40k: begginer in need.

[Kane]

I'm starting 40k, and recently got my codex and a Tau megaforce. (Starting as the shooty ones.) Anyway, now that I have it, I'm having a little trouble because the instructions that are included are kind of crappy, and it's hard to identify certain pieces, or upgrades, or stuff. And, to add on top of all that, (plus, of course, first army, no clue how this should normally go,), I don't have a 5th ed rulebook, though a friend is planning to get one, and, if he does, I can borrow it.

I'm basically looking for answers to a few several random questions, and advice on how to configure my army. (I'm primarily going to be fighting SMs and Nids, and maybe orks if my buddies like it enough to start a second army.)

Now, for what I have:

20 firewarriors (two squads.) I was going to give one shas'ui for each, and was considering giving each a markerlight. Naturally, one would be mounted in the Devil fish.

3 Piranhas: I was planning on giving them all fusion blasters and making them tank or carnifex hunters. (Do melta weapons work well against tyranid 'vehicles' too?)

1 Devilfish APC ( Disruption Pod and Decoy Launchers, and maybe targeting array too for the BS bonus?)

3 Stealthsuits (give them all burst cannons, and, of course, marker light drone?)

2 XV8s

1 Hammerhead tank (I'm hoping to magnetize the turret so I can switch it out; I've also read somewhere that it's possible for a properly set-up Ion-head to kill 90% of a ten man SM squad in one turn, and that sounds supremely cool)

1 Crisis Battlesuit Commander (Suggestions? I really don't know all this very well.)



General questions:

Am I supposed to primer and/or paint models [i]before assembling them? How about certain models or parts that I WON'T be able to paint completely if assembled first?

Do melta weapons work well against tyranids such as carni or tyrant??

Do plasma weapons work well against SMs? (I think they do, but the pulse rifles are supposed to be some plasma-variant-tech and the don't seem too great)

Any general suggestions or advice to a total newb?

(Note: I haven't mentioned gundrones because even I can figure out how to assemble those.)

[Eita]

Do you have a 4th Ed. rulebook, or just the Tau codex?

As for your questions...

1: Assemble first, paint later. If you can't get to a piece, odds are you can't see the piece.

2 and 3: Melta and plasma weapons work good against everything because of their high armor penetration value. Melta weapons work better at then plasma weapons if you're going for sheer "BREAK THROUGH THE ARMOR!"

However, be warned when playing against Space Marines. They have AC 3, which means they can take an armor roll against every weapon greater then AP 3.

[Myatar_Panwar]

First, just let me congratulate you on picking Tau, the most awesome army ever. :smallwink:

Now, I haven't played 40k for some time now, thus I shoulden't be awnsering some of the more technical questions. But as for the painting one, I usually assemble, then paint, but I have heard many people say they perfer to paint then assemble. I guess it all just depends on how much time you are willing to devote to each warrior (as I would assume that paint-assemble would take longer than assemble-paint). Also, I dont know if you have any experience with painting, but, depending on your paint sque, I would avoid the lighter primer. Ive found that black primer can be used with just about any sort of line-up, but white can cause some serious problems if you arn't experienced (my first firewarriors suffered greatly from white primer, even though it was a white based sque).

[Eita]

I can't believe my stupidity.

Foul xenos! The holy might of the God-Emperor shall drive you back to whence you came!

[Kane]

Thank you, Myatar Panwar. :smallredface:

Eita: I'm certain that if I get one, my second army will be IG. Certain. I swear by the Emperor! (My third choice, assuming that, in some distant, golden age, I have that much disposable income, would be Grey Knights.)

Okay. I stumbled back to Tau Online, a forum devoted to 40k and Tau (Ya think?), and now that I know what I'm looking for, it helps quite a bit more. (Still trying to find a paint job I like. Need an easy one for my non-existent skills.)

The gun drones that fit into the side-slots of a Piranha, can they detach, and form and independent squadron during a match?
(I've got visions of running three FB piranhas up the side of the table, detaching the gundrones to harry my friends nids, and moving in to off his tyrant/carnifex. The reason I think I can is because I think I've read it somewhere online. Haven't seen it in the codex though, so...)

Pulse carbines are useless, right? (except on gundrones)

I... I do have a 3rd edition rulebook I can look at. Will general rules, and say, weapon types, in it be useful for planning out my army according to the rules?

Am I supposed to make sure that my, say, 1500 point army breaks nicely down into 500, 1000, 1500, and similar increments? Because I truly loathe the prospect of having to get, you know, a different set of units for each....:smalleek:

[Eita]

Ah! Custodians is what you spend disposable income on! Grey Knights are bought with gift-money.

I do not know Tau specifics.

A 3rd Ed. should be good. 4th Ed. was built to be backwards-compatible. Something is undoubtedly going to be lost in translation to 5th Ed. though. So, yes, you should be good for now.

Most units are versatile enough so that you can really just mix-and-match. Then again, I play Space Marines.

[Erloas]

Am I supposed to make sure that my, say, 1500 point army breaks nicely down into 500, 1000, 1500, and similar increments? Because I truly loathe the prospect of having to get, you know, a different set of units for each....:smalleek:

Well generally speaking what you need as a base for say a 1500 point game will still be used in smaller sized games. You aren't going to make a 1500 point list out of taking 3 500 point lists and put them together for instance.

The only time you might have problems is if in your larger games you tend to put way too many points into single units, tanks, etc.
You will however probably change weapon layouts as you change force sizes though, since small games tend to not need the tank busting sorts of weapons or the really high AP weapons.


As for the first set of questions...
Get the rulebook and learn it. Until you know how the game actually works it is very hard to figure out what is needed in any given situation.
For the painting I generally put just about everything together before painting, but there are a few exceptions. (I'm more of a Fantasy player, but I know enough about the system to at least give the general advice above) In fantasy I usually put everything together except shields and I paint models before putting them on the mounts. Basically if something sticks out far enough to block access to the model behind it but is still far enough away to see that area then its best to paint first and glue later. One other important criteria is how easy/pratical it will be to glue on later. Glue on paint tends to stand out, and glue doesn't hold to paint nearly as well as to plastic/metal.

[Kane]

Custodians?:smallconfused:

Okay, thank you. BTW, I might as well ask, but I've got a friend who's starting up SMs same as I. He's currently torn between going Space Wolves or Blood Angels. Any advice I should pass along to your battle brother?

[Eita]

Custodians?:smallconfused:

Okay, thank you. BTW, I might as well ask, but I've got a friend who's starting up SMs same as I. He's currently torn between going Space Wolves or Blood Angels. Any advice I should pass along to your battle brother?

The Chosen of the Emperor. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adeptus_Custodes)

http://fr.games-workshop.com/40k/space_marines/modelisme/custodes/img/art_custodes_marines.jpg

It depends on his preferred play style.

[Kane]

The Chosen of the Emperor. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adeptus_Custodes)


And you can GET these guys? I thought Grey Knights were the 'l33t d00ds' of the game!

And, I'm afraid, gift money goes under disposable income. Plus I would like to flesh out my Tau force, then do some honest work on IG. (Deep down in my soul I'm a tread-head. But aside from that, I just like assembling complex models.) And if I'm satisfied with them TOO, I'll go for GK.

But I've got to get my Tau off the ground first.

Also, For my single stealth suit team, I seem to have lost the drone-control node. (little spherical thingy on the team leader's back.) Any suggestions on how to replace it? I was thinking maybe some putty or something... Or converting a miscellaneous piece to do the job.

[Eita]

You can create them by taking Grey Knights and messing with them. Thus why they cost more, they come out of any box. Also, you need to house-rule them in some.


Depends on the complexity of the piece. If it's just a sphere, get some green-stuff, if it's too detailed for you to make a replica, convert a random piece. If that is not possible, call your nearest GW supplier. They sell random parts.

[AgentPaper]

I'm starting 40k, and recently got my codex and a Tau megaforce. (Starting as the shooty ones.) Anyway, now that I have it, I'm having a little trouble because the instructions that are included are kind of crappy, and it's hard to identify certain pieces, or upgrades, or stuff. And, to add on top of all that, (plus, of course, first army, no clue how this should normally go,), I don't have a 5th ed rulebook, though a friend is planning to get one, and, if he does, I can borrow it.

I'm basically looking for answers to a few several random questions, and advice on how to configure my army. (I'm primarily going to be fighting SMs and Nids, and maybe orks if my buddies like it enough to start a second army.)
I also play tau, and while I can't claim to be any sort of master, I've at least learned enough to give a few basic recommendations.

Now, for what I have:

20 firewarriors (two squads.) I was going to give one shas'ui for each, and was considering giving each a markerlight. Naturally, one would be mounted in the Devil fish.
2 full squads would be 24, actually, 12 being the max in one squad, and, conveniently, the max you can put in a devilfish. Make sure you give them pulse rifles, and not pulse carbines. Carbines are shorter range, though they have better maneuverability. As a bonus, it's possible for them to pin people. However, the extra range of the rifle, as well as the bonus of getting twice the shots in close range (12 inches) makes them usually the better option. They aren't called the strongest basic infantry weapon without reason. Other than that, there's not too much you can do with these basic infantry. A shas'ui and bonding knife can be nice, but aren't always worth the points. I haven't tried a markerlight, and actually don't really use markerlights much at all, but from everything I've heard the shas'ui is one of the worse places to put your markerlight.


3 Piranhas: I was planning on giving them all fusion blasters and making them tank or carnifex hunters. (Do melta weapons work well against tyranid 'vehicles' too?)
Not a bad idea, using them to strike fast and hard at tough targets from close range. Just make absolutely sure you give them targeting arrays. Since they only get one shot with the blaster, you wanna make sure it hits. Having all three piranhas go after a single target each turn will also make it more likely to blow up. The gun drones also help against infantry, pinning those pesky troops they place to guard their valuable vehicles, since the drones can target separately from the piranha's main cannon. Or at least they can if you dis-engage them from the piranha, which you should. 2-man drone teams in the enemy's back lines isn't making his life any easier. Especially when drones actually hit more often than a normal firetrooper.


1 Devilfish APC ( Disruption Pod and Decoy Launchers, and maybe targeting array too for the BS bonus?)
Drop the disruption pod. If the 'fish goes more than 12 inches each turn, it already gets glancing blow only rule. After that, you have 2 options. You can either go the bare minimum route, using the 'fish as a big moving box, or you can turn it into a fire-support platform. Park the 'fish behind a building or other heavy cover, unload the troops into said building, and then fire missiles through the building at whatever you can. If you play it right, the SMS can allow you to keep firing at enemy troops while keeping out of sight of enemy anti-tank, and so effectively untouchable. If you do that, a targeting array is probably worth-while to ensure more hits from the SMS.

The other route is commonly used by people using the Fish of Fury technique. While this is quite useful against space marines and most other armies, anything that moves more than 12 inches a turn to charge something can easily by-pass it. (Fish of Fury is where you park your 'fish about 8 or so inches from an enemy squad, preferably one that likes to get into close combat, and far preferably one that doesn't move too fast. Then, you unload your fire warrior squad of 12 on the opposite side of the fish from the enemy, so that all of them are within 12 inches, but also so they are all behind the devilfish. If done right, you can have all 12 fire warriors fire 2 shots each, as well as the 3 from the burst cannon on the fish and the 2 gun drones, for a grand total of 29 shots in a single turn, out of nowhere. Then, if that enemy tries to counter-attack, it can't close into close combat, because it has to move around the devilfish to get to the firewarriors. with the rules keeping the attackers at least 2 inches from the 'fish at all times, it's mathematically impossible for the enemy close)


3 Stealthsuits (give them all burst cannons, and, of course, marker light drone?)Burst cannons, yes. Marker light, I would have to say no. You're better off with a few gun drones. Actually, you statistically get more firepower out of 3 gun drones than you do from one stealth suit with a burst cannon, for the same price. You also get a fair amount more resilience, as the enemy has to take out each and every gun drone before he starts hitting your suits. (since you can choose casualties) This might make it seem like you should take 6 drones with your 3 suits, but the drones also take up more space, making the team less maneuverable, so how many drones you take depends on how you use the suits. There's no need to take any if you want to be maneuverable, but if you want the suits to jump behind a squad and blast them to smoke stains, then you should think of adding in a few gun drones.


2 XV8s plasma rifle, missile pod, and multitracker. This is the basic, and usually most effective, setup out there. The codename is Fireknife. (yes, there is a code-name for just about every combination possible, if not literally all of them) With 2 long range weapons, you can attack with the pod from 30 inches, the pod and a plasma shot from 24 (optimal range) and if find yourself close in you can unload with the pod and 2 shots from the plasma rifle for some heavy damage at 12 inches. The plasma rifle, at strength 6, can take out light tanks pretty well, and even some heavy tanks, especially from behind. Since the suit can move 12 inches each turn, it's impossible to catch for most troops. As well, since it can move 6 inches before, and then 6 inches after, shooting, it's got a nice Jump-Shoot-Jump strategy, where you jump in front of terrain, shoot at your target, and then jump behind said cover to eliminate return fire. If you find some forest or other sight-blocking terrain, you can also walk into said forest (not taking the usual risk of crashing if you jump), shoot from inside it (as long as you're 6 inches from the edge or closer) and then jump back out to safety.


1 Hammerhead tank (I'm hoping to magnetize the turret so I can switch it out; I've also read somewhere that it's possible for a properly set-up Ion-head to kill 90% of a ten man SM squad in one turn, and that sounds supremely cool)
Magnetizing is nice, especially for battlesuits, but not needed for a hammerhead. As long as you don't glue the weapon onto the turret, it can be taken on or off as needed, magnet-free. If you don't want your weapon to hand like a limp d**k, then stick a bit of paper into the joint, and it should hold pretty well. You can also use tape or clay or tack to hold it in there, without making it irremovable. (wow, that IS a word)


1 Crisis Battlesuit Commander (Suggestions? I really don't know all this very well.)
This guy is mostly opinion, really, but I like to have him tag along with my other suits causing havoc all over. Just try out a few things with him, and see what you like the best. Just don't spend too many points on him. I'd limit to maybe 150 points total.


General questions:

Am I supposed to primer and/or paint models [i]before assembling them? How about certain models or parts that I WON'T be able to paint completely if assembled first?
Just assemble, then paint. The parts you can't get to paint, won't be seen. However, do make sure to paint the model black, with either well-watered black or even better a spray can. This should get into any crevices without much trouble. In the end, that black area right where the firewarrior holds the gun over his chest isn't even really visible with close scrutiny. Painting before assembly is really a pain, and should only be used if you want to make a painting tournament piece, or maybe the centerpiece of well-painted army.


Do melta weapons work well against tyranids such as carni or tyrant??
I've only ever gone against tyranids once, and they cheated and used an apocalypse-only weapon on me, so can't say much here.


Do plasma weapons work well against SMs? (I think they do, but the pulse rifles are supposed to be some plasma-variant-tech and the don't seem too great)
Plasma rifles eat space marines for breakfast, and second breakfast. Pulse rifles don't go through the armor, but the sheer quanitity of shots should make up for it. Burst cannons are good for this as well. Basically anything with at least AP3 will ignore space marine armor, and is good. Multiple shots are also more likely to get through armor.


Any general suggestions or advice to a total newb?

Use your range to your advantage. Use your mobility to use your range to your advantage, and use your mobility to your advantage. Don't get into close combat. Don't leave your vehicles open to fire by enemy tanks. (72" range on the railgun means the enemy tanks should never be in range of you)


(Note: I haven't mentioned gundrones because even I can figure out how to assemble those.)

Don't give up on them! They're awesome! Each drone comes in 5 parts. The body (The big round disk) the antenna (flat pointy thing) the 2 guns (one for each side, but otherwise identical) and the connector. (the round ball with 3 cylinders sticking out)

Take the connector, and stick the middle prong into the small hole in the center of the bottom of the body part. Then, take each gun, and stick the other 2 prongs into each of the corresponding holes of the guns. (each gun should point forwards and be facing up) Then just glue the antenna onto the top of the body. The finished product should look like this (http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/gallery/10/).

[BRC]

You can create them by taking Grey Knights and messing with them. Thus why they cost more, they come out of any box. Also, you need to house-rule them in some.


Depends on the complexity of the piece. If it's just a sphere, get some green-stuff, if it's too detailed for you to make a replica, convert a random piece. If that is not possible, call your nearest GW supplier. They sell random parts.

I believe I saw a quote some where which was to the effect of " A player using an Adeptes Custodes army may, during the deployment phase, start knocking stuff of the table".

Personally If i had the time+disposable income+ w40k playing group of friends, I would make an IG army, preferably and Armoured company.

Then, I would get all the leftover stuff my friends didn't use from their armies for various reasons, and I would make an Ork army. Preferably, with a Mekboy riding an Orkied up Tau tank mounted on top of a pair of Leman-russ treads.

@V I didn't mention the Fish of Fury

[Eita]

BRC, about the Fish of Fury, you're rather screwed, if, like me, they give the Sergeant a power weapon or power fist. It'll eat your vehicle for breakfast, second breakfast, and first lunch. They don't have it for tea because they're too busy eating your Firewarriors for that.

Also, you're also screwed if they're Assault Marines, who am pretty sure can get within two inches of a Piranha so long as they don't end the turn there.

[Eita]

I believe I saw a quote some where which was to the effect of " A player using an Adeptes Custodes army may, during the deployment phase, start knocking stuff of the table".

Personally If i had the time+disposable income+ w40k playing group of friends, I would make an IG army, preferably and Armoured company.

Then, I would get all the leftover stuff my friends didn't use from their armies for various reasons, and I would make an Ork army. Preferably, with a Mekboy riding an Orkied up Tau tank mounted on top of a pair of Leman-russ treads.

Indeed. I have a version that I like far more though. "A player using an Adeptus Custodes army, may choose to use any and all equipment from any and all versions." Virus bombs FTW.

[Dervag]

Well generally speaking what you need as a base for say a 1500 point game will still be used in smaller sized games. You aren't going to make a 1500 point list out of taking 3 500 point lists and put them together for instance.However, you could probably make a 1500 point army, part of which would make an effective 1000 or 500 point army. Right?

[Drglenn]

See this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82875) for my advice to another starting tau player and a sample army list that i thought up

[Kane]

See this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82875) for my advice to another starting tau player and a sample army list that i thought up

Problem is, I have what I have, and I can't afford to run out and get ethereals and Broadsides at the moment. From the reading I've done, actually, I'm liking the sound of getting a Skyray and a few sniper-teams to round up my Heavy Support slots, but, no money, plus I have no reason to expand when I haven't even played with what I have.

I'm going to try and make up what I have into a reasonable list, (eventually) 2000 pts. But as it is, I'm mostly asking for beginner advice rather than an army list to build on. (I already have the units I'm going to start with.) Things like what Crisis config is best or whether to use the Cyclic Ion Blaster or the Frag projector. (Oh, and from what I read, you're allowed to take the CIB OR the Frag projector. Not both, like you said on your list. Don't trust me, though, not only do I have a poor memory, but I = n00b.)

Got the 3rd Ed. rulebook from a friend, and am going to spend some time looking over it. That said, some questions, since I only know rumors about 5th Ed.

Is FoF dead? I heard that something to do with skimmers now made it useless. In the same vein, can skimmers block line of sight or advance?

What is the Feel No Pain rule? I'm trying to figure out what the Stim. Injector bit does, but I couldn't find that in the 3rd ed rulebook...

And, since my friends are nids and SMs, I was thinking that this
Non-named Configuration (Burst Cannon, Fusion Blaster Multi-tracker)

Pros - Good rate of fire. Versatile Close range ability. Good for dealing with Monstrous Creatures, Elite Troops, Swarms and Vehicles. VERY cheap as crisis suits go.

Cons - No long range abilities. would be decent because they'd be rushing into close range anyway. (I was planning on having my Elites filled by my stealthsuit team, and my two XV8s acting as two independent, one-tau 'squads'.


Also, I have twenty FWs because, I think, it's for two squads of ten, plus two gundrones.

[Drglenn]

Special Issue Items: Items labeled as 'Special Issue' are unique systems... Only one of each system may be taken per army

Here is a sample 1000pt list using the models you have:
HQ
Commander Shas'o (75)- Cyclic Ion Blaster (15), Airbrushing Fragmentation Projector (20), Multi-Tracker (5), Hard-Wired Drone Controller (0), 2 Gun Drones (10)
135pts

Elites
Crisis Team- 2 Shas'ui (50)- Both have Plasma Rifles (40), Missile Pods (24) and Multi-Trackers (10), Team Leader (5) with Hard-Wired Drone Controller (0) and 2 Gun Drones (20)
139pts

Stealth Team- 3 Shas'ui- 90pts

Troops
Fire Warrior Team- 12 Shas'la (120)- Devilfish Transport (80)
200pts

Fire Warrior Team- 8 Shas'la- 80pts

Fast Attack
Piranha Light Skimmer (60)- Fusion Blaster (5)
65pts

Piranha Light Skimmer (60)- Fusion Blaster (5)
65pts

Piranha Light Skimmer (60)- Fusion Blaster (5)
65pts

Heavy Support
Hammerhead Gunship (90)- Railgun (50), Burst Cannons (10)
140pts

Army Total: 999pts

Quick Rundown
Commander- Massacres Infantry
Crisis Team- Plasma Rifle and Missile Pod to give a relatively high number of shots at highish strength
Stealth Team- Burst Cannons mow down infantry
Big Fire Warrior Team- Fill the Devilfish
Small Fire Warrior team- for the other compulsary troop choice
Piranhas- 3 separate vehicles so they can target different vehicles and so that is one if incapacitated, the others don't have to abandon it
Hammerhead- Railgun so that you can take on tanks or infantry, burst cannons as the best weapons that you can still fire on the move (when you move up to 6' with a tank you can fire one STR 7+ weapon and any STR 6 or lower weapons

'Feel No Pain' gives you an extra 4+ save AFTER you fail an armor or invulnerable save except against instant kill weapons or power weapons in close combat. e.g. a space marine shoots a tau commander with a bolter, the space marine hits, wounds and the commander fails his armor save, if the commander has a stimulant injector then he'll get another 4+ save against that wound, which works like an invunerable save (i.e. low AP weapons don't go through it)

Also Skimmers can be seen through for shooting but not for movement, LOS now is using "model's eye" view (the same as Warhammer Fantasy has always been) you go down to the height of the model and if you can see the target the model can, alternatively you can use a laser pen

[Kane]

Here is a sample 1000pt list using the models you have:
HQ
Commander Shas'o (75)- Cyclic Ion Blaster (15), Airbrushing Fragmentation Projector (20), Multi-Tracker (5), Hard-Wired Drone Controller (0), 2 Gun Drones (10)
135pts

Elites
Crisis Team- 2 Shas'ui (50)- Both have Plasma Rifles (40), Missile Pods (24) and Multi-Trackers (10), Team Leader (5) with Hard-Wired Drone Controller (0) and 2 Gun Drones (20)
139pts

Stealth Team- 3 Shas'ui- 90pts

Troops
Fire Warrior Team- 12 Shas'la (120)- Devilfish Transport (80)
200pts

Fire Warrior Team- 8 Shas'la- 80pts

Fast Attack
Piranha Light Skimmer (60)- Fusion Blaster (5)
65pts

Piranha Light Skimmer (60)- Fusion Blaster (5)
65pts

Piranha Light Skimmer (60)- Fusion Blaster (5)
65pts

Heavy Support
Hammerhead Gunship (90)- Railgun (50), Burst Cannons (10)
140pts

Army Total: 999pts

Quick Rundown
Commander- Massacres Infantry
Crisis Team- Plasma Rifle and Missile Pod to give a relatively high number of shots at highish strength
Stealth Team- Burst Cannons mow down infantry
Big Fire Warrior Team- Fill the Devilfish
Small Fire Warrior team- for the other compulsary troop choice
Piranhas- 3 separate vehicles so they can target different vehicles and so that is one if incapacitated, the others don't have to abandon it
Hammerhead- Railgun so that you can take on tanks or infantry, burst cannons as the best weapons that you can still fire on the move (when you move up to 6' with a tank you can fire one STR 7+ weapon and any STR 6 or lower weapons

'Feel No Pain' gives you an extra 4+ save AFTER you fail an armor or invulnerable save except against instant kill weapons or power weapons in close combat. e.g. a space marine shoots a tau commander with a bolter, the space marine hits, wounds and the commander fails his armor save, if the commander has a stimulant injector then he'll get another 4+ save against that wound, which works like an invunerable save (i.e. low AP weapons don't go through it)

Also Skimmers can be seen through for shooting but not for movement, LOS now is using "model's eye" view (the same as Warhammer Fantasy has always been) you go down to the height of the model and if you can see the target the model can, alternatively you can use a laser pen

IloveyouIloveyouIlovey- Yah. Thank you!

But, like always, a few questions, as I test the boundaries of my newfound knowledge.

Could the two Crisis- (Crisises? Crisi? Bah!) XV8s be changed to Burstcannon (8, 16 for the pair) Fusion Blaster (12, 24 for the pair,) and multitracker (5, 10 ftp.) This would come out to 100 for both of them, and allow me to add targeting arrays to the Railhead and Piranhas, thereby making them more likely to hit.
Would this be worth it? Also, would it be practical/feasible to change the Commanders GDs for a stim injector? He'd get an extra roll on most wounds, if I get you right, and it'd be for the same price.

Maybe I should drop one piranha from the list so I can get DLs and targeting arrays for my heavy hitters, and a marker light for my stealth team? (I want to try using one at least once, the seem to be renown for it, and I'd like to see how they feel to me in combat.)

[Drglenn]

I don't like putting burst cannons and fusion guns on crisis suits, they're too short ranged, as a tau player you want to be avoiding combat like the plague especially as you don't have any kroot to back your tau up, having burst cannons and fusion guns mean that you have to get relatively close to the enemy to be able to fire them. This leaves the enemy closer to you and concievably able to get into combat. Also you have plenty of anti-tank capability from the piranhas and hammerhead and the plasma guns and missile pods are good at taking down big creatures

The stimulant injector would probably be a good idea, take it instead of one of the gun drones (they should be 20 for the pair, not 10, i pressed the wrong button)

Also Hammerheads come with targeting array (that's why their BS is 3(4), the 4 is for the targeting array) and there is no point giving them to the devilfish or piranhas as they only have one gun each (the attached drones don't get the benefit of the array) and decoy launchers only help for glancing hits so they're not really that useful. Also it takes up a system slot on battlesuits.

You could drop a Piranha to give your fire warrior squads shas'la team leaders with markerlights, then give the commander the stimulant injector and the Hammerhead a Multi-tracker (meaning it can move its full distance and still shoot) and Target Lock (meaning the burst cannons can fire at a different target to the railgun).

[Kane]

I don't like putting burst cannons and fusion guns on crisis suits, they're too short ranged, as a tau player you want to be avoiding combat like the plague especially as you don't have any kroot to back your tau up, having burst cannons and fusion guns mean that you have to get relatively close to the enemy to be able to fire them. This leaves the enemy closer to you and concievably able to get into combat. Also you have plenty of anti-tank capability from the piranhas and hammerhead and the plasma guns and missile pods are good at taking down big creatures

The stimulant injector would probably be a good idea, take it instead of one of the gun drones (they should be 20 for the pair, not 10, i pressed the wrong button)

Also Hammerheads come with targeting array (that's why their BS is 3(4), the 4 is for the targeting array) and there is no point giving them to the devilfish or piranhas as they only have one gun each (the attached drones don't get the benefit of the array) and decoy launchers only help for glancing hits so they're not really that useful. Also it takes up a system slot on battlesuits.

You could drop a Piranha to give your fire warrior squads shas'la team leaders with markerlights, then give the commander the stimulant injector and the Hammerhead a Multi-tracker (meaning it can move its full distance and still shoot) and Target Lock (meaning the burst cannons can fire at a different target to the railgun).

Okay, after some deliberation, I'm convinced. As for the ML, why not add it to the Stealth suits? (That's where it usually seems to be.)

My mistake on the hammerhead, I'd read that, just forgotten it.

As for the DL, half my sources are telling me to take it, I HAVE to take it, it's mandatory for all Tau vehicles, it'll save their lives, and I'm getting a little confused.

Okay so if I drop one piranha, I can get targeting array on the other two. (It seems that with one big gun, the targeting array would be more vital. After all, move into 12in. range, fire at a carni, miss, and have the carni move into melee in the next turn... *shudders* The claws, man, the claws!), upgrade a FW in the large squad to Shas'ui, multi-tracker for the HH (25/66 pts by now), 10 for a stealth suit shas'vre, and another ten for a ML. (45/66)

Not certain what should be done with the last 26 pts, (if this is even reasonable. Maybe get the DL for the Piranhas, (another 10) as they ought to be moving fast enough that, (I think) they can only get glancing hits, and they could use it?

Also, can, instead of taking things on the XV8s, can they be taken as wargear? Hard-wired, and what not? I then wouldn't have to glue something physically on, letting me change it later if I want to.

Edit: And on a completely unrelated note, Whee! I figured out why my Avatar wasn't working!

[AgentPaper]

HQ
Commander Shas'o (75)- Plasma Rifle (20), Missile Pod (12), Multi-Tracker (5), Stimulant Injectors (10), Hard-Wired Drone Controller (0), 2 Gun Drones (20)
132pts

Elites
Crisis Team- 2 Shas'ui (50)- Both have Plasma Rifles (40), Missile Pods (24) and Multi-Trackers (10), Team Leader (5) with Hard-Wired Drone Controller (0) and 2 Gun Drones (20)
149pts

Stealth Team- 3 Shas'ui (90)
90pts

Troops
Fire Warrior Team- 12 Shas'la (120)- Devilfish Transport (80)
200pts

Fire Warrior Team- 8 Shas'la (80)
80pts

Fast Attack
Piranha Light Skimmer (60)- Fusion Blaster (5), Targeting Array (10), Decoy Launchers (5)
80pts

Piranha Light Skimmer (60)- Fusion Blaster (5), Targeting Array (10), Decoy Launchers (5)
80pts

Heavy Support
Hammerhead Gunship (90)- Railgun (50), Smart Missile System (20), Multi-Tracker (10), Decoy Launchers (5)
175pts

Total: 996pts

SMS and Multi-tracker are just about necessary on a Hammerhead. Multi-T allows you to move the full 12" and still fire, and the SMS, as well as more shots and range than the burst cannon, doesn't need line of sight to fire. Decoy launchers are not absolutely necessary, but at 5 points each, they are statistically worth their points cost on anything moving fast, so you might as well take them if you can afford it. Also, the Cyclic Ion Blaster and Air Fragmentation Launcher sound all nice and all, but the only real thing they're useful for is tearing through IG and Orks, not to mention their short range. Giving the commander the same weapons loadout as the other 2 'suits lets him move around with them and be just as effective as out of the group.

Other than that, Since this is a pretty mobile army, with almost everything moving at least 12" a turn, I would recommend loading that 8 man team with pulse carbines. Then, use them as a mobile annoyance force, pinning down enemies that could cause problems. Their small squad size means that either the opponent will ignore them, letting you pin as you wish, or he will attack, thus sending a portion of his forces to deal with the cheap unit. As well, they make perfect bait in a trap, running and shooting, and when the enemy is in the right spot, you leap on them with other forces, pinning them first with the carbines if you can for even more hurt. Piss off a tyrant like this, lead it away from it's buddies, and then swoop in with your piranhas at the last second. Against anything that can be pinned, this is even better. Between the 8 carbine shots, and the 4 gun drones, it's very likely whatever you shot at isn't going to be moving.

[Drglenn]

Okay, after some deliberation, I'm convinced. As for the ML, why not add it to the Stealth suits? (That's where it usually seems to be.)

Not certain what should be done with the last 26 pts, (if this is even reasonable. Maybe get the DL for the Piranhas, (another 10) as they ought to be moving fast enough that, (I think) they can only get glancing hits, and they could use it?

Also, can, instead of taking things on the XV8s, can they be taken as wargear? Hard-wired, and what not? I then wouldn't have to glue something physically on, letting me change it later if I want to.

I didn't realize until just now that stealth teams could have markerlights other than marker drones, I guess that comes from not actually having played Tau.

Piranhas, as they are fast skimmers, if they move more than 6' in the movement phase they only receive glancing hits (i don't know how this works with AP1 weapons or other auto-penetrating weapons, could someone clear this up for me please?) so decoy launchers would probably be a good idea.

Only Crisis Team leaders and Shas'vre or Commanders can take hard-wired systems as they are the only ones who have access to wargear. The others just have to make do with their hard points.

[Kane]

I didn't realize until just now that stealth teams could have markerlights other than marker drones, I guess that comes from not actually having played Tau.

Piranhas, as they are fast skimmers, if they move more than 6' in the movement phase they only receive glancing hits (i don't know how this works with AP1 weapons or other auto-penetrating weapons, could someone clear this up for me please?) so decoy launchers would probably be a good idea.

Only Crisis Team leaders and Shas'vre or Commanders can take hard-wired systems as they are the only ones who have access to wargear. The others just have to make do with their hard points.

Okay, thank you. As for my ML, I only HAVE and ML drone, so it seemed sensible to add it to the stealth team, at the cost of upping one S suit to a shas'vre, and then adding the ML (20pts).

Better yet, on the list Agent Paper just posted, (Thank you! Thank you! I am eternally in your debt! Though, uh, I think Drglenn here might have priority.) If I remove the team leader/two gundrones from the battlesuits, (I was planning on having each of them as an independent 'squad' anyway. No real benefit, just cheaper, lets me move them however I want, and I fill up my Elites slots) Anyway, if I remove the two gundrones and the team leader upgrade, that's twenty five points, twenty of which can get me a ML.
With that, I have 9 pts left over. I was considering that those nine points would be useful to shift the Shas'o's multi-tracker into wargear, and then add a third weapon, either a burstcannon or a flamer (since that's all I could afford.) Or, I realized, I could T-L his missile pod.

[AgentPaper]

With 9 points, you have exactly enough to get a flamer and a target lock. You still can only fire 2 of each weapon, of course, but this makes your commander better in close range. Since suits, and especially commanders, are actually not bad in close combat (just horrible compared to out of it, and horrible compared to close combat specialists) you can afford to run up next to their ranged types and unload with 2 plasma shots and the flamer.

Teaming the 2 suits up is mainly so that, with the 2 gun drones, the team effectively has 2 "free wounds" that just take down the gun drones, and not the all-important suits. Since you're removing the drones anyways, no problem.

[Kane]

HQ
Commander Shas'o (75)- Plasma Rifle (20), Missile Pod (12), Flamer (4), Hard-wired Target Lock, (5) Hardwired Multi-Tracker (5), Stimulant Injectors (10), Hard-Wired Drone Controller (0), 2 Gun Drones (20)
132pts

Elites
Crisis Team- 2 Shas'ui (50)- Both have Plasma Rifles (40), Missile Pods (24) and Multi-Trackers (10)
124pts

Stealth Team- 2 Shas'ui (60) 1 Shas'vre (40) + Marker light (10)
100pts

Troops
Fire Warrior Team- 12 Shas'la (120)- Devilfish Transport (80)
200pts

Fire Warrior Team- 8 Shas'la (80)
80pts

Fast Attack
Piranha Light Skimmer (60)- Fusion Blaster (5), Targeting Array (10), Decoy Launchers (5)
80pts

Piranha Light Skimmer (60)- Fusion Blaster (5), Targeting Array (10), Decoy Launchers (5)
80pts

Heavy Support
Hammerhead Gunship (90)- Railgun (50), Smart Missile System (20), Multi-Tracker (10), Decoy Launchers (5)
175pts

Total: 1000pts

Is this right? Any blatant errors that need correcting? Any improvements to be made?

[Drglenn]

Marker Drones are 30 points, what you want to put on the stealth suit shas'vre is a normal markerlight. The Drones are 30 points because is gives an extra model to the unit, it means that noone else has to use up their shooting to shoot the markerlight and they can be fired before the unit fires due having a networked markerlight instead of a normal one

[Kane]

Whoa.... That clears up some stuff. So the fan/ray shapped thingy in my Stealth Suit sprue that is pictured glued to a base is, actually, the markerlight? Oh....... Right, then.
So regular markerlight instead of the drone. I'll edit it.

[Drglenn]

the thing that's not a stealth suit on this page (http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/gallery/4/) is a marker drone, these (http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/gallery/10/) are gun drones and the thing with the shas'ui on this page (http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/gallery/9/#pathshasui) is a shield drone

[Kane]

Right. I already knew that, I didn't know what a regular marker light was. I thought they were talking about ml Drones, and that that wierd bit in my sprue was for the stealthsuits some how....

It all makes sense now.

[Drglenn]

I think the extra bit is just a bit of random scenery. You could butcher the marker drone to attach the markerlight to the suit you're going to designate to be the shas'ui (you'd want to cut off the tab that connects it to the drone, then file it down so you've got a flatish top edge, then attach it to the bottom of the burst cannon, then maybe add some wire round the back to connect it to the suit)

[Kane]

I'm pretty sure it's a regular markerlight. (Tried finding one in pictures but couldn't. However, it makes sense, and I think I've seen it before.


As yet another beginner question, how do I go about basing my models? Do I paint the model, glue it to the base, paint the base, PVA glue, and flock? or what?

[Drglenn]

If you're using a black undercoat just add the flock (after attaching the model and PVA glue of course). If you're using a white undercoat paint the bases black first. Flocked bases often look best with black edges.

Also it's often a good idea to paint the model whilst its attached to the base, that gives you something to hold whilst painting. Paint the arms seperately on the fire warriors though as the guns will often be across the chests of the models (leave them on the sprue, paint them and then attach them and go over the bits where the sprue joined to the model)

[Kane]

If you're using a black undercoat just add the flock (after attaching the model and PVA glue of course). If you're using a white undercoat paint the bases black first. Flocked bases often look best with black edges.

Also it's often a good idea to paint the model whilst its attached to the base, that gives you something to hold whilst painting. Paint the arms seperately on the fire warriors though as the guns will often be across the chests of the models (leave them on the sprue, paint them and then attach them and go over the bits where the sprue joined to the model)

So, if I'm not mistaken, you say, Glue model together, glue to base, paint model, paint base, PVA glue, flock/sand?

[Drglenn]

Ja, and if you're using sand there should be an additional step: paint sand. Sand needs to be painted if you want it to look more natural. Give it a brown ink wash then, if you want it to look lighter, drybrush it with bleached bone then skull white

[Kane]

Ja, and if you're using sand there should be an additional step: paint sand. Sand needs to be painted if you want it to look more natural. Give it a brown ink wash then, if you want it to look lighter, drybrush it with bleached bone then skull white

LOL

Okay. I was using it as an example; I'm probably going to go foresty or swampy color scheme, I don't like the generic Tau.

Okay, Thanks. I glued a bunch of FWs to their bases today. (Past hour or two. I like the GW glue, it dries real quick.)

Speaking of which, how do you keep smearing glue from melting the mold detail? Do you suggest a paintbrush, or what?

[Zorg]

I only use GW's super glue, for plastic glue I use Humbrol Poly Cement - it has an almost syringe like tip for easier, more precise application. If you get seepage quickly wash with water to remove the plastic glue. It's basically a form of solvent and, as you seem to have learn, will melt the crap outta stuff.

I wouldn't use a brush as the glue is pretty hard on the bristles unless it's specifically designed for it, and it'll need to be washed constantly.

For paint/assemble vs assemble/paint it really depends on the figure / vehicle for me. I spray the undercoatcoat on the sprues (my army colour is black fortunately) when dealing with mass quantaties - thirty marines and five rhino chassis for instance. I have to be sure to shave off the paint on any joints for propper adhesion, however.

Normally I dry fit a figure together to look for any odd nooks and crannies that might prove a hinderance and decide then. Heavy weapon guys with ammo feeds and vehicle sponsons spring to mind. For Tau I can think maybe some of the vehicles (don't stick them to the flight bases!) like the Pirhanna it might be easier to paint the crew seperate from the body, but I think most should be ok.

Vehicles I paint in sections - especially if the inside is to be detailed. Rhinos I spray all black, paint up the interior, stick on the top plate, then do the outside after. My Eldar Warwalker is in four peices, Landspeeders have their crew painted before sticking in, my Warhound is in a dozen different bits etc. Predators and the like with no interior detail just get done as is.

And yes, painting sand is necessary, like how you can pick rocks out of the garden, but then you have to paint them so they look like "real" rocks.

Biggest painting advice I can give is to keep practicing and don't worry too much - I've still got my first ever miniature I painted, and plenty of poorly painted tanks (my cardboard whirlwind only recently departed after 15 years of loyal service). I find it good to be able to look back and see how my skills and style have changed and progressed.

[KilltheToy]

While we're at it, I'm looking at getting a Chaos army, probably Word Bearers. If anybody has any tips, such as how much a 1500 point force would cost or what I should do to make a Dark Apostle, please post it.

[Kane]

I don't know much about the various Chaos factions, but the Chaos Marine Strikeforce (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1310001&prodId=prod1430006) is supposed to be 1500 points. (Though, from my readings, landraiders kind of suck, so that might just be about 1250)

[Drglenn]

While we're at it, I'm looking at getting a Chaos army, probably Word Bearers. If anybody has any tips, such as how much a 1500 point force would cost or what I should do to make a Dark Apostle, please post it.
I would help but i don't have the new(ish) chaos codex, I only have the old one. You might want to base the dark apostle on a space marine chaplain as that is what they used to be, just remove any blatant imperial symbols and replace them with chaos ones. Do World Bearers still get extra troop choices? If so take loads of chaos marine squads or daemons. Also land raiders are good but they cost a lot of points for something that can possibly be destroyed in one hit. On the other hand, they tend to draw a lot of fire from your enemies, leaving the rest of your army intact.

Glue-wise i would suggest only using a tiny amount, a blob of roughly 1mm (i don't measure it exactly) should be enough for most of the parts on a fire warrior. Go for an area of glue roughly 1/3-1/2 the area of the joint you're gluing to make up for the fact that the glue spreads. If you're using super glue (which you should only ever use for metal models) one light coat using the brush attached to the lid on the joint should hold fine (super glue actually holds better if used in smaller amounts as that way its holding model-glue-model rather than model-glue-more glue-model)

[hamishspence]

Since 5th ed, land raiders have improved some in utility. Still overshadowed by monoliths.

late 4th ed chaos codex genericises the daemons and greater daemons (all the same type) but allows cult units as troop choices, as well as allowing you to add icons to normal marines, termies, raptors, havocs, chosen, bikers, to give them Marks (marked, non-cult units are not fearless and lose marks if icon bearers are killed.)

Since possessed, havocs, cult units, CSMs, and raptors are all max size 20, you can bulk up on them, instead of taking marine units. Also, summoned daemon units, one of the signature traits of the Word Bearers, don't count toward force organisation choices, so you could have as many as you wanted, in addition to 6 marine or cult squads.

[KilltheToy]

There's a Red Corsairs army list on the GW website that's pretty close to what I was thinking of

http://uk.games-workshop.com/chaosspacemarines/red-corsairs/1/

Just make a few changes, like replace Huron with my Apostle, and I'd be content.

I'd probably also take advantage of teh rules and stock up on bloodletters, daemonettes, and maybe a few flamers and screamers.

[loopy]

Sorry to derail the topic slightly, but my mate just gave me one of the most generous gifts I've ever seen.

He gave me the following, fully painted, flocked bases.

-Necron Lord
-5 Immortals
-36 Necron Warriors
-10 Pariahs
-10 Flayed ones
-8 Scarab swarms
-3 Wraiths
-3 Destroyers
-Monolith
-Nightbringer
-Necron Codex

That is about 2300 points, including the Nightbringer. A 2300 point army given to me for free! I mean... :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Zorg]

I'd probably also take advantage of teh rules and stock up on bloodletters, daemonettes, and maybe a few flamers and screamers.

The disadvantage is Traitor Marines don't get the specific daemons anymore, only "lesser summoned daemons" (replacing bloodleters, daemonettes etc) and "greater summoned daemons" (Keeper of Secrets etc). Their stats are in the back of the 5th ed book under Chaos Marines.

[SmartAlec]

Personally, I've always sanded the base before undercoating the model. Saves time on painting the sand, and helps seal it onto the base.