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Jayngfet
2008-07-27, 10:07 PM
I'm wondering, what is the extent of the movement given to undead. Does it extend to individual cells? Do they still divide and individually die off?, if I were to take say a baby,zombify it, and turn it into an adult?

Could two zombies breed?

In theory you could make an undead farm with this.

AslanCross
2008-07-27, 10:15 PM
The D&D zombie, no. Being that they are animated by negative energy, the antithesis of life, they cannot reproduce biologically. Since they don't really age, I'd say the cells are inert--they cannot divide, and since the body's regenerative functions are nonexistent, the dead flesh is not shed. It just stays there and festers. Perhaps the negative energy prevents further decay? (Because it kills off bacteria too?)

*Catgirls die*

Silence
2008-07-27, 10:18 PM
The D&D zombie, no. Being that they are animated by negative energy, the antithesis of life, they cannot reproduce biologically. Since they don't really age, I'd say the cells are inert--they cannot divide, and since the body's regenerative functions are nonexistent, the dead flesh is not shed. It just stays there and festers. Perhaps the negative energy prevents further decay? (Because it kills off bacteria too?)

*Catgirls die*
Seconded.

*Laughs at the bleeding body of a catgirl*

Jayngfet
2008-07-27, 10:18 PM
So they can move but their cells can't why can't their cells move?

On another note, I remember hearing about a half zombie template, someone said that it was just that "one parent was a zombie".

Deth Muncher
2008-07-27, 10:20 PM
*Catgirls die*

*And then get zombified, due to the thread in which they are killed. GO FORTH, ZOMBIE CATGIRLS!*

In any event, I'd say being zombified pretty much stops any kind of aging. I mean, I guess "erosion" might happen: without the body healing itself, if the body is exposed to the elements (note: I mean, nature, not fire water air etc), it might degrade. But then Negative Energy spells fix them...

I guess it's up to the DM.

AslanCross
2008-07-27, 10:21 PM
Well, maybe the cells CAN move. That doesn't meant they're alive and capable of reproduction. (Hence lack of a CON score)

On the other hand, I think it's just a matter of an arcane force pulling negative energy strings on a puppet made of half-rotten flesh. (Which might explain their slow movement)

Jayngfet
2008-07-27, 10:22 PM
Well, maybe the cells CAN move. That doesn't meant they're alive and capable of reproduction. (Hence lack of a CON score)

On the other hand, I think it's just a matter of an arcane force pulling negative energy strings on a puppet made of half-rotten flesh. (Which might explain their slow movement)

Again, there is a half zombie template. So reproduction seems officially confirmed on a large scale.

Silence
2008-07-27, 10:23 PM
*And then get zombified, due to the thread in which they are killed. GO FORTH, ZOMBIE CATGIRLS!*

Where the hell did I put my shotgun.... haven't used it since someone tried to resurrect a lolcat.

Ralfarius
2008-07-27, 10:25 PM
Could two zombies breed?
I got a certain Peter Jackson movie for you to watch...

Jayngfet
2008-07-27, 10:25 PM
Where the hell did I put my shotgun.... haven't used it since someone tried to resurrect a lolcat.

IM IN UR HEAD, MUNCHN UR BRAAAAAIIINS!

itsmeyouidiot
2008-07-27, 10:25 PM
I'm wondering, what is the extent of the movement given to undead. Does it extend to individual cells? Do they still divide and individually die off?, if I were to take say a baby,zombify it, and turn it into an adult?

Could two zombies breed?

In theory you could make an undead farm with this.

They don't really have any living metabolisms, so no, they dont age.

They would, theoretically, decay over time, eventually becoming skeletons.

nobodylovesyou4
2008-07-27, 10:30 PM
I got a certain Peter Jackson movie for you to watch...

it was his best. much better than LOTR, by a longshot. /flameshield.

but the difference between the braindead zombies and the DND zombies, is that the braindead zombies were created by a disease. these zombies are the embodiment of evil energies... perhaps that is the difference?

SoD
2008-07-27, 10:31 PM
So they can move but their cells can't why can't their cells move?

On another note, I remember hearing about a half zombie template, someone said that it was just that "one parent was a zombie".

From memory it works like this:

Boy meets girl.
Boy and girl *ahem*.
Girl gets pregnant.
Girl meets Necromancer.
Necromancer kills girl.
Necromancer turn girl into zombie-with-living-kid-inside.
Kid gets born.
All live happily ever after (except girl, who sort of unlives happily ever after).

Killersquid
2008-07-27, 10:33 PM
If they were probably resurrected right after they died, then yes the cells would be alive and there would be the ability to reproduce (as the sperm still lives). However, they are mindless and lack a metabolism, so the cells and sperm would soon die without any nutrition and the natural environment, and there would be no possible reproduction, as zombies lack instincts to reproduce unless commanded to (WITH MAGIC!).

Lets just say "A Wizard Did It" and move on.

Silence
2008-07-27, 10:34 PM
IM IN UR HEAD, MUNCHN UR BRAAAAAIIINS!

*BAM!*

*chich-chuk*

Hey, I just leveled up!

FoE
2008-07-27, 10:36 PM
No, a zombie can't breed! They're just walking corpses animated by magic! Their bodies don't even function normally anymore! Geez!

As to whether zombies will stay around forever, that's up to each individual DM. I say, no. They're still rotting, see. Eventually their bodies will reach the point where they simply fall apart or the magic animating their bodies will dissapate.

Only sentient undead can live forever, and that's only by feeding on the life force of the living.

Killersquid
2008-07-27, 10:38 PM
As to whether zombies will stay around forever, that's up to each individual DM. I say, no. They're still rotting, see. Eventually their bodies will reach the point where they simply fall apart or the magic animating their bodies will dissapate.


I basically say after 3 months (when the body basically finishes decaying) it becomes a skeleton.

FoE
2008-07-27, 10:43 PM
On another note, I remember hearing about a half zombie template, someone said that it was just that "one parent was a zombie".

Interestingly, I have seen a character in a modern zombie apocalypse webcomic that was half-zombie. He had enhanced strength, so he could kill zombies just by punching them, and he was immune to infection from a zombie's bite. (They just hurt like hell.)

On the down side, his appearance was affected (his flesh is gray and his one eye is black) and instead of hearing the zombies moan and grunt, he can hear them talking. To him.

"Giiive .... uusss .... the hhuman ... hhhaaa ... haaaaa ... half-life ..."

http://www.thezombiehunters.com/index.php?strip_id=74

EvilElitest
2008-07-27, 11:05 PM
i think that their body functions don't work and the rely only on magic, so they couldn't reproduce


my question is what happens if they rot to much, do they become skeletons
from
EE

Killersquid
2008-07-27, 11:10 PM
my question is what happens if they rot to much, do they become skeletons


Probably yea, that's what I'd do (and said).

xirr2000
2008-07-27, 11:13 PM
So they can move but their cells can't why can't their cells move?



Umm....err.....magic?

Iku Rex
2008-07-27, 11:25 PM
Where the hell did I put my shotgun.... haven't used it since someone tried to resurrect a lolcat.
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/funny-pictures-8-lives-cat.jpg

Chronos
2008-07-27, 11:33 PM
What are these "cells" and "bacteria" of which you speak? As everyone knows, living things can move and do all of the other life things because their bodies are suffused with positive energy. When they die, negative energy takes over, and so they rot. If the negative energy is unnaturally enhanced, then it can reach sufficient concentrations to animate the body in a semblance of the way the positive energy used to animate it.

Sheesh, what do they teach kids in school, these days? Next you'll be telling me that there are more than four elements.

Kiara LeSabre
2008-07-27, 11:38 PM
I'm no biology expert, but I'd speculate that if you made your zombie using a person who just died an instant ago, then cast Gentle Repose immediately and kept it constantly active on the target, your new zombie just might remain capable of reproductive activity.

Of course, if that happened, and you used it to produce offspring, it seems more likely to me that you'd just end up with a relatively normal living member of the expected race rather than a "half-zombie." After all, there are no particular biological characteristics specific to zombies other than "dead."

A counterargument to that, though, might be that whatever magical "stuff" animates the zombie in the first place can somehow can passed on to any offspring our very enterprising zombie breeder might manage to produce. But then, what? What that is specific to being a zombie could the zombie actually pass on to the would-be "half-zombie"? It doesn't need to be animated, as living beings are already animate all on their own (with admittedly a few exceptions), so that's out. So then ...?

SoD
2008-07-27, 11:39 PM
Sheesh, what do they teach kids in school, these days? Next you'll be telling me that there are more than four elements.

Looks like someone didn't get a passing grade in chem. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html)

Jayngfet
2008-07-27, 11:41 PM
i think that their body functions don't work and the rely only on magic, so they couldn't reproduce


my question is what happens if they rot to much, do they become skeletons
from
EE

If no body functions worked they couldn't move. Obviously they can move, and any still living flesh will probably die thanks to negative energy, so obviously body functions still work when dead thanks to the necromancy, and there isn't any rule saying that only certain functions work(weather they work as well varies but they still work).

And Iky Rex: BLAM BLAM, 7 lives.

Killersquid
2008-07-27, 11:45 PM
OH GODS!! This pile of bodies...they're all...CATGIRLS!!!

Kiara LeSabre
2008-07-27, 11:47 PM
OH GODS!! This pile of bodies...they're all...CATGIRLS!!!

Their sacrifice will not be in vain. This line of thinking must now be carried to its inevitable conclusion, and to that end, I propose a zombie-breeding experiment.

For science!

FoE
2008-07-27, 11:49 PM
The rules have to leave some things to decide for yourself, Jayngfet. But the one thing I would say they can't do is breed. Because that's just ****ing wrong, man.

Killersquid
2008-07-27, 11:51 PM
The rules have to leave some things to decide for yourself, Jayngfet. But the one thing I would say they can't do is breed. Because that's just ****ing wrong, man.

How is it wrong for you, you are the embodiment of evil...

Yea, breeding is kinda squicky, I wouldn't allow it, as they have no impulse to reproduce due to mindlessness.

FoE
2008-07-27, 11:57 PM
How is it wrong for you, you are the embodiment of evil...

Even Evil Has Standards, (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvenEvilHasStandards) dude. :smalltongue:

erikun
2008-07-28, 12:02 AM
Alan Zong has tried zombie breeding experiments. He has only managed to get more zombies after throwing life humans in the pits, though. Go figure.

Anyways, I have never heard about any kind of zombie breeding, or half-zombie characters, before. Clearly, Face Of Evil's link has changed that, although that's probably one of the only half-zombies around right now. Not even the virus-induced zombies (ie. Resident Evil) can breed.

I seem to recall an "awakened" zombie template, along with an "awakened" skeleton template. They were in the splatbook that included the deathless type - Tome of Horrors, was it? I've also seen a half-flesh golem template, but again, no half-zombies.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-07-28, 12:06 AM
Official WotC source(BoEF) says that if an undead body is preserved completely(no more than even an hour, non-consecutive, without Gentle Repose) it can still breed, however any more than that and it loses the ability to due to damage to the relevent parts.

I'd also rule that if the mother was undead, and wasn't under GR for even a second, she'd have to deal with the same penalties mentioned for polymorphing while pregnant. (Con drain, infertility)

Jayngfet
2008-07-28, 12:09 AM
Alan Zong has tried zombie breeding experiments. He has only managed to get more zombies after throwing life humans in the pits, though. Go figure.

Anyways, I have never heard about any kind of zombie breeding, or half-zombie characters, before. Clearly, Face Of Evil's link has changed that, although that's probably one of the only half-zombies around right now. Not even the virus-induced zombies (ie. Resident Evil) can breed.

I seem to recall an "awakened" zombie template, along with an "awakened" skeleton template. They were in the splatbook that included the deathless type - Tome of Horrors, was it? I've also seen a half-flesh golem template, but again, no half-zombies.

Which only makes things stranger. If a bunch of still rotting slabs ate tied together with no regard for body can breed, what about a still fresh corpse completely driven by an energy source.

Collin152
2008-07-28, 12:13 AM
Undead sperm.
Goog luck getting them out of the tihng that's tryign to eat your brain, though.

Jayngfet
2008-07-28, 12:58 AM
Undead sperm.
Goog luck getting them out of the tihng that's tryign to eat your brain, though.

Command undead with a creepy necromantress.

I just realized this would work perfectly with my next campane, a necromancer lost his family and reanimated them, he knows it's not the same and is working to get them back for real(the conditions of death make resurrection impossible). He's willing to settle for undead abominations and eventually grew to love his obedient little good girl and his wife always makes his favorite foods. Eventually he forgot his original goals amidst the near perfect servants, shambling pregnant wife and rule over town. The harem of Wights was just a bonus.

Kiara LeSabre
2008-07-28, 01:11 AM
Command undead with a creepy necromantress.

I just realized this would work perfectly with my next campane, a necromancer lost his family and reanimated them, he knows it's not the same and is working to get them back for real(the conditions of death make resurrection impossible). He's willing to settle for undead abominations and eventually grew to love his obedient little good girl and his wife always makes his favorite foods. Eventually he forgot his original goals amidst the near perfect servants, shambling pregnant wife and rule over town. The harem of Wights was just a bonus.

And they all lived happily ever after. How sweet.

Jayngfet
2008-07-28, 01:14 AM
And they all lived happily ever after. How sweet.

Actually halfway through the final battle between him and the PC's the dragon and her eliete mooks blow open the door, burn down all his zombies, and steal all his spellbooks before killing him. After casting hold person on the party and before dragging them off to the base.

Kiara LeSabre
2008-07-28, 01:32 AM
Actually halfway through the final battle between him and the PC's the dragon and her eliete mooks blow open the door, burn down all his zombies, and steal all his spellbooks before killing him. After casting hold person on the party and before dragging them off to the base.

Oh no! A tragic ending after all. :smallfrown:

Jayngfet
2008-07-28, 01:38 AM
Deus angst machina! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.DeusAngstMachina)

Khanderas
2008-07-28, 02:12 AM
I'm no biology expert, but I'd speculate that if you made your zombie using a person who just died an instant ago, then cast Gentle Repose immediately and kept it constantly active on the target, your new zombie just might remain capable of reproductive activity.
Hm. My vote is still with expectant-mother-got-zombiefied theory. If it is at all possible without mad scientists/necromancers and/or divine intervention.

Gentle Repose as far as I can tell, only preserves a corpse from decay. Doesnt make it alive in any way, including cellular division. And without that division, nothing grows especially not something as resource costly as a child-to-be.