a gaming or economic perspective. You could have produced a 360 version, no real problem, and sold far more copies, while also allowing tons more people to play it since it's both cheaper and easier to get a 360 than a PS3. As it is, they have effectively crafted an Ego Game. It's the game the PS3 turns to when it feels the need to say "Well obviously I'm better than you all, because I have this." (The 360 and the Wii are just standing outside these two doors, and when the PS3 looks back at them with a smug smile, they open the doors to reveal two huge rooms filled with exclusive games and look at the PS3 without a hint of a smile because there would be no point in gloating. The rooms speak for themselves)
Yes. Anyway.
I see this announcement as just one more step on the road to making sure that all those big, important games like Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid or whatever get the big releases they deserve, instead of being forced to suffer just for the right to be named Exclusive.
Plus it gives me high hopes that Kingdom Hearts 3 will be multiplatform too.

And yes, I am well aware of how bias I sound against the PS3, and that is because I don't like it.

[Oregano]

I'm indifferent to the PS3 but I noticed what you were saying about the exclusives, I noticed it in adverts.

Wii game was:
"only on nintendo Wii"

The PS3 game was:
"EXCLUSIVELY for the PS3."

I'd prefer it if all third party games were multiplatform to be honest.

[Daze]

I approve.
When it became clear that Metal Gear Solid 4 was staying on the PS3 and wouln't budge, I was really dissapointed. Not that I wouldn't play it, I don't really care for the games myself, but that people were still making these horrible decisions.
The PS2 had the job of being the whore of the last generation, the system that let just about anybody publish stuff on it didn't give a crap because it was making money...
That is a horrible analogy...

You're right, it is an absolutely horrible analogy.

The PS2 was somehow not a worthy console because it published (publishes actually, still current) more and many games? Who cares if they let "anyone" publish stuff on it. Their job is to be a console and make money. They have control over their proprietary software, but everything else is up to 3rd party developers. Not their business frankly.
The PS2 did just fine by gamers, with more titles than you could shake a stick at.



The 360 and PS3 however are pretty much the same. Same kinda market, same kinda capabilities, just one has a ridiculous price tag and a huge ego that seems incapable of shooting down.

They do not have the same capabilities. PS3 has Cell and Blu-Ray and free online. How does that matter you ask? Well, to your next point about Metal Gear...



MGS4 as an exclusive made no sense, from a gaming or economic perspective. You could have produced a 360 version, no real problem, and sold far more copies, while also allowing tons more people to play it since it's both cheaper and easier to get a 360 than a PS3. As it is, they have effectively crafted an Ego Game. It's the game the PS3 turns to when it feels the need to say "Well obviously I'm better than you all, because I have this." (The 360 and the Wii are just standing outside these two doors, and when the PS3 looks back at them with a smug smile, they open the doors to reveal two huge rooms filled with exclusive games and look at the PS3 without a hint of a smile because there would be no point in gloating. The rooms speak for themselves)

MGS4 absolutely made sense as an exclusive. Hideo Kojima himself said there was no way this game could run properly on the 360. Something to do with cell shadowing (not sure about that part), but the main reason was blu-ray. He categorically refused to make a game that would require a pallet of standard DVDs to play on the 360, when the game filled an ENTIRE blu-ray disc (that's mega-data right there).

So the PS3 is gloating about an exclusive which could be one of the best games ever made? They're entitled frankly...

But what about Microsoft declaring this generations console war over already?
Or Nintendo releasing every rushed, poorly designed gimmick game they can?
Sony's actually been pretty humble by most standards.
But every console deserves a so-called "ego" game.... which plainly translated is a game in which the console makers and console users can both be proud. e.g. Wii Sports, Halo or MGS4.



I see this announcement as just one more step on the road to making sure that all those big, important games like Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid or whatever get the big releases they deserve, instead of being forced to suffer just for the right to be named Exclusive.
Plus it gives me high hopes that Kingdom Hearts 3 will be multiplatform too.


Kingdom Hearts will most likely be multi-platform... especially since the games themselves aren't all that demanding. The Wii will probably get a copy too.

But in regards to FF, I'm not so sure. I think what people are forgetting is that FFXIII is actually a last gen game. It's development started before MS and Sony released their new consoles and is based on older architecture.

I'm sure it will still look beautiful... as did FFXII, X-2 and X before it did. But that's because of the unique art style, not so much system abilities.
As these "true" next gen games start to leak out, you're gonna see notable difference between systems. In some cases, a PS3 exclusive may be the only possibility.

Hardware is way ahead of software right now, but that wont last forever.

No one can know exactly what the future holds, but as high def takes root and games get larger, PS3 is gonna have a distinct advantage in the market.
Although that's no garuntee of anything... betamax and laserdisc were both "better" than VHS, but we know where that ended up.




And yes, I am well aware of how bias I sound against the PS3, and that is because I don't like it.

And mine may sound biased because I do like it. It's a heckuva system, anyone who's used one can tell you that.

I hope you dont think I'm picking on you, but overall I couldnt diagree more with your assesment.

thanks.. bonza gaming to you and yours.

[BizzaroStormy]

My main gripe about the PS3 when making my decision to buy a next-gen console was the price. It was simply too much. That and the relatively low amount of games made for it compared to the Wii and 360 forced me to put a "do not want" label on it.

Once it came down to Wii vs. 360, I compared price. The Wii won that battle with its $250 price tag. Then came the game selection. Now, I'm the type of gamer that loves violent games. I prefer to have the walls and floors covered in a fresh coat of blood from my enemies rather than jumping on the head of a mutated mushroom only to have "100" pop up into the air for a second or two. This is where the 360 shined with GoW and the blood splattering on the screen when I chainsawed someone to bits.

The promise of MGS4 definatly made me want a PS3 but still did not give me enough reason to fork over $500. The 360 was stable enough excluding the RRoD which I only recieved once due to my mistake of buying a used system.

I realize my argument seems incomplete and off-topic but im tired and dont really care what the denizens of the internet think.

[Daze]

My main gripe about the PS3 when making my decision to buy a next-gen console was the price. It was simply too much. That and the relatively low amount of games made for it compared to the Wii and 360 forced me to put a "do not want" label on it.

Once it came down to Wii vs. 360, I compared price. The Wii won that battle with its $250 price tag. Then came the game selection. Now, I'm the type of gamer that loves violent games. I prefer to have the walls and floors covered in a fresh coat of blood from my enemies rather than jumping on the head of a mutated mushroom only to have "100" pop up into the air for a second or two. This is where the 360 shined with GoW and the blood splattering on the screen when I chainsawed someone to bits.

The promise of MGS4 definatly made me want a PS3 but still did not give me enough reason to fork over $500. The 360 was stable enough excluding the RRoD which I only recieved once due to my mistake of buying a used system.

I realize my argument seems incomplete and off-topic but im tired and dont really care what the denizens of the internet think.

Dont apologize... that argument makes complete sense.

Money is money... therefore I can see the elimination of the PS3 as your next console as totally logical.

Gore is gore (big for me too!)... hence the Wii is out as well. And just to add.. my thing against the Wii is that it's a great system, but only if you're hanging around with other people a lot. It's a weird console to play by yourself, which I often am.

But the RROD thing you mentioned is a key reason I wont back MS. Their ridiculously high failure rate is totally unacceptable in my eyes. As the old adage goes: You get what you pay for.

Now that the 80gb PS3 is going down to $399, I think picking another console is gonna be harder to justify...
especially as Xbox is losing it's exclusives too (bioshock, mass effect most notably), which I believe was the original point of this thread? heh...

but I'm tired too...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. darn mondays :smallmad:

[Tirian]

Kingdom Hearts will most likely be multi-platform... especially since the games themselves aren't all that demanding. The Wii will probably get a copy too.

I haven't seen every Wii game out there, but I sure haven't seen anything that would compare to the cutscenes of even the original KH. And Squenix does not always act rationally when it comes to expanding their market; witness that both KH games have Final Mix versions with English audio, but are not released internationally. I don't know what sort of porting issues are holding them back, but I can imagine that it's nothing compared to working out balancing gamplay with a Wiimote.

In general, the PS3 makes me sad. Sony isn't turning out the RPG and fun cartoony games the way they did for the PS2, and the military simulations really aren't my thing. I imagine I'll buy one someday, but at the moment the prospect of spending $500 to play Oblivion and Tools of Destruction is really not so much. And I'd have to swap cables twice a week to go back to replay my collection of PS2 games, because Sony seem really determined about not leveraging the world's largest collection of proprietary licensed content by putting backwards compatibility in their current-gen console. So we're at an impasse, but I assume that it will be several years before FFXIII or KH3 will force one of us to blink.


Now that the 80gb PS3 is going down to $399, I think picking another console is gonna be harder to justify...

You mean "now that the 40gb PS3 is getting a double-sized hard drive at no additional cost". They are not lowering the price of the $499 machine, they are discontinuing it.

[Daze]

I haven't seen every Wii game out there, but I sure haven't seen anything that would compare to the cutscenes of even the original KH. And Squenix does not always act rationally when it comes to expanding their market; witness that both KH games have Final Mix versions with English audio, but are not released internationally. I don't know what sort of porting issues are holding them back, but I can imagine that it's nothing compared to working out balancing gamplay with a Wiimote.

Now that you mention it, I think you're right about KH3... the cutscenes might be too much for the Wii. Although I dont think poorly balanced wiimote controls are gonna be a problem, so far it hasn't been for a wide majority of poorly designed wii ports. Cheap grabs at cash by developers more often than not.
And as far as what square-enix did with the final mix versions, that boggles my mind too. They also did that with FFX and the dark aeons, ticking off north american fans to no end. Their priorities appear to definitely lie in the east... which is why its so surprising about the jump to the 360 I guess.



In general, the PS3 makes me sad. Sony isn't turning out the RPG and fun cartoony games the way they did for the PS2, and the military simulations really aren't my thing. I imagine I'll buy one someday, but at the moment the prospect of spending $500 to play Oblivion and Tools of Destruction is really not so much. And I'd have to swap cables twice a week to go back to replay my collection of PS2 games, because Sony seem really determined about not leveraging the world's largest collection of proprietary licensed content by putting backwards compatibility in their current-gen console. So we're at an impasse, but I assume that it will be several years before FFXIII or KH3 will force one of us to blink.
I'm not into the war and FPS games so much either. An RPG man through and through.
PS3 has disappointed me in this regard too. They really need more. But I'll stand by my investment and believe them when they say they're working very hard to fix this.

Mass effect 2, Fallout 3, FFXIII and Valkyrie Chronicles are all headed to PS3 this year and next. I'm salivating just thinking about it. I dont care if they're exclusive, I just want them on my beautifully powered system. Littlebigplanet also looks cartoony and promising... and Home...ah...Home sweet Home. That may prove the most addictive of all.

As far as backwards compatibility goes, why do you need to switch wires? My HDMI cable plays PS2 games with no problem, albeit at lower resolution. I made sure to get the 80gb just for not wanting to waste my 50+ collection of Ps2 games. Although the switch to software emulation bugged me a bit, but I can understand that... price on the Ps3 was a major problem for Sony.




You mean "now that the 40gb PS3 is getting a double-sized hard drive at no additional cost". They are not lowering the price of the $499 machine, they are discontinuing it.

Hmmm... I guess that's what I meant! Does that mean there will be no more Ps2 emulation? I wonder if they're gonna rely on the PS store for titles? That might be their planned compromise?

[Tirian]

Hmmm... I guess that's what I meant! Does that mean there will be no more Ps2 emulation? I wonder if they're gonna rely on the PS store for titles? That might be their planned compromise?

At the moment, their position is that they already sell a console that plays PS2 games. I'm sure they're going to throw in the towel someday, but it might take another year or two before their production costs drop to the point that they're aren't losing money on the console sale. Or they face the facts that without BC or a large library of PS3 "family-friendly" games, there is no incentive for me to buy a PS3 instead of a Wii.

[Myatar_Panwar]

I'd prefer it if all third party games were multiplatform to be honest.

Eh, I disagree. Many times a developer will make a game specifically for one system, then maybe make a couple of crappy ports for other systems. I can think of a few games made for the 360 that the wii got shafted on. And if for somereason it was a requirment for all 3rd party dev's to make their games for all of the new systems, then I'm sure that many would either focus all of their advertisment and developing towards one system, or would maybe have a hard time with their limited resources (for new dev companies) and would end up releasing a crappy game for 4 platforms, rather than a good game for one or two. In a perfect world, every game would come out equally as great on every console, but this isnt a perfect world.

Also, Im starting to feel sorry for the PS3 :smallfrown:. For awhile I heard many arguments stating that "You want FPS' get a 360, you want Multiplayer get a Wii, and you want RPG get PS3." If only for FF. But alas, now they have lost this, and I would bet that there are already many excelent RPG games on the 360 which the PS3 doesnt have access to. It might as well be: "You want a couple different sub-par games that your 360 can already probally play, and are willing to dish out the 500 bucks, get PS3."

Edit: Oh, I also heard that the new Spyro and Crash Bandicoot games (which I LOVED on the PS1), are also no longer PS3 exclusive...

Another edit: Read a post talking about the 360's RRoD. I've said this a thousand times on this board, and running the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I'll say it again. RRoD... you get it... you send in you Xbox to Microsoft (dont go crying when you send it to some 3rd party guy)... they pay for everything, you pay nothing.... you get either a new console or a fixed one in one-two weeks. Its really that easy. To boycott a great system (by far the best currently with game selection and live abilities, in my opinion) just because you would have to spend a couple of weeks without a GREAT system is just utterly stupid. Chances are you will get RRoD. Better chances are that you wont get it more than once. Basically, what I'm saying is: If you like the 360's game selection, and the idea of Xbox Live, don't hesitate because of RRoD. Its two weeks MAX of your life where you wont have your console, if at all. And yes, those 2 weeks will hurt, only because you will miss the awesome entertainment the console has spoiled you with.

[Player_Zero]

Don't care. The Final Fantasy franchise has been pretty much done to death so unless this one turns out to be better than FF6, a feat so unlikely that it would mean the end of all things, I'll keep my several hundred pounds which it would otherwise cost for me to play it.

[Jibar]

You're right, it is an absolutely horrible analogy.

The PS2 was somehow not a worthy console because it published (publishes actually, still current) more and many games? Who cares if they let "anyone" publish stuff on it. Their job is to be a console and make money. They have control over their proprietary software, but everything else is up to 3rd party developers. Not their business frankly.
The PS2 did just fine by gamers, with more titles than you could shake a stick at.

It wasn't so much that it published more games than more crappy games.
If you did a ratio of good games to bad games, the PS2 would be right there at the top, highest number of bad games than good games.
(Dreamcast had the best ratio ever. So many good games. So many. I was so sad when it just stopped.)



They do not have the same capabilities. PS3 has Cell and Blu-Ray and free online. How does that matter you ask? Well, to your next point about Metal Gear...

But that's for the developers to worry about. For the general public, we don't really care. They both play games and prettier graphics than the Wii. That's about it to them.
Blu-Ray player, yeah, nice add on. But forcing it on as a necessity instead of an option like the 360 did with HD-DVD just pushed the price up too much and left most people confused and a little pissed off. Especially when it was first released, and Blu-Ray wasn't even guaranteed to take off.


MGS4 absolutely made sense as an exclusive. Hideo Kojima himself said there was no way this game could run properly on the 360. Something to do with cell shadowing (not sure about that part), but the main reason was blu-ray. He categorically refused to make a game that would require a pallet of standard DVDs to play on the 360, when the game filled an ENTIRE blu-ray disc (that's mega-data right there).

One has to wonder how much of that space was wasted...
However, it's not like it's impossible to port it. Give them some extra time, and I know they would come up with a way around it.


So the PS3 is gloating about an exclusive which could be one of the best games ever made? They're entitled frankly...

"Could" being the important word. I've never liked the MGS franchise, so you'll have to excuse me when I say it really, really isn't.


But what about Microsoft declaring this generations console war over already?
Or Nintendo releasing every rushed, poorly designed gimmick game they can?
Sony's actually been pretty humble by most standards.
But every console deserves a so-called "ego" game.... which plainly translated is a game in which the console makers and console users can both be proud. e.g. Wii Sports, Halo or MGS4.

Well, it is. 'Cos, ya know, there is no war this time. They got theirs out first and picked up most the support. The Wii got theirs out next and got a dedicated market. The PS3 came out last and is still trying to build up a fanbase. It was over before it begun really. Anyone who says there is a war hasn't really grasped the current situation.
And hey, let's be fair, the games Nintendo designs tend to be great, and make perfect use of those controls. It's third party publishers who keep releasing the really gimmicky ones. (Apart from Capcom. Oh perfect, perfect Resi 4: Wii Edition)
And I wouldn't really class Halo as something to be proud of. Wii Sports; yeah, sure. Whole new method of controlling games and this game shows it perfectly. Halo? Yeah... no.


Kingdom Hearts will most likely be multi-platform... especially since the games themselves aren't all that demanding. The Wii will probably get a copy too.

Oh dear God I hope so. That series consumed me.


But in regards to FF, I'm not so sure. I think what people are forgetting is that FFXIII is actually a last gen game. It's development started before MS and Sony released their new consoles and is based on older architecture.

Problem here being I don't really care for FF anyway. as far as I'm concerned it's distribution is good because of its place in the industry, not because I really want to play the game. They've been incapable of really making something great since VI for me. (IX was pretty good though.)


I'm sure it will still look beautiful... as did FFXII, X-2 and X before it did. But that's because of the unique art style, not so much system abilities.
As these "true" next gen games start to leak out, you're gonna see notable difference between systems. In some cases, a PS3 exclusive may be the only possibility.

And when that happens, I'm going to still question if it's really necessary, or just stubborn developers.


Hardware is way ahead of software right now, but that wont last forever.

No one can know exactly what the future holds, but as high def takes root and games get larger, PS3 is gonna have a distinct advantage in the market.
Although that's no garuntee of anything... betamax and laserdisc were both "better" than VHS, but we know where that ended up.

There's also the fact that the XBox is going to adapt though. They've announced an aesthetics redesign already. It wouldn't surprise me if at some point they announce hardware changes to the thing.
That won't be for a while though. I mean, like you said, nobodies really using the whole power of the thing anyway.


And mine may sound biased because I do like it. It's a heckuva system, anyone who's used one can tell you that.

Oh don't get me wrong. I've played on the system quite a bit. But the choices available just aren't enough for me to really justify shelling out all that money for.
Until Kingdom Hearts 3 of course. Then I'll just hate Square Enix for forcing me to buy it.


I hope you dont think I'm picking on you, but overall I couldnt diagree more with your assesment.

thanks.. bonza gaming to you and yours.

Aw, don't worry man. It's nice to have a proper debate about these kind of things. None of my friends are really into gaming as much as me, so it's rare that I get a discussion like this.


And Squenix does not always act rationally when it comes to expanding their market; witness that both KH games have Final Mix versions with English audio, but are not released internationally. I don't know what sort of porting issues are holding them back,

Oh, well. Nothing really.
No, there's nothing holding them back. Like, at all. They've said many times that they could release the games overseas with the proper translation. It's just that... they don't.
:smallmad:
Fanbase does not like them for that, let me assure you.

[Mando Knight]

Or Nintendo releasing every rushed, poorly designed gimmick game they can?

That's a low blow, and not entirely true, either. It's every game developer and their mom releasing the poorly designed games for the Wii, but Nintendo and some of the big name developers have actually put out quality games.

Examples from Nintendo:
Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Super Mario Galaxy
Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn
Super Smash Bros. Brawl

Anyway, I don't like it that FF XIII is coming out for the 360, I need to save my money to pay off my college debts, and FF XIII, Halo Wars, and Halo 3 are too tempting... not to mention that I'd be willing to shell out for both the 360/PS3 and the Wii versions of Sonic Unleashed and Star Wars: The Force Unleashed.:smallsigh: If any of y'all would like to give me a couple thousand dollars, I'd be willing to take it... so long as it wasn't illegally acquired in the first place.:smalltongue:

[Oregano]

I think the whole best game ever is too subjective to say for definite.

And to the people saying VI was the last good one, I honestly enjoyed VII and VIII more than VI, in fact I think X was the last good one and X-2 was better than XII and I haven't played XI.

The whole, all third party games should be multiplatform, I meant it ideally, and that all of the consoles would have the same quality of game, in other words, not going to happen.

I haven't noticed any difference between the two systems really, okay the 360 may need multiple discs, boohoo. but the graphics look the same and a lot of the games are shared. My friend who owns both says the 360's better, but I don't know if he just meant the games.

[Myatar_Panwar]

My friend who owns both says the 360's better, but I don't know if he just meant the games.

Should much else really matter in a console? Sure, I suppose you can say "Hey, my PS3 is a super high-powered machine with blah blah blah." But... what does all that power matter when dev's arnt taking proper advantage of it and making games to utilize this power? You play games on a console, not much else.

[Daze]

It wasn't so much that it published more games than more crappy games.
If you did a ratio of good games to bad games, the PS2 would be right there at the top, highest number of bad games than good games.
(Dreamcast had the best ratio ever. So many good games. So many. I was so sad when it just stopped.)

I'm afraid I wouldnt know the proper ratio of bad to good games for any console, but I am inclined to agree that the PS2 had more bad games than anyone else just by virtue of the size of their library.
But in fairness they had a good number of excellent games too. If a game sucked, I didn't buy it generally.

But I know what you mean about Dreamcast. That was a helluva system. A darn shame... in fact a darn shame about Sega in general. They always had good systems and great games. I still miss my Genesis actually... wish I never sold the thing.


Blu-Ray player, yeah, nice add on. But forcing it on as a necessity instead of an option like the 360 did with HD-DVD just pushed the price up too much and left most people confused and a little pissed off. Especially when it was first released, and Blu-Ray wasn't even guaranteed to take off.
I (being a techy geek at times) had confidence in the eventual blu-ray win, so I was glad to be vindicated eventually. Although I can see most people not caring about that.
It did drive price up initially, and that coupled with the nearly 1 1/2 year head start for the XBox didnt bode well for Sony.
But with the recent price drops, new exclusives and revamped online (Home! Sweet Home!) I think things may even out a bit.



One has to wonder how much of that space was wasted...
However, it's not like it's impossible to port it. Give them some extra time, and I know they would come up with a way around it.

Respectfully Jibar, there's no real way to figure out what do about such a gap in storage space. It would take revamped DVD media (which already failed) or some super futuristic compression system that's not even remotely close to existing yet. Current compression methods compromise quality too much, particularly when talking about HD media.

And incidently, I believe Kojima when he says every inch of possible space was used on MGS4. Between the ridiculous amount of cutscenes and copious action/AI gameplay mechanics, 50GB (a dual-layered blu-ray) definitely seemed attainable.




"Could" being the important word. I've never liked the MGS franchise, so you'll have to excuse me when I say it really, really isn't.
Never liked it? Wow... I mean of course we're all entitled to our opinions, but I hope one day you find some enjoyment from the pleasure of sneaking up to an uppity guard and planting a tranq dart in his skull. But maybe that's just me...
MGS is widely considered to be one of gamings "elite" franchises, so it does do PS3 a world of good in many ways, sales figures seem to indicate as such.



Well, it is. 'Cos, ya know, there is no war this time. They got theirs out first and picked up most the support. The Wii got theirs out next and got a dedicated market. The PS3 came out last and is still trying to build up a fanbase. It was over before it begun really. Anyone who says there is a war hasn't really grasped the current situation.
And hey, let's be fair, the games Nintendo designs tend to be great, and make perfect use of those controls. It's third party publishers who keep releasing the really gimmicky ones. (Apart from Capcom. Oh perfect, perfect Resi 4: Wii Edition)
And I wouldn't really class Halo as something to be proud of. Wii Sports; yeah, sure. Whole new method of controlling games and this game shows it perfectly. Halo? Yeah... no.

You're correct when you say that PS3 is behind the 8 ball. 360 had a good sized headstart... which is still evident as game devlopment time is somewhere in the 2 year range, so we'll still see titles being released for the Xbox as publishers have been working for that system pretty much exclusively.
But overall I think exclusivity in gaming is seeing its dying days, with the exception of Nintendo and it's typically good lineup of mario, zelda, etc... but the other 2 are gonna be pretty much sharing all games from this point onward. There's simply too much money to made (or lost).

Oh and you're right about the Wii. The 1st party stuff has its act together, no doubt. It's the rest of the greedy jackals messing it up.
And you'll get no arguments from me about Halo. Over *cough cough* rated. *cough* scuse me... but many people seem to inexplicably think it's the bee's knees.



Oh dear God I hope so. That series consumed me.
KH is seriously some awesome gaming... I've tried and failed to be Sora for Halloween myself... heh.


There's also the fact that the XBox is going to adapt though. They've announced an aesthetics redesign already. It wouldn't surprise me if at some point they announce hardware changes to the thing.
That won't be for a while though. I mean, like you said, nobodies really using the whole power of the thing anyway.

I dont know about major hardware changes to the 360, other than increased hard drive space. I mean think about it... how ticked off would the 80 million (???) or so users of the 360 be when they're told "Um thanks for buying our console, but it's pretty much worthless now because we made a better one that can play games your's cannot. Also, please fork over $300-$400 for the upgrade".

Just like last gen, when PS2 was first, but the Xbox was better hardware-wise... both systems will have to stand pat with their choices. A ten year console cycle seems to be the standard (for now) in the industry and because of development losses, they need every nickle they can squeeze from that time period.

But regardless... 3rd party developers need to catch up to the power of these systems. Problem is, those kind of high end games cost a huge sum of money to make, GTAIV alone was 100 million +.
And that sucks for gamers in a way too... as we helplessly watch EA vampirize the entire industry of its flavor and creativity.




Oh don't get me wrong. I've played on the system quite a bit. But the choices available just aren't enough for me to really justify shelling out all that money for.
Until Kingdom Hearts 3 of course. Then I'll just hate Square Enix for forcing me to buy it.
Well when you give in, I'll send you my PSN ID... we can perhaps bash heartless together :smallamused:




Aw, don't worry man. It's nice to have a proper debate about these kind of things. None of my friends are really into gaming as much as me, so it's rare that I get a discussion like this.

Same here... seems you can't have any kind of discussion about gaming nowadays without emotions running ridiculously high and brain power reduced to insults and vulgarity.
Heh... I must be getting old... darn kids ;)

[Tom_Violence]

I'm still yet to see a compelling argument for the existence of the PS3 (and Metal Gear Solid doesn't count since its about as much fun as a coma :smalltongue:). I've got a Wii, because its just simply the most post-pub fun I've ever discovered. Which leaves the 360. And I keep almost getting one, except everytime I'm about to I find some reason not. Before Mass Effect came out I was planning on getting a 360 pretty much just to play that game, but when that time came around I was hit by financial hardship so missed out. Now I'm still yet to experience Mass Effect, but can't justify buying a 360 since I know a better version of the game exists for the PC and I feel I'd get much more bang for my buck by just upgrading. And now with exclusivity apparently fading in general, it seems to me that the major question regarding game purchases is this: How patient am I?

[Valcrist]

I would like to state, on the original subject of this thread, that I believe releasing Final Fantasy 13 for the 360 is not a bad idea. It is not a matter of loyalty to a system, but loyalty to the gamers who love the series. Square is a company and, like it or not, all companies are in it for the money. Do they take pride in their games, I think so. Yet the idea here is to make the game accessible to as many potential customers as possible.

That being said, I disagree with a number of the things I have seen debated on this thread.

Debate back and forth as much as you wish but everyone here has to admit that the PS3 has the more powerful hardware, plus Blue-ray. A normal DVD has 8.5 GB of storage. A HD-DVD has 30 GB. A Blue-ray disk has 50 GB. No two ways around it.

Firstly, Daze is correct in the fact that MGS4 could not have been released for the 360 because of software problems and the needed storage space. They were required to condense massive amounts of information to store the game on a 50 GB disk.

Secondly, Jibar, whether you like MGS4 or not, you have to admit that the game is incredibly powerful and showcases the strengths of the PS3. Also, whether you think it deserves it or not, it is one of the highest grossing games for the new generation, alongside Halo 3 and GTA4. By the way, I do hate both of those games. That doesn't change the fact that they are top sellers. I also hate Final Fantasy VI, and I really can't understand why anyone likes FF9. Final Fantasy VII, greatest game ever made. Just my opinion.

That's the point. It's all opinion. The only things that are concrete are the power of the systems themselves. You can debate great games, but everyone has a different opinion of which games are great and what makes them so. In the end the Playstation 3 is the more powerful system.

Oh, and one final thing of note to add to this discussion.

Red Ring of Death.

End of debate.

[Prustan]

My first thought to FFXIII coming to 360 was 'WTH!' Then I thought a bit more, and realised that FF is not the PS exclusive series that most think it is. The FF games before FFVII were Nintendo games, though they've been re-released for PS1, 2 and PSP, and many of the later FF games have also been ported to PC.
I'm kind of worried that the hardware will mean a drop in quality for the 360 port, but FFXII will be one more reason for me to get a 360 eventually.

[Mc. Lovin']

It's great! I always wanted a FF, but I have a 360, so I'm pretty pleased

[Kimusabe]

Well I've gotta say, good on the guys over at Square Enix. It's not like Sony rules the world, they can put FF 13 on the 360 if they want, it works better for them.

By the way; Yes, I'm a PS3 Owner, not an Xbox 360 owner. I'm very happy with my PS3, and I don't really care whether any games I have are also on 360, it doesn't make it any worse on ps3.

I'm quite happy that FF 13 is coming out on 360 too in fact. That ay, my friends who have 360's can play it too :smallbiggrin: (Just so long as it still comes out on ps3 also:smalltongue:)

[Dihan]

My brother has a 360, so if I want to get XIII I'm covered.

If it's anything like XII then I won't be getting it, though.

[Azuroth]

I dont know about major hardware changes to the 360, other than increased hard drive space. I mean think about it... how ticked off would the 80 million (???) or so users of the 360

Wii: 32.01 Million consoles sold
X360: 20.58 Million
PS3: 15.32 Million

Not quite 80 (www.vgchartz.com) ;)

[LeonardQuirm]

I was initially a little annoyed when I heard FF XIII was back on the 360, since it meant one of my biggest arguments for getting a PS3 rather than a 360 had gone (this isn't so much a argument with myself as a discussion with a friend who has gone the Xbox route and was always saying, half-in jest, I should get a 360). But then I decided it didn't matter; I already had my PS3, I thought it was fantastic, and I'd almost certainly have got the PS3 regardless.

On the other hand, I'd like to see PS3 do better, preferably with a few more good exclusives, because if it does, than (a) hopefully developers will design for PS3 primarily, with (hopefully still good) ports or adaptations to other consoles - or if for whatever reason they do want to be exclusive (plenty of RPGs seeming to choose so for 360 at the moment), they choose to do so with PS3; and (b) maybe, just maybe, some of the excessively noisy and childish 360 fanboys around the 'net will pipe down. I know Sony has them too, but the Microsoft ones always seem the more vocal.

Anyway, Jibar, why don't you like the PS3? You've explained maybe why you're not a fan of the marketing methods, but I don't think you've actually said anything to explain your apparent dislike of the actual console...

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

It wasn't so much that it published more games than more crappy games.
If you did a ratio of good games to bad games, the PS2 would be right there at the top, highest number of bad games than good games.
(Dreamcast had the best ratio ever. So many good games. So many. I was so sad when it just stopped.)

Dear Jibar, my friend and cat-muffin companion. You are cordially invited to the Stable of Atreyu the Masked Llama. We will stay up all night and play the NES. We will play Taboo, Infiltrator, Friday the 13th, Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Dragon's Lair, Phantom Fighter, Mr. Hu and the Drunken Chu, Werewolf, Low-G-Man, and Ghostbusters.

Then you will renounce your previous statement and hail Nintendo as the ultimate in bad video games. Actually, really, all it will take is Infiltrator. The rest is just to drive home the point.

As for Final Fantasy on the 360, I don't intend to own either system until I can get them for around 50 dollars, so it doesn't personally affect me. However, I am rather shocked to hear it. I hope it comes out on the PS2!

[Azuroth]

Dear Jibar, my friend and cat-muffin companion. You are cordially invited to the Stable of Atreyu the Masked Llama. We will stay up all night and play the NES. We will play Taboo, Infiltrator, Friday the 13th, Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Dragon's Lair, Phantom Fighter, Mr. Hu and the Drunken Chu, Werewolf, Low-G-Man, and Ghostbusters.

Then you will renounce your previous statement and hail Nintendo as the ultimate in bad video games. Actually, really, all it will take is Infiltrator. The rest is just to drive home the point.

As for Final Fantasy on the 360, I don't intend to own either system until I can get them for around 50 dollars, so it doesn't personally affect me. However, I am rather shocked to hear it. I hope it comes out on the PS2!
Dear Masked Llama,
ET: The Extra Terrestrial, Custer's Revenge. Nintendo has nothing to say to Atari.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

Well played. Well played!