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Human Paragon 3
2008-07-23, 08:55 AM
Hi guys,

I'm introducing my players to a Zerth monastary this weekend and I want some minions for them to throw down with Kung-Fu-style. They are a level 2 party consisting of:

Archer Ranger/Warlord multi
Fey Pact Warlock/Thief multi
Spear-wielding Paladin
Well-Rounded Cleric (focus on healing)

I plan to have them throw down in a large room with plenty of interesting terrain to spice things up and am looking for minions that feel kung-fu-y. They should be level 3-4 minions because I want the fight to be hard. They may be accompanied by a level 3-4 Skirmisher (teleport-y monk who uses rapid fire teleportation to gain combat advantage) and/or a 3-4 Lurker (astral monk who becomes ethereal to escape attacks) and some others. Ideas for normal and elite monks are appreciated, too.

Thanks!

Human Paragon 3
2008-07-23, 11:35 AM
Come on, GitP'ers... don't let me down!

quiet1mi
2008-07-23, 12:51 PM
warrior Npc class with
Imp. Unarmed strike.... and
feats that are martial arts like (Complete warrior has a lot of these)


if you need to level 1 monk and level 2 monks work just fine... use the 13,12,11,10,9,8 stats for them (13 in dex 12 in wis 11 in str 10 in con 9 in Int 8 in cha)

edit: is this for 4e because if so, I can't really help due to my unfamilarity with the new system...

but when in doubt make fighters that use primarily unarmed feats and bonuses, give them acrobatics and use weaker stats (like I said above).

Human Paragon 3
2008-07-23, 01:23 PM
It is for 4e, but I appreciate your help anyway. I've now updated the thread title.

arguskos
2008-07-23, 01:47 PM
I'm not incredibly familiar with 4ed, but I can still give fun ideas:

-Steal the Geth Crawlers from Mass Effect: critters that stick to walls, and leap around the room, shooting magical projectiles at the party. They're not too dangerous, but they are annoying, and fun in low-grav environments if you're running this in one.

-Make each of them reach attackers (if reach is in 4ed of course). Give each minion good mobility, each a unique movement method (jumping, burrowing, flying, etc) and some big weapons (like glaives or something), and go wild. Abuse a tough environment.

Do they have to be monks, out of curiosity? Or can they be less... humanoid?

-argus

Yakk
2008-07-23, 01:53 PM
The easy solution is to take the "Human Rabble" stats.

Two level 3 creatures = 300 XP.
5 level 2 players = 625 XP.
Each level 2 Human Rabble = 31 XP

So... 11 Rabble, and the two level 3 boss-types, make a fight.

Human rabble grant each other defensive bonuses when they are near each other, which makes them annoying to swat.

You could give them a more shifty, mobile feel by replacing their "rabble defense" power with "whenever they hit a target, they may shift 1 square as a free action".

For a tough fight (say, a level 4 encounter), you have 175*5 = 875 XP.

Two level 5 real creatures = 400 XP, leaving 475.

15 Rabble!

MartinHarper
2008-07-23, 02:14 PM
You could give them a more shifty, mobile feel by replacing their "rabble defense" power with "whenever they hit a target, they may shift 1 square as a free action".

Also, you could reskin goblin or kobold minions and add a couple of levels to them.

You should use the "preservation of kung fu" cliche. Start off with 15 minions. Once 14 are dead, switch the last one for an elite monster of the same level.

Tengu_temp
2008-07-23, 03:01 PM
You should use the "preservation of kung fu" cliche. Start off with 15 minions. Once 14 are dead, switch the last one for an elite monster of the same level.

It's preservation of ninjutsu. I don't think if Zerths are ninjas.

Anyway, I think the best bet here is to look at the stats for Githzerai and base low-level creatures on them, with similar but toned-down abilities.

Starbuck_II
2008-07-23, 03:11 PM
Hi guys,

I'm introducing my players to a Zerth monastary this weekend and I want some minions for them to throw down with Kung-Fu-style. They are a level 2 party consisting of:

Archer Ranger/Warlord multi
Fey Pact Warlock/Thief multi
Spear-wielding Paladin
Well-Rounded Cleric (focus on healing)

I plan to have them throw down in a large room with plenty of interesting terrain to spice things up and am looking for minions that feel kung-fu-y. They should be level 3-4 minions because I want the fight to be hard. They may be accompanied by a level 3-4 Skirmisher (teleport-y monk who uses rapid fire teleportation to gain combat advantage) and/or a 3-4 Lurker (astral monk who becomes ethereal to escape attacks) and some others. Ideas for normal and elite monks are appreciated, too.

Thanks!

Minions:
Used DMG Dwarf in sample adventure. He is a perfect feel of a monk:
I'll add more when I switch computers (this one is family comp, my laptop is better for posting creatures).
Back:

Level 3 minion:
Human Adept Minion Level 3 Minion
Meduim Natural Humanoid XP 38. Initiative: +5. Senses Perception +4.
HP: 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
AC: 17; Fortitude: 13, Reflex: 16, Will: 16. Speed 6.
Unarmed Strike (standard; at-will)
+7 vs. AC; 5 damage.
Shuriken (standard, at-will) Weapon
Range: 6/12. +6 versus AC, 3 damage.
Wicked Dodge (immediate reaction, when target of melee attack, recharge 6):
+4 versus will, attack auto misses or attack targets any other creature within attacker’s reach (your choice).
Alignment: Evil? Languages: Common. Skills: Acrobatics +8, Athletics +8.
Str 16 (+4) Dex 16 (+4) Con 12 (+2) Wis 16 (+4) Int 10 (+1) Cha 8 (+0).
Equipment: Robes, 20 Shuriken.


Level 4 Skirmishers
Human Monk Jumper Level 4 Skirmisher
Meduim Natural Humanoid XP 175. Initiative: +7. Senses Perception +6.
HP: 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
AC: 18; Fortitude: 14, Reflex: 17, Will: 17. Speed 6.
Unarmed Strike (standard; at-will)
+9 vs. AC; 1d8+4 damage.
Flurry of Blows : (standard, at-will) • Weapon
2 unarmed strikes, Each: +9 vs. AC; 1d8+4 damage.
Shuriken (standard, at-will) Weapon
Range: 6/12. +8 versus AC, 1d4 +4 damage.
Dodge and Throw (immediate reaction; encounter; after an enemy misses with a melee attack)
+7 vs Fortitude; slide target 1, and target is knocked prone.
Quick Step (move; Recharge 5, 6)
The monk jumper teleports up to 4 squares, and gains combat advantage against any target that it ends its move adjacent to.
Combat Advantage
The monk jumper gains +1d6 damage on melee and ranged attacks whenever it has combat advantage against a target.
Alignment: Evil? Languages: Common. Skills: Acrobatics +9, Athletics +9.
Str 16 (+5) Dex 16 (+5) Con 12 (+3) Wis 16 (+5) Int 10 (+2) Cha 8 (+1).
Equipment: Robes, 20 Shuriken.

Level 3 Lurkers
Unsure what you mean: Ethereal as in phasing, instubstanial, or invisible?

DiscipleofBob
2008-07-23, 03:35 PM
Well, it sounds like your party tends to stay just out of reach of melee.

Ironically, the very first encounter I used for my campaign consisted of a Skirmisher, a Lurker, and a few minions.

First of all, setting up the battlefield: This is going to be the kung-fu guys' home turf so they should have the advantage. As long as the monks wait until the PC's are inside and in cramped quarters that should provide a huge detriment to your mostly ranged party. Instead of a large room, where the monks will probably be at a disadvantage, have a crowded hallway or maybe that large room has lots of pillars to make things more cramped for the PC's, but not for the monks who are used to wall-jumping to get where they need to go. Put in some traps that the monks probably train with daily: Some projectile dart type traps at particular key points, some pendulum type blunt objects on ropes that only do a little damage but bull rush a PC across the room where they aren't supported by their allies. If you end up using crowded pillars, give them retractable spinning blades or something that when turned on, a PC who has to pass through has no choice but to take damage. The monks should be near-immune to these traps of course, since they've probably trained with them daily.


Let's see, the Skirmisher. Skirmishers are a bit more tricky because they thrive around moving around a lot, and that's going to be kind of detrimental depending on your terrain. This guy's probably the guy who tries to lead the PC's further into the traps and sets them off, a difficult task considering your party seems to excel at ranged fighting. Let's take a look at the ol' glossary to see if they're any good level 4 Skirmishers. The Dark Creeper looks pretty good, so let's start with that. We'll simply replace the name "Dagger" with "Unarmed Strike" and "Shuriken" for the ranged stuff. Let's take out the whole "Killing Dark" because that really doesn't seem thematically appropriate. Give him a power instead something like this:

Smoke Bomb (Minor; Recover 4, 5, 6)
Close burst 2, you shift up to 6 squares and all enemies caught in the burst take a -2 to attacks and grant combat advantage until the end of the the your next turn.

He'll probably drop out of the rafters for a free attack and then move out of range and behind cover, coaxing PC's to follow to get a better shot, only to have them stumble into traps. Then, when the Lurker and other Minions drop in, he'll be using his Smoke Bomb to give as many of his allies combat advantage as possible while using that Dark Step to move in between the PC's and get at whoever looks like the easiest to pick out (Read: Not the Paladin.)

Also, important, the Skirmisher's going to be the main target of the PC's, and if he's going to be too hard to hit, they'll probably knock off the minions in the first round. Consider buffing up of his AC and Reflex by 2 more than whatever's listed for him.


Let's see, a nice, generic level 4 Lurker to start with would be the Kobold Slybade. Obviously reflavor all appearances, race, and weapons towards your kung fu theme. The Twin Slash, Combat Advantage, and Sly Dodge are all good and important stuff to have on your Lurker. Trap Sense is good for dodging the traps in the room, should your PC's try turning them against you, but Shifty is really a Kobold-specific thing, so that should really be removed. Remember, the deal with Lurkers is that they don't actually enter the combat until they have a good target and have a good opportunity, so basically they hold their action, choose their initiative, and drop down behind the PC's where he can get some good hits on the healer or ranger. A couple more minions should drop down with the Lurker, especially so he can have someone to Sly Dodge with.


For the minions themselves, I'm going to suggest the Legion Devil Grunts. Yes, they are level 6, but you have to remember that they still go down in one hit, so getting them to last means higher defenses. Remove the fire resistance, it really doesn't fit, but the Teleport 3 could be some crazy kung fu flip to get them out of melee if necessary. Use Squad Defense if you think that the kung fu guys should work really well as a team, but otherwise it's not really necessary. An AC of 22 will be difficult to hit for the PC's, make no mistake, but with only a Skirmisher and a Lurker otherwise, neither of which will have spectacular HP or survivability, you're going to need those minions to pose a threat. Also, give them some ranged attacks like Shuriken. Use the same stats as the basic attack only give it a range of 5/10. I suggest 3 or 4 to team up with your Skirmisher in the beginning, and another 2 or 3 to drop down with the Lurker.

I hope that helps.

Human Paragon 3
2008-07-23, 03:51 PM
Great suggestions! The Legion Devlil sounds delicious- i may level him down to 4 though if i'm going to cram the room full of minions.

It will be on the monks' home turf, but the PCs will be picking the battlefield, since they're creating a distraction for a friendly monk. Traps a great idea, especially if the PCs try to create the distraction during a training session.

Yakk
2008-07-23, 04:49 PM
Level 3 minion:
Human Adept Minion Level 3 Minion
Meduim Natural Humanoid XP 38. Initiative: +5. Senses Perception +4.
HP: 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
AC: 17; Fortitude: 13, Reflex: 16, Will: 16. Speed 6.
Unarmed Strike (standard; at-will)
+7 vs. AC; 5 damage.
Shuriken (standard, encounter) Weapon
Range: 6/12. +6 versus AC, 3 damage.
Wicked Dodge (immediate reaction, when target of melee attack, recharge 6):
+4 versus will, attack auto misses or attack targets any other creature within attacker’s reach (your choice).
Alignment: Evil? Languages: Common. Skills: Acrobatics +8, Athletics +8.
Str 16 (+4) Dex 16 (+4) Con 12 (+2) Wis 16 (+4) Int 10 (+1) Cha 8 (+0).
Equipment: Robes, 20 Shuriken.

Changes: you don't want your minions to be bookkeeping heavy.

Level 3 minion:
Human Martial Artist Mook + Level 3 Minion
Medium Natural Humanoid XP 38. Initiative: +7. Senses: Perception: +5.
HP: 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
AC: 15; Fortitude: 14, Reflex: 16, Will: 16. Speed 6.
Unarmed Strike (standard; at-will basic melee attack)
+7 vs. AC; 4 damage.
Pin-point Shuriken (standard; at-will basic ranged attack)
Range: 6/12. +5 versus Reflex, 3 damage.
Zen Dodge (immediate interrupt, triggered when targeted by a melee attack):
+5 versus Will. Hit: Mook shifts 1 square, but not directly away from the attacker. (Note: if the minion shifts out of range or out of line of sight, the attack cannot hit the mook.)
Alignment: Evil? Languages: Common. Skills: Acrobatics +10, Athletics +10.
Str 14 (+3) Con 12 (+2) Dex 18 (+5) Int 10 (+1) Wis 18 (+5) Cha 8 (+0).
Equipment: Robes, 20 Shuriken.

I toned down Wicked Dodge, and removed the recharge on it. I removed all "encounter" powers. I dropped AC down to 12+level to make up for the Wicked Dodge. I boosted Initiative, as they are now more dexterous and more striker-esque.

And now this minion has basically no state, which is very useful if you have 10+ of them running around.

I also gave it attacks on Will, Reflex and AC, to reward multiple defenses on the part of the player (AC melee, Reflex range, and Will anti-melee). The creature's lowest Defense is Fortitude, and AC is pretty weak (Zen Dodge makes up for that). Will and Reflex are high for the creature's level (Dex and Wis are the main sources of this creature's power).

Starbuck_II
2008-07-23, 05:03 PM
I toned down Wicked Dodge, and removed the recharge on it. I removed all "encounter" powers. I dropped AC down to 12+level to make up for the Wicked Dodge. I boosted Initiative, as they are now more dexterous and more striker-esque.

And now this minion has basically no state, which is very useful if you have 10+ of them running around.

I also gave it attacks on Will, Reflex and AC, to reward multiple defenses on the part of the player (AC melee, Reflex range, and Will anti-melee). The creature's lowest Defense is Fortitude, and AC is pretty weak (Zen Dodge makes up for that). Will and Reflex are high for the creature's level (Dex and Wis are the main sources of this creature's power).

Doh, I meant the Shuriken attack as at will. I have no idea why I typed per encounter.
Note, the MM halfing minions have encounter powers: so isn't advised to never have minion with encounter/recharge powers.

But overall, nice revision.

Human Paragon 3
2008-07-24, 09:20 AM
I'm a little unclear on Zen Dodge. Let's say a PC makes a melee attack against the mook out in the open. Since the mook can't move directly away from the PC, does that mean that Zen Dodge can't prevent the hit?

Yakk
2008-07-24, 10:44 AM
The Minion can move diagonally away -- just not directly away.

This, in theory, could result in the Minion not being able to get away. It was just a minor thing I tossed in to make the power a bit weaker.

As it stands, the creature might be too strong. With a medium will defense on the part of players, it takes ~3.5 melee attacks to kill a single Kung-Fu Mook.

On the other hand, two players can defeat a Kung-Fu mook in:
50% chance you can connect, 50% chance buddy can connect.
60% chance you kill on a connect, 40% chance you pass through.

30% chance of killing with 1 action (collectively)
42% chance of killing with 2 actions (collectively)
28% chance of wiffing with 2 actions (collectively)

X = .3 + .42*2 + .28*(X+2)
= .3 + .84 + .56 + .28*X
0.72X = 1.7
X = 2.36

So, so long as you attempt to "double-team" the mooks (ie, attack the ones that already dodged), they aren't that much tougher than a "standard mook", as you cannot use Zen Dodge twice in a row. That's not bad.

And these Mooks are no stronger than usual against area attacks.

Still, I'd be tempted to drop their damage to a flat 3.

Human Paragon 3
2008-07-24, 12:34 PM
The Minion can move diagonally away -- just not directly away.

This, in theory, could result in the Minion not being able to get away. It was just a minor thing I tossed in to make the power a bit weaker.

As it stands, the creature might be too strong. With a medium will defense on the part of players, it takes ~3.5 melee attacks to kill a single Kung-Fu Mook.

On the other hand, two players can defeat a Kung-Fu mook in:
50% chance you can connect, 50% chance buddy can connect.
60% chance you kill on a connect, 40% chance you pass through.

30% chance of killing with 1 action (collectively)
42% chance of killing with 2 actions (collectively)
28% chance of wiffing with 2 actions (collectively)

X = .3 + .42*2 + .28*(X+2)
= .3 + .84 + .56 + .28*X
0.72X = 1.7
X = 2.36

So, so long as you attempt to "double-team" the mooks (ie, attack the ones that already dodged), they aren't that much tougher than a "standard mook", as you cannot use Zen Dodge twice in a row. That's not bad.

And these Mooks are no stronger than usual against area attacks.

Still, I'd be tempted to drop their damage to a flat 3.

Also they have no protection against ranged attacks, which my team specializes in. Maybe some other tweak would be better, like a force shield that knocks away projectiles and other vs. ref attacks.

Gralamin
2008-07-24, 12:59 PM
Also they have no protection against ranged attacks, which my team specializes in. Maybe some other tweak would be better, like a force shield that knocks away projectiles and other vs. ref attacks.

Give them the ability to catch arrows, and change Zen Dodge into a way to get an increase in the reflex defense, for example...

Human Martial Artist Mook + Level 3 Minion
Medium Natural Humanoid XP 38.
Initiative: +7. Senses: Perception: +5.
HP: 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
AC: 15; Fortitude: 14, Reflex: 16, Will: 16.
Speed 6.
Unarmed Strike (standard; at-will basic melee attack)
+7 vs. AC; 4 damage.
Pin-point Shuriken (standard; at-will basic ranged attack)
Range: 6/12. +5 versus Reflex, 3 damage.
Zen Dodge (immediate interrupt, triggered when targeted by a ranged attack that targets Reflex):
Martial Artist Mook gains +3 to its reflex defense.
Catch Arrows (immediate interrupt, triggered when hit by a ranged weapon attack):
The Martial Artist Mook may catch the attack, causing it to deal no damage.
Alignment: Evil? Languages: Common.
Skills: Acrobatics +10, Athletics +10.
Str 14 (+3) Con 12 (+2) Dex 18 (+5) Int 10 (+1) Wis 18 (+5) Cha 8 (+0).
Equipment: Robes, 20 Shuriken.

Benefits: Two teaming them still work (Hit them with two ranged attacks in a round), And they are more focused agaisnt ranged.

elliott20
2008-07-24, 01:35 PM
you do realize that the kung-fu aspect will mostly depend upon your description flavor right? I mean, in a sense, if you just want a bunch of unarmed monk-like minions, then really, yeah, go unarmed minions and you're gold.

And don't forget to figure out what style of kungfu we're talking about here. Is it the Iron Shirt kungfu? Is it the steel palm kungfu? what is it?

Yakk
2008-07-24, 02:02 PM
Hmm. Add lots of cover. Make zen dodge be "whenever targetted by a VS AC attack, can shift 1 before hand. The attack then resolves using whatever cover the mook is under"?

Remember, these are mooks -- they aren't expected to be that good!

You could also have fun and have 3 flavors.

Ninja Kung-Fu Mook (shift as minor action, gets combat advantage and +1 damage if it has "real" cover at any point during it's turn)

Thunderfist Kung-Fu Mook (push 1 on a melee hit). Deal an extra 2 damage if you end up "against" a wall.

Zen Kung-Fu Mook (Interrupt: +5 vs Will when hit. If so, attacker misses.)

Torchlyte
2008-07-25, 05:43 AM
Hmm. Add lots of cover. Make zen dodge be "whenever targetted by a VS AC attack, can shift 1 before hand. The attack then resolves using whatever cover the mook is under"?

Remember, these are mooks -- they aren't expected to be that good!

You could also have fun and have 3 flavors.

Ninja Kung-Fu Mook (shift as minor action, gets combat advantage and +1 damage if it has "real" cover at any point during it's turn)

Thunderfist Kung-Fu Mook (push 1 on a melee hit). Deal an extra 2 damage if you end up "against" a wall.

Zen Kung-Fu Mook (Interrupt: +5 vs Will when hit. If so, attacker misses.)

Use these. These are great ideas and your players will appreciate the originality. They're also easier to run than some of the above suggestions.

Human Paragon 3
2008-07-25, 09:41 AM
Great- thanks for all the help guys!

Anything on the wraith-form lurker?

Yakk
2008-07-25, 10:07 AM
Human Ninja Kung-fu Mook + Level 3 Minion
Medium Natural Humanoid XP 38.
Initiative: +7. Senses: Perception: +4.
HP: 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
AC: 17; Fortitude: 14, Reflex: 17, Will: 15.
Speed 6.
Unarmed Strike (standard; at-will basic melee attack)
+7 vs. AC; 4 damage. +1 damage if has combat advantage
Pin-point Shuriken (standard; at-will basic ranged attack)
Range: 6/12. +5 versus Reflex, 3 damage. +1 damage if has combat advantage.
Ninja Slide (Minor action)
Shift 1 square
Ninja Stealth
If the Ninja gains cover (other than from allies) against a target, it has combat advantage against that target until the start of it's next turn.
Alignment: Evil? Languages: Common.
Skills: Acrobatics +10, Athletics +8, Stealth +10
Str 14 (+3) Con 12 (+2) Dex 18 (+5) Int 14 (+3) Wis 16 (+4) Cha 8 (+0).
Equipment: Black Gi, 20 Shuriken.


Human Thunderfist Kung-fu Mook + Level 3 Minion
Medium Natural Humanoid XP 38.
Initiative: +5. Senses: Perception: +5.
HP: 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
AC: 16; Fortitude: 17, Reflex: 14, Will: 16.
Speed 6.
Unarmed Strike (standard; at-will basic melee attack)
+7 vs. AC; 4 damage. Push target back 1 square. If the target ends up "against" a wall, deals an extra 2 damage.
Ki Strike (standard; at-will basic ranged attack)
Range: 3. +5 versus Fortitude, 3 damage. Push target back 1 square. If target ends up "against" a wall, deal an extra 2 damage.
Alignment: Evil? Languages: Common.
Skills: Acrobatics +8, Athletics +10, Intimidate +5
Str 18 (+5) Con 16 (+4) Dex 14 (+3) Int 10 (+1) Wis 18 (+5) Cha 8 (+0).
Equipment: Blue Gi.


Human Zen Kung-fu Mook + Level 3 Minion
Medium Natural Humanoid XP 38.
Initiative: +7. Senses: Perception: +10.
HP: 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
AC: 17; Fortitude: 14, Reflex: 16, Will: 16.
Speed 6.
Quivering Palm (standard; at-will basic melee attack)
+5 vs. Fortitude; 4 damage.
Shuriken (standard; at-will basic ranged attack)
Range: 6/12. +7 versus AC, 3 damage.
Zen Dodge (Immediate Interrupt; Trigger: hit with an attack)
Attack: +5 vs Will. Hit: Zen Mook shifts 1 square. Attack misses unless it was a blast or burst that also contains the square shifted into.
Alignment: Evil? Languages: Common.
Skills: Acrobatics +10, Athletics +8.
Str 14 (+3) Con 12 (+2) Dex 18 (+5) Int 10 (+1) Wis 18 (+5) Cha 14 (+3).
Equipment: White Gi, 20 Shuriken.

Human Paragon 3
2008-07-25, 10:56 AM
Amazing minions! Thanks Yakk!

Yakk
2008-07-25, 11:34 AM
Fixed their skills, made their stats differ from each other somewhat, and tweaked their defenses.

Human Paragon 3
2008-07-26, 08:08 PM
Thanks guys, I'm using these tomorow- i'll ket you know how it goes. I am using a modified wraith for the lurker and a modified version of the above skirmisher for the ... skirmisher. I added an encounter attacks where he makes up to 3 teleports and finishes it off with a flying kick for d8+4(plus combat advantage).