Steampunk Rome: a new RP system

[Silence]

Ok, so this all started on this thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4573493#post4573493)

We were voting on a RP system, and a lot of us jumped ship due to the votes.

Now we're making our own RP system.

OK, so let's get started. Let's make the theme:
Content so far:

*Steampunk theme
*Dragons and some other fantasy D&Dish creatures
*In Sparta (mainly)
*500AD
*None of the usual fantasy races, like elves and dwarves.
*Airships= Yes
*Modifiers depending on where you're from
*No magic
*Alchemy allows for stuff like Greek fire and healing potions
*Custom pantheon of Gods (Working on that)

Monsters:

Centaur
Hydra
Dragon
Minotaur
Giants
Gargoyle
Steam Golem
Harpy
Ogre
Steam people (playable race made of steapunk parts)
Some giant animals (Bears, lions, ect)
Half undead, half steam golem



The Roman Empire wasn't invaded by barbarians and didn't convert (let's just keep live religion out of this). Technology advanced, replacing bronze with steel and marble with concrete. Steam power was rediscovered, clockwork expanded upon, and those weird Greeks creating golems and the such out of steam powered steampunk stuffs. The Empire has conquered Europe, northern Africa and the near East, maintaining a reasonably stable Pax Romana, though the barbarians are never far from its borders. The Emperor is made immortal through, er, advanced Greek grafting techniques and Roman steam technology (needs work), and gladiatorial mech fights are held for His amusement, while the countryside is filled with God made monsters.

Sparta is one of the few places that the empire hasn't taken, as it's too well defended to take, and to proud to surrender. It's a perpetual state of siege, but no attacks have been made in years.



Discuss and add.

[Viruzzo]

A questione: are the "dragons and fantasy creatures" imported from traditional fantasy ("celtic" and norse mythology) or from classical mythology (roman and greek)?
Also, why 500 AD in particular?

[Silence]

I'm not sure about the creatures. That's up for discussion.

500AD is just a good time for this to happen.

[boomwolf]

why Rome and not sparta?

Heck. everything that can be spartan, SHOULD be spartan.

Anyway, there are no dragons in roman mythology...so ARE they imported?

In any case-how does steampunk and dragons interact?

[Maroon]

I'm assuming alternate history Rome, not near-dead Christian empire Rome?

So the Roman Empire wasn't invaded by barbarians and didn't convert (let's just keep live religion out of this). Technology advanced, replacing bronze with steel and marble with concrete. Steam power was rediscovered, clockwork expanded upon, and those weird Greeks are animating animal hybrids left and right. The Empire has conquered Europe, northern Africa and the near East, maintaining a reasonably stable Pax Romana, though the barbarians are never far from its borders. The Emperor is made immortal through, er, advanced Greek grafting techniques and Roman steam technology (needs work), and gladiatorial mechfights are held for His amusement, while the countryside is again being haunted by horrors such as manticores and and hydras, created by mad Greek scientists.

Things we need to work on:

Crafting. We need a solid system for all this steampunk.
Are we including typical fantasy races (elves, dwarves, goblins, dragons, etc.) or sticking to Roman mythology?
How important gods are. Would players casually make an offering if they pass by a temple, or do they dedicate themselves to their god's cause?

[Silence]

1. Sparta it is!

2. Does it make a difference?

3. The same way dragons normally interact.

[AgentPaper]

Some kind of alternate timeline that includes Sparta, Athens, Rome, (early empire, just after taking all of italy) Carthage, Persians, Mongol hordes, and Gauls sounds like the coolest way to do it to me. And then we can make spain into the Dragon-lands.

And of course they have all developed steam-punk style weaponry, except for the mongols, maybe.

[Silence]

I'm assuming alternate history Rome, not near-dead Christian empire Rome?

So the Roman Empire wasn't invaded by barbarians and didn't convert (let's just keep live religion out of this). Technology advanced, replacing bronze with steel and marble with concrete. Steam power was rediscovered, clockwork expanded upon, and those weird Greeks are animating animal hybrids left and right. The Empire has conquered Europe, northern Africa and the near East, maintaining a reasonably stable Pax Romana, though the barbarians are never far from its borders. The Emperor is made immortal through, er, advanced Greek grafting techniques and Roman steam technology (needs work), and gladiatorial mechfights are held for His amusement, while the countryside is again being haunted by horrors such as manticores and and hydras, created by mad Greek scientists.

Things we need to work on:

Crafting. We need a solid system for all this steampunk.
Are we including typical fantasy races (elves, dwarves, goblins, dragons, etc.) or sticking to Roman mythology?
How important gods are. Would players casually make an offering if they pass by a temple, or do they dedicate themselves to their god's cause?




Ah, sorry. Got ninja'd by this.


Love the history there. Much win.

1. Yea, rule mechanics will come a little later.
2. I've never been a huge fan of Roman mythology, so let's say we have Dwarves and elves.
3. I think we can take D&Dish standpoint here. Some characters may be totally dedicated, and some characters not. I say we use the Roman pantheon. Premade, works well, ect.



@Agentpaper: That sounds good.

[AgentPaper]

If for nothing else but to set this apart, we should forgo the more obviously magical races and classes, as well as the typical DnD standpoint on gods. Since each nation here would have a different pantheon, that wouldn't mix super-well I think. Also, I forgot, we should have Egypt in that list as well. Steampunk was invented in Rome, but spread throughout the world. Mongols are far away, so it would make sense if they were behind in Steampunk tech.

[Silence]

I'm not saying they have to be magical. I don't think there should be magic.

On second thought, let's nix the elves and dwarfs.

[AgentPaper]

all humans is probably fine. Lots of races has been done again and again. We can add more variety better by having plenty of classes, and the various races have plenty of fluff built into them already. If we did races, I would vote for over-emphasizing the race differences between the different empire. So Romans would be one race, Athens another, Spartans another, etc etc.

[Silence]

Hmmmm... there's an idea.

You could have racial modifier like things depending on your homeland. Spartans would get bonuses to melee combat, Romans would be the techies, ect.

[AgentPaper]

Roman: +1 Feat, +Skills
Spartan: +2 CON, -2 CHA
Athens: +2 CHA, -2 STR?
Carthage: +2 INT, -2 WIS
Persians: +2 STR, -2 DEX
Gauls: +2 STR, -2 INT
Egyptians: +2 WIS, -2 CON
Mongols: +2 DEX, -2 WIS

And probably a few extras. Spartans for example getting free martial proficiency, Athens gets a diplomacy bonus, etc.

[Silence]

Yea, it's a good sketch. It still needs work, but it's good.

[alexeduardo]

AgentPaper, how come you so brilliant at this but can't find the time for the freeform fantasy wagame?

*sighs*

Well, I have always had the belief that dwarves were some form of european Pigmies that eventuelly went extinct, so I don't see why we couldn't have a dwarfy people.

And I'm in favor of the homeland modifiers and spain being dragonland


Oh, and
Carthague FTW!!!

[AgentPaper]

Perhaps, instead of using the normal DnD high fantasy ruleset as a basis, we could use a modified D20 Modern? Go for a pseudo-real setting, with magic being very rare, and maybe a bit more grounded in reality than normal DnD. So, dragons a great, powerful creatures, but maybe not magical. They breath fire with flammable gas they process and store in a sac in their bodies, and then exhale it and set it on fire through other bodily processes.

[alexeduardo]

Perhaps, instead of using the normal DnD high fantasy ruleset as a basis, we could use a modified D20 Modern? Go for a pseudo-real setting, with magic being very rare, and maybe a bit more grounded in reality than normal DnD. So, dragons a great, powerful creatures, but maybe not magical. They breath fire with flammable gas they process and store in a sac in their bodies, and then exhale it and set it on fire through other bodily processes.

there's a very good discovery channel documentary about how dragons could have very plausibly existed. Maybe the unbelievers should watch it...

[Maroon]

If for nothing else but to set this apart, we should forgo the more obviously magical races and classes, as well as the typical DnD standpoint on gods. Since each nation here would have a different pantheon, that wouldn't mix super-well I think. Also, I forgot, we should have Egypt in that list as well. Steampunk was invented in Rome, but spread throughout the world. Mongols are far away, so it would make sense if they were behind in Steampunk tech.
I'm thinking divine magic should be limited to rituals, prayer and direct intervention of the gods. Religion was a pretty integral part in daily classical life, not so much that people had faith in whatever god, but ritual was very important if you didn't feel like offending anyone religious (in-game, this basically just means you shouldn't do anything stupid in the temple district). On gods in particular, the Romans were very fond of assimilating foreign gods. Any new god they came across? Just a different name for one they already have. Thor is Jupiter, is Toutatis is Mars, et cetera. Just a different, unenlightened interpretation by barbarians.

I suggest steampunk wasn't so much invented by the Romans, as that it was utilized in any sort of practical manner at all by them. The Greeks were very clever at medicine and mechanics and physics, but they were very secretive about all of this, and I mean cult secretive. Anyone who talks, dies (e.g. they killed someone over the number zero). Romans, on the other hand, didn't have this reservation and just wanted to use the knowledge to conquer the world (which they did). But of course Romans are going to claim they invented it all, as per usual.


Well, I have always had the belief that dwarves were some form of european Pigmies that eventuelly went extinct, so I don't see why we couldn't have a dwarfy people.
Actually, there is a theory that the short, bearded, dark-skinned, metalworking dwarves of Norse mythology were southern Europeans (i.e. Romans) as they were stereotyped by the Norse.


Perhaps, instead of using the normal DnD high fantasy ruleset as a basis, we could use a modified D20 Modern? Go for a pseudo-real setting, with magic being very rare, and maybe a bit more grounded in reality than normal DnD. So, dragons a great, powerful creatures, but maybe not magical. They breath fire with flammable gas they process and store in a sac in their bodies, and then exhale it and set it on fire through other bodily processes.Perhaps we can limited 'arcane magic' to alchemy. Potions of healing exist, but they're 'scientific', not 'magical'. Artifacts were made by the gods, but they were constructed, not conjured up. Gods are just that good. In that vein, mortals can get just that good too, but not without a proper smiting from the gods if they catch you. Mythical creatures were maybe not birthed by the gods in the literal way, but instead crafted (take one lizard body, eleven snake heads, an ounce of limbroot powder, stir vigorously, serve with lemon slice). Right now, it's difficult to differentiate between very old mythical creatures (courtesy of the gods) and quite new mythical creatures (courtesy of mad scientists). Dragons are epic constructs, and you have to be a god to make one properly, but a pegasus would be doable.

[AgentPaper]

Sounds nifty. I actually saw that discovery channel documentary you mentioned. It gave me the idea for non-magical dragons, actually. And what you have sounds cool for "magic". The closest to a magic class should be alchemist, or engineer. Perhaps a "Steam Mage" that has lots of nifty steampunk gadgets that he can use to cast "spells". Each spell is actually a device he made for himself, and only he can use, and he can only have so many equipped per level, of various levels. Would probably work best as a prestige class, probably requiring engineer levels or abilities.

[Destro_Yersul]

Are there still going to be swords and axes and the like? And maybe really strong people could be carrying steam boilers around on their backs, properly insulated of course, with hoses and triggers and things for a man-portable steam cannon. Sort of like a flamethrower, except it can cook things in armour faster.

Don't know if those have been done by anyone before, but we should have 'em. Because it would be awesome.

[AgentPaper]

Normal weapons are there. Artifact weapons could use steam power (super-efficient, unrealistically so) to make them more powerful, like shooting out a jet of steam to make them hit harder, and heating up the metal of the blade, or running a mini steam engine to make chain weapons.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Greek Fire. Used by the Byzantine Empire, on land, exactly as you described them, and at sea, attached to the prow of ships.

[AgentPaper]

Greek fire would be different from a Steam Cannon.

[alexeduardo]

And it would be awesome!!!

But I think Carthague still needs something to be the incredible force that nearly destroyed Rome.
Aircraft, maybe?

[AgentPaper]

Super-battleships. Flying variety comes naturally, of course. Rome has them, but not quite as big, and not nearly as advanced. They have more, though, and they keep making even more and more. On the ground, carthage has huge numbers, possibly of steampunk war machines, as well as huge hulking walking cathedral type steampunk machines. (African light infantry and war elephants, respectively) Rome has very powerful heavy-infantry machines/troops.

[mikeejimbo]

And it would be awesome!!!

But I think Carthague still needs something to be the incredible force that nearly destroyed Rome.
Aircraft, maybe?

Steam-powered Elephants, obviously.

[Silence]

Ok, I read through everyone's posts.

The dwarf thing is irrelevant, as you get homeland modifiers that do the same thing.

I like a lot of these ideas.

A few things we'll have: Greek fire, normal weapons, steam weapons, and airships. Because airships are awesome.

[alexeduardo]

Because airships are awesome.

And from carthague, I hope

[AgentPaper]

Oh, and just to be clear, I'm imagining these airships as huge metal behemoths that stay afloat by shooting superheated steam straight down in really massive amounts. More rudimentary airships could be made of wood, and fly by having the steam from the engine that powers the ship funnel up into a zepplin-style blimp. They can switch between fly-mode and sail-mode as they wish. Most trade ships and civilian ships would probably be this style.

Carthage would definitely get the biggest and baddest steam-jet style airships. Very advanced, smaller style ships could use steam to move around really quickly, as well. (though most of the ship would consist of the steam engine)

[Destro_Yersul]

Yes, airships are very awesome. How fortunate that there's access to lighter-than-air gasses in this setting. I am now getting visions, yes. Visions of steam powered zeppelins...

[Silence]

I imagine the airships to be everything from a paddle boat with a balloon and steam engine tied to it, to a super-fortress powered by incredibly advanced steam system armed with superweapons.

[alexeduardo]

Aye, to battle, my cartaguiniean brothers!

btw, steam powered airplanes?

[Silence]

Airplanes? Hmmmmmm....

I can imagine a king having a small reserve of super-fast tactical bombers. But they would be experimental technology.


Ok, let's discuss how the monsters will work.

[alexeduardo]

Airplanes? Hmmmmmm....

I can imagine a king having a small reserve of super-fast tactical bombers. But they would be experimental technology.

Yippie!!!!

[AgentPaper]

Experimental for sure. Single prototype in carthage, which the players could steal/be awarded with.

[Silence]

Ok, so here are my view on monsters: Most of the D&D monsters will exist, but only the low intelligence ones.

Displacer beasts and hydras are ok, but orcs would change the balance of the game.

Alternatively, there could just be dragons, but there could be lots of different types of dragons, hundreds of diverse breeds, some eat grass, some swim, they do everything.

[alexeduardo]

But they cannot speak, that's when the game gets tacky

[Silence]

Hmmmmm... how about some dragons are just like animals, and some have found a way to communicate with humans. Say, some humans, after studding them for years, developed a way of figuring out what they're saying, and mimicking it.

[BRC]

You need to remember, one of the the roman's big strengths was their ability to build infastructure in the area's they conquered. They would conquer someplace, then fill it with roads, forts, aqueducts ect. So I'm thinking the romans get combined siege/construction equipment. They use bulldozer tanks to level an enemy camp, then build a fortress on top of it. Maybe some sort of catapult that fires wet concrete.

I approve of Carthaginian airships, heck, maybe Carthage is a completally airborne society after Rome burned it to the ground and salted it's fields.

Which Persia is this, is this ottoman empire persia, or Babylon persia or what?

[alexeduardo]

Hmmmmm... how about some dragons are just like animals, and some have found a way to communicate with humans. Say, some humans, after studding them for years, developed a way of figuring out what they're saying, and mimicking it.

nice, as long as they're not walking on the streets of Cairo with a top hat and cane.

And speaking of cairo, will the nations have a greed to a ceasefire? a stalemate? or will war be waging on around the players?

I aprove of averything the BRC said, even the airborne Carthague part

[Silence]

As said before, Rome has taken over the playable area, but it's still split up into countries. There's constant strife on the ever expanding borders, but it doesn't stand a chance against Rome. It's not even worth thinking about.

[AgentPaper]

Monsters should be from the mythology of the various nations, and few but very powerful. Constructed by the gods with their super-advanced steampunk. (Extremely intricate, so they are impossible to tell from biologicals, but are far tougher) They should be forces to reckon with, not weenie mooks that the players slaughter for exp. I think it would be best if most of the combat took place between the various factions. So, if you had a group working for the romans, you might start fighting Gauls soldiers, or Carthaginian. Plots are much more interesting when you're fighting for the glory and survival of the empire, or just trying to get along in the world, and getting caught up. If you wanna go find a magic artifact, or save a princess from a bunch of snake peoples, you go play DnD. If you want to fight for your life on a humongous battleship, belching steam and with the tremendous roar of the engines, against a troop of spartan warriors with steam-powered spears charging at you while a Persian Steam-Mage covered in a panoply of steam-engines and devices, who is using one of to shoot a stream of burning Greek Fire at you, you play Steampunk in Rome. :smallbiggrin:

[alexeduardo]

It's not even worth thinking about.

hmm, I can picture the governors plotting to betray the emperor:smallamused:

but that's another story for another time

[Silence]

Ok, so let's put together a list:

Centaur
Hydra
Dragon
Minotaur
Giants
Gargoyle
Steam Golem
Harpy
Ogre
Steam people (playable race made of steapunk parts)

[alexeduardo]

Gigantic crab thing
Gigantic turtle thing
Nemea Lion (or a distant cousin)
Dire everything
Cyclops (many of 'em)
Undead hoplites (I just like sayin' that)

[AgentPaper]

No undead, please.

[Silence]

Gigantic crab thing
Gigantic turtle thing
Nemea Lion (or a distant cousin)
Dire everything
Cyclops (many of 'em)
Undead hoplites (I just like sayin' that)

We want to just get in the really important generic stereotypical ones, so dire stuff doesn't work. Cyclops is pretty much the same as giant, and undead are a no-go.

What's a Nemea Lion?

[AgentPaper]

Any magical abilities these guys have should be steampunk flavored. If possible, they should also be made by people, not gods, and probably used in war as well as the roaming ones.

[BRC]

The Way I see it.
Rome has conquered Gaul, but there are still Gaelic rebels in the woods. They are led by druids that oppose rome and it's technology. These Druids are actually master Chemists, so rather than, say, destroying a building with a tank bulldozer they blow it up with chemical explosives. Their guerrillas fight Romes steam-legions with axes and spears, of course, that's AFTER they get pumped up on druidic super-steroids. The Druids are essentially Mad scientists who dress in earth-tones.
Rome Conquered Greece, the Athenians are the premier thinkers and scientists in the empire. They appear to be opressed and controlled, but actually wield huge influence in Rome itself.
Sparta was too proud to surrender and too well-defended to fall. This has lead to a curious situation, Sparta is locked in a state of perpetual siege. No actual attacks have been made in years, and the entire place is pretty much a training ground/ place for legionairres about to retire. Smuggling is so common it's all but supported. Sparta continues it's military tradition but due to the stalemate nature of the "Siege" they don't really fight for sparta. Traditionally and ironically, groups of spartan warriors will "Defect" to rome where they are treated as elite soliders, after a couple years collecting pay they are deployed at the Siege of Sparta, where they then "Defect" back.
After Carthage was burned it's people took to the skies. The "city" of Carthage is merely some Aerodrome towers, it's people survive entirely off trade and for the most part live in airships. Because Rome has reletivly primitive Airship technology, Carthaginians can go more or less go where they please, usually to trade with the persians or the gauls.


More ideas to come.

EDIT: setting name: Steam Romania.

[Silence]

@Agentpaper: There should be some man-made ones, like the golems, but they're not nearly as well made as the God's.

@BCR: Hmmmmm....

[alexeduardo]

I agree with BRC on the setting name and Carthague fluff.

The Nemea Lion is a huge lion Hercules killed.
But I don't know if it'll sit well with the steampunk we trying to make

[Silence]

Ok, I'll throw in some giant animals.

[AgentPaper]

Yeah, man-made ones would probably be the most common, and of course low CR, like none over 10 maybe. God-created monsters would be CR 10-20, and be powerful enough to threaten armies and wreck cities. CR 21+ would be enhanced god-creatures, and gods.

Nemea lion should be a war-machine made by the greeks. Developed in Nemea, it's a walking war-machine that looks something like a lion. It shoots greek fire from it's mouth.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I agree with BloddyRed. That I can visualise. Airships would be mostly blimps, with large carriages. Actual aircraft is stretching it a bit.

[Silence]

Ok, then. Let's work on that list. Brainstorm like crazy.

[AgentPaper]

Blimps for most, but Carthage should get behemoth airships made all of metal, which fly by shooting down jets of steam. They don't go much faster, but are bigger and tougher and more advanced.

[Destro_Yersul]

No undead, please.

We could have steam zombies. They'd be like undead, only instead of being brought to an unholy semblance of life through dark necromantic magic, they were brought to an unholy semblance of life by having pipes, boilers vents, hinges and other similar objects worked into their rotting flesh in order that they might shamble around under power that, while not their own, may as well be.

They would have big pipes on their backs to let excess steam escape and they would be hunched over and shambling because it was the technology moving for them, and they were just a useful frame with which to hold it together.

[Silence]

That sounds downright.... evil. And delightful.

[AgentPaper]

Sounds good. As long as we don't have huge hordes of them. Something made into a Horror (sounds like a good name for them) would be more powerful than the original.

Actually, it's more of a flesh golem in the first place...

[Silence]

Yea, but it adds flavor.

[alexeduardo]

I like the nemea lion warmachine idea very much.
How about 40ky war suits for praetorians and other elite legionaries?

[AgentPaper]

Or just turn it into a flamethrower. Mech-suit works for me too though.

[Silence]

I think that's pushing it a bit, but the Nema's lion thing seems fine.

[alexeduardo]

I think that's pushing it a bit, but the Nema's lion thing seems fine.

oh well.

*thinks a little*

And trains? there would be train web all over rome!!!! Steam powered cars filled with bandits robbing roman trains!
*evilgasm*

[AgentPaper]

Just make it top-of-the-line prototype stuff. Actually, each nation should have some sort of super powerful new prototype technology. Carthage could have the fast steam-jets, Sparta could have the Nemian heavy infantry suit.

Romans would definitely build trains everywhere if they could. All trains built by romans, and all trains lead to Rome.

[alexeduardo]

*talking about prototypes*

How about some sort of super chariot for egypt?
Some sort of secret killer robot for the hebrews? (never trusted 'em)
A death ray for athens?
A HUGE persian tank?

[Destro_Yersul]

The Horror things would take too long to make for there to be hordes of them. Have to just be one or two every now and again.

And yeah, the romans should have some sort of train.

[alexeduardo]

and how about the Gauls fining some sort of ancient machine and storming a roman city with it? (think 40k orks)

[AgentPaper]

Yeah, but that's more of a plot a DM running a game would need, not something you put in a ruleset.

[Silence]

I think you guys are going a little overkill here. I'm drawing the line....

[alexeduardo]

I think you guys are going a little overkill here. I'm drawing the line....

okay okay. We're just brainstorming here...

about that persian tank, I say it should be Huge!

not huge, just Frightening

[Silence]

Look, I don't like the idea of having vehicles like this. Takes away from the idea of using swords.

[Destro_Yersul]

Fair enough. I will avoid mentioning steam powered robot ninjas with dual-wield gatling steam cannons and eye lasers that fire pure hatred.
...
dammit. :smalltongue:

Ok, another suggestion, but this time it's serious. Submarines should be one of the prototype super weapon things. or if you don't like that... what about steam powered horses? They never tire, and you hardly have to feed them.

[Silence]

Submarines are cool. I think that would lead to some interesting stuffs.

[AgentPaper]

There should be vehicles, but along the lines of one per battlefield. They make a big difference, but they don't win wars. Also not super-well built, you can take them down by hacking their parts in pieces with a good sword blow.

[BRC]

I'm thinking Zombies may be created by the Druids, they pump people full of drugs by dumping them into the local water supply. The Drugs cause the victims to hear at a higher octave then normal people, and cause them to become highly open to suggjestions. The druids then cause themselves to speak at that octave and command the "zombies". They zombies can't hear anybody else because they can only hear at the heightened frequency.

I don't think that heavy vehicles should really be available to players. The Romans may have battledozers, but the players don't really get them. Vehicles shouldn't be Super heavy things the size of city blocks.

[Silence]

I don't like the druid zombie idea... it's a little far for my taste.

[AgentPaper]

That would work, if we wanted horde zombies. We don't, though.

[Silence]

Yea, zombie hordes area no-go. I think the only hordes there will be is of people.

[Destro_Yersul]

Right. No vehicles for players. They might get to ride in one if the owner likes them enough, but they can't own one themselves. They should be able to get one of those awesome steam powered roman armour suit thingies though. Make lots of clanking noises and suchlike.

[BRC]

Fair enough.

What about the Goths, are we just going to treat them like Gauls? have they been conquered by Rome?

Edit: Only the Pretorian Guard get roman power armor. At least, that's what I think.

[alexeduardo]

Well, the persian tank would be some sort of prototype. possibly the focus of an adventure or campaign.
Also, I love the submarine idea

[alexeduardo]

Fair enough.

What about the Goths, are we just going to treat them like Gauls? have they been conquered by Rome?

No, they use super heated shields and axes and have stolen warsuits from the legionaries

[BRC]

No, they use super heated shields and axes and have stolen warsuits from the legionaries
I don't see John Q legionary getting a warsuit. Maybe Centurions would get them though.

[AgentPaper]

Can't claim to know much about the goths. Perhaps they were never quite taken over as the gauls were? We could have the scottish Woad Warriors as well, probably just called the Woad or something. Historically they were never really conquered by the romans, so it would make sense to have the same dealie here. Both goths and gauls would probably be just different cultures of Gaul though, maybe a sub-race at most.

[alexeduardo]

Gauls were pushed back...
BY THE MOTORCYCLE HUNS!!!

[BRC]

Gauls were pushed back...
BY THE MOTORCYCLE HUNS!!!
That was what I was thinking for the mongols.


Also, a steam powered tank that uses high-pressure steam as it's primary attack.

[AgentPaper]

nah, huns/mongols use horses still. And bows. Being in the far east they didn't get the advancements of tech as much as the other peoples did. They probably have at least some they took from fallen foes at least, though.

[BRC]

nah, huns/mongols use horses still. And bows. Being in the far east they didn't get the advancements of tech as much as the other peoples did. They probably have at least some they took from fallen foes at least, though.
Actually, the Chinese were way ahead of the romans scientifically.

[mikeejimbo]

Athens should definitely have a Death Ray, though.

[alexeduardo]

Athens should definitely have a Death Ray, though.

That's what I said!

And horse-riding mongols don't stand a chance though. I guess history will have to take a drastic turn in that case

[BRC]

That's what I said!

And horse-riding mongols don't stand a chance though. I guess history will have to take a drastic turn in that case
Unless the mongols mastered Rocketry. So their still riding horses, only except for bows they have Rockets.

[alexeduardo]

That's what I said!

And horse-riding mongols don't stand a chance though. I guess history will have to take a drastic turn in that case

As opposed to our much more traditional take on classic technology and mythology:smallbiggrin:

also, aye for the rockets

[AgentPaper]

Mongols seem better if they play the "straight man" in this scenario. They use traditional weapons. There shouldn't be anything that anyone uses that can't be taken down with normal weapons. It should be difficult, for sure, but not impossible. Mongols in hordes firing arrows from horseback shouldn't be weak.

[mikeejimbo]

That's what I said!

And horse-riding mongols don't stand a chance though. I guess history will have to take a drastic turn in that case

Yeah, credit to you (Well, actually Archimedes) for the idea. I only seconded it. :P

[BRC]

Mongols seem better if they play the "straight man" in this scenario. They use traditional weapons. There shouldn't be anything that anyone uses that can't be taken down with normal weapons. It should be difficult, for sure, but not impossible. Mongols in hordes firing arrows from horseback shouldn't be weak.
Hrmm, it just seems kinda boring. The Mongols were the biggest empire in the world, and were not giving them any nifty tricks? Were turning some of the greatest conquerors in history into a Mook race that's only effective because they attack in large numbers?

[AgentPaper]

No, they're effective because they're really skilled in combat, and strong, instead of using high tech. A Mongol warlord with his big ol' axe and lots of training should be an even match for that roman guy in the mech armor. (or whatever we give them)

[alexeduardo]

I still say a modern atila with a gun would be pretty neat.

And they're called warsuits

[BRC]

No, they're effective because they're really skilled in combat, and strong, instead of using high tech.
Well if we want them to be effective against roman power armor it will have to be a whole race of legolas-level archers. I like Badass Normals as much as the next guy, but I think we should do something with the mongols.

[Destro_Yersul]

Besides, how's your friendly roman war juggernaut going to fire his fancy-pants steam cannon if he's got no arms left? Give the Mongols some really sharp arrows or something.

Also, I am reminded of a rhyme from Calvin & Hobbes:

"How many boards would the Mongols hoard if the Mongol hordes got bored?"

[alexeduardo]

Well if we want them to be effective against roman power armor it will have to be a whole race of legolas-level archers. I like Badass Normals as much as the next guy, but I think we should do something with the mongols.

either cars or motorcycles are fine with me.

Maybe they raid aircities on their very own wood and fabric airplanes?

[AgentPaper]

I just don't see what they would add if they were just another race of people using steampunk. I mean, what would they do with steampunk that nobody else is doing? And I disagree that it would require an army of Legolas' to win. Most soldiers even in the roman army I assume still use normal weapons and armor. Warsuits are nice, and would take a concentrated effort to take down, but there aren't so many of them to make a threat to the mongols all on their own. If nothing else, their superior horsemanship can keep them out of it's reach.

[alexeduardo]

I just don't see what they would add if they were just another race of people using steampunk. I mean, what would they do with steampunk that nobody else is doing? And I disagree that it would require an army of Legolas' to win. Most soldiers even in the roman army I assume still use normal weapons and armor. Warsuits are nice, and would take a concentrated effort to take down, but there aren't so many of them to make a threat to the mongols all on their own. If nothing else, their superior horsemanship can keep them out of it's reach.

I still say motorcycles would be neat

[BRC]

I just don't see what they would add if they were just another race of people using steampunk. I mean, what would they do with steampunk that nobody else is doing? And I disagree that it would require an army of Legolas' to win. Most soldiers even in the roman army I assume still use normal weapons and armor. Warsuits are nice, and would take a concentrated effort to take down, but there aren't so many of them to make a threat to the mongols all on their own. If nothing else, their superior horsemanship can keep them out of it's reach.
well, it depends. How's Gunpowder in this setting. Steampunk usually means Gunpowder, but maybe the only ranged weapons heavier then crossbows used pressurized steam.

Edit: I just had a mental image of mongols riding in circles around a steampunk warsuit, shooting arrows at it with cords attached to the end in order to bring it down (Not standard mongol tactics, but it's how they handle Warsuits and similar things)

[AgentPaper]

Exactly, use smart tactics and martual prowess to win. Not to mention mongols were seriously good archers in real life. Amp that up even a little bit, and they are, if not legolas level, really really good archers.

[BRC]

Exactly, use smart tactics and martual prowess to win. Not to mention mongols were seriously good archers in real life. Amp that up even a little bit, and they are, if not legolas level, really really good archers.
So Steam Romania mongols are just normal mongols +10, that could work.

Don't forget Mongol horsemanship, every mongol character should come with a top-of-the-line horse, or at least really good skill with horses.

[Eita]

I say that warsuits should be limited, perhaps only for praetorian but for no one more elite then a centurion. The newly Immortal God-Emperor would have a super-advanced prototype version that also serves as his life-support system.

The current Khan of the Mongol Horde would have a derivative of this technology fashioned by his Chinese servants. It would not offer as much protection, but an additional warsuit for his horse actually makes it so he can still ride it via steam-powered muscle assistance.

Dragons are in and they should be wide-spread (Historical tidbit: Roman masons blamed dragons for slowed work on the Colosseum) and come in many different forms depending on region. Some empires will be happy to at least get an alliance with them, having them ride with them in battle. The dragons who agree to such a deal would be cut off from the rest of their race and as such would be very rare and should only be deployed in the most crucial of engagements. If the Romans have one, it would be used only against airships such as Carthage.

Also, several advanced empires should also have the ability to construct clockwork dragons that, while impressive, would be nowhere the abilities of their god-made cousins. Legions of these could be sent against genuine dragons, and mainly used to stop them from causing significant damage.

The Hebrews should get a giant steam-golem as well as other, smaller steam-golems, because, well, they were the ones who made golems first.

[Zeta Kai]

Wow, 4 pages in 6 hours. That's gotta be a record for the Homebrew forum.

[alexeduardo]

oookay, welcome to the project, I guess.

A chinese style mongol warsuit would be fine I guess.
But I want dragons to be as amagical as possible

[AgentPaper]

+4 ride, and a prestige class for mongols only, which is great for archery from horseback. Easy to get at earlyish levels, possibly even a base class.

[alexeduardo]

+4 ride, and a prestige class for mongols only, which is great for archery from horseback. Easy to get at earlyish levels, possibly even a base class.

speaking of which, do we have any established classes as of yet?

[BRC]

speaking of which, do we have any established classes as of yet?

I figured we would have generic classes, and then "cultural" Classes. Like for example, a Mongol could be a fighter, Or take the cultural class "Mongolian Horse archer." Gauls/Goths get Druid as a cultural class.

[alexeduardo]

Pilot as Carthague culture class!

[BRC]

Pilot as Carthague culture class!

Pilot is too generic, I was thinking Airman.

Here were the Ideas I had.


Gaul/goth: Druid (Potion brewer), Barbarian (Meele combatant).
Mongol: Horse Archer (Combatant), Raid Leader (Support).
Carthage: Airman (Airship pilot), Flight Engineer (Support for airship based campaigns).
Rome: Legionary (Combatant), Steam Engineer (Support).
Athens: Philosopher (Support), Hoplite(Combatant).
Sparta: Hoplite.

I have ideas for what these classes entail, I may write them up later.

[AgentPaper]

Sounds nice. One class for each culture would work fine. As for normal classes, I was thinking:

Fighter
Rogue
Ranger (replace spells with minor alchemy)
Alchemist
Technician

That would make the core pretty well. Alchemist is probably thematically similar to a druid or cleric, technician is a bit like a wizard. Other ideas should arise based more around the steampunk theme as we go.

Oh, and for the racial classes, it should have the requirement of having trained in the homeland of that nation, and not the actual race. Getting training in the homeland requires you born there or somehow prove your loyalty to them.

Spartans should get the Hoplite, and the hoplight should be a class similar to a paladin. Only instead of a paladin mount, they get their warsuit!

[YPU]

Hm, let me throw I my two gears.
Monsters, I suppose the barbarian hordes all around could have monsters from their own mythology? Trolls from the north of Europe dragons from Asia?

Trains, if rome has trains they run on heightened tracks, much like the aqueducts. Heck they could run parallel or below the aqueducts. Why? I once had a campaing idea that had ancient steam trains on aqueduct like structures, now I know where they came from. ;)
If trains are to powerful still think of heightened walkways, it has a very ‘above the rest’ feeling and thus provokes ambush.
Now that I think of it, we are talking about some serious bit of land here. Quite huge distances. (rome, on of the larges empires eve existed stretching form x to y on its peak, who hasn’t heard it) so things like trains boats and airships might be needed, would we use anything near realistic travelling times, or else the players will be on their way to one place halve their lives considering al the side quests they would encounter.

Call me stupid, but wasn’t the idea to make this non-d20? Then shouldn’t there be les dnd talk and more simple draft of class without referring to the 20? Else we will end up with a ‘its like dnd steampunk rome with x instead of d20ies.’

[alexeduardo]

um, how about a Steam Defuser prestige class? specialized i taking stuff appart?

[AgentPaper]

I put forth the idea of making it d20 modern. Guess we should have a vote though. What ruleset, if any, should we base this off of?

d20 Fantasy (Standard DnD ruleset)
d20 Modern
New Ruleset

My vote goes to Modern, and feel free to put forward any other ideas as well.

[YPU]

I would go for a d20 system rework based on d20 modern. But face it nobody likes going trough the first 4 levels of the base classes, so that should be redone I think. But using modern rather then dnd would get rid of the build in magics.

[BRC]

I don't know d20 Modern, but Heres my revised list of Cultural Classes.

Rome: Steam Engineer
The Roman empire is built on steam and steel, and as a steam engineer you embody that. Your specialty is in the design, construction, repair, and operation of heavy steam-powered devices. Steam-Ballistas, tracked vehicles, Trains, power suits, and anything else. You still maintain some general technical skills, but your specialty is clearly defined. Based off the Technician, but with a focus on heavier devices.

Carthage: Airman
Carthage is an airborne society, and you exemplify that. Part pilot, part engineer you specialize in the design, construction, repair and operation of airships. Based off the Technician, but with a clear focus on airships.

Mongols: Raider
The Mongolian people are famous for two things, horses and archery. You are a master of both. Fairly self-explanatory really. Based off the Ranger.
Athens: Philosopher
You are a man of science who seeks to understand the world, You seek to answer the big questions. Because of this, you know a little of everything, and can use it well. You are capable of using this knowledge to brew potions and give advice for your allies. In addition, your training in Athens included Rhetoric, making you very persuasive. Based off the Alchemist, focuses on Knowledge skills and diplomacy.

Gaul: Druid.
You are a master of the practical sciences. The philosopher may ask why the flower is white, but you know that if ground up, mixed with toads blood and clear springwater, then boiled for three minutes, that flower will cause a man to feel no pain and fight with twice his strength. You hail from the forests of Gaul, and likely are involved with the Anti-roman rebellions there. Based off the Alchemist but highly focused on potion brewing.
Sparta: Hoplite
"Hoplite" could technically refer to any greek warrior, but the rest of greece has forgotten what it means. You represent the pinnacle of Spartan martial tradition and you want to make sure everybody knows it. Let the romans keep their steaming warsuits, all you need is a blade, a shield, and some targets. Based off the fighter with a heavy focus on melee combat with archaic weapons.

EDIT: Tech classifications.
Archaic: Swords and bows. Medieval era stuff.
Lightweight: Crossbow grappling hooks, hang gliders, tech-enhanced weapons, Guns that work off compressed gas. Pretty much any technology that can be handheld. Often run off stored power or muscle power.
Heavy: Vehicles, Steam Powered Ballista, Warsuits and the like, Big bulky things. Often run off internal steam engines.




Healing: Because were not using magic, I don't think healing should be "Poke, your all better" type of stuff. Instead, Druids and alchemists really just delay the effects of wounds until later. It's not that the potion/ shot they just gave you really healed you, it just numbed the pain and stopped the blood loss for now. After you finish killing that hydra they will need to administer proper medical treatment, but in-battle healing is mostly band-aid type stuff.

[Shades of Gray]

I think the mongols should ride either cyborg or robot horses.

[erikun]

Wow, neat. Too bad I feel terribly behind on the thread. Let's see, what to touch on...

First, I don't like the +2 Dex/-2 Con setup to differentiate the different nations. It's overdone in D&D, and it just feels... too generic. Something more like "Spartians get +1 attack roll and +1 AC with shields" and "Greeks get +1 Knowledge and +1 arcane caster level" feel a bit better. Spartians aren't stronger than everyone else, they're just more trained as a nation.

When I was thinking while reading through the thread, I was thinking about the Romans, Spartians, and Greeks making up the "civilized" world with the Persians in the east, Vikings in the north, and probably Egyptians towards the south of the Mediterranean. I mean, we don't need for the nations to be historically accurate, especially if we're throwing in steam trains and mecha power armor. :smalltongue:

I'm not too keen on Roman steam trains, mainly because it implies that Rome has laid down vast amounts or metal rail lines throughout Europe. That doesn't really feel "in tune" with the theme of Rome. More likely, it would be a steam chariot, with Rome cobbling large, straight roads to run the chariots. Please note that any 'steam chariot' is probably hard to maneuver, and will likely bust an axle easily if driven off-road - PCs should be able to hijack them easily.

Beyond that: if by Persians you mean Prince of Persia-style, I could easily see them building clockwork golems for war. Vikings would have wolves (possibly giant riding wolves) and eagles for fighting. And the Mongols? The far east was known for using gunpowder, so giving the Mongols firework-motars would make sense. Quite different than the steampunk/greek fire siege engines of Rome.

If you want to introduce magic (or magical monsters), consider a "godborn" class to indicate where they got their magical powers from. Anything from mythology - medusa, hydra, minotaur, etc. could be considered a "godborn".

While we're on that line of thinking, magical weapons don't have to be like D&D. We don't need a +5 flaming longsword. Heck, it would make more sense to just have all "magical" weapons be crafted out of Celestial Bronze, or Starmetal, or something similar. There's no pluses to the weapon itself - it is only "magical" in that it cuts through godborn defenses. Of course, that assumes we're using godborn in the first place...

(more to come)

[Silence]

Ok, I read through all the posts since my last one. Quite a feat, if I do say so myself.

I'm toying around with the system idea in my head. I think it'll be an evil crossbread of 3e, 4e, D20 modern, and maybe a few True20 concepts.

More to come on that.

I would like to say that gunpowder is a no-go, so the weapons are steam powered.

Steampunk stuff is expensive, so not extremely common on the battlefield.

[Shades of Gray]

How about: Spartans are proficient with all martial weapons sort of thing?

[Silence]

We'll work on the homeland modifiers after we have the system down. Hard to assign skill bonuses if you don't know if skills will exist.

[erikun]

I put forth the idea of making it d20 modern. Guess we should have a vote though. What ruleset, if any, should we base this off of?

d20 Fantasy (Standard DnD ruleset)
d20 Modern
New Ruleset

My vote goes to Modern, and feel free to put forward any other ideas as well.
It doesn't even have to be a d20 system. Then again, a game based on Rome, Monguls, and Vikings will probably focus on combat, so a skills-based system (similar to WoD) probably wouldn't work. I can see using an existing ruleset - d20 Modern looks like it could work - but a new ruleset could give the game its own feel. That, and we could experiment with a few different mechanics. Just a couple of ideas:

"Luck" rolls - Next to any d20 attack roll, roll a luck die (say, d8). Rolling a 8 on the luck roll is a critical, while rolling a 1 is an auto-miss. Various feats/powers/curses could change what is a critical/auto-miss. It gives more of a feeling that someone is directly affecting your chances, which could work well if we're emphasizing the Romans' Gods role in the world.

"Overflow" rolls - Simply put: rolling equal to or above the target AC is a hit (standard rules). Rolling 10 over the AC is a double-hit, and does twice the damage. Rolling 20 over is a triple-hit, etc. That is, you end up doing large amount of damage, not because you have a lot of +1 abilities, but because you hit the target very easily.

This changes a few things in the system. You're almost guaranteed to take damage, so sticking around in fights is highly discouraged. Most PCs/monsters have higher HP but less AC. High AC doesn't keep you from getting hit much, it just prevents you from taking large amounts of damage. Weaker fighters can likely hit monsters, they just aren't doing the same damage, both from less Str bonuses to damage, and from less Overflow.

I'm just throwing out ideas here, so feel free to expand or reject them as desired.

[BRC]

Ok, I read through all the posts since my last one. Quite a feat, if I do say so myself.

I'm toying around with the system idea in my head. I think it'll be an evil crossbread of 3e, 4e, D20 modern, and maybe a few True20 concepts.

More to come on that.

I would like to say that gunpowder is a no-go, so the weapons are steam powered.

Steampunk stuff is expensive, so not extremely common on the battlefield.
How about this, High-quality steampunk stuff is really expensive. Technicians can build steampunk stuff, however it requires almost constant maintenance to work. Because of this you could get, say, a steam gun, but only the technician could operate it very well, and if it broke down (which it would do quite often) Only the technician could fix it. At most he could hand it off to somebody else for a couple rounds at most, but generally no technician=no steam punk stuff.

I see it like this, let's say you have a flamethrower. Technically anybody is capable of using it, but the Technician would be most skilled with it, more likely to use it in a way that wouldn't lead to it exploding, and more likely to know when it is about to explode.

[Silence]

I'm thinking about making those as class features for the technician....

[AgentPaper]

There should be some more "reliable" tech that isn't as effective, but doesn't break down, or at least not as easily.

[BRC]

There should be some more "reliable" tech that isn't as effective, but doesn't break down, or at least not as easily.
Well, what I was going for with that was kind of like magic in DnD.

A wizard can cast a spell. You could get a magic item to cast that same spell for you, but it would be very expensive.

Similarly, a Technician can build and use a device, you could get a similar device that didn't require a technician, but it would be expensive.

[Silence]

Then again, I think someone who's not a technician should be able to at least pick up a feat that allows them to fix some basic stuff.

[BRC]

Then again, I think someone who's not a technician should be able to at least pick up a feat that allows them to fix some basic stuff.
Oh yeah, generally the more advanced and powerful the tech, the more important a technician is.
Maybe something like this, give every device a complexity rating. When it breaks down, you roll something and add the complexity rating to the result, this gives you the DC needed to fix it. A low complexity device, like a jammed crossbow (Complexity 1) is easy to fix. A high complexity device (Like an airship) is much more likely to break in a way that's difficult to fix.

[Silence]

Not necessarily.

How about each device has a set complexity rating (1-10), but when crafted is given a reliability rating. It takes more skill to make a reliable weapon, and the more complex it is, the harder it is to make. I think that a well made airship is a lot better than a poorly made crossbow.

[BRC]

Not necessarily.

How about each device has a set complexity rating (1-10), but when crafted is given a reliability rating. It takes more skill to make a reliable weapon, and the more complex it is, the harder it is to make. I think that a well made airship is a lot better than a poorly made crossbow.
Hmm, okay. So you want to buy low complexity high Reliability devices for your fighters and the like, while you can give the high complexity low reliability, but more powerful, devices to your technicians.


Edit: Here's an Idea, Heavy tech (the stuff romans specialize with) is built up of components, each of which includes it's own reliability and complexity ratings.


Like let's say you want a car with a signal lantern and a pressurized steam gun. You could say that as three components
Car: Complexity 4, reliability 5 (making up numbers here)
Signal Lantern: complexity 1, reliability 6 (it's a lantern, not much can go wrong)
Pressurized Steam Gun: Complexity 6, Reliability 3.

[Silence]

All depends on how much money you want. I think that, eventually, characters will gain reliability 10 versions of lower complexity stuff.

Reliability 10 never breaks.

[BRC]

All depends on how much money you want. I think that, eventually, characters will gain reliability 10 versions of lower complexity stuff.

Reliability 10 never breaks.
yeah, but at the same time the technician will be running around with reliability 4 versions of higher complexity (And therefore more powerful) Stuff. I think that works.

[Silence]

That sounds good.

[AgentPaper]

Reliability should scale so that 0 is the best. The reliability number should be the amount of dice you roll when you use that device, and if any of them are a 1 it fails. If you get more than one result of 1, it fails more. Technicians can get abilities that allow them to reduce the reliability score by some amount, like -1 at first level, and then another -1 every 5 levels. (so -5 at level 20) That way, anyone can use that reliability 6 super doom weapon, but the only person likely to use it for more than a single round is the team technician. They can probably get a single shot off before it breaks, but if a few of those dice come up as 1's, it could very well explode in their face. Let's say:

1 result of 1: device activates, then breaks, but can be fixed.
2 results of 1: Device activates, then breaks into scrap metal.
3 results of 1: Device doesn't activate, then breaks into scrap metal.
4+ results of 1: Device doesn't activate, and explodes.
For each additional 1 past the fourth, the explosion doubles in size and damage. (So 5 results is 2x as big, 6 results is 4x as big, 7 is 8x as big, 8 is 16x as big, and so on)

[alexeduardo]

um, I'm back!

I want a retooled d20 modern
Gunpowder is better put off
HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF ROMAN TRAINS
The Techinician=wizard idea works for me
Oh, and I guess we can drop the racial ability modifiers if you dont like them.



There, I think I have chosen a stance on every major issue

[MrEdwardNigma]

And from carthague, I hope

Carthague has elephants, obviously.

As for the airships, I think they should especially be used for things such as crossing mountainridges, like the Alps, while transport across the sea could be done with regular steampowered ships.

[AgentPaper]

The way I saw most airship type ships, they were basically normal steam-ships meant to go on the sea, but they have a huge balloon they can deploy, which fills with steam from the steam engine, and allows it to float for as long as the engine keeps running. Queue dramatic scene where fuel runs out or some baddie cuts a hole in the balloon, and the players are now on a ship plummeting to the earth.

Carthage would use a somewhat different method. For most ships they would use the "older" style listed, above, but for their new shiny battleships, they've got down a technique for using newer, more efficient steam engines, which just pump the steam straight down, at really high pressure, to keep them aloft. No weak balloon to get torn or shot at. They can also land in water, especially to take in more water for use in the boilers, since it takes a lot of water to run the thing. It has some way of avoiding the troubles that would be caused by saltwater.

I'm putting myself up to lead the vehicle creation stuff when we get to it. There won't be too many vehicles, of course, but there should be enough to warrant it's own thread.

[Destro_Yersul]

As for the airships, I think they should especially be used for things such as crossing mountainridges, like the Alps, while transport across the sea could be done with regular steampowered ships.

Agreed. If an airship was to fail over land, then down it comes and nothing blows up too much and they can recover pieces of it and possibly save passengers. If it fails over sea, then down it goes and sinks and materials are lost and everybody DIES. Except for me.

Steam powered boats, on the other hand, are much less likely to fail as catastrophically. It's only logical.

[AgentPaper]

The big ships can hold enough water to last for days without filling back up, and let's say they run off some new alchemy item or something. Very unstable liquid, but harnessed it can run the whole damned airship for a few thousand years. Not that the airship would last that long itself, but it's theoretically possible. (Kinda like a nuclear reactor on a ship) Of course, this means that in catastrophic failure, you have a big boom. Maybe not nuclear blast size, but enough to take out that city it's landing in. With that, the airship can stay aloft indefinitely with a good supply of water, which can be provided by smaller ships designed specifically for the purpose. Let's say it takes, oh, 1 of those ships working around the clock to keep the airship going. Of course, if you have more of them, which the airship carries with it, then you don't need them all to run that long. These ships are in the "old" style, so more reliable, and they can land on water.

[MrEdwardNigma]

Okay, concerning the Mongols. There was some discussion earlier on how they could work. I agree we shouldn't give them as much tech as we would give most of the other races. Instead they get excellent horse-riding and archery and some extra toughness. The idea of Mongols using heavy bows with ropes to bring down mechanical suits or such I like. However, in order to give them an edge and make them the truly badass power they were (without the technology), I would suggest dragons. Dragons would logically live in large wastelands. I can't imagine a dragon living in Rome, for example, and the countryside is a bit of a stretch too. Spain would be great. So would the empty plains the Mongols live in. I suggest perhaps giving the Mongols a very rare Dragon Rider. They would have extremely little of them. say they're in a battle with the Romans and the Romans have ten to twenty mechs in their army (for example), comparatively the Mongols would have one dragon.

Concerning the trains. I personally don't really see the Romans building rails throughout the lands either. I do see them building trains. On-road trains. Short, armoured vehicles which would easily tip or get stuck if used off-road, but would be ideal for on the Roman roads, which they have built throughout Europe and such. These "trains" would be steampowered, off course, and they would have to stop at regular intervals to load up on water. Hence the aquaducts. The Romans would have to be able to access water just about anywhere, so they would have to build these constructions to take it to various stations where the "trains" could stock up on it.

seeing how the Mongols are such a dangerous power, I would suggest giving the chinese a slight edge too. Yes, I'm talking about gunpowder, but not about guns! No, they would basically use rockets. Not much more than fireworks, but still enough of an edge to keep out the Mongols in combination with the Chinese wall.

[Eita]

The way I saw most airship type ships, they were basically normal steam-ships meant to go on the sea, but they have a huge balloon they can deploy, which fills with steam from the steam engine, and allows it to float for as long as the engine keeps running. Queue dramatic scene where fuel runs out or some baddie cuts a hole in the balloon, and the players are now on a ship plummeting to the earth.

Carthage would use a somewhat different method. For most ships they would use the "older" style listed, above, but for their new shiny battleships, they've got down a technique for using newer, more efficient steam engines, which just pump the steam straight down, at really high pressure, to keep them aloft. No weak balloon to get torn or shot at. They can also land in water, especially to take in more water for use in the boilers, since it takes a lot of water to run the thing. It has some way of avoiding the troubles that would be caused by saltwater.

I'm putting myself up to lead the vehicle creation stuff when we get to it. There won't be too many vehicles, of course, but there should be enough to warrant it's own thread.

The water is boiled and the salt then extracted and sent to Carthage. This salt would have two purposes: 1: To act as preservatives for Carthaginian food 2: To be sent to Rome as a reminder that what happened to Carthage (fields sown with salt) could very well happen to them. Refrigeration technology of course would be bad. If it even existed. Steam =/= cold.

The Chinese should have a comparative steam-punk to Rome, but for an equal power output, they would need something bigger and bulkier. Such things would really only be practical when used as defensive fortifications, such as on the Great Wall.

The Romans making railroads fits perfectly in with the Roman background, and the only reason the real-world Romans didn't build them was because they didn't have them. If they had trains, it makes sense to use them.

[AgentPaper]

I like the idea of romans having trains better than them having cars...

[BRC]

I like the idea of romans having trains better than them having cars...
Yeah. I've decided to change the Roman cultural class from Steam Technician to Appian Engineer. The Idea being that they were trained at the Roman train terminal/academy to work on the Appian Railway, which carries over to a general specialization with heavy machinery.

[alexeduardo]

aye,big bad roman trains would be awesome.

Concerning the mongols, I say we give them powerful, beastly allies, but not nessesairly dragons. There are like, what?, six 3.5 monster manuals? I think we can find somethin we can use o at least on of 'em

[BRC]

aye,big bad roman trains would be awesome.

Concerning the mongols, I say we give them powerful, beastly allies, but not nessesairly dragons. There are like, what?, six 3.5 monster manuals? I think we can find somethin we can use o at least on of 'em
I say we give the Mongol's Dragons, but not many of them. The Dragon's are too proud to be ridden by anybody below the rank of Warlord.

[wakazashi.juice]

I like the setting, but as for the rules...

May I suggest not d20 system? Maybe dice pools or even O.R.E. (/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORE)?

[Silence]

Link doesn't work.

[alexeduardo]

Aw, c'mon guys! dragons? cant we think of something, I don't know, mongolier?

[Silence]

Possibly their own creature.... We could make something up.

[MrEdwardNigma]

Aw, c'mon guys! dragons? cant we think of something, I don't know, mongolier?
It's steampunk with dragons. I can't think of another occasion when we've even used them, and it seems to fit. Besides, dragons are still "mongolier" than motorcycles :smalltongue:

[BRC]

It's steampunk with dragons. I can't think of another occasion when we've even used them, and it seems to fit. Besides, dragons are still "mongolier" than motorcycles :smalltongue:
How about this, there are Dragons in Mongolia (Ridden only by the Khan, his warlords, and certain mongolians who have impressed a dragon enough, though this last feat is very very rare), Spain (They refuse to serve the roman empire and are actively hunted) and Scandinavia (They are only ridden by, and occasionally work with or act as Thanes and Viking warchiefs)

[Silence]

That sounds good. I'm assuming we're going with the D&Dish standpoint on dragons. Some are evil, some are good, they're all different colors, and all are intelligent.

[MrEdwardNigma]

That sounds good. I'm assuming we're going with the D&Dish standpoint on dragons. Some are evil, some are good, they're all different colors, and all are intelligent.
I'd personally go with the more realistic approach. Different colours is fine, but only moderate intelligence and such.

[Silence]

By "moderate intelligence", you mean what?

Put them on a human IQ number.

[alexeduardo]

Horse smart.

I agree on making an all new mongol creature

[Viruzzo]

You could distinguish between different draconic species. For the Mongols since they are historically famous as cavaliers and mounted archers, they may have some non-intelligent (2 int on the D&D scale) small (one or two riders max) flying drakes that are used as mounts. They would be fairly weak compared to classic D&D dragons, maybe have a small breath capability but nothing exceptional. They would be savage and rebellious, the kind of beast that can only be domesticated by a civilization that is based on mounted warfare.

Imagine hundreds of mongol riders coming to invade your city. Now imagine them coming from the sky.

Optionally, their drakes could be either non-flying or only able to fly for very short distances and rarely.

Another idea: they ride Shai-Hulud!

[alexeduardo]

Imagine hundreds of mongol riders coming to invade your city. Now imagine them coming from the sky.

Now imagine a Carthaguiniean Airship suddenly blocking the way, and a party of heroes coming up from it's hull with the athenean death ray

[MrEdwardNigma]

Horse smart.
Exactly. I'd make the dragons horse smart. Particularly smart horse smart, perhaps. The kind of horse that does tricks.

As for the hundreds of Mongols coming from the sky, the whole point of them having dragons was that they would only have very little of them, right? Not hundreds!

[Viruzzo]

As for the hundreds of Mongols coming from the sky, the whole point of them having dragons was that they would only have very little of them, right? Not hundreds!
That just depends on how large and powerful you make them. Read my suggestion (which btw contains "slightly more intelligent animal").

[BRC]

How about this, there are Drakes (Horse smart dragons) as well as intelligent dragons. The Mongols have both, however only the Khan's personal horde are all mounted on Drakes. Warlords may have a personal drake-mounted guard, but for the most part they all ride on horseback. Dragons serve as mounts and advisors for the Khan and his warlords.

The Norse hunt drakes, as they don't know how to tame them, but ally with Dragons who aid the Thanes and occasionally rule clans themselves.

The spanish dragons have all been wiped out by the romans, however wild drakes still roam the area, and the romans will pay well for drake heads.

All in all, true Dragons are very very rare.




Another Idea, Dragons are a subspecies of Drake. Maybe one out of a hundred Drakes will be born a fully intelligent Dragon who may lead a flight of drakes, or may ally with humans.

[MrEdwardNigma]

^ Very nice, I like it.

[alexeduardo]

me too. 1up

[Silence]

I like the drake idea. How about this.

True dragons = collosal.

Drakes = adults are the size of horses.

[alexeduardo]

yay! me likes silence's ideas!

[Silence]

Sweet.

Ok, so here are my ideas for the system, which will be an evil crossbread between 3e an 4e.

Races: More like 3e than 4e. This has already been discussed, mostly.

Classes: An evil crossbreed. HP, healing surges, and skills will work like 4e, but the rest is like 3e. No one really wants to write up 250 different powers.

Skills: As said before, more like 4e.

Feats: There was a difference?

Weapons and armor: Pure 3e.

Combat: More like 4e.

Spells: Ok, so here's how the "spell system will work". Technicians and druids will have many abilities and devices that will only work for them. Those will serve as spells.

This is, of course, a very rough sketch, but I'm just throwing stuff out for a response.

[alexeduardo]

meh...I say we ditch the 4e stuff

[Silence]

Why so?

Message too short

[alexeduardo]

Why so?



I dont know, I just dont like it

[Silence]

...why don't you like it?

[MrEdwardNigma]

...why don't you like it?
He doesn't know! Sheesh.
Perhaps you should just put this to a vote, if it's really an issue, but I don't know if anyone else really minds 4e.

[Silence]

Ok, then. Does anyone here not like the 4e concepts enough to get rid of them?

[alexeduardo]

Ok, then. Does anyone here not like the 4e concepts enough to get rid of them?

meh...If it'll make the setting unique then I guess it's woth it

[Silence]

The engine of the game has no effect on the setting, really. It's more that I like the way those concepts work.

[alexeduardo]

The engine of the game has no effect on the setting, really. It's more that I like the way those concepts work.

but it'll make it unique and different from anything before it!

[Silence]

Yes it will, but I don't think the combination of 2 systems is really the type of gimmick we want.

[alexeduardo]

Yes it will, but I don't think the combination of 2 systems is really the type of gimmick we want.

then let's put blue furry aliens in charge of the mengol hordes! that's a gimmick!

[Silence]

then let's put blue furry aliens in charge of the mengol hordes! that's a gimmick!

.....No. Message too short.

[alexeduardo]

.....No. Message too short.

oh well, seems as if I'm gonna have to make my own setting then...

[Silence]

oh well, seems as if I'm gonna have to make my own setting then...

Tell me you're being sarcastic.

[alexeduardo]

Tell me you're being sarcastic.

Nay!

coming soon to a thread near you:

Fuzzy Tales, the music-based rpg!
based upon a book by douglas admas

[thevorpalbunny]

*Joins, even though he hasn't read the entire thread*
Mongols on mini-dragons is cool.
As are Greek steam golems and a Roman emperor who is kept alive by some unspecified means, but in a manner reminiscent of the Emperor in Warhammer 40k.
4e is not so cool, but Steampunk Rome in the age of Belisarius and Justinian is awesome enough to overwhelm it.

I'd have t say that with the amount of things you're taking from 4e it's probably not worth it. Also, the skill system is one of the major flaws of 4e as compared to 3.5e. It has no benefits at all and significant losses. If you're going to take bits and pieces, ditch the 4e skill system.

[AgentPaper]

No, we are NOT turning the Roman Empire into the Imperium. I would never live that down. Plenty of political intrigue going on in rome. Emperor could change and cause change in the empire. Probably only a single emperor since the steampunk started, depending on how long ago that was. Still, it's perfectly open for a GM to have plots including intrigue in Rome itself, which would most definitely involve the emperor at some point. Having him a vegetable that everyone follows blindly just wouldn't work at all.

[thevorpalbunny]

I don't actually know much about Warhammer, I just heard a thing about a undying emperor in a big box and stuff from some tabletop miniatures guys.
Also, who else here has read the Belisarius series?

[BRC]

No, we are NOT turning the Roman Empire into the Imperium. I would never live that down. Plenty of political intrigue going on in rome. Emperor could change and cause change in the empire. Probably only a single emperor since the steampunk started, depending on how long ago that was. Still, it's perfectly open for a GM to have plots including intrigue in Rome itself, which would most definitely involve the emperor at some point. Having him a vegetable that everyone follows blindly just wouldn't work at all.
How about this, The Emperor isn't Immortal, but every time a new emperor takes over, they use plastic surgery to sculpt their face to be identical to the previous emperor, and the Emperor takes upon the name "Caesar". Therefore though Rome has had many emperors, they have all looked the same, and they have all be named Caesar, so the Emperor appears immortal.

[thevorpalbunny]

Blech. No me likey.

How about this: A cult of about 20-30 brainwashed druids and Athenians have as their sole life's purpose maintaining the Emperor's armor. This is a huge suit which is essentially a Giant Robot (TM) powered by steam and run by a mix of oil and blood. The Emperor himself has very little organic flesh remaining, most of it having been replaced by mechanical parts as it wore out or rejected the mix. The cult's purpose is to keep the armor running and keep the emperor sufficiently dosed with chemicals to keep his body from rejecting the armor and dying. They are fanatical beyond belief to prevent anyone from sabotaging him.

Gunpowder: who has it? It's not a huge step to make from liquid (Greek) fire to solid fire (gunpowder). Perhaps this is what China does really well? They've brought rockets from pretty-colors status to weapons grade, and possibly medieval-level cannons?
They might also have Chinese-style dragons, which are not much good at fighting but can fly and swim like nobody's business.

Alternatively, if you don't like gunpowder being involved at all, make China do a little of everything. They have some dragons, some Mongol mercenaries, they have some power armor, a couple railways, some Taoist alchemists, some steam-powered boat-like airships ("Dragon Boats", of course), etc. They're dabblers, but because they're unfocused they haven't been able to attack anyone.

[MrEdwardNigma]

Gunpowder: who has it? It's not a huge step to make from liquid (Greek) fire to solid fire (gunpowder). Perhaps this is what China does really well? They've brought rockets from pretty-colors status to weapons grade, and possibly medieval-level cannons?
They might also have Chinese-style dragons, which are not much good at fighting but can fly and swim like nobody's business.

We've been over this, actually. I think we decided that gunpowder per se wouldn't fit in the setting, but they were allowed to have rockets (big fireworks, essentially) and such. Other than that they also have the chinese wall.

As for BRC's idea, for once I don't like it. I kind of like the idea of someone like Caesar having taken over power in Rome to become the Emperor and having found away to keep alive much longer in some sort of steam armour (which also happens to hideously deform him). I say "much longer", not indefinitely, as the Emperor might be nearing his end. Perhaps there's even a lot of political turmoil, plotting and scheming about this in Rome? While the Emperor rules his legions beyond the borders and throughout the Empire, the very citizens of Rome are plotting against him!

[AgentPaper]

That could work. But I would want more of a half-warsuit-half-life-support type machine that he uses. It would make him near unstoppable in combat. And nobody worry about the mechanics of all this yet. We still need to decide what system we want to use for this game, so it's too early to start statting stuff out.

[MrEdwardNigma]

That could work. But I would want more of a half-warsuit-half-life-support type machine that he uses. It would make him near unstoppable in combat.
Yes, I was imagining that too for my version of the Emperor.

[YPU]

For te system, may i sugest we use something like the talent trees that modern and starwars have? Not only does it make for more freedom in character creation its also very helpful for the making of the classes, where everybody could work on their own talent line.

The way you describe the personal technology sounds really like the steamworks (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=55288)system, actually it sounds just like that system works. I own it so we could use it for inspiration.

[puppyavenger]

after reading over this, I must say, looks good.
A few questions, what about the celts? Are the chinese conquered by the Mongols? what are the japanese doing? how Territory have the Mongols captured?

[Silence]

after reading over this, I must say, looks good.
A few questions, what about the celts? Are the chinese conquered by the Mongols? what are the japanese doing? how Territory have the Mongols captured?

Chinese and Japanese are a little far away...

[BRC]

Yes, I was imagining that too for my version of the Emperor.
Hrmm, okay, so the current emperor is per mentally encased in powered armor/ life support and guarded by power-armored praetorians. He should still go by the title "Caesar" though.

Hmm, how about the process made him deformed, but he always wears a mask.

[Silence]

Hrmm, okay, so the current emperor is per mentally encased in powered armor/ life support and guarded by power-armored praetorians. He should still go by the title "Caesar" though.

Hmm, how about the process made him deformed, but he always wears a mask.

Hmmmmm..... It's a good idea. Would add some great flavor.

[Zeta Kai]

That could work. But I would want more of a half-warsuit-half-life-support type machine that he uses. It would make him near unstoppable in combat. And nobody worry about the mechanics of all this yet. We still need to decide what system we want to use for this game, so it's too early to start statting stuff out.


Hrmm, okay, so the current emperor is per mentally encased in powered armor/ life support and guarded by power-armored praetorians. He should still go by the title "Caesar" though.

Hmm, how about the process made him deformed, but he always wears a mask.

Am I the only one who thinks of Steampunk Vader (http://blog.wired.com/tableofmalcontents/images/lordvader.jpg) when I read this?

Not that it's a bad idea...

[Silence]

That image = win.

[alexeduardo]

That image = win.

all the way.

But why not make the japanese? as far as I know, known history started with chinese settlers some years after rome, we could say that they were a steampunk civilization that outwar-ed itself.

[Silence]

Well, I guess there's nothing wrong with talking about what the Chinese have, but I think they'll be too far away from events to matter...

[thevorpalbunny]

Nowhere is too far away to matter. If we determined that China had some kind of strong enmity for Rome, we could have Carthage have a strong, long-standing alliance with them. And this wouldn't be an Axis-type dealie where they agree to fight the same people and divide up the world between them, they'd be actively supporting each other.

Or to summarize using a snowclone (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSnowclo ne&ei=vuaPSL6EIpTyeeiTxZsH&usg=AFQjCNEk2E9UAK8CvD9wA4N7RpiWv-Bwjg&sig2=-IoJ8z9RNNL0s_qIloawHA): China affecting my Steampunk Rome?! It's more likely than you think.

[MrEdwardNigma]

Hrmm, okay, so the current emperor is per mentally encased in powered armor/ life support and guarded by power-armored praetorians. He should still go by the title "Caesar" though.

Hmm, how about the process made him deformed, but he always wears a mask.



As for BRC's idea, for once I don't like it. I kind of like the idea of someone like Caesar having taken over power in Rome to become the Emperor and having found away to keep alive much longer in some sort of steam armour (which also happens to hideously deform him).

As always,I have thought of everything. :smallamused:
Unless the mask is the new part, but really, it's to be expected for his suit to have a mask. One would only have to aim for the head to kill him otherwise after all.

[Silence]

Maybe he doesn't have a suit, but is half steam parts?

[MrEdwardNigma]

Maybe he doesn't have a suit, but is half steam parts?
Nah, that would make him a zombie, or too close to one anyways.

[alexeduardo]

Nah, that would make him a zombie, or too close to one anyways.

and we don't want that because...?

[thevorpalbunny]

Because we decided zombies were a bad idea.

[MrEdwardNigma]

Because we decided zombies were a bad idea.
No, we decided zombies were a great idea, just not the mass produced ones. Undead were fine, as long as they were rare abominations with pipes shoved in. Hence why the Caesar would be too similar to one for it not to become weird.

[alexeduardo]

yes, riddler, but I want it to be wierd!

[thevorpalbunny]

Reading back over the zombie discussion, it pretty much ended on things that were called zombies but were basically flesh golems/machines wearing dead bodies for clothes. I don't really like the name "zombie" for that kind of thing. The name "zombie," to me, implies mass-produced shambling bodies, not something individually crafted as that would have to be. And we definitely nixed shambling hordes.

So what I'm saying is, if we're going to have zombies we should have zombies, not something else with the same name. Right now, we don't have zombies.

[Silence]

Here's a idea:

We could change the whole zombie combat to a more elite model. Let's say instead of a shabling mindless mess, you have an exceptionally strong, smart, and trained human improved by the steampunk parts, armed with the best weapons and armor.

[thevorpalbunny]

I like the concept as it stands, I just think it isn't a zombie and should get a different name. Some brainstorming: Steamblood? Steamcorpse? Steamrisen? Craftrisen? Dead Machine? Dead Walker? Vulcan's Risen?

[alexeduardo]

Here's a idea:

We could change the whole zombie combat to a more elite model. Let's say instead of a shabling mindless mess, you have an exceptionally strong, smart, and trained human improved by the steampunk parts, armed with the best weapons and armor.

Like Frankenstein('s creature)!

[MrEdwardNigma]

Reading back over the zombie discussion, it pretty much ended on things that were called zombies but were basically flesh golems/machines wearing dead bodies for clothes. I don't really like the name "zombie" for that kind of thing. The name "zombie," to me, implies mass-produced shambling bodies, not something individually crafted as that would have to be. And we definitely nixed shambling hordes.

So what I'm saying is, if we're going to have zombies we should have zombies, not something else with the same name. Right now, we don't have zombies.

Oh, yes, let's call them something different, because that's going to change the fact that they're zombies!
I should off course have known you wouldn't call these zombies zombies, and then naturally I would have seen plainly you were right: we don't have zombies, just a bunch of zombies we're not going to call zombies! Silly me not to think of that. :smallwink:

Anyways, I don't think we should change the model. We already agreed upon these things and there's no need to alter them now. Besides, making them human with thoughts and such puts them way too close to being humans with a mech suit. I'm okay with changing their name though. Steamrisen sounds good.

[Silence]

Let's call them something else.

I like "Steamrisen".

[alexeduardo]

how about Steamrisen?

[Silence]

That's what I just said....

[Destro_Yersul]

I believe that was the point.

And I like it too.

[AgentPaper]

I like Abominations. It's pretty descriptive, and sounds powerful and rare.

Steamrisen isn't bad, though.

[Silence]

"Steam abominations"?

[BRC]

"Steam abominations"?
"Steamrisen" is much better.

[Silence]

"Steamrisen" it is.

Next subject: rules!

[alexeduardo]

3.5, with constant cameos by cervantes from soul calibur.
why not? we could make him a major npc

[Silence]

Sould Calibur? There's a RP system for that?

Ok, so I'm going to do a vote. I'll open the thread in a little bit.

Edit: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4633982#post4633982

[Eita]

You know, I'm just a bit baffled as to why there was an argument over how the Emperor was kept alive since I posted an idea for that on page four. And then you guys agreed to go with that idea but add a mask, and I find that intolerable. The only mask should be the Mask