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View Full Version : 4e: Encounters do not take place in a featureless void



wodan46
2008-07-21, 05:13 PM
Some people seem to have the misperception that encounters take place in a featureless void, wherein characters smack each other with at-wills 90% of the time depleting the tremendous amounts of health that monsters have.

That is not how 4e works. Encounters are about positioning and tactics, about the party working together rather than 1 member showing off. Furthermore, with proper tactics, by the time you are done with your encounter powers, there won't be much of an encounter left for you to mop up with at-wills, except at lower levels, when your at-wills are much closer in damage/effects to encounter powers than at later points anyways.

Myatar_Panwar
2008-07-21, 06:38 PM
Yes, people do seem to think this, which is something I dont really understand. When put into context with 3e and some previous editions, an at-will might as well just be a basic attack, thus congrats, 3e was nothing but at wills.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-07-21, 11:20 PM
Speaking of featureless voids, I've completely fallen in love with my idea to combine an elite pendulum scythes trap with some goblins for an encounter...

Finally, trap mechanics that not only support but actually encourage cinematic scenes.

The New Bruceski
2008-07-22, 12:21 AM
Speaking of featureless voids, I've completely fallen in love with my idea to combine an elite pendulum scythes trap with some goblins for an encounter...

Finally, trap mechanics that not only support but actually encourage cinematic scenes.

Thank Dungeonscape and Rich Burlew (or Jason Bulmahn, but let's credit the Boss here) for that, that's -- as far as I know -- where encounter traps first came up.

RTGoodman
2008-07-22, 12:29 AM
Speaking of featureless voids, I've completely fallen in love with my idea to combine an elite pendulum scythes trap with some goblins for an encounter...

If you're willing to use some Kobolds (or homebrew some Goblins with powers from some Kobolds), there are Kobold Spikers (I think) in Dragon 364 (which you can still get for free) that specialize in pushing people into traps and stuff like that. They're pretty awesome.

Nu
2008-07-22, 12:32 AM
I'm about halfway through my first 4E encounter, and the GM put a lot of difficult terrain, concealment, and cover on the map. It has certainly made things interesting. It was just a balanced party of 5 people vs. 5 goblin minions and 3 non-minion goblins, and so far we've spent 3 dailies and 1 action point out of the whole party to ensure survival. It's been a very difficult and tactical encounter, and we're just at level 1. In particular for me, the fighter, dealing with all the difficult terrain has made me think my moves out carefully, at least a little more so than say, the archery ranger and the wizard.

Even some simple things can change the flow of battle significantly, so I think a GM would be wise to use such things. It doesn't have to be a trap encounter, or an elaborate setup, just some trees and mud will do.

TheDarkOne
2008-07-22, 12:33 AM
Thank Dungeonscape and Rich Burlew (or Jason Bulmahn, but let's credit the Boss here) for that, that's -- as far as I know -- where encounter traps first came up.

People have been doing traps+monsters(or traps that take complicated steps to escape from) for a long time, codifying it isn't really that big of a thing.

icefractal
2008-07-22, 12:33 AM
an at-will might as well just be a basic attack, thus congrats, 3e was nothing but at wills.
While I'm not saying 4E is a featureless void, this isn't really a good comparison. Sure, basic attacks are at-wills. However:
* Many classes (spellcasters) didn't use basic attacks at all.
* Even Fighters had more than two at-wills. A standard Shock Trooper type Fighter could Full Attack, Charge, Trip, and Bull Rush, and use varying amounts of Power Attack with any of those - plus do a number of other things that weren't that effective, but were as good as 4E manuevers like Grab.
* Most importantly, fights lasted a lot less rounds. Doing the same thing for two rounds is less of a grind than doing it for a dozen rounds.


And for that matter - not every 4E fight is going to happen in a dynamic wonderland of spinning blades and lava pits. In the modules so far, a nontrivial number of the fights are in basically standard rooms. And since the dynamic features of a fight often work more in the monsters' favor, players may be inclined to circumvent them when possible - a logical tactic, but one that can make that featureless void scenario more likely.

Antacid
2008-07-22, 02:37 AM
* Even Fighters had more than two at-wills. A standard Shock Trooper type Fighter could Full Attack, Charge, Trip, and Bull Rush, and use varying amounts of Power Attack with any of those - plus do a number of other things that weren't that effective, but were as good as 4E manuevers like Grab.

Trip is the only one you can't do in 4e. Power attack is much less flexible, true, but that's to stop it being combined with attacks that add large hit bonuses for unbalanced amounts of damage.


* Most importantly, fights lasted a lot less rounds. Doing the same thing for two rounds is less of a grind than doing it for a dozen rounds.

Once you get used to the combat system, each round in 4e is much shorter, so in my experience it does cancel out.

Aquillion
2008-07-22, 04:44 AM
Yes, people do seem to think this, which is something I dont really understand. When put into context with 3e and some previous editions, an at-will might as well just be a basic attack, thus congrats, 3e was nothing but at wills.Uh. I think you mean for non-casters there. And non-ToB characters, too.

quotemyname
2008-07-22, 06:14 AM
i am a huge proponent of the 'throwing stuff other than monsters' at characters school of thought. ive taken entirely underpowered encounters and turned them into a huge challange with things like terrain.

i challanged a ballanced group of pc's with some level 1 scorpians and kobold slingers, thanks to the scorpians showing up behind the ranged caster and strikers after the first round of combat while the fighters were trying to squeeze their way to where the kobolds were. by the time they squeezed their way back to where the scorpians were, one of them nearly dragged the wizard down its hole :D. meanwhile, the kobolds continued to pelt the PC's with slings. great fun was had by all!