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Arros Winhadren
2008-07-20, 02:14 PM
Now I know that min/maxers despise the MothUH (lol) because it isn't OP, but let's pretend that I'm playing DnD to have fun. Assuming this insanity, and also assuming that my DM lets me play something that gets TK as an ability (meaning I don't have to take any caster classes), what are some good base/prestige classes that would combo into MothUH well? Remember, I'd like to stay away from casters, though bards are ok.

NEO|Phyte
2008-07-20, 03:03 PM
I'm fond of using Monk to get in, then going Reaping Mauler after HotUH, and just focus on grappling people. From 1200 feet away.

nargbop
2008-07-20, 08:41 PM
There are, surprisingly, no humanoid races or templates besides Ghost that give Telekinesis as a special ability. Playing a Ghost can be fun but it's exceptionally limiting; what with the whole bound-to-earth-by-business-unfinished stuff.
Bargain with your DM for a human-with-TK template. Nothing special to it; just TK at will as a spell like ability, or a limited number of times per day, or with four rounds in between successive castings. Probably LA+3 or +4. Say loudly "I'm not going caster! That would be munchkinning! I only want to throw Shurikens with my mind!"
Seriously, Scout is the class to go. You don't need to carry proper weapons, just pummel people with random stuff lying around, and add Skirmish damage to it. The number of pieces of shrapnel or throwing daggers or knives you can lift with telekinesis is similar to the number of arrows a well-optimized arrow-hurler can toss.
I only suggest Scout because I hate playing characters with low numbers of skill points. If you want to play a distance-grappler who, unseen and unknown, pushes the BBEG around, cool. If you want to be the party's prime method of locomotion, cool (get an adamant disk paper thin and fifteen feet across. Levitate it. Stand on it. Fly around). There are all sorts of ways to go.

Arros Winhadren
2008-07-20, 09:14 PM
I've actually been trying to bargain with my DM for a while now for some sort of race with TK as an ability, but he won't take my word that Ghost is the only thing that gets it, so he's looking through every book to find something that does. So when he finally gets done a year from now and agrees that we need to work something out, I'll do that. That disc is pretty cool, but MothUH actually gets a levitate ability that allows him to levitate willing persons and himself through the air. Hurray for party fly speeds! Of course I think it's only 20 ft.

Deth Muncher
2008-07-20, 09:35 PM
I've actually been trying to bargain with my DM for a while now for some sort of race with TK as an ability, but he won't take my word that Ghost is the only thing that gets it, so he's looking through every book to find something that does. So when he finally gets done a year from now and agrees that we need to work something out, I'll do that. That disc is pretty cool, but MothUH actually gets a levitate ability that allows him to levitate willing persons and himself through the air. Hurray for party fly speeds! Of course I think it's only 20 ft.

Use busted logic to your advantage. How, you might ask? Say your party is 6 people. Tell your DM "Well, if the Levitate/Fly ability lets me move the ENTIRE party at 20ft/rnd, then shouldn't I be able to move myself at 120ft/rnd?"

Watch his brain boil! Good clean family fun!

Arros Winhadren
2008-07-22, 12:11 AM
Ok, so what do you guys thing a good level adjustment would be for a human with Telekinesis as a spell-like ability?

Kurald Galain
2008-07-22, 02:40 AM
Ok, so what do you guys thing a good level adjustment would be for a human with Telekinesis as a spell-like ability?

+1 would seem plenty to me.

Note that there's also at least one feat that grants a telekinetic SLA.

Arros Winhadren
2008-07-22, 03:28 AM
What feat is this? Anyways, my DM agreed to a +1 LA, so that's all good. So here's what I'm thinking - Fighter until I get enough ranks in Concentration (my DM let me have Conc as a bonus skill, so I get full ranks in that), then Master of the Unseen Hand. I'm taking Imp Trip and Disarm. Grapple seemed nice, but I think I would rather trip and disarm peeps from afar. So then what after MotUH? Reaping Mauler was suggested, but I don't think that's a viable possibility, and I don't really want to go grapple anyways. Any good suggestions? I would like to focus on staying in the background (as in, a couple hundred feet away), tripping, disarming and attacking people with their own weapons, with a few fling persons in there for fun.

SoD
2008-07-22, 05:13 AM
I actually can see fun in Reaping Mauler (I know you've no'd it), but think: suddenly they can't move. Three rounds later, they die. Fun!

Arros Winhadren
2008-07-22, 01:59 PM
That's true, but I feel that it would be wasted on me since as a person using telekinesis, I really can't see Enlarge Person or other size/strength related bonuses helping me grapple, so I feel that it would be lessened in effectiveness (along with the RM class benefits). Unless I'm totally mistaken, disarm and trip are a little simpler. At least I get to use my charisma bonus. It's also true that I'll be in a good sized party, and three turns after I've grappled someone, they may be dead already.

nargbop
2008-07-22, 04:17 PM
Grapple rules in 3.5 are complicated and icky. Starts with a touch attack.
Now, landing a touch attack using an INVISIBLE hand of force without needing to move yourself... seems very easy to land that. Nigh undodgeable, even. Once the grapple has started, on the other hand, the opponent (victim) can grapple with the force they feel.
I don't think you should be able to apply any Ability modifiers (like STR) to the attack or the grapple checks. Then again, CHA is often a modifier on spell like abilities for monsters. Maybe, maybe... Mind you, we're well beyond the intents of the rules here, grasping at straws for reasonable interpretations.

A cinematic thing : you should be able to grab up dust or water or whatever and make an aura around yourself as visible to the ordinary man as to a caster. Do it with a wood fire's embers and you become awesome. :smallbiggrin: I would carry around a censer just for that.

Arros Winhadren
2008-07-22, 04:37 PM
Yeah, I get charisma bonuses instead of strength, and caster level for TK instead of BAB, so that's a plus, but I don't think Imp Grapple is enough. If only there was more. I could always try and slide Ability Focus (Grapple) past my DM, but that would only be a lousy two.

Arros Winhadren
2008-07-23, 04:27 PM
Well I played my character for the first time last night, and good fun was had. Thanks to my DM not being sure how telekinesis works, and due to me saying I could use Sustained Force/Violent Thrust on anything I liked, I pulled levers, turned dials and set off traps from far away. I even got on my Tower Shield and sledded down a huge stairway while a boulder threatened to crush me Indiana Jones style. My DM also agreed that Sustained Force could be used on up to my caster-level weight in objects (note plural), assuming they were bunched together, so I have my hit die in weapons floating near me now, waiting to be violently thrusted at people. Hurray for TK at will!

So now I have 2 levels of Fighter and one level to be allocated. More fighter seems like a waste, I can't get MotUH yet, and I rather like my full plate and tower shield. Any suggestions?

Collin152
2008-07-23, 06:46 PM
Doesn't the Fetch template give TK?
I don't recall where it is, but it's like some kind of half-ghost...
In that a parent was a ghost. You're still mortal.

For refrence purposes, I see your character is already made.

Arros Winhadren
2008-07-24, 01:20 PM
So I've been thinking about other classes to go into. I didn't want to lose my heavy armor, but it looks like all my best choices involve classes that require light or no armor to use their skills. Anyways, I guess Rogue is looking good. Scout won't work because skirmish requires you move to do damage, and TK is a full action.

Worira
2008-07-24, 03:12 PM
That's true, but I feel that it would be wasted on me since as a person using telekinesis, I really can't see Enlarge Person or other size/strength related bonuses helping me grapple, so I feel that it would be lessened in effectiveness (along with the RM class benefits). Unless I'm totally mistaken, disarm and trip are a little simpler. At least I get to use my charisma bonus. It's also true that I'll be in a good sized party, and three turns after I've grappled someone, they may be dead already.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Collin152
2008-07-24, 07:44 PM
Warblade.
You know you want to.

Arros Winhadren
2008-07-27, 07:13 AM
Oh man, if I'm understanding this right, then Marshal is the class for me. Motivate Charisma? Check. Art of War? Check. +8 to trip and disarm, +19 to grapple by level 6? Check. Throw in a Major Aura (I'm thinking +1 to AC).

I might go Reaping Mauler after all.

nargbop
2008-07-27, 10:56 PM
Marshal is great if you don't mind the paperwork. Taking a level of Monk for the extra feat (Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple) . I wonder if smacking someone with the Violent Thrust ability counts as Unarmed Strike:smallbiggrin:

Arros Winhadren
2008-07-28, 01:00 PM
Oh poo. Turns out Marshals don't work that way. I had thought that getting something like Motivate Strength would add to hit and damage, but it turns out that is not the case. Oh well, I can still get Art of War for the bonus to trip and disarm. I'll just leave the class one level early and get that level of monk.