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Moofin Bard
2008-07-27, 02:23 PM
So my friends and I had an evil campaign going. I was an evil bard. Lame I know but at least no one wanted to kill me. He put us up against a good guy at the end of the day and it would have been nearly impossible for us to defeat him without magic. But our spell casters had run out of good spells. So we 'find' an intelligent necklace on the ground. It has silent image spells and stuff we can use. It likes my female bard best. But the command phrase was "I can't control my horny level." So every time we wanted to use it, we had to say that.

Dragor
2008-07-27, 02:29 PM
Ouch. That just seems a bit harsh and immature. I can't talk, though, I've been doing some utter sh(indigs) DM'ing at the moment. Nothing like that, though.

My former DM constantly, without fail, send us into hopeless situations, and our characters, naturally, would get the stuffing knocked out of them. But lo, here comes the mysterious stranger to save the day!.... again. It was annoying to say the least, but made even more annoying by the fact the heroic 'saviours' were almost carbon copies. Elven Ranger duel wielding who was rude and cracked bad jokes. Really bad jokes.

EndlessWrath
2008-07-27, 02:30 PM
hahaha.

I'm currently in a game...where we're all "soldiers" i guess would be the best word. If you leave the village, you got hunter-ninjas on your @$$ asap...

So his DMPC (yes...its a PC for a dm) with a few other players have left the village... no hunters...EVER. If i were to leave the village=me rolling up new guy.

They've already taken over 5 countries at this point.. And the only reason I'm not with them is because the DM needs "even sides"...even if it doesn't make sense...

also I gotta say the endless "Rocks fall everyone roll up a new character" threat is getting really old

Totally Guy
2008-07-27, 03:17 PM
I'm going to DM next. I met with a couple of the players yesterday to make characters. One based his off a miniature, the other I got to draw a picture. So I just about know what they look like.

So, as we speak, in preparation to be really annoying I'm making a couple of finger puppets to represent their characters in diplomacy and session recaps.

Edit:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/macdonnell/Puppets.jpg

As yet unamed Eladrin Warlord and Tiefling Warlock

Dragor
2008-07-27, 03:26 PM
So, as we speak, in preparation to be really annoying I'm making a couple of finger puppets to represent their characters in diplomacy and session recaps.

Glug, you freaking win.

I just remembered how I just embarassed everyone at our last session by making Spiretop Drake impressions just as our hosts dear mother walked in. Whoops!

Since they're so ickle and cute, though, it was more like 'nip nip nip!' than 'raaaaaaaaawr.' The Elven Ranger wanted one as a pet after he asked about their appearance. There's now roughly five eggs and a tiddl'un living in his backpack now.

DMfromTheAbyss
2008-07-27, 03:35 PM
I had a DM once who would go out of his way to make "fights even". Which doesn't sound bad until you saw how he'd do it... He'd basically have the Badguys inexplicably have identical stats to the good guys. (like ok your fighting 5 goblins you have 5 PC's the goblins have identical stats to the PC's... which would get old after a batch or two of goblins)

For battles you'd come up with a strategy that should pit a few of your guys against 1 of theirs (trap/ambush/smart manuvering) and boom there's as many of them as there is of you. You can't beat an enemy so you go out and leave it till your higher in level... guess what the BBEG goes up levels as fast or faster than you...

To make matters worse anytime you'd try a smart tactic there would be a billion reasons why "That would never work!". Fine OK I get that... but then seeing later in that same session precisely that tactic being employed by an NPC to wonderful results... and if this was pointed out it would be "You never tried anything like that did you? I don't know what your talking about."

RRR!!! just remembering that game makes my blood boil...

happyturtle
2008-07-27, 04:06 PM
1. Making you track every single bit of inventory. I had an archer specialist. I rolled a one. The DM said that my bowstring broke and if I didn't have a spare written on my character sheet, then I couldn't fix it. Because apparently Happyturtle is supposed to know as much about archery as an actual archer and write all that crap down.

2. Giving you a BBEG that is way way too powerful for the PCs and no clues given as to how to go about things. We're talking disparity about the level of "You and your five friends need to take over the government of Great Britain and depose the Queen."

3. Coming up with brilliant campaign hooks and getting everyone excited, then three or four sessions later, he's thought of something new and decides to drop the current game and do the new one instead. And the new one sounds so cool that everyone gets excited and goes along with it. And the next one. And the next one. Because apparently we are all morons.

arguskos
2008-07-27, 04:10 PM
When the DM encourages you to make deep, involved, complex characters and ask for backgrounds, and all that jazz, and then just runs a dungeon crawl. For 13 sessions. That ends when we all get pissed off, screw his dungeon, and go off and RP on our own by involving ourselves in the politics of the near-by metropolis, leading him to have the BBEG come and slaughter us all for not following the crawl to the end. Oh, and yelling at us when we RP in combat, cause it "detracts from the battle." All I can say is.... grrrrr. ANGRY PLAYERS ARE ANGRY. :smallfurious:

-argus

Pinnacle
2008-07-27, 04:11 PM
1. Making you track every single bit of inventory. I had an archer specialist. I rolled a one. The DM said that my bowstring broke and if I didn't have a spare written on my character sheet, then I couldn't fix it. Because apparently Happyturtle is supposed to know as much about archery as an actual archer and write all that crap down.

I've run archery ranges at two different summer camps, where little kids who don't know what they're doing shoot the bows all day.

The first time I ever heard anything about a bowstring snapping was reading on a message board about a DM using "realistic" rules.

So no, actually, you had to know things that real archers know probably won't be a problem, let alone one out of every 20 shots. :smallamused:

happyturtle
2008-07-27, 04:21 PM
I've run archery ranges at two different summer camps, where little kids who don't know what they're doing shoot the bows all day.

The first time I ever heard anything about a bowstring snapping was reading on a message board about a DM using "realistic" rules.

So no, actually, you had to know things that real archers know probably won't be a problem, let alone one out of every 20 shots. :smallamused:

But of course if it hadn't happened, I probably wouldn't remember the game today, and instead, I still get to enjoy snarking about it more than 5 years later. :smallbiggrin:

Crow T. Robot
2008-07-27, 04:38 PM
A GM I know is fantastic in non combat rolls. He generouly rewards roleplaying, in charater conversations and so on.

The problem is with combat. D&D mainly. To up the "Challenge" he'll ignore damage, double hit points during a fight, heal guys over and over for no reason. Plays resorted to obnoxious munchkining as a survival tactic. Which led to a battle where an ancient red dragon was nuked in one turn.

ColonelFuster
2008-07-27, 04:56 PM
I had a wonderful DM named Greyson. My favorite DM, ever, period. But, he played Lawful Good people Lawful Stupid.
Oh, and: he thought monks were overpowered.

Silence
2008-07-27, 04:58 PM
I had a DM that used a pre-made adventure. Baaaaaaad idea. See, he likes the bosses tough. And he was too lazy to make the current boss tougher, so just tripled the HP, added SR20, DR10, hastened it, and made it do extra damage. Lots of extra damage. And he added 5 to the AC, because 18 is "too easy."

Yea.... it raped our asses.


Player: "Ok, so let's get this straight. The rogue did a sneak attack for 20 damage, the fighter critted for 30, the wizard and sorcerer's fireballs both hit, doing 30 a pop, and the cleric just healed the whole party from 7 collective HP. And we're on the 8th round of combat. How does the monster look."

GM: "Eh, it looks a little dazed. It casts darkness, entangle, and attacks three of you."

Player: "I don't think he can do that."

GM: "Yes he can."

Player: "....f--- you."

Crow
2008-07-27, 05:13 PM
So my friends and I had an evil campaign going. I was an evil bard. Lame I know but at least no one wanted to kill me. He put us up against a good guy at the end of the day and it would have been nearly impossible for us to defeat him without magic. But our spell casters had run out of good spells. So we 'find' an intelligent necklace on the ground. It has silent image spells and stuff we can use. It likes my female bard best. But the command phrase was "I can't control my horny level." So every time we wanted to use it, we had to say that.

...ummmm....creepy.

Syne
2008-07-27, 05:19 PM
So my friends and I had an evil campaign going. I was an evil bard. Lame I know but at least no one wanted to kill me. He put us up against a good guy at the end of the day and it would have been nearly impossible for us to defeat him without magic. But our spell casters had run out of good spells. So we 'find' an intelligent necklace on the ground. It has silent image spells and stuff we can use. It likes my female bard best. But the command phrase was "I can't control my horny level." So every time we wanted to use it, we had to say that.

Ha! I like this guy already! Though it might not be as funny the 50th time.

One of the things I hate is when the DM manhandles my character. I once played a halfling and he went about making NPCs pick me up and so on.
And I do mean once. I stopped playing small races after that.

Ashtar
2008-07-27, 05:32 PM
Well I don't know if it's really hate... but while planeswalking we came across a planar city called Harmony. It's currency was music. You could buy more or less anything you wanted in the city, but to do so, you had to sing.
Each other player (and the DM) assigned a grade and your "available cash" was the multiple of these numbers.

Was a pretty crazy session, ended up with a musical fight between the city guards using Italian Opera singing attacks and the players desperately trying to fight back with Pop music.

Hey, it's the plains, everything goes! Long live Planescape.

OverWilliam
2008-07-27, 06:32 PM
Well I don't know if it's really hate... but while planeswalking we came across a planar city called Harmony. It's currency was music. You could buy more or less anything you wanted in the city, but to do so, you had to sing.
Each other player (and the DM) assigned a grade and your "available cash" was the multiple of these numbers.

Was a pretty crazy session, ended up with a musical fight between the city guards using Italian Opera singing attacks and the players desperately trying to fight back with Pop music.

Hey, it's the plains, everything goes! Long live Planescape.

This is... bad? :smallconfused: That sounds absolutely awesome! :smallbiggrin:

Deepblue706
2008-07-27, 06:37 PM
This one time, my DM sent me and the rest of the party up against some crazy gish guy (and some hirelings). He wasn't evil, he just didn't like us. Apparently, he revealed he was a Spellsword, which everyone in the party just kinda figured wasn't much of a challenge.

So, pretty much everyone scoffs, and gets ready to slaughter him. The Wizard is flying, ready to use some crazy control spells. The Cleric powers up. I, the Rogue, turn invisible because I don't like being a target. And, the Fighter says "hah, watch this!" as he does his Shock Trooper charge.

Apparently, the Spellsword's feat selection had no offensive options. Just defensive. He had Elusive Target. The Fighter basically does nothing (negate power attack).

His retort? A normal attack. He doesn't even have Power Attack. It is a plain, simple, boring attack. Plus a spell, channelled into it. That spell? Plane Shift.

Bill wasn't amused.

valadil
2008-07-27, 08:33 PM
The worst was a GM who would take calls from his girlfriend mid game. They lasted an hour bare minimum and he just ditched the group. Eventually we started unplugging his phone.

I hate DMPCs.

I hate adversarial GMs who run a GM vs PCs game.

I hate GMs who tell you their game will be an open ended sandbox and then present you with a game that, while not railroaded, branches into a couple choices, only one of which is playable.

EndlessWrath
2008-07-27, 08:45 PM
The worst was a GM who would take calls from his girlfriend mid game. They lasted an hour bare minimum and he just ditched the group. Eventually we started unplugging his phone.

ugh especially when he and his girlfriend are in a fight/break-up/make-up/drama session... and when nobody likes the girlfriend anyways.... -_-
This is why we have a "co-DM" now-a-days


I hate DMPCs.
He has this too -_-

its rather annoying.

Oh, another one that really gets me... No conflict DM.

I have a guy, and he hates demons...quite simple... he'll attack a demon if he sees one due to his long crazy history. Guess what? a new player joined and guess what he is? a demon! :smallbiggrin:

so whats my next action? attack the demon of course... the next thing that happens...is my spiritual crazy 30th level NPC captain teleports right in front of me and phase-hands grabs my heart... "If you continue attack him, I take this out"....

This didn't happen cause the Captain agreed with my Point of View... or disagreed with it... He actually hates the Demon... but unfortunately... our wonderful dm doesn't like the complications of Inner party conflict even if he encourages us to continue role-playing...:smallmad:

SoD
2008-07-27, 08:48 PM
Being relatively new to DnD (hitting up maybe...3 yearsish), I've only had one DM (PbP not counting). The only problem was...well, I've been writing my own campaign, which is starting soon (8th-9th). I was asked:

"So how much have you got written?"
"Just a bit, I've only got it up to 6th level-ish, but it's still being written. I'll be writing it for a long time."
"But we're still on?"
"Yeah, just don't go above 6th level in the first session."
"Well, at least it's not going to be a make-it-up-on-the-spot campaign like the last one."


He was disorganised, to the point of "What? I was DMing tonight?" "Sorry, forgot it was on." "You're all there? Yeah...I'm in Queensland at the moment." "I'll be a bit late." "Right, I'm here, we ready to start? Good...oh, wait...I left all my stuff at home..." a bit annoying, but we get there in the end.

John Campbell
2008-07-27, 09:06 PM
I've run archery ranges at two different summer camps, where little kids who don't know what they're doing shoot the bows all day.

The first time I ever heard anything about a bowstring snapping was reading on a message board about a DM using "realistic" rules.

So no, actually, you had to know things that real archers know probably won't be a problem, let alone one out of every 20 shots. :smallamused:

I've actually had it happen to me. Cheesy fiberglass 35# reflex longbow... the string nocks were kind of sharp-cornered, and, being fiberglass, didn't wear smooth. Instead, it gradually chewed through the string until one day I pulled it, and when I released, the upper loop snapped. Stung my cheek as the string came free. I've since filed the edges of the string nocks round so it won't happen again.

But that's once in... oh, 20 years or more of archery. And it took a whole lot more than 20 shots with that bow to break the string. I shot it hundreds and hundreds of times between having that string put on and having it break.


Er, back on topic:

Two words: DMPCs.

(Yes, that's two words. I'm just not allowed to use the other word on this forum.)

Hal
2008-07-27, 09:15 PM
I don't mind when a GM does a little railroading, provided he's willing to make it fun. If, however, that train leads off a cliff and he's not willing to add a soft landing on the end, that's when I get pissed.

In my last game, I played a paladin. Our GM presented to us, early on, a group of mob-like characters who wandered the marketplace of Saltmarsh (DMG2) and shook-down the shop keepers. It was clear we were supposed to confront them eventually, although early on they were too strong.

One week, we had a new player join who was playing a street performer/beggar. As his "introduction" to the party, we were witness to the mob trying to extort more money out of him than he could afford.

Silly me, I assumed our GM wanted us to do some RPing. So me, noble paladin that I am, step up and tell the mob to go fornicate themselves and leave the beggar alone. Which resulted an hour later in the entire mob showing up and threatening to kill me. To cap this already too long story, I get pounded into a fine red mist by an NPC designed to be a monster in melee combat. When my GM saw the look of betrayal on my face, he just said, "Hey, you didn't have to challenge the mob."

Okay GM, no more Sopranos for you.

Glyde
2008-07-27, 10:13 PM
CR inappropriate encounters.

With the excuse being a plethora of overpowered DMPCs that were either there all along, or suddenly show up to save the day. Plan ahead people D:

nobodylovesyou4
2008-07-27, 10:31 PM
i have one dm who always says, "im gonna dm this campaign, make a char!" and then doesnt. i have 5 characters that ill never use because of him.

another dm (dont get me wrong, is an amazing dm) often gives us a ton of backstory on the world, when most of the party just wants to kill monsters and get loot. i guess its just a case of right DM, wrong party.

Prplcheez
2008-07-27, 10:49 PM
A few years ago, our DM created a basic cave dungeon with a 20x20 room and 3 paths branching from there, all of them sloping downwards into the ground. We had 5 people, the cleric and the wizard going down one path, the rogue (the DM's PC [Yes, our group always has DM PC's, and they work out relatively well]) going down the middle path, me (the Paladin) going down the last path. Our sorcerer decided to stay behind and watch the entrance to the cave, to make sure we didn't get ambushed.

After 3 rounds or so, a barely visible force field type thing covered the entrance to the cave. The sorcerer, being a complete idiot, decided to take his usual approach to things and toss rocks at the force field. The GM decided that it was a reflective force field and bounced all of the rocks thrown back at the sorcerer, killing him over the course of 3 rounds.

The cleric, wizard, and I all encountered 30 or so monsters and 5+ traps in our paths, the DM only putting 2 goblins and one trap, which, being a rogue, he disabled.

By the time all of us but the DM had gotten to the random generic treasure room, all of us had become EXTREMELY annoyed about the fact that the DM was at full hit points and the rest of us were either near dead or dead. He said "Screw it" and rolled about 6 d20's. Then he said "There, I'm dead. You happy now?". He dropped boulders out of the ceilings in every path and killed everyone but the cleric and I, and knocked the cleric down to -8.

We never let him DM again.

Thorosofmyr
2008-07-27, 11:03 PM
I'm at fault for a few of these things, I admit. The latest game I co-gmed for had dm-pcs. It routinely operated between him wrapping things up and advancing the plot to the PCs saving his sorry ass when he got in too deep.

We also created far too much story, and with 40 some named important NPCs, several secret organizations and prophecies, noone really knew what was going on but me and him. The DMs had a blast...the players not so much.

Anywho, on to griping.

GMs who constantly complain that you win battles, then fake apologies when they kill your characters "accidentally".

GMs who give you a great deal of ability to create varied and collected characters toward a single story goal, and it just ends up being one fight after another. I dislike session spanning combats...

GMs who don't listen to you when you don't like their game, and wonder why you leave.

This doesn't make me hate them, but I do dislike it when DMs get all fired up about a game, then fail to perform. They really like a campaign, take the time to get it all started, then blank on a direction for the game to go in. I completely understand, done it myself a few times, but it's still a shame...

Oh, and the DMs who flat out say you're not a good enough player for their super powerful DnD game. Even when frustrated, playing a little nice nice goes a long way.

Tallis
2008-07-27, 11:49 PM
Not hate, but annoyance: Overall this was the best DM I've ever had, I loved his game. One storyline had us accidently free an imprisoned god. This god built up an army and sent it rampaging across the kingdom. We had several skirmishes and a few major battles before tracking the army back to it's main camp. After a rough start we turned the tide and were winning the battle. At this point the god appeared in the sky above the army and started attacking our troops. We readied ourselves for the final epic battle. I wasn't sure we could win, but the uncertainty made it exciting.
Then Thor showed up and quickly defeated the other god, putting him back in his prison. It was a huge latdown after that big buildup. I honestly would've preferred dying in an epic battle.

Another DM used to come up with ideas for campaigns every few months. We'd make characters, start playing, then 2 sessions later he'd lose interest and just stop running. This happened maybe 4 or 5 times before we gave up on him.

Finally, the one I really hated: The DM had a serious problem with favoritism. We had 2 girls playing in the group. One of them could get away with pretty much anything and always got great magic items tailored just for her. To make it worse (a lot worse) she was my fiancee. Eventually he started hitting on her when I left the room. Obviously I do not play with him anymore (or her, we eventually broke up, but that's unrelated).

Chronicled
2008-07-28, 12:02 AM
First campaign I was in:

DM: "Take a look through the PH and see what you'd like your character to be. Only one person for each class and for each race, and PH only."
Me: "Oh, Paladin would be really fun. How about-"
DM: "That's probably too tough to roleplay for your first campaign."
Me: "...ok... ...how about a Druid?"
DM: "Already taken."
Me: "What's everyone else?"
DM: "Gnome Beguiler, Elf Duskblade, Elf Ranger, Half-elf Druid, Dwarf Fighter."
Me: "..."

I ended up stuck with a fairly bland Cleric, since much of my background got rejected/modded by the DM. The second session in, and the Paladin DMPC shows up. :smallannoyed:

XenoGeno
2008-07-28, 12:27 AM
One of our players was allowed to roll up a new character for his birthday, and so the DM killed off his old one. Fair enough. However, he has recently decided to bring the old character back. Unfortunately, he's bringing her back as a ghost who won't pass on until she personally kills every single one of us. And the DM ruled that the only spells strong enough to permanently get ridof a ghost are miracle and wish, therefore, we're going to have to deal with this every 2d4 days, and eventually probability means someone's going to fail that crucial saving throw.

Oh, did I mention this is at level five, and our only cleric only has two levels in it?

krossbow
2008-07-28, 01:29 AM
Answer: Kills me.

Helgraf
2008-07-28, 02:12 AM
I once traumatized one of my Warhammer FRP characters soo very badly with the Brass Skull that the _player_ now twinges whenever he sees the black and white photocopy image of it I made for use in game.

I've never broken a _player_ before. That was fun.

DizzyD
2008-07-28, 06:45 AM
I have to say the thing that bothers me most is when a DM has a group sneak up on you without any sort of checks to see if you notice them. It first started when i just learned 3.5 and my DM did it constantly... Yeah there could be a scilence spell or something goint but I'm pretty sure 10 fighter kobalds with chainmail and shortswords can't cast that, and if they are that awesome at stealth I want to be one. Then last week my DM did something similar except this time he actually said there was a scilence spell activated, after 2 or 3 spells were already cast, he had forgotten about the scilence spell... It was frustrating, that 6 out of 24 of our crew were killed and not one of our crew yelled for help. I guess we should punish tthe crew?

DigoDragon
2008-07-28, 08:54 AM
DMPCs...
This is an interesting topic to talk about because I do use them in my adventures when I'm the DM, but I've noticed that I'm apparently the only one who knows how to use them Smartly with the groups I RP with.

Mistake 1: Overpowered DMPCs. I really hate how some game masters make their DMPC the most powerful character in the party. Like our group's current GM inserting a dual-weilding flaming warhammer ranger in our group of 2nd level characters to take out half the gang of barely dangerous goblins. If I make a DMPC, I make sure she's the least powerful member of the group. Not too weak that the DMPC is a liability, but she won't be overshadowing anyone except by lucky die rolls.

Mistake 2: DMPCs know everything. It takes the fun out of roleplaying detective work to gather information. If I have a DMPC in the party, she won't know any more then the player group's average knowledge base. Heck, my DMPCs actually can get wrong answers like any PC could. This is much more fun then watching the elf lich correctly deduce all the riddle puzzles in the dungeon before we get a chance to try.

Mistake 3: DMPC's way or the highway. I hate when DMPCs try to become party leader. That usually ends up railroading the adventure. If I have a DMPC in the party, she's a team player and usually goes along with the group's consensus (as long as it fits in character). My DMPCs are meant to help the party as an extra set of hands, not run the adventure for the group.


I apologize in advance if anyone feels this is too rant-y. :smallredface: I pride myself in having the skill of making good DMPCs and I always feel bad for players who have game masters who lack that skill.

valadil
2008-07-28, 09:03 AM
I had a DM who used feats he made up but didn't tell us about and then criticized us for being underpowered. This included piling 4 or 5 instances of weapon specialization (some of which were for +3) on one fighter to do way more damage than any of us.

Made up rules are fine but players should have access and knowledge of those made up rules.

PnP Fan
2008-07-28, 09:03 AM
I think the handful of really annoying things I've had to deal with from DM's is pretty short.

The most annoying thing is being told I had to re-write my character because . . ."X". I wound up re-writing my character twice, basically because the DM couldn't design challenge appropriate encounters. It was really annoying because I had an interesting concept going (Druid/Sorc "force of nature" kind of thing) and a prestige class in mind that, because of campaign requirements (lots of undead fighting = cleric, overwhelming odds = healbot cleric) and forced re-design I no longer met the PrC requirements for. A very dear friend, so I was trying to be cooperative, but man it was annoying.

The second most annoying thing I've seen is player favoritism. At my age, it's mostly between significant others (spouses, gf/bf). And I understand that's going to happen, it seems inevitable. But that doesn't make it any less annoying. Same campaign as above, GM's wife was playing a Werewolf (natural, so no forced alignment change), and so, at the level we were playing, was much more powerful than the rest of the party. Not really the end of the world, in this case, and like I said, I've grown to just expect it, but it's still annoying.

Finally, When the GM breaks his own rules. At the beginning of a campaign, we were told that "magic is rare", which led us to have lots of normal equipment, very few magic items, and only one spellcaster (druic/sorc, same campaign as above). No complaints about that. It was looking to be a nice change of pace. Until we raided an Evil Temple that apparently had enough money and enough spellcasters to crank out at least a dozen wands of lightningbolt and fireball, 5 charges a piece, and passed around to a bunch of low level flunkies. So much for magic items/equipment/casters being rare.

In his defense, my friend is usually a good GM, I don't think he realized the things he was doing as he did them. He's currently running another campaign, and it's looking very promising.

mistformsquirrl
2008-07-28, 09:20 AM
Oh jeez I have quite the list...

My entire Shadowrun career was spent with a GM who essentially thought that we should have to scrimp and save just to get by. He had us literally scrounging for bullets to fire.

Keep in mind, we were still pulling jobs regularly - but it never failed that either A) We'd ALWAYS get screwed out of our pay, or B) We'd get paid; but our pay would only cover the bare necessities.

It seriously got so bad the entire group actually quit because we could not figure out why our characters would bother doing something as dangerous as running, when we'd have more money as say... a McDonald's employee. (Even the ones who had no SINs could find better, safer work <x.x>)

In D&D:

One DM (totally different person than the above, but still) was about as stingy with loot as you could get. He also HATED magic with a passion. The odd thing? He hated magic, but never tried to run a magic-less campaign; so sure, you can be a wizard, but horrible things must happen to you constantly, and most enemies have SR of some sort.

Magic items? NEVER. Even if you spend your own xp to make them. <x.x> Well except for his cousin.

Not to mention his reactions to characters who weren't (in his opinion) "cool" enough. Ie: If you weren't an ultra-manly man in some way, you were going to get into trouble.

Also - the endless NPCs who all talk in this low growl of a voice - every. Single. ONE. Unless it was a female NPC, in which case she's either a prude, or willing to drop her pants for anyone.

He did eventually get better mind you; I just need to vent over that even now, since he didn't get better until after a group abandoned him. (He's gotten different players since then; and frankly I'd be up for trying a campaign with him again to see how he's changed; but he's also moved away so...)

A different DM I had started out great... but then he eventually just... well; every single campaign turned silly. Even ones that were rather serious. It just became quite dissatisfying to play after awhile. (Comedic campaigns are great; but not when you're told to expect serious heavy RP ya know?)

Finally, I have to knock myself as a DM as well. I think my storytelling is great; BUT, I have 2 HUGE flaws that make me a not-so-good DM.

1) I don't remember my own campaigns very well. What I mean is, one session, we'll have a critically important NPC... the next session, I have to be reminded who they are and what they're doing >.< (Which generally involves me going over my notes. Again.) The story is great, I just have to remember what the nine hells I'm doing! >.<

2) This is far worse - The previous thing is just annoying, but my players have always been able to get over it and are forgiving of it. This one - I don't blame anyone for being angry with me over it.

Simply put? I'm horribly unreliable. I'll work up a story, be very happy where everything is headed... and then suddenly, in the space of just a couple days, utterly lose interest. So I'll run a couple more sessions, then start coming up with excuses to cancel until things peter out <x.x>

I'm hoping as my bipolar meds improve, that problem will be resolved, but for now I pretty much need to stick to DMing one-shots and episodic things.

Oh, actually there's a third too:

3) I'm very short-winded when it comes to DMing. Any more than 2-3 hours and I'm completely pooped and need to rest. Which given #2...

Yeah.

<~.~> In short - I'm not so great a DM myself.

I have had good ones at least though; two DMs in particular have really blown me away with their abilities; and the third kept things light hearted, but not stupid, and just made for very enjoyable campaigns with very tense climaxes.

valadil
2008-07-28, 09:40 AM
GMs who ignore certain players. I had a GM who didn't know what to do with my character so he had me thrown in prison for a couple hours every session and I got to sit there and watch the game. I really wish he just told me that he didn't have any plot for that character and I should make another one.

And on that note, I also had a GM who let me play a bigoted wild west gunslinger. The GM was a pacifist and thought our characters should be too and he got seriously heated with me for wanting to shoot things that he thought we should talk to. I would have been happy to play a social character had I know what the game would be like.

Eorran
2008-07-28, 09:41 AM
I've played with one DM who was really brilliant. Unfortunately, most of his brilliance went into tricking his players into royally screwing themselves. One adventure ended with the entire party unwittingly activating a trap the soul gem (no save if you willingly touch it...). They were released from the gem, eventually... to be kept in a zoo for several months.
He's convinced another player to surrender to the town's police... who promptly beat his character to 1 hp, and stole all his gear.

The worst part is, none of this ever comes about by DM Fiat, or by withholding information that the PC's should have known. He's just clever enough, and knows the players well enough, that he can manipulate us. In the end, we look back and see that it really was our decision.. which sometimes feels worse than being rail-roaded.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-07-28, 10:13 AM
In an AFMBE campaign, I wanted to play a Vietnam vet who had avoided society since the war and was bigoted against asians. The DM convinced one of the players to play asian, to create drama.:smallannoyed: Which was fine, but when we started talking, 2 other characters were asian as well, just because their players wanted to be. I ended up trashing the concept before first session so we didn't have a TPK 5 minutes in. :smallfurious:

sealemon
2008-07-28, 12:24 PM
Had a DM back in the day (Seriously, we're talking 1.0 here) who created a dragon boss that he loved so much that not only did he decide this dragon would have arcane magic (fair enough), but that it could use clerical items (!), and finally he gave the dragon a unique ability: Powerdive...which auto killed the pally because he was wearing full plate armor so the impact would squish his insides and...FU, DM.


And yes, I agree that DMPC's can be very annoying if they're not played correctly. [B]DigoDragon has it just right, IMO...a DMPC is not supposed to be a proxy for the DM to show off for the party: it should be a tool to help the party along. The main reason I've ever used a DMPC is when I can only get 2-3 people to play a campaign, and I feel that some holes should be filled...but my DMPC is not going to be the star of the show by any means.

SmartAlec
2008-07-28, 12:28 PM
Insists on running a Call of Chthulu campaign.

This guy has a degree in Psychology, it's just unfair!

Calemyr
2008-07-28, 12:50 PM
I once played a guardsman (LG human ranger/rogue/would-be justicar) whose trademark weapon was a custom adamantine spiked chain he could use capture criminals. While travelling in another country he drank a potion-vial's worth of elven wine. This was apparently enough to cause him to pass out and sleep through a thief breaking into his room in a secure inn without so much as a listen check (the character had a max ranks in listen, as well). The thief stole one item from my guy's pack: his chain, the one big-ticket item he owned.

So, after tracking down clues about possible suspects, then locating the Theives' Guild and getting inside, the Guild refuses to let me have the chain back and won't sell it, but they offer to let me have it for free if I can beat their labrynth, which is full of low undead and subject to an antimagic field. Keep in mind that my character is a guardsman, who is having a hard time keeping non-hostile in this environment, much less being eager to be entertainment for theives. One other problem: the punks have my weapon, right? That's when the DM reminds me that I still have a pair of as-of-yet unidentified shortswords from a previous "adventure" in my pack. Okay, I can do that...

Once in the labyrinth, I pull out the shortswords and, with the help of the one party member willing to assist, slowly work my way to the end. Once out on the other end, the magic on the short swords suddenly becomes active and, because I hadn't expressly stored them again, begin to fuse with my hands so that they became simple balls of meat with a blade sticking out of them. Keep in mind this is the party rogue who just went through all of this to get his weapon of choice back. And the only way to undo the magic of these blades, and thus regain any semblance of hands, was to assault a wizard's tower with no entrance and whose tenants hadn't been seen in decades. All to regain a weapon for one character that had already been paid for. Needless to say, the game kinda fizzled at that point.

spamoo
2008-07-28, 01:01 PM
My one horrible DM story takes place about two months after I was introduced to the game. The party consisted of a NG Fighter (Me), a CG Rogue, and a LN Sorcerer who apparently had something against casting spells other than feather fall.

We entered a large room and found some giant monster guarding the artifact that we were supposed to retrieve. The first round of combat, this thing bull-rushed the sorcerer off of some edge. It did the same to an NPC ranger that was traveling with us the next round. Being a fighter, I charged the thing and attacked. After a couple of rounds, I realized that I could only hit the thing on rolls of above 18 (natural). It was also able to heal itself after every round. Finally, I rolled a Nat 20 and confirmed it (note: I was wielding a scythe). 53 damage. It was able to heal all of this in two rounds. Finally, the ranger flies back up from the cliff and somehow kicks that thing's a** in one round. Somehow we had all failed to notice that she was half-celestial and about ten levels more powerful than us. On a side note, we never did go back and retrieve the sorcerer.

Waspinator
2008-07-28, 02:21 PM
DMPCs are one of those things that can either work very nicely (for example, giving a party that doesn't have anyone who can find traps a way of dealing with them) or can work terribly (having the DMPC basically able to solo everything). I think the biggest thing that some DMs need to remember is that most games are supposed to be about the players. If the DMPC overshadows them, they're probably not having fun.

krossbow
2008-07-28, 05:40 PM
Yes. I have had experiences with DMnpcs, and man, they can be horrible.


One Dm was a classic railroader; his npc was the conducter. Each of his campagins had us working for "a boss" whether it be pirate captain, smuggler, or the like, and he was always equipped with incredibly powerful magical weaponry. Add on that our characters logically should have just deserted and ran (considering we got no pay and the npc often left us for dead in situations that were entirely his fault) and we ended up just quitting (as when we tired to kill him the NPC god-moded and pwned us hardcore.... non-lethally of course).



However, i've also had good expereiences with DM npcs, and i actually find them to be an almost essential part of any campaign. A voice of reason who sometimes steps in to help us when we're in trouble, or find a small clue is great to have ina campaign. It certainly made me feel better when one stepped in with the knowlege of where we could find a safe house of lawful good adventurers in one campaign

skeeter_dan
2008-07-28, 06:50 PM
As a DM, I've had nothing but good reactions to my DMPCs, generally because they're unoptimized with a couple key abilities that make them useful; my favorite was a tracker that had a dragonmark ability that allowed him to use Locate Object. He also had a symbiont that he wore as a necklace that produced crystal shards for him to throw. He rarely hit, but the PCs always cheered when he did. I like creating my DMPCs as the underdog.

In any case, I have benefited from having excellent DMs for my DnD "career" but there was one campaign that got a bit on my nerves. The BBEG was literally unbeatable and would show up at seemingly random times and thrash us. We almost killed him when my monk (it was Oriental Adventures) used stunning fist and he actually failed his save (only time it happened). Unfortunately, he escaped. It just got very frustrating that there was no way for us to win. The campaign ended with one of the party members stealing the BBEG's sword only to find out that the sword was the BBEG, taking control of his body and causing him to kill us all. Very epic and tragic, but ultimately frustrating...

holywhippet
2008-07-28, 08:06 PM
One I was told about by my current DM in a Shadowrun game he was playing in. The party was preparing to break into a building and had sketched out a short, rough plan to do so. Their DM told them he wasn't happy with the brief plan and demanded they make a more thorough plan. They made a more thorough plan and he announced he still wasn't satisfied. They ended up spending 2 game sessions planning their foray into this building before the DM was satisfied. So they broke into the building and were immediately told that the plans of the building they'd been using were completely false and that the building was nothing like what they'd expected.

It was the last session they played under that DM.

Moofin Bard
2008-07-28, 11:50 PM
I remembered my Shadowrun days. I must say that the GM was completely unfair at times but I had no complaints because it was player favoritism and it was aimed at me. He had a crush on me. My character was a Technomancer and there was a situation where she should have been killed by a Black Hammer program but it 'malfunctioned'. Oh and some of the players never showed up so we ended up doubling our players. In the end we had to drop the campaign completely. Which is sad because it was cool and involved trips to Mars, and time travel.

Helgraf
2008-07-29, 01:02 AM
On the DMPCs subject, well, I've seen both sides of the line. Personally, the DMPCs I usually end up providing when I'm running a game are 'hole-fillers' who don't do much outside of their design function. Like a dedicated trapsmith. Actually that one has come up a few times. I'm a firm believer in letting my players build the characters they want (within the broader framework of Core, WotC produced splats [that either I own, or I review the option in question beforehand]). If this means I start a campaign with 2 thieves, 2 cleric/thieves and a monk, then so be it.

Mind, I also put it in the PCs hands to determine how they're going to find and recruit/convince the neccesary DMPC. This also gives them some degree of control since they can specify for specific skillsets and such and require demonstration, but it also means they don't neccesarily get to select for what sort of baggage the DMPC might bring with them.

RTGoodman
2008-07-29, 01:17 AM
One Dm was a classic railroader; his npc was the conducter. Each of his campagins had us working for "a boss" whether it be pirate captain, smuggler, or the like, and he was always equipped with incredibly powerful magical weaponry.

I've got this DM. Except our "boss" is the same in every single campaign (I think we're on number 3, by now).

And that "boss" is Solid Snake. Yeah, voice, headband, wooden crate (i.e. cardboard box), "repeating tranquilizer hand crossbow," and everything.

quiet1mi
2008-07-29, 01:53 AM
create a despicable NPC and make it so the players will have to be evil to kill him (he is a pillar of the community and there is no proof of him doing anything wrong, just hearsay and theory)

nobodylovesyou4
2008-07-29, 01:56 AM
create a despicable NPC and make it so the players will have to be evil to kill him (he is a pillar of the community and there is no proof of him doing anything wrong, just hearsay and theory)

huh? that sounds like itd be an awesome campaign - a political intrigue thing, where you have to get dirt on the guy and expose him for what he is.

BizzaroStormy
2008-07-29, 02:01 AM
I don't really hate my DM for it but he stopped a game in which I was doing my best ever roleplaying. After a while, discussions of starting where we left off in a freeform structure occured with a genreal consensus that it would be a good idea. However the game never started.

While I understand that my DM is bogged down with all kinds of crap im still kinda depressed. It would be like almost getting to the part of MGS4 where the story starts to make sense and then someone takes the disk and hurls it into the sun(likely the only way to destroy it)

Ragabash
2008-07-29, 02:46 AM
I once played in a Vampire game (Old World of Darkness) that started out in the Dark Ages and went from there. It was run by my brother, and involved ridiculous levels of favouritism towards a person I will refer to as K. At one point, the ended up causing it to be my last session with him, he actually wanted to punish my character for doing the smart thing instead of going along with the plan K came up with. The plan, which was suicidally stupid, should have resulted with the players being executed or having to flee the city even if it worked (It involved infiltrating a major attack on the vampires of the city by outsiders. Nobody in the group he wanted to infiltrate knew us, and we'd only arrived in the city the day before, so nobody knew us near long enough to believe they weren't part of the group. My idea was to raise the alarm about the attack so that it could be defended against.)
This was the cumulation of a long series of "what K wants, K gets" situations that were getting increasingly frustrating to me, and I had no choice in the end but to walk away from the game.

Funny off topic story, this is the same person who birthed the expression "subtle as a 30' werewolf" by not understanding how that isn't subtle. And in case you think you misread that, yes, he actually asked "how is that not subtle?"

quiet1mi
2008-07-29, 08:59 AM
huh? that sounds like itd be an awesome campaign - a political intrigue thing, where you have to get dirt on the guy and expose him for what he is.

no there is no dirt... it is all speculation that he is connected with everything... in reality he is just despicable...so if the players try to kill him r exposed him for what he really isn't he will probably sue them for slander and then ill make a villain out of him...

Swooper
2008-07-29, 09:13 AM
My regular DM doesn't really show an interest in actually learning or understanding the rules. He was fine back when we were playing 2nd Edition, but since the switch to 3rd his rule-fu has been going steadily downwards. He hardly ever creates stat-blocks for his NPCs (including the ones we're supposed to be fighting), and when he needs them he'll just make something up that doesn't make sense and usually has little beyond hit points, AC, saves and attack/damage figures. In the case of spellcasters, he'll ask for the PHB when that caster's turn comes and look for a spell that looks useful instead of having a premade list of spells that NPC knows and/or has prepared. In the few occasions that he does prepare something, he won't bother to go outside core although he always lets us use whatever books we have. And this guy much prefers using human(-oid) opponents to monsters, so he doesn't get all that much use out of Monster Manuals. When he does pull something from there he usually ignores most of the special rules, abilities and feats that monster has.

"Why do you let this man DM!?" I hear you cry. Why? Because he makes kick-ass stories.

mistformsquirrl
2008-07-29, 11:45 AM
Man <._.> I'd actually be OK with a DM like that. (I prefer humanoid opponents myself <,< bizarre as it may seem, I'd rather fight an evil human than I would an orc, and I'd rather fight an orc than 90% of the twisted monstrosities in the MMs <,< ... not that I don't like fighting them, but I have preferred enemy in real life I guess <'x'>)

Nerd-o-rama
2008-07-29, 11:49 AM
no there is no dirt... it is all speculation that he is connected with everything... in reality he is just despicable...so if the players try to kill him r exposed him for what he really isn't he will probably sue them for slander and then ill make a villain out of him...What does he do that's so despicable, then, if he's not committing any crimes? Is he just an ***hole?

Oh, and I think I annoy people with incredibly random posting schedules in my PbP games, as well as not planning ahead enough and eventually getting over my head in guesswork in both PbP and regular games. The latter, I think I've got a handle on this time...but now I'm guilty of putting in an overpowered DMPC. I'll have to "take care of" the Commander pretty soon...

Zocelot
2008-07-29, 12:06 PM
We had just started playing a game, and the party (level 14s) was approached by a middle aged man. I can't remember exactly what he said (it doesn't matter), but we all agreed that he had to be evil. He then gave us a quest to retrieve an ancient orb of power, which everyone in the party refused to do. At that point the DM just said "If you don't want to do this quest, you can all go home". I got pretty pissed at him, but the group did the quest anyway.

After we got the orb, we were still all level 14, and the NPC tried to intimidate us into giving it to him. When we collectively refused, he attacked us. Not only was he an Epic level Wizard in Full Plate with no Spell Failure chance, he also had 4 elven orphans chained to him, which we were reluctant to kill. It stopped us using AoE's on him. Somehow, we got him down to critical health, when he killed an orphan and healed back to full. It resulted in a TPK, and no one in the party wanted to game with the DM ever again.

The only good thing I got out of that adventure was the line "Ok, you've managed to kill 3 orphans, the party's fighter, and do 30 damage to the BBEG"

Ragabash
2008-07-29, 12:15 PM
We had just started playing a game, and the party (level 14s) was approached by a middle aged man. I can't remember exactly what he said (it doesn't matter), but we all agreed that he had to be evil. He then gave us a quest to retrieve an ancient orb of power, which everyone in the party refused to do. At that point the DM just said "If you don't want to do this quest, you can all go home". I got pretty pissed at him, but the group did the quest anyway.

After we got the orb, we were still all level 14, and the NPC tried to intimidate us into giving it to him. When we collectively refused, he attacked us. Not only was he an Epic level Wizard in Full Plate with no Spell Failure chance, he also had 4 elven orphans chained to him, which we were reluctant to kill. It stopped us using AoE's on him. Somehow, we got him down to critical health, when he killed an orphan and healed back to full. It resulted in a TPK, and no one in the party wanted to game with the DM ever again.

The only good thing I got out of that adventure was the line "Ok, you've managed to kill 3 orphans, the party's fighter, and do 30 damage to the BBEG"

If I recall correctly, the armour in question is a magic item from the Book of Vile Darkness. I can't remember the name or details of it offhand, sorry.

FatherMalkav
2008-07-29, 12:27 PM
If I recall correctly, the armour in question is a magic item from the Book of Vile Darkness. I can't remember the name or details of it offhand, sorry.

You're right. It's the Dread Emperor, the example of a tyrannical BBEG. I think that was even a plot hook. The one difference is that i think the armor automatically damages the children instead of him, not he kills them and is healed.

BloodyAngel
2008-07-29, 03:05 PM
As a frequent holder of the DM stick, and someone who rarely has a large group, I often have to add in DMPC's. I usually attempt to make them interesting characters, but give them a secondary role in the game, letting the PC's be the spotlight and using them for support.

For example, in my last 4th ed game, I had two players. One was a human fighter with a greataxe, one a halfling archery ranger. Both cool characters with cool personality quirks and stories. The group needed some help though, so I set them up with two DMPC's. A young nobleman warlord who had gotten the itch to adventure... and a tiefling rogue who was basically a cheerful, energetic 16 year old girl. The group ended up with a hilarious dynamic, as the halfling was a simple country boy who had the hots for the tiefling... who in turn had the hots for the handsome young noble... who didn't fancy ladies, if you get the drift. The fighter was a calm, stoic man who was very protective of people... especially women. The halfling was endearingly simple when it came to things like con men and pretty girls... and often got in trouble because of it. And the warlord was a pretty level-headed young man who wanted to do the sorts of things that people wrote stories about. The players liked both NPC's and enjoyed roleplaying with them.

More importantly, they didn't take the game from the PC's. The warlord was the ultimate support character... healing his comrades and using most of his actions to allow the fighter a second swing with that great axe. The rogue was good at trap-disarming, but her low wisdom and untrained perception meant she tended to move ahead like a kid with ADD rather than take the time to notice things. The ranger found the traps, and she disarmed them. She was also green to the whole fighting thing, and for the most part, listened to the PC's in combat. Neither character caused anger in the players, and they both helped the party succeed... but they didn't take the show from the players.

I've been playing for a long time, and I've seen the horrors of DM favoritism and DMPC's... So I avoid them like the plague. (In fact, my boyfriend says I tend to be HARDER on his characters in my games... go figure) I think every npc should add to the game and enhance the story or mood... but the game should never be about them. If the NPC's can solve all the problems... why should there be players? Just write a story about Ragnar the unkillable instead...

Nerd-o-rama
2008-07-29, 03:16 PM
Oh, I'm normally good at DMPCs, like Karl the bland-yet-deadpan-amusing single class fighter (that group was lacking in tankitude). Although admittedly, I inadvertently gave him a crowning moment of awesome when I had him cut his way out of a dire shark. It was that, or roll up his identical twin cousin, and even then, it came down to a fair roll of the dice.

In the case of the DMPC of my current game, the problem is that he's based on the Taste of Power (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ATasteOfPower) character from the video game I'm ripping off the plot of. However, since I've also been ripping off...no, no, my players might read this. Let's just say the genre makes it easy to make characters no longer a problem.

EndlessWrath
2008-07-29, 04:19 PM
So my GM currently has a Co-GM....

I have a character who fights unarmed and deals 1d8 pressure point dmg. I have an item that gives a bonus die to normal attacks..not abilities...but attacks. so 2d8. I also have an item that deals 1d4 cold dmg per attack, and lets me make a ranged unarmed attack 1/day. can gain claws... which can make 1d6 unarmed attacks. Since I'm already hitting pressure points with physical attacks... he said it could stack.
So 2d8+1d6+1d4+3 in dmg. which in this game (very high level and op system anyways -_-)

so its 3 weeks later and I'm talking to the Co-GM and the GM. i ask them about an ability and if it stacks... so they say "I don't remember giving you that"... I was like.. yeah ...its written on my character sheet... you gave it to me..." So they argue with me for a bit... then try to rationalize how it all works... I counter argue... and such...for one huge migraine of a problem.

I would have been fine with them denying the stacks... if they said it 3 weeks ago....

I hate it when people can't make up their damn minds.

Talanic
2008-07-29, 04:25 PM
I have had two DMs so far. The second one only has minor issues, but the first...

Okay. I joined the party as a level one bard, for my first ever character I had created for tabletop D&D. We had a few bad party members; one was Vraal, a level 12ish I-still-don't-know-what, with psionic abilities and stuff. He was a servant of the level 16ish wizard. Halruuans, I think they were...but the problem was that Vraal wanted all loot of all types. This, I believe, was only natural in this campaign, but when, after many trials and tribulations, we got a pair of +1 weapons, which my bard would gladly have used, he grabbed both and refused to share until threatened by the wizard (his RL significant other). Note that he couldn't even use that particular type of weapon either...

Oh, and you got the levels right. Level 1 bard added to a party with a level 16ish wizard. There were a level 6ish rogue and cleric as well. Encounters were given based on the average level of the party. You might expect the higher level characters to breeze through them, but they were seriously underpowered by lack of equipment.

By 'lack of equipment' I mean that the most powerful magic item the party had obtained by the time my bard was level 6 (and the raise only occurred when the DM knew that it was NOT working) was a wand of Summon Monster I. Caster level of 1 on the wand, also, so you could use it to summon a 1 hit point goblin for 1 round. On finally getting gold, magical items were right out; never for sale. This was FAERUNE. WTF?

Later on, to handle the level spread (and because the players were gone) the higher-ups were 'indisposed'. So we got put up against a group of monsters that were of proper CR. It was rogue, bard, and cleric versus god-knows-what, because he never told us what they were despite our knowledge checks. We only won because of an NPC (not quite a DMPC) who happened to have magical weapons; otherwise, my character could score a maximum damage critical hit to deal about 14 damage after damage reduction was applied. My regular hits could hardly do anything, and one hit took my character down to half. Massive DM fudging was also applied during the fight; this would become characteristic throughout the campaign.

Net loot for the full dungeon, after all of us nearly dying several times, was about a thousand gold, split five ways. I wish I were kidding. I learned to min/max for armor class from that DM, though it turns out that some of the stuff I did was actually impossible; I didn't know the rules for total defense, fighting defensively and combat expertise. If I had known the rules, the party would've been wiped--except THEN the DMPC (literally his old character), an epic wizard, would have intervened.

The other DM runs a heck of a fun game, with his own interpretations on the rules--he said it flat out before we started that this would be different, and low magic. I created a wizard, with his advice on how a wizard would get going, plus a bunch of backup stuff: poisons, a blowgun (even spent my only feat to get proficiency), alchemical skills and supplies. I spent a lot of resources in the pursuit of having something my character could do; my party members wound up having a couple of min/maxed fighters, so I aimed for respectable power for a level 1 with 500 gold (which everyone got).

First thing he does is take character sheets and cross off items. I wind up with my staff and two vials of alchemist's fire. I still haven't gotten a single chance to use any alchemical skills or research any spells - yet. the. game. ROCKS! He still manages to make the campaign so fun that I only mind a little bit about the other stuff.

Moofaa
2008-07-29, 06:01 PM
I think it could be fun to run a campaign with mixed levels like that, but only as a short adventure just for some laughs. Would be interesting to watch lower-levels trying to adapt to be useful, and higher levels trying to protect/sacrifice the lowbies.

It wouldn't be a campaign to be taken seriously, however.

evisiron
2008-07-29, 07:05 PM
I have been pretty lucky so far in DMs. But then there is The One.
I shall start by mentioning that he was a pretty bad player, with stuff such as being late every time (We started telling him the games were 2-3 hours early than they actually were and he was still late), playing the same character over and over, doing stupid actions, bringing his latest girlfriend to games irregardless of whether they wanted to play or not or how the rest of the group felt etc etc

He wanted to DM a game. We were willing to let him. Perhaps this is where he would shine, and if not, maybe gain some appreciation for how much goes into one.
Mistake!

The short list of issues:
1. Invited 11 people to play, 9 showed up, so rounds took forever. Yes, we warned him about this before hand.
2. Arrived 4 hours late to HIS OWN GAME, leaving us waiting outside.
3. Talked for 30mins, then decided to get food. The rest of us had eaten, but he left anyway.
4. More talking upon return
5. Game runs for 20 mins then stops while he looks up notes.
6. 10 mins of play, then stops to look up stats
---Repeat this part, he had no stats ready to go, nor pregenerated loot---

To top this off, my character ended when "Suddenly daemons surround you, and knock you unconscious" knowing that another character wanted mine to die. No rolls. No initiative. Just "Daemons surround you, and knock you unconscious". And then the daemons walked off. Just left, without attacking the party or anything and no plot reason given for it. Gah!

The group disintegrated soon after, but am thankfully reforming the better players into a new group! :smallbiggrin:

EvilElitest
2008-07-29, 07:54 PM
rolll the dice and then go "hmmmm, thats interesting" Ug, so evil
from
EE

SoD
2008-07-29, 09:31 PM
rolll the dice and then go "hmmmm, thats interesting" Ug, so evil
from
EE

Oh, I've done that, many times. Another favourite tactic was when I have players who like watching DM secret rolls: sometimes I'd do it behind my hand, and, using the result it showed, would turn it so that an 18-20 ro 1-4 would show up instead. Just to throw him off guard.

Or another time:
Me: *roll dice. Frown slightly, roll again, try not to smile, roll again, grinning hugely* "Hey, can I have marching order?"
Players: *set up miniatures*
Me (to player at back): "Uh-huh. What's your spot modifier?"
Player: "Plus four. Why?"
Me: "What's your flat footed AC?"
Player: "12. Why?"
Me: "OK, make a will save."
Player: "13, does that do it? Did I make it? What was I making a save again?!"
Me: "Oh, nothing. Nothing much."
Had the players on the edge of their seat for the rest of that session.

EvilElitest
2008-07-29, 09:47 PM
When ever i do raven loft, i will sometimes randomly roll dice just to keep them nervous. When they ask i go "oh, nothing" in a very sly tone
from
EE

Helgraf
2008-07-29, 10:04 PM
The Warhammer version of this technique is fun too.

"Mmm, yeah. By the way, for my own amusement, make me a Toughness Test, eh?"

"Make me a visually based Very Hard Perception Test."

"So, which one of you had the meat bread?"

nobodylovesyou4
2008-07-29, 10:17 PM
First game I ever played with one DM, he showed up six hours late.
six.
hours.
late.
when we asked why, he said, "I had to work." "WHY DIDNT YOU TELL US?" "Huh... never crossed my mind."
:smallsigh:
Then, in the two hours left, he proceeded to give a party of level one characters a ton of magic items, including the shadowstaff - a major artifact. Of course, all of them except the shadowstaff were cursed. of course. one character got -6 to three of his stats because he drank a potion that gave him THREE BESTOW CURSES. he got better after that when i told him to stop killing us, but still. damn.

EvilElitest
2008-07-29, 11:15 PM
The Warhammer version of this technique is fun too.

"Mmm, yeah. By the way, for my own amusement, make me a Toughness Test, eh?"

"Make me a visually based Very Hard Perception Test."

"So, which one of you had the meat bread?"
i know, it is so painful when your the player, when your the DM it so bloody fun
from
EE

TheCountAlucard
2008-07-30, 12:21 AM
I've never had that kind of DM before, but I can see how "You rolled a 16? Okay, you don't see anything significant..." can be nerve-wracking.
Also, in a solo game a friend of mine made, my bard was apparently chummy enough with the king that he made me general of his army... at first level.

Thorosofmyr
2008-07-30, 01:28 AM
Forgot about this one.

Dm rolls dice, looks at results.
DM: OH MY GOD!!
Players: What?
DM: Oh...nothing.

2 minutes later

Dm rolls dice, looks at results.
DM: OH MY GOD!!
Players: What?!?
DM: Oh...nothing.

I can understand it every so often, but the guy would not get the hint how annoying it was.


Also, never played with this DM myself, but I heard several stories about he would leave mid session to answer phone calls. From his girlfriend. When she just wanted to talk, no emergency or anything. For hours on end.

I completely understand that communication is the foundation of a relationship, especially a long distance one. But ditching your friends for hours like that just because your gf is bored? Bad form man, bad form.

Cheesegear
2008-07-30, 05:30 AM
DMs who don't remember their own game;
Example; When the DM says "Alright, everyone give me your character sheet so I can give them a once-over and tell you what you can't have...", keep in mind, this is usually a mid/high-level campaign that this happens.
Halfway through the game, the DM creates some BBEG, or minion that should mop the floor with the party. You pull out your weapon that bypasses BBEG's DR and the DM just looks at you like "When did you get that...!?"
And you tell him you created your character like that, and you've been using the Cold Iron Longsword for the whole game. Just the prospect of DR hasn't come up until now.
The DM tells you that you're lying. The other players back you up (because it's true, and my demon-hunting Paladin has most definately had a Cold Iron sword the whole game). The DM then gets stroppy because you've just made his BBEG cry, and then hates the game from then on. Even though you gave him the sheet to look over.
...The same happens when you get loot, and two sessions later the DM asks you when you got it.

DMPCs that either steal the game, or are quite obviously a clone of the DMs favourite PC so far, or a clone of certrain popular fantasy characters, that the DM wasn't allowed to PC in any other game because they were quite clearly a clone.

Or when conversations like this happen;
DM: What do you do?
Player: I drink the potion.
DM: Are you sure you want to do that?
Player: Okay, if you've given me a second chance, then I don't.
DM: Are you sure you don't want to drink it.
Player: Yes, yes I'm sure.
DM: Really? Are you sure you don't want to?
Player: Fine...I drink the potion.

And then it turns out that the potion is one from BoVD or some poop, and makes you sprout scorpion claws and gives you snake glands and then makes you die swallowing your own mixture of saliva and poison...I don't really know what it did, but it made my character unplayable.

In the same vein; I don't really mind if the DM says "Cheesegear, what's your AC?" if something actually happens, like an arrow shoots from the bushes or something. After all, that's what an Invisible/Silent character with a surprise round does. But, when nothing happens - at all. It makes me so angry.

Favouritism. If only because it never seems to land on me.
I have to say, an ex of mine once had a fight after a session because I never gave her a break (I didn't give any of the other players any either, but she seemed to miss that). But, this is unrelated to why she's my ex.

DMs who try to railroad your characters into a plot having already read your background and character concept, when your PC would have no reason for doing so.

DigoDragon
2008-07-30, 07:09 AM
And yes, I agree that DMPC's can be very annoying if they're not played correctly. DigoDragon has it just right, IMO...a DMPC is not supposed to be a proxy for the DM to show off for the party: it should be a tool to help the party along.

You're my new best friend. Have a cookie! :smallsmile:



GMs who ignore certain players.

I feel your pain. I once quit a Star Trek game because the game master kept forgetting about my character during combat sequences and important RP situations. He just couldn't think of anything useful for me to do, even though I was the ship's senior medical officer and resident android.

chevalier
2008-07-30, 12:40 PM
Oh, I've done that, many times. Another favourite tactic was when I have players who like watching DM secret rolls: sometimes I'd do it behind my hand, and, using the result it showed, would turn it so that an 18-20 ro 1-4 would show up instead. Just to throw him off guard.

Or another time:
Me: *roll dice. Frown slightly, roll again, try not to smile, roll again, grinning hugely* "Hey, can I have marching order?"
Players: *set up miniatures*
Me (to player at back): "Uh-huh. What's your spot modifier?"
Player: "Plus four. Why?"
Me: "What's your flat footed AC?"
Player: "12. Why?"
Me: "OK, make a will save."
Player: "13, does that do it? Did I make it? What was I making a save again?!"
Me: "Oh, nothing. Nothing much."
Had the players on the edge of their seat for the rest of that session.

I totally do that...I run a cooperative, NON "DM vs PC" campaign, but sometimes they get a little off track or begin chasing red herrings or just do dumb things.....rolling a bunch of d20s and clucking my tongue makes them more cautious and focused...

FoE
2008-07-31, 02:47 PM
I was thinking about this last night and the night before. When do you consider railroading to be justifiable?

I'm trying to learn when it's OK to railroad. I think it's generally accepted that railroading is OK for one-shot adventures, but what about larger campaigns?

valadil
2008-07-31, 03:09 PM
I was thinking about this last night and the night before. When do you consider railroading to be justifiable?

I'm trying to learn when it's OK to railroad. I think it's generally accepted that railroading is OK for one-shot adventures, but what about larger campaigns?

Railroading is bad when it makes the players feel like they don't matter and that they're just along for the ride. If you need to move the plot to another continent, fine. That's plot, not railroading. If the wizard offers to teleport everyone over and you don't let him because you really wanted them to take a ship and get attacked by pirates, then that's bad railroading. Your players are more important than your plot. Restricting the players so that plot can happen is bad.

Kami2awa
2008-08-01, 04:00 AM
I've actually had it happen to me. Cheesy fiberglass 35# reflex longbow... the string nocks were kind of sharp-cornered, and, being fiberglass, didn't wear smooth. Instead, it gradually chewed through the string until one day I pulled it, and when I released, the upper loop snapped. Stung my cheek as the string came free. I've since filed the edges of the string nocks round so it won't happen again.

But that's once in... oh, 20 years or more of archery. And it took a whole lot more than 20 shots with that bow to break the string. I shot it hundreds and hundreds of times between having that string put on and having it break.


Er, back on topic:

Two words: DMPCs.

(Yes, that's two words. I'm just not allowed to use the other word on this forum.)

What are modern bow strings made of? I imagine in the Middle Ages the available materials would be more prone to breaking.

Waspinator
2008-08-01, 08:17 AM
The key to good railroading is to make it so that they never notice that they're on rails.

EndlessWrath
2008-08-01, 09:15 AM
So my guy is a trip artist. The DM decided to railroad us into a jungle where nothing can be tripped.

ahem... I repeat.
NOTHING CAN BE TRIPPED -_-

he told me to play the trip artist too...I call shenanigans.

hotel_papa
2008-08-01, 10:02 AM
I pretty much DM exclusivly now, but the first time I was in Iraq, I played in a a short game run by one of the Marines rotating in as I was rotating out.

He had a DMPC that was some bizarre female homebrewed half-dragon purple thing. I was playing a gnoll fighter, RPing an underling to another Marine's sorcerer. The dragon-thing was hugely powerful and even had some epic end-all spell where she, and I quote "summoned 'Daddy' ". The DM would actually refuse to let the characters make any of the decisions and was essentially playing a game of D&D with himself.

Naturally, the first opportunity I had (The dragon-thing's scripted "failure" to resist a confusion spell) I gave that thing a sweet taste or three of heavy flail. The DM got whiney when I started to actually win, and we nominated an Army kid as new DM.

I will never, ever have a DMPC for more than one or two encounters. If I need one for longer, I phone a friend.

HP