Bewildered by Battletech

[Were-Sandwich]

I've been wanting to get into playing BattleTech for ages (there's just something about giant robots blowing the crap out of each other that never fails to get me intrigued), but have always been put off by the bewildering array of different rules sets, sourcebooks and miniatures. So, I've come seeking help.

I want to use the proper metal mechs, not those silly 'clix ones, but which rulebook should I get, and will I need to get sourcebooks to bring me up to date?

[Winterwind]

Not sure whether it's the same in England, but in Germany we have one introductory Classic BattleTech box which contains pretty much all rules one might ever need (plus some additional info on the universe itself). If one intends to use custom 'Mechs or is satisfied with the 3025 'Mechs described in the main box, that's already enough; if you want to know how other, newer official 'Mechs (including those belonging to the Clans) look like, you might want one Technical Readout or another (though this is information that is not all that difficult to find on the Internet, if one is so inclined). There are some additional books that go more into detail with regards to 'Mech customisation and what-not, but the main box is really quite comprehensive in all regards.

Incidentally, I have been thinking for quite a while now about starting a GitP Classic BattleTech group, taking advantage of the existance and free availability of MegaMek (http://megamek.sourceforge.net/idx.php?pg=main), the free-source implementation of Classic BattleTech which is perfectly multiplayer capable. This thread seems like as good a place as any to ask whether there would be enough interest for that?

[Erloas]

The only book you really need to play is "Total Warfare," it has all of the rules to playing the game.

The "Tech Manual" has all of the rules required to build your own custom 'Mechs. There is a breif and incomplete section on building units in Total Warfare, but if you want to build your own then the Tech Manual is what you need. Of course if you just want to use stock/book 'Mechs there are a lot there. I haven't build many custom 'Mechs because as it is there are hundereds of book 'Mechs that cover just about anything you might want to do anyway.

Alternatively you can get Heavy Metal Pro which is a program that can be used to build your own 'Mech and also pull up the information and print the sheets needed to play for every book 'Mech. HMP is currently on version 5, and version 6 should be released at some point, but its been the better part of 3 years since verion 6 has been in the works and I still haven't heard any new updates on when it might be released. *I think HMP is made mostly by a couple people in their free time, and isn't part of Wizkids whom now own the Battletech IP. But HMP is licensed (or however the legal part works) to create HMP specifically for Battletech (as opposed to the army builder software which is generic in principle with unoffical game specific versions)


There are a lot of campaign and specific house books which contain the "book" 'Mechs and a lot of fluff, but they aren't really needed to play the game unless that is the only way you have of getting the specs for 'Mechs. There are a few other pieces of software with book 'Mechs but I don't find any of them as nice as HMP.

There are still a lot of books out for the older editions. The 'Mechs themselves don't change, but their point values do get modified. It is also one reason why there are like 10 versions of the Banshee 'Mech, they tend to upgrade the technology in the storyline with new editions so the old 'Mechs are still good, they are just using older technology.



One other option is the Classic Battletech Introductory Box which has all of the basic rules, a few map sheets, about 20 plastic 'Mechs (somewhat low quality plastic 'Mechs, not the clixs type) and the sheets for those 'Mechs (all tech level 1). Alternatively all but the plastic 'Mechs can be found as a free download on the Classic Battletech (http://www.classicbattletech.com/) website. It is everything you need to play.
The only thing the Intro rules don't cover is the advanced weapons (rotory and ultra ACs, snub/ER/heavy PPCs/lasers, etc.) and non 'Mech types of units (such as Battlearmor, tanks, VTOLs, protomechs and industrial 'Mechs.)
I was a bit disappointed with the quality of the plasic 'Mechs with the Intro Box, but it wasn't too bad. The quality of the metal 'Mechs have been great.


There are probably 300 different types of 'Mechs. You can play a game with anywhere from 2 up to... well as many as you have time to deal with. A game with 2-3 players with 3-5 'Mechs takes quite a while so you don't really need that many to play good games. There are a lot of 'Mechs that aren't available outside of IronWind Metals (company that makes the models), but all of the more common 'Mechs are available from most retailers. (I use theWarStore.com for most of my purchases, but I've found some other good ones for Battletech as well, just don't remember them offhand, I found Amazon.com to be the best place to pick up the books).

After the intro box I just went to CamoSpecs.com (http://www.camospecs.com/) (a semi offical collection of pictures painted mostly by normal players following lore specific color schemes) and randomly looked at pictures and wrote down the 'Mechs I really liked the look of and just purchased them. It doesn't lead to 'Mech groupings that follow the lore of a house most of the time, but it works fine for gameplay, at least at a casual level. If I where playing very competatively I would probably build my forces more exactly, but I find a wide range of 'Mechs forces players to learn the game better.

[DMfromTheAbyss]

I'd second the getting of the starter set. The Tech manual and Total Warfare. I recently (after years of interest) finally got fed up and taught myself how to play... passed a few afternoons with a few friends.

Though if you really want to just see how the game plays the Megamek game is a good way to see how things work. (Also good for when you can't find someone to play against.)

With that said I'd be fairly interested in a megamek meetup (too much alliteration there).

[Were-Sandwich]

I'll check out the Classic Battletech website and put the starter set on my shopping list, then.

[Winterwind]

One other option is the Classic Battletech Introductory Box which has all of the basic rules, a few map sheets, about 20 plastic 'Mechs (somewhat low quality plastic 'Mechs, not the clixs type) and the sheets for those 'Mechs (all tech level 1). Alternatively all but the plastic 'Mechs can be found as a free download on the Classic Battletech (http://www.classicbattletech.com/) website. It is everything you need to play.
The only thing the Intro rules don't cover is the advanced weapons (rotory and ultra ACs, snub/ER/heavy PPCs/lasers, etc.) and non 'Mech types of units (such as Battlearmor, tanks, VTOLs, protomechs and industrial 'Mechs.)
I was a bit disappointed with the quality of the plasic 'Mechs with the Intro Box, but it wasn't too bad. The quality of the metal 'Mechs have been great. Huh, strange. The German introductory box contains the rules for all the advanced weaponry and all of those non-BattleMech unit types as well (except industrial 'Mechs, I think; can't check right now, don't have it with me).


With that said I'd be fairly interested in a megamek meetup (too much alliteration there).Alright, that makes two of us so far. :smallbiggrin:

[TheThan]

The mechwarrior Dark Age (the clix game) actually isn’t that bad. It’s easy to learn with fast and fun game play. The only real drawbacks are that it’s collectible and not customizable, oh and wizkids doesn’t seem to be supporting it as they claim to be. Just stay away from the solaris VII packs, they’re cheesy and introduce a grid system to the game, (which doesn’t work for the clix style). so we use the orginal movement system which is better anyway.


Classic battle tech is a lot more complicated and that complication can really slow down the game (particularly if you’re new, or having a large scale battle). You really have to know the rules (fortunately the intro box comes with a pair of cheat sheets) to make the game go quickly. Don’t get me wrong it’s still a great game but it uses a hex grid and I really despise grids, so that grinds on me personally.

Last time I played my bro karate kicked my panther in the head, (death from above), knocking out all the armor in the head section. But he fell over and broke his own leg, so I just backed up and started firing my PPC into his prone mech until it died. It was quite entertaining.

[Were-Sandwich]

I'm not put off by complexity. In fact its the simplicity of the Clix system that puts me off it, that and the pre-painted, pre-assembled, randomly packaged collectable miniatures.

[tyckspoon]

Don’t get me wrong it’s still a great game but it uses a hex grid and I really despise grids, so that grinds on me personally.


It converts to gridless pretty easily; I recently played a game at a scale of two inches= 1 hex. Makes it easier to play on larger modeled boards like you would use for Warhammer. All you really need are hex bases for helping work out facing changes.

[TheThan]

I'm not put off by complexity. In fact its the simplicity of the Clix system that puts me off it, that and the pre-painted, pre-assembled, randomly packaged collectable miniatures.

its the collectible that gets me the most. I sunk way too much money and time into Magic: The Gathering to want to do that again... ever

In fact, I sort of think they named it "the gathering" because all they do is gather money from people who play it.

[Swordguy]

I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier. Hge CBT fan here - been playing since '86. Welcome aboard!

First things first, here you go: the OFFICIAL New and Returning Players Questions Thread (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,34969.0.html) on ClassicBattletech.com.

The general rule for new players is the following purchase order:

1) Intro Boxed Set (if the minis included were metal, you'd have about $280 worth of included value. The set sells for $40.) My review (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,23438.0.html) of the Intro Boxed Set from just after GenCon last year.

2) After you've bought the Intro Box and decided you like the game, buy
Total Warfare and Technical Readout: 3039. TW is the master rules document, and TRO:3039 consolidates four older and out-of-print TROs into a single document for easy accessability.

3) By the time you get done with those, stuff opens up a lot. Generally, I recommend TRO:3050 (upgrade) at this point, because it details the Clan Invasion and because Clan stuff is discussed in TW. To jump into the "modern" (3073-ish) timeline, pick up Blake Ascending (debuts at GenCon this year and consolidates 2 other books- Dawn of the Jihad and Hot Spots: 3070 - into a single volume) and TRO:3075 (hit the streets about 2 weeks ago).

4) If you wanna hold off on the Clan Stuff, there's a hotly anticipated Clan Introductory Boxed Set that'll debut early next year. And I don't plug it JUST because I helped work on it! With any luck, it'll have minis as well, which would give you about FORTY minis between the two boxes.

Lastly, if you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

[Alex Knight]

For quick campaign-type stuff and to get a feel for the factions in the game, Starter Book: Sword & Dragon deals with two of the most famous BattleMech companies for the Federated Suns and Draconis Combine, gives unique variants of several different 'Mech designs used by these elite pilots, and has a campaign you can run them through.

The next starter book is Starter Book Wolf & Blake, dealing with the reborn Black Widow Company and the Opacus Venatori of the Word of Blake. Much more advanced technology toys (Blue Shield PPC defense, Actuator Enhancement Systems, PPC capacitors...) and the Manai Domini.

Both of them are a *lot* of fun.

[Were-Sandwich]

its the collectible that gets me the most. I sunk way too much money and time into Magic: The Gathering to want to do that again... ever

In fact, I sort of think they named it "the gathering" because all they do is gather money from people who play it.

I can understand selling Magic cards in random boosters. With over 9,000 individual cards, most of which are worth pence and no one would want to buy, boosters are the only practical way of selling them. But it really gets my goat when people do it with minis. There aren't that many minis in a given CMG game range to make it the only practical option, its purely a money-making exercise. Plus, I like building plastic models myself, not having them arrive pre-made. That takes half the fun out of it. Why do those big corporations have to be so...corporate?

[AMJ]

I'm not put off by complexity. In fact its the simplicity of the Clix system that puts me off it, that and the pre-painted, pre-assembled, randomly packaged collectable miniatures.

Actually I am a bit put off by the complexity. I have a load of Mechs (~500, they were on sale... my wife laughed her a** off when she saw me dragging them home). I would like to do large battles with them (~30 mechs a side) however the rules are way too detailed for this to ever work. Is there a version of the rules that will allow games of that size to be played in a couple of hours while still maintaining some of the core qualities (points, heating, armor/guns/speed balance etc)?

The clix system does not exite me at all either.

[RandomLunatic]

There is BattleForce, which is geared towards large-sclae battles.

There is also an optional rule in Miniatures book where, to speed up large battles, you can rule a location destroyed as soon as all armor is stripped off.

[Erloas]

I would like to do large battles with them (~30 mechs a side) however the rules are way too detailed for this to ever work. Is there a version of the rules that will allow games of that size to be played in a couple of hours while still maintaining some of the core qualities (points, heating, armor/guns/speed balance etc)?

I would say its next to impossible to run that big of a game in a few hours. Even running something like MegaMek where the majority of the stuff is handled via computer it would be hard to run in that period of time.
The biggest reason though isn't game mechanics and complexity as much as it is the players.
If you had enough players so one person only had to handle a few 'Mechs each and you did some of the turn concurrently rather then strickly following turns then you could cut off a lot of time.
The biggest timesink in the game is players figuring out their movement to maximise their defense and offense, followed by figuring the fire rolls. The weapon rolling and damage distrubution takes a bit of time, but it can be done fairly quickly once players learn the tables.

I could see problems if you have people doing a lot of destroying buildings, crawling through and over them, and lighting forests on fire in terms of complexity, but most of the rest is simply a matter of learning the game to the point where you don't have to look up tables all the time.

My brother and I have been playing smaller games, and when we first started it took us 5-6 hours to play with 2-3 'Mechs. With some practice we can now run 4-5 'Mechs in 3-4 hours and I know we can get faster too with more practice.


*as a side I've been looking for a lot of less common and not regularly stocked 'Mechs (Ironwind just makes them on an as-ordered basis and no regular merchants stock them) if you might be interested in selling a few if you happen to have them we should talk :)

[TheThan]

I like those Ironwind minis. A friend got some for battle tech (he likes hunchbacks), and I was impressed. Since it’s hard to tell how good a model really is just from a picture on the net I was happy to actually see them in person. The plastic ones that come in the starter box aren’t that great, but they are rather cheep so its nice to know someone makes nice models for the game.

Our LGS sells a few of them, the popular mechs like madcats and stuff sold really fast. But he hasn’t restocked them since.

[Were-Sandwich]

Actually I am a bit put off by the complexity. I have a load of Mechs (~500, they were on sale... my wife laughed her a** off when she saw me dragging them home). I would like to do large battles with them (~30 mechs a side) however the rules are way too detailed for this to ever work. Is there a version of the rules that will allow games of that size to be played in a couple of hours while still maintaining some of the core qualities (points, heating, armor/guns/speed balance etc)?

The clix system does not exite me at all either.

Simple: Write your own rules. Its a lot easier than it looks.

[TheThan]

I thought there was a rulebook for customizing your own mechs anyway.

[Swordguy]

I thought there was a rulebook for customizing your own mechs anyway.

Indeed - it's called TechManual. It came out last GenCon. It's got all the latest and greatest tech. If you grab an older main rulebook (BattleTech Master Rules, BattleTech Compendium) it'll have the construction rules included as well, but not all the tech.

[Erloas]

If you really wanted to play a large game in a reasonable amount of time with not a lot of people you just have to standarize as much as possible. Instead of running each 'Mech as an individually unique 'Mech I would instead standardize a few "classes" of 'Mechs with a limited number of weapon types.

Maybe pick 5 classes, light, medium, heavy short, heavy long, and assault. Equip all of the light 'Mechs the same, say 35tons, 7/11 move, 4 medium lasers. Medium 50tons, 5/8 move, 3 large lasers. Heavy at 65tons, 4/6 move 1 AC/20, 1 Large laser. Heavy long 65ton 4/6 move, 2 PPCs. Assault 90tons, 3/5 move, 1 AC/20 1 PPC.
As an example, not sure how well those actual weapons would work out, or if any of them are over or way under their weight rating.
Then standardize the movement mod, maybe the lights always get +3 running, mediums +2 running, heavys +1 running, and nothing for the assaults, it does way oversimplify the importance of movement but it would speed the game up a fair amount, especially since players wouldn't have to worry about maximising the mod. Make all trees light, and make all pilots the same rating, maybe 4/4.

That way players don't have to go back and look up the exact specs on each 'Mech before they move it, they only have to count out one or two set of ranges for the weapons of each 'Mech. They don't have to worry about rolling for missles or how the clustering works. It also speeds up rolling and allocating damage when you only have a couple weapon damages to worry about. With mostly energy weapons you don't have to keep track of ammo (which is seldom an issue anyway...) and you don't have to worry about ammo explosions. Maybe count any 'Mech that falls and needs an 8 or greater to stand up is considered destroyed (generally the result of a gyro hit or loosing a leg) because they are mostly useless at that point and generally only lead to more fall damage rolling.

[Aravail]

I agree with above poster about Megamech. DL it and try it out before investing in books or minis.