HitP Lecture Hall

[TwoBitWriter]

Welcome to the Historians in the Playground Lecture Hall!

Within these hallowed walls, eager students of History can listen and discuss.

There will be a new lecture on a different topic every three days. Please be courteous for the speaker, they are taking a good deal of their time to present and teach those who are curious. When a speaker indicates that they have concluded their lecture, a three day Q&A session will commence. After that time, you will see me chime in an announce the end of the lecture/discussion and introduce the next speaker and topic.

For general History-related discussions, refer to the Historians in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85104) thread. That thread will have the updated lecturer list and lecture schedule updated on the first post of that thread

So sit back, learn, and enjoy!

Out first speaker will be Gwyn ap Nud, who will begin his presentation on "The Nature of History" sometime on July 25th!

And please, do not post in this thread until after a lecture.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I apologize for the wait, I had some family troubles with a dying great grandmother, and was away from any computer for a few days.

Let's begin.

The Nature of History, and a Short History of History

The History of History or A Meta-History

The word history comes from the Greek ἱστορία (historia), meaning 'Learning by Inquiry'. As in many things, the basis for our modern study of history comes from the Greek historians. Herodotus of Halicarnassus has been called the 'Father of History', though it was truly his contemporary, Thucydides, who lay down the groundwork for our modern study.
He wrote a book, History of the Peloponnesian War, widely claimed to be the first history book. He has lay down, in that book, the prime principles and concepts that even today's historians, in theory, still follow.
History is primarily chronologically ordered.
A historian should be impassive to their work.
History is primarily the impact of Humans on the Human world.
History is primarily cause and effect.
Many Greek historians, and indeed, a good number of modern historians believe that history is circular, that events that have happened in the past will happen again in the future, albeit in a different guise. But now, I am getting to the Nature of History, and that is in the second part of this lecture.

The other ancient civilization with a penchant for history would be Ancient China. The Chinese historic tradition began with Han Dynasty Court Historian Sima Qian (145–90 BC), and his book, Shiji, translated as Records of the Grand Historian, is, as it's Greek equivalent, still used as a template for modern works. And Sima, like his Greek equivalents, is known as the Father of Chinese Historiography.

Other civilizations before this have erected monuments, obelisks and stylae to their rulers memories, and written stories of their achievements on the monuments, or on other mediums, but these cannot be truly considered histories, as, though there is a kernel of truth hidden in them, they are meant to glorify a ruler, not to tell the truth about em.

History in Europe in the Dark Ages following the fall of the Roman Empire, and in the Medieval Ages was dominated by the priest class, and thus, had a predominantly religious spin on to it. Take for example the English priest St. Bede, who, in c.731, wrote his Historia ecclesiastica gentis Anglorum, or Ecclesiastical History of the English People. Note that it says ‘ecclesiastical’. Look that word up in a dictionary, and you’ll see it says something along the lines of:

Ecclesiastical \Ec*cle`si*as"tic*al\, a.
Of or pertaining to the church; relating to the organization or government of the church; not secular; as, ecclesiastical affairs or history; ecclesiastical courts.

As you can see, this gave the histories of the time a bias: they no longer were impassive, neutral to their work, as Thucydides taught.

Much of the knowledge of earlier Greek and Roman historians was lost, and much of the histories of this time were based in local folklore, embellished by the author, and often changed to suit the author’s point of view. Many historical works had contradicted with others, or had glaring holes in the logic. During the Dark Ages, the state of history got so bad, that it was the opinion of a good number of historians that the Roman Empire was populated by giants.

And then there was the renaissance: the rebirth of much that was lost with the Roman Empire. Philosophy, poetry, literature, knowledge, and, indeed, history, all became important in the eyes of the powerful once more. No longer was a history written as a religious lesson, or to glorify a nation. History as a science had been revived, and history was being written for history’s sake, once more. Take for example the Chronicles of Froissart, by Jean Froissart. They were written from the perspective of Frenchman accustomed to travel in both France and England, and with allegiances to neither. (You can read the full Chronicles of Froissart here (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/froissart-full.html))

However, just because history has been reborn doesn't mean it's reached its peak. The Age of Reason was the golden age of philosophy, science, literature: just about everything that had it's rebirth in the Renaissance had it's peak in the 18th century. The study of history, however, is the exception.

Part 2 will be up later. I will be adding small bits to this over the course of today.

[Silence]

....I must say, I'm slightly intrigued. I'll check back in a few days to see if the lecture happened yet.

[Tragic_Comedian]

Yeah, looks like it's gonna be really cool! I'm looking forward to the actual lectures.

[Green Bean]

I am both intrigued and interested, and look forward to this lecture series.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I am most looking forward to this.

Especially since I am :

A a philospher at heart.

B A novice at greek and egyptian history.

[Gem Flower]

Waiting in eager anticipation!

[Dallas-Dakota]

*looks at date*

27th july...

*wonders where Gwyn and his speech went...

[Ethrael]

Make way! *materializes in front-row seat*

No seriously, I have a really bad disease know as insatiable knowledge hunger and I need more, MORE!!

I'm listening. :smallsmile:

[Silence]

I see no lecture, and you're 3 days overdue.

[Nychta]

*likes the sound of this because all the playgrounders can write well and (generally) concisely and also in an interesting manner

and also because I might actually therefore learn something from here, as opposed to listening to my history teacher drone on*

Now hurry up, please! :smallbiggrin:

[Fri]

That's why you don't play with time machine, Folks! Even if you really love History!

They're having some wacky adventure with romans or something I guess.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I´ve sent a PM to Gwyn, hopefully Gwyn will respond with a lecture.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Lecture is up.

[Silence]

I was expecting something with a little more bulk....

meh.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I'm still adding more. As soon as I started working on it, I was forced to stop, and there was nothing I could do about it, and very little warning either.

For example, I still have a lot more to add about Medieval History, Renaissance History, the Golden Age of History, and the place of History in the Modern World, plus a disclaimer on Oral History, and how it should be considered.

And that's not including the Nature of History part.

[Silence]

I'll check back in a bit. I was hoping for at least a few pages.

[TwoBitWriter]

Be easy on him, this is something new and new things take time to truly shape into what they are meant to become. I don't envy his position of being the first lecturer.

Q&A will commence after Gwyn announces his lecture is done.

[Silence]

Be easy on him, this is something new and new things take time to truly shape into what they are meant to become.

{scrubbed}

[Tragic_Comedian]

{Scrubbed}.

Then why don't you get your whip out and commence with the lashings?

EDIT: It was... just a joke.

[Silence]

Then why don't you get your whip out and commence with the lashings?

Are you trying to be sarcastic? Because it isn't working.

It's not like a can do anything here. Nothing physical, for obvious reasons, and I can't flame.

[Paladin29]

I apologize for the wait, I had some family troubles with a dying great grandmother, and was away from any computer for a few days.

Let's begin.

The Nature of History, and a Short History of History

The History of History or A Meta-History

The word history comes from the Greek ἱστορία (historia), meaning 'Learning by Inquiry'. As in many things, the basis for our modern study of history comes from the Greek historians. Herodotus of Halicarnassus has been called the 'Father of History', though it was truly his contemporary, Thucydides, who lay down the groundwork for our modern study.
He wrote a book, History of the Peloponnesian War, widely claimed to be the first history book. He has lay down, in that book, the prime principles and concepts that even today's historians, in theory, still follow.
History is primarily chronologically ordered.
A historian should be impassive to their work.
History is primarily the impact of Humans on the Human world.
History is primarily cause and effect.
Many Greek historians, and indeed, a good number of modern historians believe that history is circular, that events that have happened in the past will happen again in the future, albeit in a different guise. But now, I am getting to the Nature of History, and that is in the second part of this lecture.

The other ancient civilization with a penchant for history would be Ancient China. The Chinese historic tradition began with Han Dynasty Court Historian Sima Qian (145–90 BC), and his book, Shiji, translated as Records of the Grand Historian, is, as it's Greek equivalent, still used as a template for modern works. And Sima, like his Greek equivalents, is known as the Father of Chinese Historiography.

Other civilizations before this have erected monuments, obelisks and stylae to their rulers memories, and written stories of their achievements on the monuments, or on other mediums, but these cannot be truly considered histories, as, though there is a kernel of truth hidden in them, they are meant to glorify a ruler, not to tell the truth about em.

History in Europe in the Dark Ages following the fall of the Roman Empire, and in the Medieval Ages was dominated by the priest class, and thus, had a predominantly religious spin on to it. Take for example the English priest St. Bede, who, in c.731, wrote his Historia ecclesiastica gentis Anglorum, or Ecclesiastical History of the English People. Note that it says ‘ecclesiastical’. Look that word up in a dictionary, and you’ll see it says something along the lines of:

Ecclesiastical \Ec*cle`si*as"tic*al\, a.
Of or pertaining to the church; relating to the organization or government of the church; not secular; as, ecclesiastical affairs or history; ecclesiastical courts.

As you can see, this gave the histories of the time a bias: they no longer were impassive, neutral to their work, as Thucydides taught.

Much of the knowledge of earlier Greek and Roman historians was lost, and much of the histories of this time were based in local folklore, embellished by the author, and often changed to suit the author’s point of view. Many historical works had contradicted with others, or had glaring holes in the logic. During the Dark Ages, the state of history got so bad, that it was the opinion of a good number of historians that the Roman Empire was populated by giants.

And then there was the renaissance: the rebirth of much that was lost with the Roman Empire. Philosophy, poetry, literature, knowledge, and, indeed, history, all became important in the eyes of the powerful once more. No longer was a history written as a religious lesson, or to glorify a nation. History as a science had been revived, and history was being written for history’s sake, once more. Take for example the Chronicles of Froissart, by Jean Froissart. They were written from the perspective of Frenchman accustomed to travel in both France and England, and with allegiances to neither. (You can read the full Chronicles of Froissart here (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/froissart-full.html))

However, just because history has been reborn doesn't mean it's reached its peak. The Age of Reason was the golden age of philosophy, science, literature: just about everything that had it's rebirth in the Renaissance had it's peak in the 18th century. The study of history, however, is the exception.

Part 2 will be up later. I will be adding small bits to this over the course of today.


A good introduction, I am waiting for the second part, however, I think that the list of the characteristics of the History are really positivist, what do you think of the other streams of history, mainly those of marxist inspiration (structuralism) or the post-contemporary history?.

In other order of things I´ll add Isidoro of Seville (early middle ages, Spain), he was not a pure historian, but his "Etimologias" have historical data of first order.