World of Warcraft Thread III - No, I will not conjure you water! [Archive]

Swordguy

2008-07-28, 12:06 AM

Oh! We get to hate on rogues for a while? EXCELLENT! As a hunter, that whole class is my bane (and favorite target, second only to locks).

This document outlines the progression of rogue methods and tactics upon extended interaction with the hunter class in a PvP environment.

DEFQQ 5: Standard Operating Procedure

At this QQ level, the rogue treats the hunter like a normal target of opportunity: better armor and health than a mage, worse armor and health than a warrior. The rogue will go about his business of ganking squishies, lowbies, and people who are eating or bandaging; however, he otherwise places no special emphasis on any particular class or character. The rogue will also attempt to ninja towers, flags, and bunkers where possible. Note: More experienced and intelligent rogues bypass DEFQQ 5 entirely and operate in a constant state of DEFQQ 4.

DEFQQ 4: Post-Close Encounter

A rogue enters DEFQQ 4 after being Hunter’s Marked, or attacked by a hunter while in stealth. However, this only applies to physical attacks; rogues that are Flared out of stealth immediately assume DEFQQ 3 (see below).

At this QQ level, the rogue will now give the hunter a slightly wider berth than other classes (excepting felhunter warlocks), having remembered that hunters have Track Hidden, and some of them know how to use it. However, being caught while stealthed is an unfortunate fact of life for rogues, and while it is irritating, the rogue generally assigns no exceptional importance to it.

DEFQQ 3: Flared

Rogues are rogues because they believe in the superiority of stealth. Taking away stealth from a rogue is like taking away bubblehearth from a pally, or really big MS crits from a warrior. Stealth defines the rogue class, and that’s the difference between being shot out of stealth and being Flared out of stealth. Any class can happen to notice a stealthed rogue and hit him, but only a hunter can simply remove a rogue's core ability away without so much as an autoattack. In short, being Flared out of stealth is emasculating.

Having been exposed in such a manner, the rogue will look for ways to harass or embarrass the hunter in their next encounter, such as Sapping or Distracting if the opportunity presents itself. However, the rogue’s top priorities remain ganking and ninjaing.

DEFQQ 2: Flared, Trapped, Marked, Dotted, Flared Again

DEFQQ 2 marks a transition from wary and irritated to angry and off-balance. At this point, the rogue has had an extended exchange with the hunter which resulted in the rogue being taken out of stealth repeatedly in a short period of time. In most cases this eventually results in the rogue being killed by the hunter’s teammates or hostile NPCs.

In the rogue’s view, the hunter is standing between the rogue and the reason the rogue chose his class in the first place – namely, ganking squishies and ninjaing flags. To the rogue, this is an intolerable imposition on his pursuit of happiness, and to this end the hunter must be made to pay. The rogue will single him out for attack, even to the extent of shadowing the hunter until he is alone or vulnerable. Dispensing gratuitous justice has become more important than actually achieving mission objectives, such as winning a BG or finishing a quest.

DEFQQ 1: Run Down Like a Dog

The difference between DEFQQ 2 and DEFQQ 1 is the hunter’s direct involvement in killing the rogue. A rogue enters DEFQQ 1 after the rogue is not only de-stealthed repeatedly (as per DEFQQ 2) but is then run down by a Cheetahed hunter and his pet when he attempts to disengage and Sprint away. Without immediate backup, the odds of survival for a rogue in this position are essentially nil despite having burned every cooldown available to his class.

Upon death, the rogue progresses from a state of simple anger to a state of unspeakable rage. Afterwards, the rogue will unswervingly seek out and attempt to destroy the hunter. The rogue will run through a pack of priests and mages to get to his target. It no longer matters whether the clothies are at 5% and the hunter is at full health, or whether three MS warriors are carving topological maps of Tibet into his backside. The rogue has – rather ironically – abandoned any pretense of subtlety and transformed himself into a two-fisted, leather-wearing, kamikaze berserker.

A rogue will remain in this state until he kills the hunter and survives long enough to spit on the corpse, or else bites his keyboard in half.

Addendum

Certain truly exceptional rogues may operate independently of the DEFQQ spectrum. These players always maintain a rational assessment of mission objectives and class abilities, and will keep a calm demeanor in the face of extraordinary aggravation. While rare, these rogues are highly dangerous. Engage with extreme caution.

Mattarias, King.

2008-07-28, 12:51 AM

Draken

2008-07-28, 12:57 AM

:smallbiggrin: Heheh. My girlfriend's a rogue. Might find this amusing.

Also GAH. :smalleek: The ouchies with the back-stabbies and the sapping and the oy..

I don't care what L80ETC says, I'm not INTO that. :smalleek: NOT how a man fights.

..on a slightly related note:

"can u make me some water?"
"Sorry, fire mage."
"O.. damn."

True story. :smallbiggrin:

A classical one as well.

I never had the chance to do it however, the only time someone unknown asked me for water, the person also offered a small compensation for my time (aka: he paid).

I am not one to go complaining about gold now, will I? Specially for a service that costs me little more than some points of mana and a couple of seconds.

TigerHunter

2008-07-28, 01:12 AM

Given that this thread is full of mages who'll be along to hate on the rogues shortly, I'll just complain about how much I hate it when I go to finish a rogue off, then... oh look, that 5k Fireball crit didn't take away the 100 health he had left. Oh look, he vanished. Oh look, I'd better run for my life before his cooldowns reset.

Tengu_temp

2008-07-28, 01:24 AM

Draken

2008-07-28, 01:29 AM

PvP skills, I has. Not.

Seriously. A friend of mine defeated my frost mage with a protection specced (ange geared) paladin once in a duel. I suck at PvP.

Not like I care a lot, really. Went to battlegrounds just enough to get the red undead warhorse, the gladiator staff, not a PvP person here.

Vaynor

2008-07-28, 01:33 AM

"can u make me some water?"
"Sorry, fire mage."
"O.. damn."

True story. :smallbiggrin:

"Did you spec for arcane intellect?"
"No..." *puts arcane intellect on self*

On another note, when I was tanking on my pally...

"<mage's name here> please sheep moon"
"Sorry I'm not arcane"
"~_^"

Also, my solution to rogues when I'm pvping on my mage:

PoM Frostbolt I win button (puts up trinket, presence of mind, arcane power, icy veins, and shoots a frostbolt) + cone of cold + fireblast + arcane explosion till it's dead. They tend to die quite fast.

Poison_Fish

2008-07-28, 01:54 AM

Rogues are newbie killers - if you suck, a rogue will kill you before you do anything, but if you have some basic pvp skills, the fight will be fair. If you do any pvp, you should have the pvp trinket, and that will let you burst out of the stunlock. Mages can even blink out of it, and hunters can use their max tier talent in Beastmaster (BM is the pvp build for hunters).

Unless it's a mace rogue. These guys are cheap and overpowered.

"You can't do that while stunned, you can't do that while blinded, you can't do that while gouged"

Not that I'm QQ'ing all that much. But against a good rogue, they have enough tricks up their sleeve that a single trinket won't fix. But then, for good ole mages and hunters, that's what blink and being frost is for.

For shaman's, it's for causing RAGE and a lot of it. Same goes for warlocks except they have skill coil and knock many other classes hands down.

Granted, off all things I think I hate the most, it's a tie up between the ice mage pvp spec with improved counter or an SL/SL warlock fear spaming with a totem killing macro and a fel pet. When I'm sitting around as rival (challenger this season for being gone for half of it) and know for a fact I can't do anything, that is a shame.

Yes, I know, I know, Shaman QQ, support class, etc. etc. You try having only one spell school and not having a bubble-hearth and warrior level armor.

It does make me happy we are getting our answers eventually, with astral plain, thunder, and hex though.

ok, yes, I QQ'd. No, I'm not specing resto, but I will heal.

Carne

2008-07-28, 02:01 AM

"Did you spec for arcane intellect?"
"No..." *puts arcane intellect on self*

I'm reminded of the Kara pug I mentioned in the defunct No. 2 thread. The main tank quit the group and only my Kara-geared Feral Druid guildie (who has main tanked the entire place) was left as a tank. They asked if anyone was a tank, but I told them she was only off-tank spec, so they made the resto druid hearth back and respec to feral.

The_Chilli_God

2008-07-28, 04:05 AM

Swordguy

2008-07-28, 04:15 AM

TigerHunter

2008-07-28, 04:46 AM

There are a pair of rogues on the WoW forums claiming that rogues need a buff because they stand no chance against a mage.

...draw your own conclusions.

Jibar

2008-07-28, 05:34 AM

Argh! Why is all the coolest stuff showing up after I quit!?

I was taking a look at the new Talent Trees that'll come with Rise of the Lich King, and Warriors get so many cool options now.
I mean, Bladestorm, One handed two handed weapons, so much rage generation.
I could do so much cooler deaths if I had those abilities.

Ah... I miss going into zones twenty levels above me and hurling myself at the biggest monster possible.

...and I wondered why nobody wanted to do instances with me.

Vaynor

2008-07-28, 05:41 AM

There's another kind?

All of the rogues in my battlegroup are now subtlety specced...

Destro_Yersul

2008-07-28, 07:55 AM

I'd hate on mages in retaliation of all this rogue-hating, but truth be told, the only reason I hate mages is because they're that one class that I can't seem to get the hang of playing with any real effect.
That, and their damage embarrasses me at times. Like that one mage I party'd with in early Hellfire, he was shooting 2k or 3k fireballs of some sort from out his arse and I barely had time enough to move up to the mob and get out my opener before it was already dead.

That would be what I do. I'm a fire mage, and I have godly DPS, and I kill things before they can even get to me. Not so great at pvp though. Mostly I hide in the middle of a bunch of druids and blast things that get too close.

Wardog

2008-07-28, 09:27 AM

Shadowstep, sap, kill pet, gouge, backstab, sinister strike, gouge, kidney shot, backstab, sinister strike, gouge, eviscerate.
And if that didn't kill you, vanish, sap, sprint, run. :smallbiggrin:

Or get eaten by pet. Gods, I hate hunters.

Oops - you just strod on my Freezing Trap :)

*retreat to safe distance*
*send pet*
*activate "Bestial Wrath + Intimidate + Blood Fury + AP trinket" macro*

Good bye rogue :)

Cubey

2008-07-28, 09:30 AM

All of the rogues in my battlegroup are now subtlety specced...

Exactly. A mace-specced rogue is a rogue without Cheat Death, Shadowstep and possibly Preparation. So, dead meat if you manage to avoid their first cheap shot-kidney shot combo.

Blizzard in general failed with rogue design. Each class has clear functions on what is each talent tree for - except Rogues, and to a lesser degree Mages. Rogues have Subtlety which is good for PvP AND PvE, and Combat and Assassination which are... not so good. At least Combat is decent for PvE.
Mages have Frost which is good for PvP and PvE, Fire which is good for PvE but very mana inefficient, and Arcane which is... eh... good to dip in for mana regen. PoM-pyro is so last season - you won't kill anyone decent with it anymore.

The bad design gets better in WotLK.

EDIT:

Oops - you just strod on my Freezing Trap :)

*retreat to safe distance*
*send pet*
*activate "Bestial Wrath + Intimidate + Blood Fury + AP trinket" macro*

Good bye rogue :)
And the rogue vanishes - wasting one cooldown while you wasted four. Bestial Wrath (or should I say, Beast Within) gives you a boost to damage, but its main factor is that it makes you immune to everything but pure damage. Best to use when you're under attack.

But on the other hand...

Shadowstep, sap, kill pet, gouge, backstab, sinister strike, gouge, kidney shot, backstab, sinister strike, gouge, eviscerate.
And if that didn't kill you, vanish, sap, sprint, run. :smallbiggrin:

Or get eaten by pet. Gods, I hate hunters.

Not enough stun. The bolded part leaves a huge 5 second opening for the enemy to run away from you and hurt you.

Jimp

2008-07-28, 11:16 AM

Copy and pasting my last post on the old thread:
Since my shammy is my first 70 and I'm really not geared for Kara, I was wondering would I be geared enough for heroics?
Armoury link:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...n=Magneticflux
Insignia of the horde is usually replaced with the +5 to all stats alchemy trinket and another day or two of honour grind and I'll have another pvp axe in my off hand.

Cubey

2008-07-28, 11:27 AM

The link is broken, is this (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostmane&n=Magneticflux) your character?

The gear looks okay. I started Karazhan in worse stuff, so I'd say you're good for heroics. Here's a few pointers.
1. Replace the green. That's pretty obvious.
2. PvP gear is generally pretty poor for PvE. It's better than nothing, of course. That's because PvP focuses on survivability, with lots of stamina and resilience. You won't need these that much in PvE, unless you're a tank or it's one of the few fights when non-tanks get heavily attacked. PvE gear tends to have more attack power/spell damage/mp5 instead, which is useful for DPSers in instances.
Your talent build looks good.

Mattarias, King.

2008-07-28, 01:36 PM

There are a pair of rogues on the WoW forums claiming that rogues need a buff because they stand no chance against a mage.

...draw your own conclusions.

...*blink* :smalleek: No.

They must've started that thread just to be trolls. I've never met a rogue that I could beat.

..Then again, I'm a PvE specced fire mage. But yeah...

On a sidenote, I'm fully hit capped in just blues and greens! :smallbiggrin: Feels like a real accomplishment.

edit: well, I have that SSO amulet, but that doesn't count. >.> No hit rating..

TigerHunter

2008-07-28, 02:19 PM

...*blink* :smalleek: No.

They must've started that thread just to be trolls. I've never met a rogue that I could beat.
No, they're dead serious. But thankfully, even the other rogues in the thread are laughing at them.

RE: fud n watr plz
This is how I'm going to respond from now on.
[Greenie] whispers: cn u mak me fud plz?
To [Greenie]: Why do you say plz instead of please?
[Greenie] whispers: cuz its shortr nd ezier 2 type
To [Greenie]: Then I'm going to say no, because it's shorter and easier to type than yes.

The_Chilli_God

2008-07-28, 02:23 PM

Not enough stun. The bolded part leaves a huge 5 second opening for the enemy to run away from you and hurt you.Crippling poison, bitch.
But alright, you have a fair point. What would you prefer?

Cheap shot, backstab, sinister strike, gouge, kidney shot, backstab, sinister strike, gouge, eviscerate, get eaten by pet.
Sap, kill pet, gouge, shiv, 5-second opening, gouge, kidney shot, backstab, sinister strike, gouge, eviscerate, don't get eaten by pet.

Cubey

2008-07-28, 02:43 PM

The first one, actually. The pet won't deal significant damage unless the hunter pops Beast Within - if that happens, just vanish and run away before he flares (global cooldown, so you have time!). Then repeat.

Crippling Poison just makes them move slower. Every class you face is either good in Melee or has an instant to punish you or move away... except for some Druids and non-Enhancement Shamans. So you have to keep them stunned or otherwise incapacitated for as long as possible.

TheEmerged

2008-07-28, 03:20 PM

So, back from my mini-vacation in which I played more WoW than I probably played in the three weeks previous combined.

MAIN (Frost Mage).
Still 70. Can you believe it was possible to lose levels in some previous MMOG's like EQ? Ask me about the horror story that was level 22 for my enchanter in that game sometime. Anyway... As I've said before, she's essentially done pending WotLK. I'm mostly running her through the dailies to get money for projects on my alts, but an exception has cropped up.

I noticed something odd about the admittedly-limited beta enchanting info. Most of the existing TBC enchants are getting upgrades in WotLK, but at least one exception is noteworthy -- Dodge to Cloak. This is one of the old AQ enchants that was added to TBC factions as exalted. Lower City happens to be one of the factions (like Honor Hold) that originally held little of interest to me so I wasn't careful enough gaining rep there. Well, my tankadin friend likes this enchant and every time he gets a new cloak he ends up having to hunt for it (nobody in his guild has it either).

So one of the things I did during my mini-vacation is to try and work on this faction. I managed a partial SLab run, a heroic Halls run (it was the heroic daily one of the days), and a near-successful heroic Slab run. So I've only got about 13k more rep to get with them now for Exalted.

FERAL DRUID
My tank alt (planned to become a scribe come WotLK) is just about done with Un'Goro Crater, which has been very kind to both his leatherworking and herbalism skills. I'm wondering if he'll be able to duplicate my priest's performance and hit herbalism 375 before he hits 61. He's 54 and loving Mangle. At 52 he tried out killing some 49 elites (one on one, just multiple times) and won handily. Hey, *I* was impressed with me anyway :)

One piece of bad news with him though is that he's hit the Runecloth stretch of First Aid (290 to 330) -- where it's not practical to level with Heavy Mageweave anymore but he can't use Netherweave yet. This is always a bit of a struggle for me because usually my mini-guild is pretty supportive of tradeskill work -- but my tankadin friend entertains delusions of riding an elephant on his dwarf but shares my disdain of PvP. This means he hordes all the runecloth and grudges (half-jokingly) whenever he knows I'm getting it and not shipping it to him. And before you tell me to send him to the AH, runecloth sometimes gets as high as 1g apiece on my server.

I've decided to go Aldor with him, which means I need to find a place to farm the first marks he'll need -- the better to get a stock of runecloth and to get this out of the way as soon as possible when he hits Outland. The only faction I *know* he's going to need is Cenarion Expedition (an exalted reward there is probably the best feral weapon outside of raids).

CLICHE
The cliche (draenei shaman jewelcrafter) has finally entered HFP and is half-heartedly running the gear-up quests there when the tank alt is stockpiling rest XP. He's been 60 for nearly a month, actually, but I refuse to send any of my alts to HFP without their +100% mount ever again. He's managed to hit 330 First Aid and is therefore out of the Runecloth stretch.

The main story for him is his JC skill. As I've joked before, I don't have alts for the classes so much as for the tradeskills. Once he trained to advance the skill passed 300, I went to the guild bank and got our stockpile of green-quality Outland gems we've been saving for just this moment. Not too much time but too many gems later, he's sitting at 361 and has finally learned the JC designs I've had banked for him for months.

He's also learned the Delicate Living Ruby pattern I got as a random drop while doing my dailies during the mini-vacation. Seems this one might be a bit of a money maker, looks like they run about 80 gold on my server. Now, the base item also runs for about 80 gold so I can't make raw profit off it from the AH alone -- but Brilliant Glass is still yellow for him (albeit on a daily cooldown) and so far I've had decent luck getting rubies from it. Problem right now is his only yellow patterns require either Talasite or Living Ruby, so the Dawnstones & Star of Elunes in the bank don't help him.

PRIEST/ALCHEMIST
Sitting at 60 in HFP right now, languishing a bit. If I could play for longer times more often, I'd seriously think about respecing her to a holy/disc build and just level through instances the way my friend did his priest alt. But right now I'm just having too much fun leveling the druid/tank alt. As things go right now, I'm probably going to level Laram to 70 first. Since he's stockpiling herbs in preparation for training Inscription, it's questionable how much "leftovers" she'll get of his herbs. I'm hoping to get a better grasp on what leveling his inscription will really require before long.

Zherog

2008-07-28, 03:58 PM

Rogues have Subtlety which is good for PvP AND PvE, and Combat and Assassination which are... not so good. At least Combat is decent for PvE.

Interesting -- I've had no problems being an assassination specced rogue playing pve. *shrug*

Vonriel

2008-07-28, 04:17 PM

Decent for pve? Combat is widely hailed (i.e.- every rogue I've talked to) as putting out the best pve dps possible. There were some who claimed assassination was equal to it, but that still means combat is the best.

As for rogues... My favorite trick with a hunter is best used as a NE: You shadowmeld, thus getting the rogue to think you're one of the noobs who thinks shadowmeld is hard to see. You position yourself with your back to your freezing trap, so the rogue thinks that you think that he'll stupidly charge into it without noticing. Then, you turn on track hidden and wait for them to come up and waste their time trying to disarm the trap, or more deliciously, to sit by and wait for the trap to disappear. :smallamused: Then the fun begins. I like to start with a concussive shot to instantly slow them, and sic my pet on them. Then, I run away while they're slowed, and proceed to teach them why you don't mess with a smart hunter.

However, I prefer to play paladins, where you turn on holy shield and go make a sammich while the rogue literally kills itself. As long as the rogue doesn't massively outgear me, it's gg.

Archangel Yuki

2008-07-28, 04:42 PM

Decent for pve? Combat is widely hailed (i.e.- every rogue I've talked to) as putting out the best pve dps possible. There were some who claimed assassination was equal to it, but that still means combat is the best.

(/pulls out professors cap)

combat is considered the best for Raiding. However, this depends on the interior spec of the combat rogue.
By interior spec, I mean what combat spec they take. Fist/sword, pure sword, Mace sword, Daggers, ext.
Mutiliate has been proven to keep up with combat daggers in raiding situtations, but there are rare exceptions to this. Checking the rogue forum, you can see 1 rogue who is mutiliate spec that actually keeps up with combat sword.
The real problem is getting decent spec down, and then getting the combo point rotation down. Does one use Eviscerate or Envenom while gouge is up? Do you wait for Sinister strike or wait to just use Mutilate? Do you go Assassination/Combat Or Assassination/Sub? Do you open with ambush or Garotte?

In reality, its the rogue that makes the spec. However, I can tell you that Mutiliate will become a Viable raiding spec.

In one on one PvE, Mutiliate has enough burst to keep it up. To tell the truth, in this rogues opnion, I love it for PvE also. Its got great places for bursts of damage- Expose weakness and Imp. Kidney shot can proc together, to double mutiliates then and Cold blood Eviscerate. It all depends on the rogue.

Also, to those mages who talk about blinking out, never face me in arena. I never shadowstep mages to begin with- I walk up, cheap shot, then when you blink I shadowstep and start my stunlock of death.

Or, I go mace and just make you hate me. :smallamused:

Cubey

2008-07-28, 04:59 PM

Also, to those mages who talk about blinking out, never face me in arena. I never shadowstep mages to begin with- I walk up, cheap shot, then when you blink I shadowstep and start my stunlock of death.

Yeah, that's what every competent rogue does. Only newbies burn up cooldowns needlessly. Last week, I fought with a hunter who burned his Beast Within the moment he saw me. I was still too far away and it was Blade's Edge, so I just hid under the bridge and neither him nor the pet managed to get a single shot in. Don't be wasteful like that hunter.

The_Chilli_God

2008-07-28, 07:36 PM

As for rogues... My favorite trick with a hunter is best used as a NE: You shadowmeld, thus getting the rogue to think you're one of the noobs who thinks shadowmeld is hard to see. You position yourself with your back to your freezing trap, so the rogue thinks that you think that he'll stupidly charge into it without noticing. Then, you turn on track hidden and wait for them to come up and waste their time trying to disarm the trap, or more deliciously, to sit by and wait for the trap to disappear. :smallamused: Note to self: Distract and open up from what used to be your front when seeing a shadowmelded hunter with a frost trap covering his butt.
Edit: Another note to self: NEVER assume someone is a noob until one of you is dead.

Hmm... Lets consider that I'm actually a Combat rogue instead of all this Subtlety and Assassination nonsense. Cuz Combat is the tree for stunlocks, specially with mace spec and Adrenaline Rush. But anyway! Is it worth popping Blade Flurry against a hunter?

Archangel Yuki

2008-07-28, 10:49 PM

Hmm... Lets consider that I'm actually a Combat rogue instead of all this Subtlety and Assassination nonsense. Cuz Combat is the tree for stunlocks, specially with mace spec and Adrenaline Rush. But anyway! Is it worth popping Blade Flurry against a hunter?

Depends. If its a serious PvP, then yes, it is. You get 20% increased speed: More hits with a mace means more stunlock. Generally, if I want to be serious, i treat Hunters just like I treat my mobs.
Cheap shot, slice n dice, Adreniline Rush evasion, blade flurry, Spam Sinister strike to 4 or 5 cp then kidney shot or eviscerate. continue SS until you can Evisc or KS again.

You need to semi kite the pet though; you cant dodge attacks that come from behind you, so just step behind the hunter during this and turn to get him to face your front.

World of stuncraft.

Leon

2008-07-29, 09:22 AM

I Dont PVP on my Mage anymore (4004 reasons not to, number one being i like the number) but the last time i encountered a Rogue in a PVP fashion was at the Midsummer festival - i was planing on going to the Draenei island to do some fire stealing.
I was on the boat and i watched this lvl 69 rogue board and walk up to me, around me and then attack from the front. i novaed, jumped back and PoM Sheeped Him then dropped off the back of the ship while entering Invis - swam off to a lil island near by and logged

Cheat Death - I didn't know about this at the time but was in EotS with my warrior a while back and was utterly annoyed and astounded that a rogue could survive a Full rage bar execute, he stunned me and fled to heal (i guess).

Grr it ate my text...

Carne

2008-07-29, 01:02 PM

Dalaran preview

Movie: http://youtube.com/watch?v=X40q87GJ-ec

Would have been nice to actually have the maker stop and examine some of the details (such as the portal terrace early in the video) but all that running around gives me the impression that the place is HUGE, larger than Stormwind perhaps, and potentially just as annoying to navigate on foot.

Cubey

2008-07-29, 01:24 PM

Cheat Death - I didn't know about this at the time but was in EotS with my warrior a while back and was utterly annoyed and astounded that a rogue could survive a Full rage bar execute, he stunned me and fled to heal (i guess).

Cheat Death got nerfed, but it still has a 100% chance to save the rogue from a killing blow. The first one at least. Unless the rogue fights Saurfang, of course.

If I fight a rogue and it vanishes in outside PvP (not arenas or BGs), never coming back, I count it as win.

Vonriel

2008-07-29, 03:14 PM

Cheat Death got nerfed, but it still has a 100% chance to save the rogue from a killing blow. The first one at least. Unless the rogue fights Saurfang, of course.

If I fight a rogue and it vanishes in outside PvP (not arenas or BGs), never coming back, I count it as win.

I loved that cheat death nerf, for quite a few reasons. But my favorite is that I can now hammer of wrath after I see it activate and just maybe get that oh-so-fun 2k damage crit :smallamused:

Question for the rogues out there: If you weren't in your arena gear (i.e- didn't have resilience out the wazoo) would you still spec into cheat death for pvp? Or would you use those points elsewhere and wait until you can get the damage reduction benefit before taking it? It seems to me that it almost wouldn't be worth it to take cheat death if you don't get the damage reduction benefit as well.

TheEmerged

2008-07-29, 03:44 PM

In case y'all hadn't heard, a pair of rings that sell for 7599/99/99 on the Kirin'Tor reputation have been discovered, with a portal to Dalaran as its on-use ability.

I *really* hope that doesn't mean there's no mage portal for Dalaran...

Cubey

2008-07-29, 03:57 PM

Naah... take a look at the rings' stats. That's what you pay for, the teleport is just an extra.

Mattarias, King.

2008-07-29, 10:32 PM

:smallbiggrin: Well, that'll be a good temporary source of cash early on in wrath. I'm totally running straight to Dalaran and getting that port. Though something tells me it's probably learned at 75.. Not like that won't be easy to get to, though. Heh.

Sidenote! Totally dropped mining for herbalism to stock up for inscription. Bam. I looove me some free bloodthistle. :smallcool: Also flamecap.

Vaynor

2008-07-29, 10:58 PM

ghost_warlock

2008-07-30, 01:03 AM

Question for the rogues out there: If you weren't in your arena gear (i.e- didn't have resilience out the wazoo) would you still spec into cheat death for pvp? Or would you use those points elsewhere and wait until you can get the damage reduction benefit before taking it? It seems to me that it almost wouldn't be worth it to take cheat death if you don't get the damage reduction benefit as well.

I don't do PvP (like, at all), but since Shadowstep is THE rogue PvP build there's really no reason not to take Cheat Death, the other talents simply don't make up for the whole not-dying thing...

Thrawn183

2008-07-30, 11:26 AM

I'm in need of advice. I started WoW this summer and now have a 53affliction lock. I have two problems:
1) I only play with my two friends. We all have laptops so we can play at the same table. I can solo mobs 5 levels higher than me and elites 3 levels higher without even getting hurt. In a group of 3, (pally tank, druid healer and me on dps) anything that isn't at least 3 levels higher than us is literally a waste of our time. How can I convince my friends to go after higher level stuff? And what should we hit after... Winterspring? I gotta have a good suggestion if I'm going to have a chance of getting them to move on quickly.
Sub-point) My friend doesn't like to group much, so we only do instances once we can 3 man them without dying too often. So I'm somewhat undergeared. (okay, that was just a rant)
2) I have rediculous frame lag, I've done everything I can to fix it from background programs running to lowering video settings to their minimum. I've been to Shattrath once and it was a disaster. What do I do when I have to run around there on a regular basis?

As a lock that regularly encounters rogues... as long as they're not twinked out I don't think they're particularly unbalanced. All I need is the time to get off a trinket that will give me enough time to get off a fear and I've got at least a shot. I only get ticked off from being killed by a rogue when I'm dead before I even break stun lock.

SpikeFightwicky

2008-07-30, 11:46 AM

Questions within questions:

1) Everyone in the trade channel (curse them!) complains about hunters in Beast Mastery spec having an 'I win' power. Which one is it, and why is it so broken?

2) Is there a server(s) that GitP members play on/have guilds on?

3) How effective (in general/PvE/PvP) is a survival spec hunter?

4) Is a combat spec rogue effective in PVP?

Fun as a hunter in a BG: If you're stuck defending (usually because no one else has the common sense to defend), you're not out of the loop yet! If you have a decent DPS pet, use 'Eyes of the Beast' and you can help in the offense. Not only that, but I've found that players tend to get confused when a pet's coming at them with 'human-like' tactics. WARNING! Keep a constant eye out for your own health. You make an easy target for anyone assaulting the flag.

Can't think of anything else at this point...

TigerHunter

2008-07-30, 01:23 PM

1) Everyone in the trade channel (curse them!) complains about hunters in Beast Mastery spec having an 'I win' power. Which one is it, and why is it so broken?
Beast Within. You might have seen them use it--turns them and their pet red, gives both of them complete immunity to any form of CC, and ups their dps.

2) Is there a server(s) that GitP members play on/have guilds on?
Cenarion Circle, Alliance side. Type /who The Playgrounders and ask someone on the list for an invite if you'd like to join us. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85531)

3) How effective (in general/PvE/PvP) is a survival spec hunter?
No clue, but from what I hear they're only good for PvE CC.

4) Is a combat spec rogue effective in PVP?
Also no clue, but see above few posts.

Poison_Fish

2008-07-30, 01:29 PM

Questions within questions:

3) How effective (in general/PvE/PvP) is a survival spec hunter?

4) Is a combat spec rogue effective in PVP?

3. In general, it can be effective, but survival is essentially a raiding spec to boost everyone else. You want to be around 500 agility once you go survival. In the meantime, Marks dipping into survival is very effective for personal damage and CC in 5 mans. Beast Mastery is rather simple to play in comparison to the other two specs. In PVP, survival is not good. BM and Marks are far more powerful. In Arena, BM is most common, with Marks being in high end play in 5's.

4. Subtle rogues are the most effective rogues, but that doesn't really matter if your honor grinding. I've seen machine gun spec rogues (with maces) be extremely annoying when they are beating up my shaman. Granted, they end up as a toasty critter in the end because they have less abilities to use on me(and I usually have far better gear). In arena, all high end rogues and most other rogues are subtle. It gives them the most control over a fight.

The_Chilli_God

2008-07-30, 02:27 PM

I'm in need of advice. I started WoW this summer and now have a 53affliction lock. I have two problems:
1) [...] How can I convince my friends to go after higher level stuff? And what should we hit after... Winterspring?I would recommend splitting up group and focusing on solo'ing all the other 50-60 zones in Azeroth (Silithus, the Plaguelands, Burning Steppes maybe...) and getting to at least level 58, preferably 60, before looking towards Hellfire Peninsula in Outland. The way you talk about having no difficulty killing things way higher level than you, I'm sure this way will ensure you get your Xp's worth per kill and everyone else will get theirs.
Also, My main dinged 58 by doing a quest in Felwood. So if you've got any lower-level areas you haven't been to yet, the quests there are still quite good for Xp. Just as long as they aren't grey.

2) I have rediculous frame lag, I've done everything I can to fix it from background programs running to lowering video settings to their minimum. I've been to Shattrath once and it was a disaster. What do I do when I have to run around there on a regular basis? Either suck it up or get a computer upgrade, and avoid Shatt as much as humanly possible. If you have the Questhelper addon, I'd suggest getting rid of it since I found it tended to cut people's framerates into tiny bits, especially in Outland.
...Yeah, my computer sounds just about as crappy as yours. I'm typically brought down to 1-2fps in Shatt, sometimes as bad as 0.3fps during the initial shock of entering that lag-city. So far, I'm sucking it up, but I'm looking to get a new PC soon.

Swordguy

2008-07-30, 02:42 PM

Questions within questions:

1) Everyone in the trade channel (curse them!) complains about hunters in Beast Mastery spec having an 'I win' power. Which one is it, and why is it so broken?

As mentioned - The Beast Within, the BM 41-point talent. Essentially, you're immune to anything except direct damage. Unfortunately, it's not like hunters have huge HP reserves, so people complain about it because they have to actually chase and hit the hunter a couple of times, rather than hitting their own snaring ability button (skillcoil, fear, root, intercept, frost spec, being a rogue) and smashing the hunter while he's stuck there. It's also a 2-minute CD, so the odds of it being ready when you attack is abut 1 in 6.

3) How effective (in general/PvE/PvP) is a survival spec hunter?

The primary use for this hunter is raiding (or endgame instancing) CC. One of these hunters, combined with a 2-bit armor set that drops from Steamvaults, can cut their trap cooldown time to 22 seconds, from 30. That allows them to chaintrap stuff EXTREMELY efficiently, without having to kite the trapped mob between trappings while waiting on CD. In PVP, they also make decent defensive units with frost trap spam around major objectives. In return, they give up a great deal of DPS - close to 30%, all told, on the same shot rotation as a MM hunter, and something like 40% lower than a BM hunter.

4) Is a combat spec rogue effective in PVP?

Only if you really like maces, and stunlocks, and being able to drop most any given class in the game by yourself without them having the opportunity to fight back. I've watched a mace combat/assassination rogue chew through a 22k health druid without her getting to even fight back or move, because she was stunned the ENTIRE time and didn't have any "escape" abilities off of CD.

Combat rogues give up the survivability of the Subtlety tree for raw stunning and damage ability. A lot of people really like Shadowstep at the top of the Subtlety tree, but Surprise Attacks does grant a 10% damage bonuses, by itself, to Sinister Strike, Backstab, Shiv, and Gouge abilities.

TheEmerged

2008-07-30, 03:33 PM

Well, increasingly it looks like I won't be running a DK. If I want to play a character striving for redemption, it's going to be one that's striving for redemption by NOT BEING EVIL ANYMORE!

Ahem. I won't say more since it would spoil how the DK quests work on the beta server right now.

------------------------------------------------

Well, I thought I was going to get away with it, but while turning in my last Un'Goro Crater quest my druid alt finally got Devilsaured :smallbiggrin: At least I got him down to 33% before he killed me. He started the Felwood leg of his journey, and since he's a skinner he might actually get to do some of the "plant salve" quests.

Speaking of skinning, I finally broke down and just bought the Salt Shaker on my LWing alt (42 rogue). I swear, the game has changed from being the World of Dailycraft to the World of Cooldowncraft for me lately, between my JC doing Brilliant Glass, my main making Primal Mooncloth for herb bags, and now the LW refining salt... if my alchemist had a transmute she could skillup from right now, it'd be a hat trick.

And speaking of Brilliant Glass, my last one gave me a Lionseye -- epic quality! Yeah, I probably should have just sold it for the gold but I cling to the delusion of maybe needing it someday.

Zherog

2008-07-30, 03:42 PM

Either suck it up or get a computer upgrade, and avoid Shatt as much as humanly possible. If you have the Questhelper addon, I'd suggest getting rid of it since I found it tended to cut people's framerates into tiny bits, especially in Outland.
...Yeah, my computer sounds just about as crappy as yours. I'm typically brought down to 1-2fps in Shatt, sometimes as bad as 0.3fps during the initial shock of entering that lag-city. So far, I'm sucking it up, but I'm looking to get a new PC soon.

Yeah, I have the same problem in Shat. My frame rate there is almost always 1-2. I spend as little time as possible there.

Tengu_temp

2008-07-30, 05:02 PM

Jimp

2008-07-30, 05:19 PM

Question for playgrounders on EU servers:
Anyone interested in making a gitp guild like other playgrounders have done on the US servers?

TheEmerged

2008-07-30, 06:28 PM

Death Knights start under Lich King's influence. Only after you finish all your introductory quests you start having actual free will.

I know. I'm talking about the fact that at the end of the chain they stay Death Knights but aren't under his control anymore. I'd rather they stayed under his influence than RP an emo-paladin (a generality I know). I know it'll appeal to others but not to me.

Tengu_temp

2008-07-30, 07:16 PM

I know. I'm talking about the fact that at the end of the chain they stay Death Knights but aren't under his control anymore. I'd rather they stayed under his influence than RP an emo-paladin (a generality I know). I know it'll appeal to others but not to me.

Well, how else would they be working with the Alliance/Horde, then?

TheEmerged

2008-07-30, 09:24 PM

Well, how else would they be working with the Alliance/Horde, then?

I'll bet you think the Warlocks are working for the Alliance/Horde too, don't you :smallwink: <-- (winking, in case it isn't obvious enough).

Seriously, it's a matter of my taste. I had a feeling they'd go this route, I just wish Blizzard had been a bit bolder. I find the "fallen paladin, fighting for redemption by finding a way to use their evil powers for good" to be as much of a cliche as the dark elf running around on the surface with two swords.

But hey, some people are going to like it. I won't mock their choice -- like I said, it's a matter of taste.

Vaynor

2008-07-30, 09:37 PM

I know. I'm talking about the fact that at the end of the chain they stay Death Knights but aren't under his control anymore. I'd rather they stayed under his influence than RP an emo-paladin (a generality I know). I know it'll appeal to others but not to me.

The idea is that they free themselves from his influence and try to use their evilly acquired powers for good. Evil looking powers don't have to be used for evil.

ghost_warlock

2008-08-01, 04:00 AM

I'll bet you think the Warlocks are working for the Alliance/Horde too, don't you :smallwink: <-- (winking, in case it isn't obvious enough).

Seriously, it's a matter of my taste. I had a feeling they'd go this route, I just wish Blizzard had been a bit bolder. I find the "fallen paladin, fighting for redemption by finding a way to use their evil powers for good" to be as much of a cliche as the dark elf running around on the surface with two swords.

But hey, some people are going to like it. I won't mock their choice -- like I said, it's a matter of taste.

I'm not going to make a DK for the simple fact that plate is already horribly overpriced in the AH and DKs are just going to make that worse. Having one lvl 40+ plate-wearer is already too much of a drag on my WBL. Sure, I'd only have to gear the thing for a few levels before hitting Outland, but it still doesn't make any sense to me that Blizzard would make another tank class (and we should all know that Bliz doesn't seriously expect DKs to do anything but tank/OT in the new instances/raids).

Tengu_temp

2008-08-01, 04:39 AM

I'll bet you think the Warlocks are working for the Alliance/Horde too, don't you :smallwink: <-- (winking, in case it isn't obvious enough).

Well yeah, I think that people who go all "I'm a warlock/rogue/death knight who pretends to work with Alliance/Horde but is actually an agent of the Burning Legion/The Syndicate or Defias Brotherhood/Arthas!" are roughly as lorebreaking as lesbian vampire assassin night elves.

I'm not going to make a DK for the simple fact that plate is already horribly overpriced in the AH and DKs are just going to make that worse. Having one lvl 40+ plate-wearer is already too much of a drag on my WBL. Sure, I'd only have to gear the thing for a few levels before hitting Outland, but it still doesn't make any sense to me that Blizzard would make another tank class (and we should all know that Bliz doesn't seriously expect DKs to do anything but tank/OT in the new instances/raids).

Why bother with buying stuff? The best gear drops in instances anyway. I've never seen a character who had to buy gear off AH to be effective.

The_Chilli_God

2008-08-01, 05:10 AM

I've never seen a character who had to buy gear off AH to be effective. *Tentatively raises hand*

One of the drawbacks of leveling off of low-level stuff in Azeroth and then skipping over to Hellfire at 58. My gear sucked so much (Level was in the 40's) that the quickest and easiest way out was through the AH.
Lets face it. When you want it and you want it freakin' NOW, the AH is your new best friend. Even if it charges through your nose.

Leon

2008-08-01, 07:21 AM

There are some good things that are BoE - a friend of mine collected 5 Bringers of Death over the journey to Lvl 70 to equip his team with once they all dinged, got each of them for around 40g

The Felsteel Plate Set is a good intro to a tanking set (or a tanking set for a warrior that would rather not tank.... most of the time)

Zherog

2008-08-01, 08:49 AM

I often use the auction house to upgrade both armor and weapons. But then, I also don't run very many instances either.

*

In other news, I re-specced my mage (who hit 25 last night) to fire. Prior to that, I had been all over the place with ranks in all three. I knew I was specced poorly, but was waiting to make a decision.

So far, it seems quite nice. :smallbiggrin:

*

In other other news, I'm going to re-ask a question from the old thread. I recently started playing a dwarf hunter with some friends. We play once a week for a few hours. I'll almost certainly hit 10th level next game. I don't know much about hunters (yet). What's a good spec for casual group play? Beast Master? We're on a pve server, so pvp isn't a concern.

Archaicwonder

2008-08-01, 09:48 AM

Re: Zherog

I can't speak from personal experience but I've seen two hunters leveled to 70 here in the last couple months and in two different ways:

My wife who defines the words Altoholic and Casual leveled a NE hunter to 70 using a "I Like something to tank for me" method of picking BM talents. Didn't have much trouble.

A friend of mine leveled a hunter to be his farming character, used a marksmanship build that he designed himself, picked up a gorilla as early as he could, took down groups of mobs at a time, had next to no downtime and made hunters look like a god among classes. Looked really hard.

Good luck

Destro_Yersul

2008-08-01, 09:51 AM

In other news, I re-specced my mage (who hit 25 last night) to fire. Prior to that, I had been all over the place with ranks in all three. I knew I was specced poorly, but was waiting to make a decision.

So far, it seems quite nice. :smallbiggrin:

Excellent, you have learned the true way. :smallbiggrin:

Prepare to witness the Fire Mage's Creed!
Point the Firste! If it moves, it must be burnt.
Point the Seconde! If it doesn't move, it must also be burnt.
Point the Thirde! If it's dead, burn it some more just because
Point the Fourthe! If it's elite, get more DPS.

Swordguy

2008-08-01, 11:03 AM

In other other news, I'm going to re-ask a question from the old thread. I recently started playing a dwarf hunter with some friends. We play once a week for a few hours. I'll almost certainly hit 10th level next game. I don't know much about hunters (yet). What's a good spec for casual group play? Beast Master? We're on a pve server, so pvp isn't a concern.

Currently, BM is the way to go for instances or soloing. Survival is all about CC in endgame area and raiding, and if you have a group of hunters, you want one of them to be MM to give out the Trueshot Aura buff. Aside from those, BM is the gold standard in hunter dps-ing ability.

Talent-wise, this (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=11982932&sid=1) is a good run-down of what's good and what isn't. This (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Feathermoon&n=Xindi) is basically the standard "cookie-cutter" BM spec. There's a little room to play in that spec, in areas that don't hurt your dps ability. You can swap the 5 points in Efficiency for 5 points in Improved Hunter's Mark, and you can put the 3 points spread between Improved Revive Pet and Improved Pet Mend in any combination you choose between those two talents.

For any information about pets, check out www.petopia.com

Zherog

2008-08-01, 11:58 AM

Thanks for the links, Swordguy. I'll check them out later (when I'm at home, and therefore not blocked by my company's damn web filters).

Also thanks to Archaicwonder for the info.

So it seems Beast Master would be a good way to go.

*

Excellent, you have learned the true way. :smallbiggrin:

Prepare to witness the Fire Mage's Creed!
Point the Firste! If it moves, it must be burnt.
Point the Seconde! If it doesn't move, it must also be burnt.
Point the Thirde! If it's dead, burn it some more just because
Point the Fourthe! If it's elite, get more DPS.

So I only played around a little bit with it last night. I went to Hillsbrad to do the blacksmith quest. I had been in that area on my previous (inefficient) spec, so it gave me a decent chance to compare. Right now, my cycle seems to be:

Pyroblast (is that the one with the 6 second cast time? If not, I mean the one with the 6 second cast time)
Fireball
Frost Nova and back up
Frost Bolt
Fireball

The Frost Bolt is only there to slow them down when they run away. That cycle seems to be working incredibly well.

The Linker

2008-08-01, 12:28 PM

For any information about pets, check out www.petopia.com

Just to nitpick; though you can just click on the link a bit down the page there, the correct site is actually petopia.brashendeavors.net

*shuffles off into the shadows*

TheEmerged

2008-08-01, 01:59 PM

Thanks for the links, Swordguy. I'll check them out later (when I'm at home, and therefore not blocked by my company's damn web filters).

Also thanks to Archaicwonder for the info.

So it seems Beast Master would be a good way to go.

*

So I only played around a little bit with it last night. I went to Hillsbrad to do the blacksmith quest. I had been in that area on my previous (inefficient) spec, so it gave me a decent chance to compare. Right now, my cycle seems to be:

Pyroblast (is that the one with the 6 second cast time? If not, I mean the one with the 6 second cast time)
Fireball
Frost Nova and back up
Frost Bolt
Fireball

The Frost Bolt is only there to slow them down when they run away. That cycle seems to be working incredibly well.

I presume you're down-ranking the Frost Bolt?

------------------------------------------

Someone asked about where to hunt in the upper 50's. As alliance, I usually do the mid 50's in Un'Goro & Felwood. If you're a skinner or herbalist (let alone both, like my druid alt), that goes double. Felwood is especially common these days because of the bear meat cooking recipe. My druid alt is just about to finish the Felwood run, hit 56. Then I hit Winterspring.

I usually go from Winterspring to the Plaguelands (West & East). Some people recommend going straight to Outland at 58, I did this with my priest alt and came to regret it. If you care about the faction reps, you may want to delay the trip to Outland and instead hit Silithus around 58/59. It's a good idea for the worm meat recipe anyway...

For my druid alt, I'm planning to eventually grind rep in Silithus for RP reasons. He's a druid, these are his people :smallcool: I may do the "go to Outlands, do the gear-up quests, go back to the old world" trick some people recommend.

Vaynor

2008-08-01, 05:11 PM

I'm not going to make a DK for the simple fact that plate is already horribly overpriced in the AH and DKs are just going to make that worse. Having one lvl 40+ plate-wearer is already too much of a drag on my WBL. Sure, I'd only have to gear the thing for a few levels before hitting Outland, but it still doesn't make any sense to me that Blizzard would make another tank class (and we should all know that Bliz doesn't seriously expect DKs to do anything but tank/OT in the new instances/raids).

Ok first of all, DKs get a set of gear in their starting area that lasts until around 65. Second of all, you shouldn't have to buy any gear - ever, when leveling a character. Last, we really need more tanking classes. There are not nearly enough tanks.

I often use the auction house to upgrade both armor and weapons. But then, I also don't run very many instances either.

*

In other news, I re-specced my mage (who hit 25 last night) to fire. Prior to that, I had been all over the place with ranks in all three. I knew I was specced poorly, but was waiting to make a decision.

So far, it seems quite nice. :smallbiggrin:

*

In other other news, I'm going to re-ask a question from the old thread. I recently started playing a dwarf hunter with some friends. We play once a week for a few hours. I'll almost certainly hit 10th level next game. I don't know much about hunters (yet). What's a good spec for casual group play? Beast Master? We're on a pve server, so pvp isn't a concern.

Yah, BM is the way to go for soloing. Send pet in, mark target, auto shot. Loot and repeat.

TheEmerged

2008-08-01, 06:39 PM

Last, we really need more tanking classes. There are not nearly enough tanks.

You're right on the second point, I'm unconvinced on the first one. I think the reason there are not nearly enough tanks is that two of the three tanking classes are a bit of a pain to level in their tanking spec.

DK's are allegedly going to be better about that (like druids are), and if their addition corrects the problem it will be because of that, not the addition of a 4th tanking class. They could just as easily fix the problem by adjusting the protection trees for warriors & paladins to be more solo friendly, IMO.

But then they couldn't say they'd finally followed through on Hero Classes :smallbiggrin:

Poison_Fish

2008-08-01, 07:02 PM

You're right on the second point, I'm unconvinced on the first one. I think the reason there are not nearly enough tanks is that two of the three tanking classes are a bit of a pain to level in their tanking spec.

DK's are allegedly going to be better about that (like druids are), and if their addition corrects the problem it will be because of that, not the addition of a 4th tanking class. They could just as easily fix the problem by adjusting the protection trees for warriors & paladins to be more solo friendly, IMO.

But then they couldn't say they'd finally followed through on Hero Classes :smallbiggrin:

To be fair, they are adjusting the prot abilities of warriors and paladins to be more solo friendly, as well as better itemization. Or at least so far they claim for WotLK.

Zherog

2008-08-01, 07:14 PM

I presume you're down-ranking the Frost Bolt?

Could... could you translate to English for me please? ;)

Yah, BM is the way to go for soloing. Send pet in, mark target, auto shot. Loot and repeat.

I won't be soloing. I'll be with a group of four.

Swordguy

2008-08-01, 07:29 PM

I won't be soloing. I'll be with a group of four.

Okay then. Put you pet on passive, turn off growl, wait for the tank to smack the target, send your pet in, mark target, shoot, loot, repeat. :smallamused:

Vaynor

2008-08-01, 08:09 PM

Okay then. Put you pet on passive, turn off growl, wait for the tank to smack the target, send your pet in, mark target, shoot, loot, repeat. :smallamused:

Exactly. Low level hunters aren't exactly difficult. Except if you're like this one hunter I saw and think that strength, spirit, and intellect are your main stats. *facepalm*

Could... could you translate to English for me please? ;)

He means using a lower rank of frostbolt. Shorter cast time, less mana, and it still slows them.

Zherog

2008-08-01, 08:46 PM

He means using a lower rank of frostbolt. Shorter cast time, less mana, and it still slows them.

Ah. Thanks!

mangosta71

2008-08-01, 10:00 PM

Blizzard in general failed with rogue design. Each class has clear functions on what is each talent tree for - except Rogues, and to a lesser degree Mages. Rogues have Subtlety which is good for PvP AND PvE, and Combat and Assassination which are... not so good.

WTF? Subtlety sucks for raiding. Combat is far superior for sustained dps (well, sword or fist - maces and daggers suck). Mutilate can keep up in a short fight due to the burst, but if a fight goes longer than a minute it falls behind. Subtlety never even comes close. With the huge nerf to cheat death, subtlety is good for PvP if the rogue has max resilience. But a good mutilate rogue is just as good for PvP, if not better.

mangosta71

2008-08-01, 10:15 PM

4) Is a combat spec rogue effective in PVP?

A good combat rogue will make any other rogue cry in PvP. Undodgeable finishers FTW. However, they're weaker against pretty much anything else.

Leon

2008-08-02, 08:13 AM

I won't be soloing. I'll be with a group of four.

BM, you now have a Party of 5

A good combat rogue will make any other rogue cry in PvP. Undodgeable finishers FTW. However, they're weaker against pretty much anything else.

Combat maces if you want to lock someone down and annoy the heck out of them

Tola

2008-08-02, 11:57 AM

lesbian vampire assassin night elves.

Lesbian: That's a given, there's still a decent proportion of male Night Elves asleep.

Assassin: Wardens in general, and Night Elves are good at that sort of thing to begin with.

That leaves Vampirism. Night Elf Death Knight = ???

2 of 3 are justifiable by default.

I apologise, but it....struck me.

Cubey

2008-08-02, 12:09 PM

Lesbian vampire assassin half-demon night elves who knew Arthas personally and made love to Jaina Proudmoore!

Or alternatively, a gnome RPing a human child. With pink hair. And moustache.

On a more serious topic, forget what I said about rogues. All recent experience I have with rogues is from PvP, the rest is just theoretical analysis. Which can backfire in your face.

Swordguy

2008-08-02, 01:03 PM

Tengu_temp

2008-08-02, 04:39 PM

RP servers are made from rule 34. And 36.

TigerHunter

2008-08-02, 04:55 PM

RP servers are made from rule 34. And 36.
Something I've been wondering for a while: where can I find this list of rules?

TheEmerged

2008-08-02, 09:19 PM

RP servers are made from rule 34. And 36.

/humor on
Careful there. Some of us play on RP server :smallredface:
/humor off

Myself included, as I'm mentioned before.

Tengu_temp

2008-08-02, 09:41 PM

Something I've been wondering for a while: where can I find this list of rules?

I know Encyclopedia Dramatica has them, but I can't access it at the moment.

/humor on
Careful there. Some of us play on RP server :smallredface:
/humor off

Myself included, as I'm mentioned before.

I do play at one. I'd never play on another type, in fact (too many pve lollerboys on PVE servers, too many pvp lollerboys on PVP servers, RP-PVP servers are glorified PVP servers). But knowing and liking something doesn't mean I'll pull punches.

Swordguy

2008-08-02, 10:39 PM

I do play at one. I'd never play on another type, in fact (too many pve lollerboys on PVE servers, too many pvp lollerboys on PVP servers, RP-PVP servers are glorified PVP servers). But knowing and liking something doesn't mean I'll pull punches.

I can't really argue the point. I play on Feathermoon, home of the Deeprun Tram (http://www.se7en-x.com/yarhump/) Incident. :smallwink:

mangosta71

2008-08-03, 12:19 AM

I hadn't heard about this one specifically. That's hilarious.

Mattarias, King.

2008-08-03, 12:44 AM

Prepare to witness the Fire Mage's Creed!
Point the Firste! If it moves, it must be burnt.
Point the Seconde! If it doesn't move, it must also be burnt.
Point the Thirde! If it's dead, burn it some more just because
Point the Fourthe! If it's elite, get more DPS.

Hear, hear! It has been heard!
From point the firste past point the thirde!
If it is, it shall be burnt!
Hurrah! Hurrah!
Felomin' Asha!

<.< *Ahem* Re: RP realms:

My girlfriend and best friend play on one. I.. -really- hate having tons of alts. So I have a mage and priest just sitting on Argent Dawn at level seven. I usually just RP with my troll hunter on my usual server when everyone gets together. Hordie (http://wearehordies.pbwiki.com/) night is a celebrated night amongst my friends indeed. Especially since D&D isn't gonna be much of an option come college.

Tengu_temp

2008-08-03, 12:28 PM

Firemages are decent in pve, but pvp as one looks like this (http://firemage.justgotowned.com/).

Scintillatus

2008-08-04, 01:15 PM

I didn't want to give the game away and reveal my renewed addiction, but I need some advice. :smallbiggrin:

So! My Warlock is now level 70, and I'm slowly finishing off the Shadowmoon Valley normal quests (finished the rest, only dungeons and groups left elsewhere), pushing 3k gold already. I do my dailies on a well, daily basis, I'm grindan for profession stuff and reputation stuff.

And I'm getting bored with Affliction. My burst is nonexistant, which is a pain. My "oh shi-" button, Howl of Terror, just results in bigger pulls. Because I rely on the imp, I feel like I'm just standing around refreshing DoTs, and in PvP I seem to get killed really damn quickly, or it's a hiding game in AV involving a lot of spamming Seed of Corruption and a lot of legging it when three Rogues simultaneously Shadowstep behind my back. Skillcoil isn't exactly helping me here.

I'm wondering - is Demonology a reasonable choice for me? I've seen people use it effectively, and it's lauded by various players with various focuses... But I'm one of the dreaded casuals. I play battlegrounds, normal instances, and right now I grind. I'm sort of interested in raids (mostly the 10 man kind, I'll admit), and very interested in Heroics - but I'm not looking for a build that's hyper-specialized, or a bunch of data on coefficients - just advice, warlock to warlock.

Should I respect to Demonology? And if so, could you recommend a build?

Something like this (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warlock/talents.html?tal=050122050203000000000005203013325 0100511351000000000000000000000), maybe?

FieryBalrog

2008-08-04, 06:54 PM

Hey guys- is there a particular server + faction that people here play on? I'm just starting again after over a year and I want to make a new character and preferably play with a community of non-*******s :)

Raistlin1040

2008-08-04, 06:55 PM

We play Alliance on CC. See the World of Warcraft GITP Group thread.

The Orange Zergling

2008-08-04, 11:38 PM

Khanderas

2008-08-05, 02:01 AM

The standards for tanks are ridiculous. I have 13000 hp, 23000 armor, and a 25% dodge chance, and a group for heroic Mechanar just rejected me because of my gear. A couple minutes later, I noticed the group had given up presumably from the lack of a tank. If I wanted to run, say, Magister's Terrace then I would agree I would be undergeared, but one of if not the single easiest heroic in the game? The other day I completed heroic Slave Pens in it's entirety and the only reasons we wiped were due to other people. Slave Pens is as hard (or easy) as Mechanar. Just... graaah. You can't have a t6 tank every run, people. :smallannoyed:
Fully agree. People cleared Heroic Mechanaar WAY before they got Karazan gear and nowadays karazan gear is EASY in pugs. The tier as it was, was Heroics to gear up for Karazan.
Apparantly people got stupider since they demand someone geared in TK/SSC gear to do anything.

Made even more annoying with the adjustments that invariable makes everything easier. One pug to Karazan that we had, had a feral tank in PvP gear, mostly season 2 set + the "batstaff" from Nagrand circle of blood quest (not even earthwarden).
Guess what, we cleared it with him as MT. Even I questioned his abilities to carry us though past the first few bosses. He proved me wrong and I told him so (both my fears he couldn't do it due to gear and after the run, that I was, infact, mistaken).

Had the same thought when I tried to get into PUGs to pass my time. I felt since I overhealed most heals I did, I did not need more +healing. Especially with a fairly good critrate (when you crit every 5 heals or better, why do I need another 150 +healing?) plus hardly denting my manabar.
Everytime they let me on the team with a /sigh and a "lets try it atleast" we got though it just fine.

Destro_Yersul

2008-08-05, 07:55 AM

Unfortunately, I don't have TIME for heroics, or any instances really. Stupid work. This means that I have to live with what gear I can get from quests (non-group), Faction Rep, and the Auction House.

Which reminds me. Having instances as the only way to get to revered with the Sha'tar seems like bad design to me.

The Linker

2008-08-05, 09:47 AM

Mechanar is one of the easiest heroics? Huh, I always assumed it would be based on their original level range. The more you know!

My tiny accomplishment is getting my Blood Elf Mage to Outland and completing Ramparts with an entire group of 60-61 people. Rarely do I get to do an instance without some 70 or at least semi-high level running it with us, and it was fun and challenging. Yeah, we wiped a few times, but everyone was in good spirits, and I think everyone learned a lot. I know I did. I think I might have been the worst party member there, which NORMALLY one would be ashamed of, but it really means that there's four people in the party that are better than you. :smallsmile:

Alright, casual player stops talking now, get back to your t6 and Gladiator Set and Heroic talk. :smalltongue:

Edit: Should have mentioned that this was a PuG that got together in about 5 minutes, so that was also a plus. Yay for good PuGs!

Ryshan Ynrith

2008-08-05, 10:59 AM

Zherog

2008-08-05, 11:03 AM

In my opinion... finish up Nagrand, as well as any quests you still have left from Hellfire Peninsula, Zangarmarsh, and Terrokar. Once you have those all wrapped up, head to Blade's Edge Mountains and do everything there. You should be able to hit 70 without doing Shadowmoon Valley or Netherstorm. And if you're 70 when you hit those, it's easy money since you'll get cash instead of XP.

Destro_Yersul

2008-08-05, 11:18 AM

unless you're crazy, like me. I'm avoiding most of the quests in SMV and all the rest of the Netherstorm ones until WotLK comes out and I can get xp for them again. Money isn't really an issue with me right now. Dailies are wonderful for that.

The Linker

2008-08-05, 11:44 AM

Destro_Yersul

2008-08-05, 11:47 AM

:smallbiggrin: Nothin'. I just want a bit of a head start on the experience. Hate to run out of quests before I hit 80, y'know. I'm looking at YOU, level 50-60 gap...

Swordguy

2008-08-05, 12:17 PM

So I just hit 67 yesterday. Leveling here is so slow compared to Azeroth, but the rewards are nice, and I'm loving the scenery in Nagrand. Anyway, things are starting to get rather tough to fight-is it an issue with my gear, or is that just how things go in Outlands? My armory profile is here (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moon+Guard&n=Kazimierz).

First things first - awesome guild name.

Second, yeah, your gear is a bit low. Basically, if you can afford it, I'd go every 5 levels to the AH and replace as best you can everything you've got thats green and at least 2 levels under your current level with either an AH blue or the best green you can get.

Looking at your profile, you've got some gear that's traditionally Hunter gear (Handguards of Precision, esp). Your belt, pants, shoulders, boots and chest are all at least 5 levels below your current level. I'm not surprised you're finding it difficult to solo. If you go the AH and drop, say, 200 gold, you'll be good for the next 3 levels guaranteed.

The stuff you want to stack is melee AP, melee crit, haste, melee hit (up to 9%), and expertise. You've got pretty good melee hit and crit. I'd look for more AP. You're using Windfury with weapons that fast, right? It's the Enhance Shammy's bread-and-butter right there.

Ryshan Ynrith

2008-08-05, 12:54 PM

Thanks, I do love Terry Pratchett.

Sort of figured that would be the case...just didn't want to drop the money. Oh well, the faster leveling should be worth it. And yes, I am using Windfury. The vast majority of my gear is whatever quest item looked the best, as I have been saving for the epic flyer. Suppose the dailies at 70 should recoup the loss fast enough. Got 2300g from mining and herbalism, which I am very glad I took.

Thanks for the advice!

EDIT: Oh, would the Nexus-Claw and Void-Talon from the dealer in Netherstorm be worth the money/reasonable upgrades?

Carne

2008-08-05, 03:22 PM

I disagree somewhat with the above advice from Zherog. I find BEM to be awful without a flying mount. It's like a maze with sections all at different altitudes. Navigating the place isn't hard, per se, but it is annoying because you can't get anywhere quickly.

If you have any alts, go play those for a few days and let your rested build to 150%. Then get a couple of instance runs in, maybe with something that contains some decent loot for you. Also, the SMV and Netherstorm quests do hold quite a few good quest rewards, so consider doing those early to make the rest of your leveling easier.

Prior to the new dailies, I probably would have recommended saving your quests in the top zones until you hit 70 for the cash, same as Zherog. But you can easily make 100-150g an hour from dailies, and twice that from primal farming. Money is not difficult to come by. Better to do the quests in the endzones ASAP for the item rewards IMO.

You can find the "low-hanging fruit" quest rewards on Wowhead. Navigate to Database=>Items=>Armor (or Weapons), weight stats by your class/spec, and filter by "Reward for quest". You get a few stragglers, such as the rings from Hyjal or Karazhan, so filter out epics too and you should get a decent list of relatively easy to get gear. Some stuff might require a group, but off the top of my head do the following as soon as you can:

* SMV - Spectracles/Ancient Shadowmoon Spirit chain for a great hat (xxxx of Second Sight)
* SMV - Cipher of Damnation chain has good rewards for many classes
* BEM - Death's Door chain for a fantastic neckpiece (Natasha's xxxx)

Zherog

2008-08-05, 03:31 PM

TheEmerged

2008-08-05, 03:42 PM

Happy: I may have lined up a Kara run for my next mini-vacation. If so, I'll be able to notch off one of my pre-WotLK goals!

RE: Saving SMV/NS until WotLK hits. Actually, there's a certain amount of logic to this -- I've debated it for my druid, if he can hit 70 before then. The first zones of Northrend are going to be nuts that first week or two, even though they're splitting it this time. Furthermore, it means you'll be able to hit 80 that much earlier in WotLK, and therefore get money from the quests there.

If I can, I'm going to try and have the druid 70 before he hits BEM. It's too late for my main, I'm reasonably certain she's done every TBC non-group non-Netherdrake quest but one for the Consortium I really need to get around to finishing...

RE: "This is also not my experience." With the dailies or the primal farming? Depending on competition, 100g and hour is doable with the dailies. I oughta know, 1-1.5 hours is how long I can normally play.

100g an hour primal farming, on the other hand, is *very* dependent on the competition both to farm and to sell. I could probably be pulling close to this right now in Skettis with primal water, which spikes to 70-80g each on my server sometimes. At least on my server, the primal fire spots are almost always camped to within an inch of their lives. Primal Mana is the new Primal Life (5g each sometimes on my server), while Primal Life has been approaching 40-50g each lately because people stopped farming them but the market for Primal Mooncloth spiked a bit due to the new herb bags.

Zherog

2008-08-05, 03:50 PM

RE: "This is also not my experience." With the dailies or the primal farming?

Both .

TigerHunter

2008-08-05, 04:03 PM

100g an hour primal farming, on the other hand, is *very* dependent on the competition both to farm and to sell. I could probably be pulling close to this right now in Skettis with primal water, which spikes to 70-80g each on my server sometimes. At least on my server, the primal fire spots are almost always camped to within an inch of their lives. Primal Mana is the new Primal Life (5g each sometimes on my server), while Primal Life has been approaching 40-50g each lately because people stopped farming them but the market for Primal Mooncloth spiked a bit due to the new herb bags.
That seems to be incredibly server-specific. I've NEVER seen a Primal go for more than 20g.

Archaicwonder

2008-08-05, 04:04 PM

That seems to be incredibly server-specific. I've NEVER seen a Primal go for more than 20g.

Everything but Earth are going in the 40's gold range on Azgalor Alliance side...sad really.

Cubey

2008-08-05, 05:01 PM

:smallbiggrin: Nothin'. I just want a bit of a head start on the experience. Hate to run out of quests before I hit 80, y'know. I'm looking at YOU, level 50-60 gap...

Level 70 is already a head start in WotLK. I'm in the beta and I feel like I'm too high-levelled everywhere I go. It's probably because I've decided to do both starting areas - Borean Tundra and Howling Fjord. Each is suited for levels 68-71, I'm not fully done with the Fjord yet and my level is 74. Halfway to 75. So don't worry about running out of quests, worry about them all being green or gray!

On earning money: Quel'Danas itself is a good source of cash. You can earn ~100 gold without leaving the island, not counting stuff you find and vendor or sell on the auction house. The time it takes you depends on a build, but as a DPSer with decent (Gruul's Lair level) gear it takes about 40 minutes. Shouldn't be more than 1.5 of an hour.
@Primal Mana costing 5 g: :smallconfused:
@Primal Water costing 80 g: :smalleek:

Carne

2008-08-05, 05:48 PM

I actually started writing that last post right after Zherog's post... :smalleek: But I had to attend a Chili Cook-off half way through...

Ryshan Ynrith: Now that I know you're an Enhancement Shaman (couldn't check myself, blocked, meh), consider getting the following easy to get weapons:

* Resonating Axe from Measuring Warp Energies in Netherstorm
* Ripfang Paw (I think that's the name) from Declawing Doomclaw in Netherstorm

The first one might be Aldor-only. I *think* there's an equivalent Scryer weapon out there, can't be sure though. Also, any 1H mace or axe "of the Tiger" gr

As far as armor, you don't need so much +hit unless you're up against level 73 mobs (ie. bosses). You're also never going to amass enough +hit to make your white damage always-hit, but getting your special attacks to hit will be good. You can talent for +9% hit (enhancement and resto talents: again, I can't check your build here at work, blocked, meh) so +hit gear isn't really a big thing for an enhancement shammy.

The kind of gear you'll be looking for if you're a min-maxer will be rogue gear, so yeah, leather is the word of the day. There's some high level mail that's good, but the only mail item for shammies I can think of off the top of my head that's better than equivalent level rogue gear is a hat that drops in Sunwell Plateau, and that's a little forward-looking for your current situation. But keep in mind that gearing up with rogue leather may leave you short on int and in some cases stamina.

Also remember, melee AP comes from strength (1 STR = 2 AP), melee crit from agility (don't know the formula off by heart). If you have the choice between gear that gives you strength or an equivalent amount of AP, pick strength, since Blessing of Kings will increase your Strength 10% if you can get it, but won't increase your AP at all. Red gem slots should be for Strength, your metagem slot should be Swift Skyfire.

Having low int from all the rogue gear isn't an issue. If you're in a group with a paladin or two, Blessing of Wisdom should sort that out. Water Shield gives you 50mp5, mana spring gives you a bit more too, and every two minutes you can pop Shamanistic Rage. Mana problems are rare under those circumstances.

So, armor you should be looking for:

* Natasha's Choker, Death's Door chain
* Stealther's Helmet of Second Sight, Specracles chain (and looks fantastic on a tauren!)
* Leafbeard Ring, Exorcising the Treens in BEM
* Farahlite Studded Boots, The Flesh Lies... in Netherstorm

After that, the blue PvP gear you can get for rep from the various factions around the place will be a good start, but does require level 70.

At this point, if you managed to amass the above gear, you should be ripping pretty much everything apart. If you choose to go for the S2 PvP weapons, you'll be putting out easily 600+ DPS with the right totems and shock rotation.

TheEmerged

2008-08-05, 05:59 PM

That seems to be incredibly server-specific. I've NEVER seen a Primal go for more than 20g.

Which is why I said "on my server" there :smallcool: The flip side, TigerHunter, is that on my server I don't believe I've seen Primal Water *under* 20g since I started tracking it (I need it for several tailored patterns and a couple of enchants).

Anything dependent on the AH will vary from server to server by definition. Part of what's happened on mine is that the majority has adopted the "it's cheaper to do dailies than farm", so fewer people are farming the primals and with the influx of extra cash from those dailies there's a general-purpose AH inflation for anything people still want/need that doesn't drop as a result of the regular course of those dailies.

On the contrary, items that *do* drop as a result of those regular dailies (Primal Mana and Sunfury Signets) have plummeted in cost. Used to be you could trade Scryer to Aldor items pretty much one to one, these days it's closer to 3 to 1 and I see people in /2Trade offering 4 and 5 to 1 sometimes. Similarly, motes of mana drop from several of the SSO daily mobs and as such its value has dropped (and it was already one of the easiest to farm IMO), at least on my server.

Netherweave is a special case. It drops like nuts from the new dailies, but due to the Heavy Netherweave Bandage trick it's rare to see this below 3g a stack. Don't laugh, I've leveled the First Aid skill on two separate alts with that trick now and a third will be starting before long :smallredface:

Carne

2008-08-05, 06:00 PM

Seems everyone is going to ninja me today. Of course, waiting an hour between starting a post and finishing it doesn't help :)

Primals: The primal income is indeed dependent on your local server prices. I'm factoring it by selecting one of the four engineer farmable primals and assuming it goes for 30g (air does most places, water gets that high sometimes, shadow is usually a lot cheaper, and mana is hit or miss). With epic mount, 300g (if they sell) is not far fetched per hour.

Dailies: I wrote up a list of the quick ones in the last thread. Again, off the top of my head, there's the Quel'Danas Bombing Runs, Ley Lines, Arcane Guardians, Emmisary of Hate, Mana Residue, Murlocs, Ironspine Ore and Elf Killing quests that'll net you around 90g, Nagrand Survey, Skettis Bombing, Booterang, Ogri'la Bombing for maybe another 30g that can all be done within 1.5 hours. Faster if you have a DPS toon or spec, of course.

Depending on your available time and the number of 70's you own (I have a guildie who has 3 and does 2 hours of dailies on each of them when she has time) you can make 250g per toon per day. If you're farming for cash and committed, the above two activites, while dull after a while, can net you enough money for regular flying training every day, or an epic within a week.

I have to admit, I really don't have the time or the endurance to do more than, say, 2 lots of dailies totalling about 300g in a day, and that's a rare event.

Vonriel

2008-08-05, 06:41 PM

I thought I'd put this out there, as personal experience:

My main is a ret paladin, and in pre-70 instance gear, with an oathkeeper and a red belt of battle, he can do the isle-specific dailies within 45 minutes, and those'll net you over 100g when you factor in vendor trash. The way I go: The three greengill coast quests (murlocs, ore, leyline), then loop back around and down to the two demon portal quests (kill/impale, leyline), then under the bridge to the two elf quests (kill, leyline), and then to the western part of the isle for those two quests (ward, golems). Once this is done, do the bombing runs, and you're finished. The bloodberry quest is sort of in all three areas, but is easiest in the western part with all the wretched.

Now, for other stuff:

On the shaman, remember that he's questing in Nagrand right now, which means about 95% of the mail available is geared towards hunters. Oh, and, do yourself a favor: You have lucrative professions, use them to get decent gems from the AH, or, preferrably, from a JC friend/guildy. Note that for melee classes, your weapons are a huge part of how quickly you kill things, and you should definitely make sure they never fall more than a couple levels below you.

On the leveling discussion, I was within a few bubbles of level 69 when I finished Nagrand, because I did a lot of instances leading up to then to get gear. I wound up hitting SMV somewhere around 1/4 the way to level 70, and the one quest chain that starts with you killing infernal attackers wound up getting me one bubble from 70 by the end. Unfortunately, the other quest chains (one specifically mentioned, the gorefiend chain with the <helm> of second sight reward) are a lot harder to accomplish at that level, or even impossible without a flying mount. I think I wound up doing a couple of the easier SMV quests to get that last bit of experience.

/walloftext :smallbiggrin:

Carne

2008-08-05, 06:42 PM

* Farahlite Studded Boots, The Flesh Lies... in Netherstorm

I, of course, meant Flesh handler's Gloves. The boots come from the A Fate Worse Than Death quest in Netherstorm.

Zherog

2008-08-05, 07:30 PM

the Heavy Netherweave Bandage trick

Elaborate, por favor?

Netherweave fluctuates wildly on my server, with the price anywhere from 1g 90 s ( :smallmad: ) to about 5g.

Leon

2008-08-05, 07:38 PM

The stuff you want to stack is melee AP, melee crit, haste, melee hit (up to 9%), and expertise. You've got pretty good melee hit and crit. I'd look for more AP. You're using Windfury with weapons that fast, right? It's the Enhance Shammy's bread-and-butter right there.

Almost right, your going to want Str and lots of it - Its 1 Str for 2 AP and Slow Weapons are better for Windfury (It has a 3sec hidden cool down and the slower the weapon the better to maximize the damage done

EDIT: Oh, would the Nexus-Claw and Void-Talon from the dealer in Netherstorm be worth the money/reasonable upgrades?

The Nexus Claw is a great weapon, the talon is a bit fast for a Shaman but is passable untill you can get a slower weapon (if your Aldor you can get a Axe named the resonating Axe that matches the Nexus claw)

TheEmerged

2008-08-05, 09:25 PM

Elaborate, por favor?

Netherweave fluctuates wildly on my server, with the price anywhere from 1g 90 s ( :smallmad: ) to about 5g.

Well, at the risk of losing this one the way I did the Halaa trick (it's been a good month since I got that one to work...).

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=21991#comments

Short version: a stack of Heavy Netherweave Bandages will sell to a vendor for 6 gold. So anytime you sell a stack of Netherweave for under 3g plus whatever the AH deposit is, you're losing money.

The reason Blizzard hasn't done something about it? The time it takes you to convert 30 stacks of netherweave into 15 stacks of bandages is high enough that it's not generally worth the effort.

Please note that this is an in-game economics trick, not an exploit. The time it takes to do usually makes it prohibitive unless you can walk away from the computer for a while, and works best if you happen to have an alt that just learned the pattern and can use the skillups :smallbiggrin:

The Halaa trick, since you'll inevitably ask? :smallwink: If your faction controls Halaa reliably, one of the vendors there sells 3 green-quality throwing daggers (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30599#disenchanting) you can buy one at a time. It will usually disenchant into a Greater Planar Essence (sometimes 2 or 3) that sell on the AH for much more. Thing is they're limited restock items, and enough players know about this that it's been a good month since he had any when I stopped there.

RE: Death Knights & Professions. I didn't see anyone else mention this. As of right now in the beta, DK's start off with 270 First Aid -- and have to train everything else up the old fashioned way. I suspect therefore that the market for Mageweave and Runecloth when WotLK hits will go even nutsier than they are now :smallredface:

Destro_Yersul

2008-08-05, 09:40 PM

Primals: On my server it's usually around 4-5g for Earth, 18-19g for mana and life, and 30+ for everything else. Since I'm alchemy, I can make a killing on my transmutes. Shame Transmute Master doesn't proc more often, or I'd be swimming in gold. It helped a lot when I was aiming for my Belt of Blasting as well. I saved well over 100g just by buying primal mana instead of fire and transmuting them as I went about my other business.

Carne

2008-08-05, 09:41 PM

Elaborate, por favor?

Netherweave fluctuates wildly on my server, with the price anywhere from 1g 90 s ( :smallmad: ) to about 5g.

I'm guessing it's: if you see Netherweave stacks on the AH for < 3g you buy it, make bandages, and vendor them for 3g. Or something. Never done it myself, good for making repair change.

Kool-Aid

2008-08-05, 11:01 PM

I love the game but I can never stick with a class, I have R.P.G. A.D.D.

mangosta71

2008-08-06, 12:57 AM

Ryshan, something that I'm surprised only one person has mentioned is that enhance shamans want the slowest possible weapons. You shouldn't even consider anything faster than a 2.4, and 2.6 or 2.7 weapons are plentiful.

I personally play alliance side on Whisperwind. My guild is pretty far into endgame - we've got t6 cleared up to Illidan. The downside of raiding is that, with my work schedule and nightly raids, I don't have a lot of time to mess around with alts. If I'm online, I'm either raiding or farming so I can afford to raid.:smallfrown:

Zherog

2008-08-06, 06:51 AM

Well, at the risk of losing this one the way I did the Halaa trick (it's been a good month since I got that one to work...).

>>snip<<

Thanks - for both. The Halaa trick would never work for me, though. The only time Horde gets Halaa on my server is when Alliance loses it on purpose so they can take it again. http://forums.gleemax.com/images/smilies/nonono.gif

Poison_Fish

2008-08-06, 12:23 PM

Re: Shaman

As one Shaman (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cenarion+Circle&n=Gijan) to another, these websites will be your friends

For finding better gear (http://www.maxdps.com/shaman/enhancement.php)

For theory crafting (http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t20765-shaman_enhancement/)

That being said, slow weapons are your friend. Also, flameshock/earth shock is a good shock rotation.

TheEmerged

2008-08-06, 02:31 PM

That being said, slow weapons are your friend. Also, flameshock/earth shock is a good shock rotation.

Yeah, it's been what I've used on my shaman alt (and I'm >95% solo). Typically I use Flameshock as the pull, Earthshock after Stormstrike has hit. This gives time for Flameshock to get all its ticks, doing quite a bit of damage.

Right now, my off-hander is too fast but that's because he just got the HFP and hasn't found a proper replacement yet. I'm probably going to have to end up getting a BoE off the AH and enchanting it.

Poison_Fish

2008-08-06, 04:43 PM

Yeah, it's been what I've used on my shaman alt (and I'm >95% solo). Typically I use Flameshock as the pull, Earthshock after Stormstrike has hit. This gives time for Flameshock to get all its ticks, doing quite a bit of damage.

Right now, my off-hander is too fast but that's because he just got the HFP and hasn't found a proper replacement yet. I'm probably going to have to end up getting a BoE off the AH and enchanting it.

Well, the other reason I like FS/ES is so I can devour your Stormstrike hits as an elemental shaman. Mmmmm, damage.

mangosta71

2008-08-06, 05:02 PM

Stormstrike is also nice for those big envemon crits. :smallamused:

Leon

2008-08-06, 08:42 PM

Who knows what else is going to come along in the Expansion but This (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=37032) is looking to be a Awesome Shaman weapon

TheEmerged

2008-08-06, 10:03 PM

Who knows what else is going to come along in the Expansion...

Seriously. I'm getting carpal tunnel trying to keep up a scorecard of all the mage beta changes right now. A *lot* of talents jumped around on the last beta build...

Tengu_temp

2008-08-06, 10:13 PM

Who knows what else is going to come along in the Expansion but This (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=37032) is looking to be a Awesome Shaman weapon

It feels gooooood to be in the beta.

Poison_Fish

2008-08-06, 10:17 PM

It feels gooooood to be in the beta.

Indeed it does!

Mattarias, King.

2008-08-06, 10:35 PM

Seriously. I'm getting carpal tunnel trying to keep up a scorecard of all the mage beta changes right now. A *lot* of talents jumped around on the last beta build...

You've got that right. ._. By all that is fiery, I can't tell if elemental precision is still on the first fit of the frost tree or not. I am -not- putting 8 points in frost just for that.

Archangel Yuki

2008-08-07, 12:18 AM

Stormstrike is also nice for those big envemon crits. :smallamused:

Preach it!
:D

mangosta71

2008-08-07, 12:51 AM

Who knows what else is going to come along in the Expansion but This (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=37032) is looking to be a Awesome Shaman weapon

*sigh* Look at all the quest rewards listed there. Every one of them is ideal for the classes that would wield them except the dagger. I mean, if they can give warriors and shamans a 2.9 speed weapon, they should be able to give rogues a 2.0 speed dagger (not that it really matters for me, as I'll be using 100+ dps weapons from Hyjal/BT/Sunwell, but still...).

Leon

2008-08-07, 08:11 AM

You've got that right. ._. By all that is fiery, I can't tell if elemental precision is still on the first fit of the frost tree or not. I am -not- putting 8 points in frost just for that.

Heh, i like the change - forces more than a toe in to get something well wanted

Zherog

2008-08-07, 01:12 PM

Hunter noob questions...

-- How often do you need to feed a pet?

-- Last night after my pet attacked, I got a "you learned growl" or some such. Where is it (I couldn't find it in my spellbook) and what's the purpose of me knowing it?

-- Obviously, some pets are better than others. Is there a quick and easy way to tell what's better? Or is it pretty much common sense?

Tormsskull

2008-08-07, 01:48 PM

Hunter noob questions...

-- How often do you need to feed a pet?

Anytime they aren't happy with you. If you feed them up, IME this lasts about an hour or more.

-- Last night after my pet attacked, I got a "you learned growl" or some such. Where is it (I couldn't find it in my spellbook) and what's the purpose of me knowing it?

I don't recall ever seeing a message like that. But if you open your spell book, you should find an ability called Pet Training (The icon is like a slingshot). When you click that it will bring up the prompt of abilities that you can teach your current pet.

-- Obviously, some pets are better than others. Is there a quick and easy way to tell what's better? Or is it pretty much common sense?

Not so much anymore. They use to vary widely, now each type is all that matters. I.E., all "cats" are the same, all "spiders" are the same. If you check out thottbot it breaks down the different classes of animals and gives their strengths and weaknesses.

As a personal favorite, I always went with cats and bears because they both eat fish, and it makes getting them food really easy if you are also building up fishing (or have any alt that is).

Happy hunt(er)ing.

Zherog

2008-08-07, 02:07 PM

Anytime they aren't happy with you. If you feed them up, IME this lasts about an hour or more.

Man - I'm going to run out of bag space. I already lose an entire bag slot by having to have an ammo pouch. Now I need to take up space with pet food. Sheesh. :smalltongue:

I don't recall ever seeing a message like that. But if you open your spell book, you should find an ability called Pet Training (The icon is like a slingshot). When you click that it will bring up the prompt of abilities that you can teach your current pet.

I'll have to look for that.

So... I can learn an ability from one pet and teach it to another?

Not so much anymore. They use to vary widely, now each type is all that matters. I.E., all "cats" are the same, all "spiders" are the same. If you check out thottbot it breaks down the different classes of animals and gives their strengths and weaknesses.

As a personal favorite, I always went with cats and bears because they both eat fish, and it makes getting them food really easy if you are also building up fishing (or have any alt that is).

Happy hunt(er)ing.

I'll see if I can dig up some info on thottbot later (since my employer blocks the site).

Thanks for the info.

Kool-Aid

2008-08-07, 02:52 PM

http://petopia.brashendeavors.net/ is also a nice site for pet information.

Carne

2008-08-07, 03:08 PM

Man - I'm going to run out of bag space. I already lose an entire bag slot by having to have an ammo pouch. Now I need to take up space with pet food. Sheesh. :smalltongue:

Yep. Buy big bags is the only advice I can give there.

I'll have to look for that.

So... I can learn an ability from one pet and teach it to another?

If you want your pet to know pet skills such as claw, bite, dive, screech, dash, gore etc. you'll have to tame new animals, make them fight mobs until you learn their skills, then abandon them. After that, you can teach it to your regular pet/s.

You'll also have to do this to increase your ranks of said skills: if ou have a cat with Bite 3, you'll have to find and tame something with Bite 4 to improve your pet's Bite. Different pet families can learn different skills: you can't teach Dive to a boar, for example, or Prowl to a spider.

To tame another animal, you'll need to buy a stable slot and stable your current pet, or else you'll have to abandon it, which is not really a good option.

Growl you get for free every ten levels. Any time your pet dings to a level ending in 0, teach it the new Growl. It's how your pet keeps threat on a target beyond DPS.

Also see pet trainers for some "generic" skills, such as armor, stamina, resistances, avoidance etc. Once you learn the skill, use Beast Training to teach your pet.

I'll see if I can dig up some info on thottbot later (since my employer blocks the site).

Thanks for the info.

I second Kool-Aid's link to Petopia.

--

All this will be moot in Wrath when Blizzard change the way pets learn and level abilities, but that is beyond the scope of your current inquiry.

TheEmerged

2008-08-07, 04:26 PM

Personal Update.

The druid alt hit 58 today turning in quests. I've decided I'm going to finish him out in Silithus, since it's Cenarion Circle rep and these are his people after all. It very much looks like he's going to repeat my shadowpriest/alchemist's experience with Herbalism hitting 375 before he leaves HFP -- he might even make it to 360 before he goes through the Dark Portal. Training costs this time were pretty nuts -- but then most of his combat abilities just upgraded so I am SO not complaining about it.

Officially scored Elemental Leatherworking on my rogue alt today. It's funny, before TBC hit I was playing the rogue so much it was looking like she might become my main. I think I got more experience today from traveling and that one quest turn-in than I have since TBC hit on this character. Depending on how long it takes my main to daily-up the money for the druid's +100% riding skill, I may level her a bit while the druid gets a full head of rest XP. She needs 4-5 levels to get her lockpicking high enough to clear through my stash of Req225 lockboxes.

The rogue's LWing has benefitted from the druid's leveling, because the Druid is skinning/herbalism right now in preparation for going Scribe/Herb when WotLK hits. I was originally sending all the skins to a friend's LWing alt, but since Thick Leather I've been sending it to my rogue/LW instead. I seriously doubt that the druid is going to get enough Rugged Leather over the next two levels to finish out the rogue's LW to 300 though.

Have you guys heard of the new Recruit-A-Friend benefits? They're pretty nuts. On one of the other WoW boards I frequent one of the posters claims to have leveled a mage to 58 in under 12 hours played thanks to the triple XP bonus (he has a screenshot, but is of insufficient personal character for me to believe this easily).

Still haven't heard back on the possible Kara raid I may be able to get into Tuesday. If I can get in, that would clear off one of my pre-WotLK goals (seeing the inside of Kara). I'm actively working on getting the druid to 70 before it hits, depending on what happens with his rest XP I'll then look into getting my other alts to 60.

Based on a certain fear I have though, getting the alchemist and JC alts to 375 in their skills is a bit of a priority too. The JC alt is pretty close (367) but I haven't been having as much luck selling his gems & making brilliant glass the last week as I had before. The alchemist will benefit from the druid's efforts to level to 70 (the plan right now is to get 2-3 stacks of every herb, then send the excess to the alchemist), but I'm concerned about getting my hands on higher-leveled formulas when she's not actively leveling.

The Linker

2008-08-07, 04:34 PM

Man - I'm going to run out of bag space. I already lose an entire bag slot by having to have an ammo pouch. Now I need to take up space with pet food. Sheesh. :smalltongue:

Oh, it's only one space. :smalltongue: I just buy one full stack of meat, which keeps me for several hours. I know the Innkeepers in Exodar and Ironforge sell meat for sure, but I'm not sure about the other capital cities. It's likely, though. Next time you're in a capital city, ask a guard for the innkeeper and load up on meat. I know there's also a Meat Vendor in Darnaussus, wandering around the lower-right district.

Of course, while most pets eat meat (and some ONLY eat meat) not all of them do. Then you just better pray it eats fish, or you may have to do some hunting (figuratively, and no pun intended) to keep it from running away. :smalltongue:

And yeah, Petopia is pretty much THE Hunter pet resource. I can almost guarantee that if you spend enough time there, you'll know everything there is to know. Very helpful and well-written in terms of clarity.

Zherog

2008-08-07, 05:30 PM

Oh, it's only one space. :smalltongue:

Oh, hush! If I wanna get all emo about it, I will. :smalltongue:

Right now, I'm good. I'm still killing enough bears and wolves and boars that I'm getting a decent amount of meat to drop -- which is upping my cooking skill as well as feeding my pet.

Carne

2008-08-07, 06:43 PM

Oh, hush! If I wanna get all emo about it, I will. :smalltongue:

Right now, I'm good. I'm still killing enough bears and wolves and boars that I'm getting a decent amount of meat to drop -- which is upping my cooking skill as well as feeding my pet.

Keep an eye on your combat log when you feed your pet. You pet will require higher level food as it levels up. So while Tough Jerky will suffice for a new pet, it'll eventually get to the point where it won't eat it at all.

Your combat log will show appropriate food as regenerating 35 happiness per tick over ten ticks. As the pet levels, the same food will only regen 17 per tick, then 8, then 0 (pet refuses to eat this latter food). So with lower level food you'll have to feed more to your pet in order to bring it to full happiness. Your pet will eat some higher level food, but will only get 35 happiness per tick max.

As an example of that last point, my level 70 cat on my main-server hunter gains 35 happiness from both Smoked Talbuk Venison (second best meat), and Clefthoof Ribs (best meat). Given the ribs are more expensive than the Talbuk, I generally choose the latter option when buying meat from the vendor.

With meat you find in the wild or fish that you catch, I wouldn't worry too much about feeding your pet higher level food since it's all free anyway :)

Also, as mentioned above, always feed your pet as soon as it drops from Happy to Content (green to yellow) because the happiness level determines how much damage your pet inflicts - dropping to Content is a 20% reduction if I'm not mistaken (125% to 100% normal damage). To help you notice when this occurs, I recommend Fizzwidget's Feed-o-Matic. It can be set to give you an auditory warning whenever your pet's happiness falls below a preset level (so cats will roar, spiders hiss, boars oink etc.)

Also! Full happiness occurs at about 340-350 happiness over the transition point from Happy to Content. So if you feed your pet exactly one best level food, it'll regen 35 x 10 ticks = 350 happiness points, which will bring it to maximum happiness and thus the longest time available between having to feed it again. Your pet loses happiness over time (unknown amount), when taking damage (unknown amount) and when it dies (approx. one "best food" feeding, or 350 happiness). Pets with lower loyalty than 6 will require more frequent feedings as their happiness reduces at an increased rate.

Zherog

2008-08-07, 08:39 PM

Petopia is definitely a good resource! Thanks for the link!

Kool-Aid

2008-08-07, 10:00 PM

Petopia is definitely a good resource! Thanks for the link!

No problem :smallwink:

I REALLY need to start playing again but I'm having trouble picking a lass anybody have some sort of site, maybe a quiz that would help me choose? I've been playing for almost a year 364 days to be exact, but the highest level character I have is 45.

Athaniar

2008-08-08, 04:39 AM

I, myself, am really a heavy roleplayer. I also have too many alts. Also, all of my characters (except for one) are seemingly insane. Sigh. Look, it's not my fault, OK! It's my characters' fault!

Oh, and does anyone here play on the european Sha'tar server? Except for me, of course.

And another question concerning the new WotLK talents: the new hunter beast mastery über-talent (aptly named Beast Mastery) says that it allows the hunter to tame "exotic pets". What kinds of pets are these? Dragons and such?

Also, my WoWWiki user page. I don't think for a second that anyone is actually interested, but still... (http://WWW.WoWWiki.com/User:Xavius)

Swordguy

2008-08-08, 06:53 AM

And another question concerning the new WotLK talents: the new hunter beast mastery über-talent (aptly named Beast Mastery) says that it allows the hunter to tame "exotic pets". What kinds of pets are these? Dragons and such?

DEVILSAURS (http://www.bigredkitty.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/picture-1.png)....

Quincunx

2008-08-08, 07:10 AM

*headdesk* If only I had looked at cooking recipes earlier. I was mailing the tiger meat to my baby warlock for later cooking and giving the mystery meat to my husband's pet.

The druid and the implied hunter are equal-leveled now, so I'm shifting footing to the baby warlock, who might well take over as she did in EQ. What is with the roleplayers who keep trying to throw me out of the Cathedral of Light? I can't park pet outside the way I do at the AH, the leash range is insufficent, (cue gnomish voice) an' there's No Parkin' Your Pet signs all over Cathedral Square an' Brother Sarno said hihi to me so am not unwelcome an' you're just being a big meanie (cue gnomish voice dwindling over the sound of hustling bootsteps).

Jimp

2008-08-08, 09:59 AM

Destro_Yersul

2008-08-08, 10:26 AM

I have a submission for the position of 'most obnoxious mob in WoW'.

Monstrous Kaliri, from Skettis. hate. hate hate. hate hate, really hate, loathe entirely. hate hate hate.

Archaicwonder

2008-08-08, 10:30 AM

Kaliri didn't used to be that bad when they couldn't chase you straight up, now, I agree Destro.

@Jimp

I feel your pain, though my guild at least blunders through kara some weeks, when you can't run instances it feels like there is no point to the game. I started a new character over on CC with The Playgrounders, and started a hordie on another server where a friend plays to compensate. When I can I log on to my orginal characters and hang out with old friends, when they aren't around I hang otu with new friends on new servers ;)

Jimp

2008-08-08, 10:33 AM

@Jimp

I feel your pain, though my guild at least blunders through kara some weeks, when you can't run instances it feels like there is no point to the game. I started a new character over on CC with The Playgrounders, and started a hordie on another server where a friend plays to compensate. When I can I log on to my orginal characters and hang out with old friends, when they aren't around I hang otu with new friends on new servers ;)

I'd join the other playgrounders but I'm on the EU servers :smallyuk:

Carne

2008-08-08, 10:39 AM

After hitting 70 I've sort of run out of things to do.
/whine on
My guild isn't a raiding guild, it's mostly social and comprised of members of my old raiding guild from last year and some new faces. Most of the old raiders don't have the time now so that's why we're not raiding. As far as rep grinding is concerned, things aren't that bad, but I've gotten to the stage with most of them where the only way to get to revered is to run instances a lot. Seemingly nobody does instances out-of-guild anymore on my server. Especially tempest keep runs, which is the one instance I really need. The PUG situation is even grimmer for heroics, though that could also be down to my shaman's lack of CC. Plenty of Kara PUGs around but I'm usually told that I'm undergeared :smallsigh:. My alchemy is maxed at 375, though I'm still waiting on a botanica group to finish my potion master quest and on revered with shat'tar for recepies. Enchanting is at 355, again needing revered with factions for more recepies. I would PvP all day but I lack the res to make my shaman even vaguely viable. I have dual S2 axes with crusader, so my damage output is decent, but my armor is a mix between 70 blue pvp set and the Dungeon 3 set. In PvP I'm more of a glass cannon than most casters :smalltongue:.
/whine off
That felt good. Sorry for venting everyone. I'm thinking that once I manage to hit 375 enchanting I'll give my shammy a break until wotlk and play my priest or try an RP server.

Suggestions:

Do your dailies as often as you can.

Move your shaman to a guild which runs instances if your current guild won't run Bot. Alternatively, advertise on Trade that you're willing to pay 100g to a group to run it (25g for each member).

Get dual Mongoose on your S2 weapons (dailies will cover the cost) - hit up /Trade if you don't know anyone. Crusader is good as a cheap alternative, but Mongoose > all.

If you have dual S2's, even unenchanted, your DPS should be over 500 in Kara, which will probably not be on the very bottom of the DPS chart for a PUG - you may need to advertise your actual DPS in order to get in. Maybe installing a DPS meter to accurately gauge your DPS instead of relying on a rough estimate from some random person on the Internet might be a good idea :smallbiggrin:

You state that you have the honored faction PvP armor. If your gear sucks for PvE, this will give you a boost (especially in stamina) and is plenty good enough for Kara.

When picking up PvE gear from drops, generally avoid mail unless you're absolutely sure it's an upgrade. As a DW enhancement shaman, typically rogue leather is going to be much better for you. Ignore the need to boost your int or mp5 - Water Shield, Shamanistic Rage, Mana Spring and the Focused self-proc-buff all serve to keep your mana usage under control. If you can get Blessing of Wisdom too, you're set. If you really do find yourself running out of mana (maybe on a long boss fight) chug your Mad Alchemist's pots - they're cheap, and you shouldn't need more than one per fight.

No-one in their right mind is going to pass up a shaman for Heroics. I'd much rather an enhancement shammy than a rogue, for instance. Sure, the rogue brings Sap for humanoid mobs, but the shammy brings self-rez, rez for everyone, backup heals, kiting ability, near-rogue DPS, party buffs, situational ranged damage etc. Don't sell your class short - it rocks!

The Linker

2008-08-08, 10:40 AM

Also! Full happiness occurs at about 340-350 happiness over the transition point from Happy to Content. So if you feed your pet exactly one best level food, it'll regen 35 x 10 ticks = 350 happiness points, which will bring it to maximum happiness and thus the longest time available between having to feed it again.

I recommend the Petopia article on this very subject for exact details. :smalltongue: But I'd also like to add that checking your combat log is a good way to make sure it's at full happiness, like so;

Snuffles gained Feed Pet Effect.
Snuffles gained 35 happiness from Feed Pet Effect.
Snuffles gained 35 happiness from Feed Pet Effect.
Snuffles gained 35 happiness from Feed Pet Effect.
Snuffles gained 35 happiness from Feed Pet Effect.
Snuffles gained 35 happiness from Feed Pet Effect.
Snuffles gained 35 happiness from Feed Pet Effect.
Snuffles gained 35 happiness from Feed Pet Effect.
Snuffles gained 35 happiness from Feed Pet Effect.
Snuffles gained 35 happiness from Feed Pet Effect.
Snuffles gained 35 happiness from Feed Pet Effect.
Snuffles gained 21 happiness from Feed Pet Effect.
Feed Pet Effect fades from Snuffles.

Since your pet won't go over the happiness limit, the last tick will be lower if it reaches the limit. Also, watching for 'Feed Pet Effect fades from Snuffles.' is regardless a good way to check when your pet's done eating and it's OK to start killing stuff again, since Snuffles taking damage ends the effect.

TheEmerged

2008-08-08, 08:02 PM

We're starting to get more and more info. Last build saw a LOT of talent changes for the mage class, and it looks like Priests, Shaman, and Paladins have inscriptions now. A bunch of druid inscriptions, as well as a singular hunter and mage inscription (each), were already known.

We also have the interesting news that so far only Frostweave cloth is dropping in Northrend. Contrast this with the way Runecloth continues to drop in Outland. Of course, Netherweave drops like mad in Outland so I don't know how much of a demand there's going to be for it when WotLK hits.

This does add credence to the notion that if you want your professions at 375, you might want to work hard at it before WotLK hits. We already knew Primals were being replaced (not a surprise but a little disappointing), and if what happened to the 250-300 range of most professions when TBC hit is any indication mats for that range are going to be hard to come by when WotLK hits.

Perhaps not *quite* as bad, since there's likely to be quite a community rushing their Death Knights through Outland. Still, there's some stocking up to be done I think.

Swordguy

2008-08-08, 08:11 PM

This does add credence to the notion that if you want your professions at 375, you might want to work hard at it before WotLK hits. We already knew Primals were being replaced (not a surprise but a little disappointing), and if what happened to the 250-300 range of most professions when TBC hit is any indication mats for that range are going to be hard to come by when WotLK hits.

As someone who hasn't been keeping up on WotLK changes, can you elucidate on this? Primals are my primary money source...

Carne

2008-08-08, 08:36 PM

As someone who hasn't been keeping up on WotLK changes, can you elucidate on this? Primals are my primary money source...

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?items=7.10&filter=na=crystal

Destro_Yersul

2008-08-08, 08:57 PM

Was to be expected, I suppose. Ah well, I'll just switch to transmuting those and if any of them end up working like primal earth, I'll probably make a killing.

TheEmerged

2008-08-08, 09:33 PM

As someone who hasn't been keeping up on WotLK changes, can you elucidate on this? Primals are my primary money source...

As Carne showed, "replaced" might not have been the best choice of words. There's going to be a new rank of elements in WotLK, meaning that primals are going to be almost as hard to get as Essense of (insert here) was when TBC was release. I was hoping that motes would continue to drop for a while in Outland (the way runecloth did in TBC) or that there would be some built-in conversion between the primals and what is replacing them, but so far no such luck.

Jimp

2008-08-09, 08:55 AM

On the plus side when Outland begins to empty out the current farming hotspots, such as Throne of Elements, should also empty out as people farm Northrend mats. This should make it easier to grind the mats yourself, rather than paying extortionist AH prices.

Ego Slayer

2008-08-10, 12:26 PM

TigerHunter

2008-08-10, 01:55 PM

Blergh. Y'know the shift-click on a name for info... how do you turn that back on? The whole interface reset, and I can't freakin' find how to enable the shift-clicking. Which is weird anyway, 'cos isn't that supposed to be default?
That happens from time to time with me. I think it's just a bug, 'cuz I can't click or right-click on their names when it happens.

Try /rl or re-logging.

Healos

2008-08-10, 04:50 PM

Ego Slayer had asked for me.

That happens from time to time with me. I think it's just a bug, 'cuz I can't click or right-click on their names when it happens.

Try /rl or re-logging.
:smallyuk: It works now. Re-logging must have been what fixed it. Thanks.

Ego Slayer

2008-08-10, 07:44 PM

... I'm not going to vent about my Pally's ZF group, but... a Shadow Priest with a "do it yourself" attitude for a healer is not something I want to endure again. :smallannoyed:

Anyway, on to my personal pet peeve!
My brother is convinced that as a 63, Arms 33/Fury 21 Warrior, he can throw on a shield and tank. Apparently he does it but it terrifies me to think that someone, who is long past SM Graveyard, would tank without being Protection. Not only is it harder on you as a tank to keep aggro, but it's more work on the healer, no? :smallyuk:

Leon

2008-08-10, 07:51 PM

Its certinally easier to tank as a Prot spec but any warrior who has a shield and knows what to do can tank regardless of spec.

Mattarias, King.

2008-08-10, 10:30 PM

:smallbiggrin: Heheh. Speaking of strange tanks, my RP group was gonna run SM cath yesterday, but our tank passed out drunkenly and the healer fell to pieces (read: They needed to go to bed.) so we were left with a party composition of this:

Biyori(Me.): 35 Troll hunter. Recently respecced to Beast Mastery.
Reore: 39 balance druid.
Wessely: 39 blood elf rogue.

Soo.. We had Sammy, my raptor of awesomeness, tank. :smallcool: The druid was heals and a bit of dps, and the rogue DPS/offtank.

:smallbiggrin: We kicked butt. Without any CC, too! Sure, it got a bit hairy after Whitemane, but we finished that fight without a wipe. :smallbiggrin: Most fun I've had in a while. Was great. Heheh.

Swordguy

2008-08-10, 11:12 PM

Cubey

2008-08-10, 11:23 PM

My brother is convinced that as a 63, Arms 33/Fury 21 Warrior, he can throw on a shield and tank. Apparently he does it but it terrifies me to think that someone, who is long past SM Graveyard, would tank without being Protection. Not only is it harder on you as a tank to keep aggro, but it's more work on the healer, no? :smallyuk:

You're not being reasonable. A shadow priest or even a friggin' MAGE can tank, so a warrior can do it easily despite the build - the class can equip shields and spam Sunder Armor regardless of specialisation, doesn't it? Of course, I'm not talking Heroics or any raid dungeons, even simple Karazhan - just normal instances. Requirements for non-heroics are rather simple: being a good tank doesn't take talent spec or gear, but only knowing what you are doing.

mangosta71

2008-08-10, 11:23 PM

My brother is convinced that as a 63, Arms 33/Fury 21 Warrior, he can throw on a shield and tank. Apparently he does it but it terrifies me to think that someone, who is long past SM Graveyard, would tank without being Protection. Not only is it harder on you as a tank to keep aggro, but it's more work on the healer, no? :smallyuk:

A competent player can tank without being prot. Yes, it is easier if he is. But prot is a terrible levelling spec for warriors. The only reason to be prot as a warrior is if all you want to do on your character is tank instances, because doing anything else is even more tedious than it is for everyone else.

Cubey

2008-08-10, 11:30 PM

Also, on the "more work for the healer" part. That's what healers are for. And even a mediocre one can easily outheal damage a non-specced tank takes, excluding accidents like bad pulls or standing in fire.

Ryshan Ynrith

2008-08-10, 11:55 PM

First off, belated thanks for the help. I've torn and slain my way to 69, and I've decided to PVP a bit to grab a pair of these (http://thottbot.com/i31965). It's proven more effort than I thought-I've gotten all the tokens for both, but I only have 17500 honor of the 36000 I will need. Any advice on getting honor quickly? Right now I'm already swapping BGs and doing "For Great Honor" repeatedly.

Khanderas

2008-08-11, 02:09 AM

Any advice on getting honor quickly? Right now I'm already swapping BGs and doing "For Great Honor" repeatedly.
Last time I checked (yesterday) Alterac Valley is still the undisputded king of Honorgrinding. Even when it is not AV weekend. Absolute worst is WSG since they often stall into both teams having a flag and defends it. Arathi Basin and Eye of the storm are farily even I feel.

Carne

2008-08-11, 02:47 AM

Grind AV for honor, and the others for the marks. On AV weekend, don't bother with the others at all unless you really have to, because the honor really is That Good.

As the owner of the axe you linked, I have to say that it's very very nice indeed, and looks great to boot :)

Khanderas

2008-08-11, 02:52 AM

Shortened quote about enhancement shaman and its ability to find groups for, mainly TK and Karazan
Non-cc dps does have a hard time to get into groups. Partly because people can't really shake the now untrue hybrid dps being lower then dps from classes that do nothing else and that they often feel you should play tank/healer instead of dps.

My advice would be to not join a group, primarily. Set it up. That way (as leader) you will get a spot :smallsmile:
Befriend a tank and possibly a healer as well and you are good to go.
You can do the same for Karazan, although it is quite abit harder and the guild should be the ones to be able to help out with this.
Another solution may be to respec resto near the end of the karazan reset time, do the Karazan run as a healer, heal it again the day after when it reset, and then spec back to enhancement. Depending on healinggear naturally.

Ego Slayer

2008-08-11, 09:43 AM

You're not being reasonable.
No, I am. I've always just been really fastidious about proper specs, since I've too many times gotten people who aren't spec'd for their role (heals or tank) and consequently can't adapt to the role they're taking not because of spec so much as experience (if you're going prot you're tanking, if you're going dps but don't tank often you haven't got the tanking xp of the prot). Read: The shadow Priest for healer in ZF, as I just mentioned. Happened enough times that it peeves me, and I at least had the interest to ask if a Warrior really could tank without being Prot.

And keep in mind, I have a lowbie Pally tank... and I'd probably make a crap tank if I wasn't Prot.

Carne

2008-08-11, 11:23 AM

At your level, you'd make for a tank which wasn't as good as a prot pally, but you'd still be able to tank. Gear makes up for a lot, as does the behaviour of the rest of the group - if they wait a few seconds for you to establish threat nd watch their own threat, it can work. I've tanked Arc on my fury/arms warrior. Sure, the Kara-geared destro warlock spent most of her time not shadowbolting and the priest burst a blood vessel in his forehead, but it can be done.

Now, if you were Holy and focused on non defense gear, then I could foresee a problem.

Similar to your story, I'm reminded of the Stockades run I did recently. The warrior was invited with instructions to tank, but kept his 2 hander on and presumably didn't bother switching to defensive stance. Damn run would have taken forever with the rest of us gimping our DPS so as not to pull aggro. Luckily, the DPS feral we brought shifted to bear and all was good.

Had the warrior had a sword and board, and switched stances, we would have been fine.

I'm also reminded of a Wailing Caverns run I was in about 2 years ago as healer. I was leveling my first priest, he was shadow (for the soloing) and was high enough level to have gotten Mind Flay. At the end of one of the pulls (there was one or two mobs left) I decided to speed up the demise of the mob and tossed in a Mind Flay or two. Prior to this, I'd ensured everyone's health was topped off and a Renew was on the tank. I had plenty of mana, so I commenced with the nukage.

I got yelled at by the hunter for not healing.

IIRC, this was also the run where the (overlevel) shaman ended up tanking more than the warrior we brought because the actual tank was spending so much time chasing the warlock (a guildie of his) who was off pulling more mobs with his wand before we'd finished off the previous group.

It got to the point where I hung back with the shaman and the warlock and his friend ran about 100 yards ahead to the next group. Needless to say they died without any healing or DPS support, and the warlock typed (in ALL CAPS) "REZ ME!!!!!" I responded "Run back" String of invective followed. I respond with "There will be no rezzes for you so long as you keep pulling mobs" "I'm not pulling, you ^%$" "Yes you are, I'm watching you run up and wand things that aren't in combat yet" "&$%&^$ &$&%$ &^$^$!!!"

Shortly after the warrior and warlock are booted from the party. The shammy, hunter and myself continue on for some time, but as the mob levels get higher it's increasingly more difficult to continue. The hunter drops, then the shaman and myself are forced to concede defeat.

Ego Slayer

2008-08-11, 11:33 AM

Cubey

2008-08-11, 11:47 AM

What you describe, Ego Slayer, is not a problem of grouping with people with inappropriate talent builds. It's a problem with grouping with people who are stupid and incompetent.

Carne

2008-08-11, 11:53 AM

Guess it could work if you were higher, or on par with the rest of the group. I already had one hell of an impossible time trying to keep aggro in the first group because there was a 48 and a 50 with us (they could hold their own, but that's not the point.) Iono how Warrior Prot works, but all my aggro gain is through spell damage, and did I not have the Prot talent which ups the spell threat, it definitely could be a super pain. >.<

SoR should do the trick, in conjunction with the threat multiplier ability (whose name I forget even after playing a paladin for 18 months... :smallannoyed:) You'd have plenty of mana to just spam Consecrate too.

As for Ret, hmmm. Might work given a decent 1H weapon, but maybe not. I'm thinking SoR would still be the way to go, and Consecrates would be a bit more difficult if your mana pool isn't great.

Probably does qualify as a super pain, though.

And your Stocks story reminds me of the first time I had a healer. Deadmines, and the damn Feral tank wasn't staying in Bear form. I had to yell at him so many times to get back in it. 9.9 I think that group also had the mage who was pulling... who I just stopped healing at one point.

Heh, been there, been yelled at for it :) Losing one DPS doesn't usually wipe the group, thankfully.

Ego Slayer

2008-08-11, 12:05 PM

SoR should do the trick, in conjunction with the threat multiplier ability (whose name I forget even after playing a paladin for 18 months... :smallannoyed:) You'd have plenty of mana to just spam Consecrate too.

As for Ret, hmmm. Might work given a decent 1H weapon, but maybe not. I'm thinking SoR would still be the way to go, and Consecrates would be a bit more difficult if your mana pool isn't great.

Probably does qualify as a super pain, though.
Righteous Fury is where it's at. It starts out as 60% and with the improvement talent puts it at 90%. I guess it could be possible with Ret, but there aren't currently (at my level, 45) any good 1h maces that I know of, so I wouldn't do it. :P Consecration is a pain in the arse to spam because it costs so much. I've got a pretty good pool, but I'll definitely run out, especially in mob-intensive pulls. At least with the added thread gain of Righteous Fury, you wouldn't have to spam it as much. Which is kinda the point, I guess.

Ryshan Ynrith

2008-08-11, 02:27 PM

Urgh...Khanderas, are you Alliance by any chance? Because I've done AV all day, and we can't win for crap on Horde side. :smallfurious: Takes so long to get such a pathetic amount of honor.

Carne

2008-08-11, 02:33 PM

Righteous Fury is where it's at. It starts out as 60% and with the improvement talent puts it at 90%. I guess it could be possible with Ret, but there aren't currently (at my level, 45) any good 1h maces that I know of, so I wouldn't do it. :P Consecration is a pain in the arse to spam because it costs so much. I've got a pretty good pool, but I'll definitely run out, especially in mob-intensive pulls. At least with the added thread gain of Righteous Fury, you wouldn't have to spam it as much. Which is kinda the point, I guess.

That first bit should have read "For Holy, SoR should do the trick[..]" etc. I already assume you know how to prot tank :) That should make the comment about Consecrate spam more contextually appropriate :smallsmile:

Just clearing that up in case it's not obvious to everyone :smallwink:

Swordguy

2008-08-11, 02:49 PM

Okay...I call hax.

I just got 1-shotted by a bloody melee hunter in Arathi Basin a little while ago. (Sorry, no screenshot - I was too upset to remember to take one). Now, I'm not an uber-geared player; I'm in mixed Merciless Gladiators and Gladiator's gear...but one-shotted for 10k health? By a hunter?

Boo to that.

Vonriel

2008-08-11, 03:05 PM

On the tanking discussion:

Warriors have it easy, considering that probably half their abilities are good for tanking, if not more. A decent warrior can tank in any spec of his choice, though protection is definitely preferred.

However. Please do not ever force a paladin that isn't prot to try and tank. Offtanking can be done, but main tanking is damn near impossible, considering the two biggest threat generators paladin tanks get are at 31 and 41 points in the prot tree. Before you say it, crusader strike does physical damage, and seal of command is too hit-or-miss on the typically fast 1h tanking weapons. I'm not saying it can't be done, but unlike a warrior who can just switch stances and only have to add sunder to his spammed list of strikes, paladins have it incredibly harder to go from dps to tank. And if you're inviting a holy paladin to tank, well, you should be smacked upside the head on general purposes.

The Linker

2008-08-11, 03:24 PM

The_Chilli_God

2008-08-11, 03:40 PM

Mm, nah, that's about the kind of gear my rogue had at 58, if I remember. Albeit with better weapons (Sang'thraze, for example). But the rest was so crap a guildie went to the AH and threw a whole bunch of Hellfire greens at me.

Carne

2008-08-11, 03:57 PM

However. Please do not ever force a paladin that isn't prot to try and tank. Offtanking can be done, but main tanking is damn near impossible, considering the two biggest threat generators paladin tanks get are at 31 and 41 points in the prot tree. Before you say it, crusader strike does physical damage, and seal of command is too hit-or-miss on the typically fast 1h tanking weapons. I'm not saying it can't be done, but unlike a warrior who can just switch stances and only have to add sunder to his spammed list of strikes, paladins have it incredibly harder to go from dps to tank. And if you're inviting a holy paladin to tank, well, you should be smacked upside the head on general purposes.

Perhaps it would never ever happen in a perfect universe, but come on, it's fun to theorycraft! :smallbiggrin: My Holy pally tanked Netherspite once. Okay, so the red beam's a tanking gimmick, but still :)

As for Linker's rogue, if you're 58, why wouldn't your first objective be to upgrade to the HFP clown-set weapons?

Though I'm one to talk about anti-twinkage. I'll typically only ever use what drops or is available as a quest reward. As such I have no idea what my shaman's weapon upgrades are going to be as I head into the 50's :| Horde has a number of excellent options from Feralas quests. Alliance... not so much (a holdover from when they didn't have shamans perhaps). There's good stuff in BRD, but aside from that it's crap. Maybe I will go do that Sharpbeak quest and take the weapon after all. Shiny pants come and shiny pants go, but the quicker you can mercilessly butcher something the safer you are.

Cubey

2008-08-11, 04:47 PM

However. Please do not ever force a paladin that isn't prot to try and tank. Offtanking can be done, but main tanking is damn near impossible, considering the two biggest threat generators paladin tanks get are at 31 and 41 points in the prot tree. Before you say it, crusader strike does physical damage, and seal of command is too hit-or-miss on the typically fast 1h tanking weapons. I'm not saying it can't be done, but unlike a warrior who can just switch stances and only have to add sunder to his spammed list of strikes, paladins have it incredibly harder to go from dps to tank. And if you're inviting a holy paladin to tank, well, you should be smacked upside the head on general purposes.

I'm not forcing a paladin to tank. I'm rebutting the arguments of Ego Slayer who tries to force non-tank specced paladins/warriors/druids NOT to tank. If they want to, they certainly can - even if it means that, in case of the pally and the druid, the DPSers will have to, le gasp, constrain themselves a bit lest they pull aggro. And such a tank is better than nothing, and certainly enough for a non-heroic instance or all but the most hardcore outside group quests.

Ego Slayer

2008-08-11, 06:37 PM

I don't force anyone to do anything. :smallannoyed: I simply prefer, when setting up a group myself, to take people who are spec'd for the job.

Leon

2008-08-11, 07:25 PM

Levling a Prot Spec warrior is like leveling a Holy spec paladin - slow, boring and painful (cept a prot warrior will proably die more often since they cant heal)

Pallies tanking is a different type to a Warrior (or Bear to a degree)
Warriors (And Bears) who know what they are doing and have the right gear can tank at the drop of a Hat
In my mind All Warriors should carry a 1H weapon, a Shield and some basic defense gear. you may not be able to tank a Heroic or what not but you can do a Normal dungeon/Outdoor elite encounter without the need for gimping your self in solo play

Harder on healers.... Not so much if they are doing it right, its More harder on healers if the rest of the party also don't give the tank some lead time - Irregardless of the Spec/Gear/Tank Type everyone should allow for that initial build up time of rage. Its more work for both the Tank and the Healer to save the over zealous DPS.

TheEmerged

2008-08-11, 10:52 PM

To all of you who have some sort of crazy ideas in your head that you're bad off in terms of gear, I present my level 58 Blood Elf Rogue. (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Llane&n=Daenerian) (in the process of leveling it now, so it could be like 61 by the time some people see it.)

Honestly, I deserve an achievement or two for this. "Anti-twink: Get to level 60 without replacing your weapons after level 35. As a friggin' rogue." "But the health regen!: Have far more Spirit gear than any rogue should."

Surprisingly, though, I can't remember being able to kill enemies any faster on my Human Rogue, who, I presume, had better weapons at this level. *shrug*

Don't feel bad, The_Linker, you'll replace all that gear very early when you get to Outland -- the "Hellfire Penn Effect".

RE: Tanking as Off-Specs. My friend, who plays a tankadin, puts it better than anyone: "Unless you're paying for my subscription, don't pretend to tell me what I am and am not capable of." I've watched him heal BM as tank spec, and tank as heal spec back when he was a healadin. Yes, it's *easier* for him to tank in tank spec (I'd *much* rather have him tanking BM, he's got it to a bloody science).

You'll find that a good hybrid player tends to be VERY touchy about this.

Leon

2008-08-12, 12:27 AM

Every Warrior is a Tank, Some just don't know it

Ego Slayer

2008-08-12, 09:45 AM

Okay, okay, so... I don't have to bitch at my brother when he tells me he tanked BF. Fine. :P

In theory, if you've actually got a good second gear set, anything can be done. Except Heroic. That's where the line is drawn. :smalltongue:

Still, I think a point stands that you can't just accept and trust every off-spec shmuck who wants to play an opposite roll. Not every one of them is going to be reliable. Hell, sometimes the well-gear ad experienced heals and tanks aren't on their game that run. I just think of having someone who lacks the advantage of correct spec-age, who is not on their game. *shutter*

Tengu_temp

2008-08-12, 09:57 AM

I've seen off-spec people offtank raids and do fine. As long as you have proper tanking gear, you can tank heroics no matter what's your spec.

I think not being able to know all the roles your class has the potential to do is being made of fail. I'm a balance druid, I'm specced for damage and that's what I like to do most, but I know how to tank and how to heal - I absolutely loathe healing, but I still know how to do that. And I expect others to do the same.

Needless to say, those expectations often aren't met.

TheEmerged

2008-08-12, 10:23 AM

I think not being able to know all the roles your class has the potential to do is being made of fail. I'm a balance druid, I'm specced for damage and that's what I like to do most, but I know how to tank and how to heal - I absolutely loathe healing, but I still know how to do that. And I expect others to do the same.

See, I'm still learning how to tank on the druid. It doesn't help that he's only been in one "real" instance group, and there was a higher-leveled feral druid in the party then so he was off-tanking. But I've "mini tanked" enough non-instance content (with small groups of 2-3) that I think I can do it when he hits 60 (and he hit 59 last night).

Healing I've done before as a priest and shaman, but I haven't tried healing as a druid yet. Because of the way I've rush-leveled him, I haven't even built a healing set for him yet.

In the Bad News department, my tankadin buddy got hacked this weekend. I noticed he wasn't talking in guild chat but since unlike me he has a life, I didn't think anything of it Saturday. Sunday though, when I saw his warlock in Shadow Lab and again not talking, alarm bells went off. See, we've been doing SLab just about every Sunday lately because his paladin and my mage both need the rep -- and he's told me before that he doesn't need anything in SLab for any of his other chars. So I called him at home? He's been out all weekend, literally had just stepped back in the door.

Scary part of it is he's computer savvy and almost as paranoid as I am. You'd better believe my password got changed post-haste :smalleek:

The Linker

2008-08-12, 10:51 AM

In the Bad News department, my tankadin buddy got hacked this weekend. I noticed he wasn't talking in guild chat but since unlike me he has a life, I didn't think anything of it Saturday. Sunday though, when I saw his warlock in Shadow Lab and again not talking, alarm bells went off. See, we've been doing SLab just about every Sunday lately because his paladin and my mage both need the rep -- and he's told me before that he doesn't need anything in SLab for any of his other chars. So I called him at home? He's been out all weekend, literally had just stepped back in the door.

Scary part of it is he's computer savvy and almost as paranoid as I am. You'd better believe my password got changed post-haste :smalleek:

Oh, wow. That's pretty scary. To see your buddy online, knowing it's a completely different person behind the keyboard, taking control of him... eek. :smalleek:

Anyway, I guess my original post was a bit angrier-sounding than I intended it to be. I was just in a state of disbelief that I can manage to get along with such low-level stuff, especially my daggers. Ah, well. One more level*, and I get to hit Outland and watch my DPS triple! :smallbiggrin: I can't wait to see my first ambush crit with a new Outland dagger. *drool, drool*

*It's just my little tradition to go to Outland at 60, no sooner, no later. Besides, my mining's at 295 or something. Though I can't seem to find any $^&@$ mining nodes... what's a good place to farm Thorium?

Edit: @V: Alright, thanks, I'll look into it. :smallsmile:

Carne

2008-08-12, 11:22 AM

It's just my little tradition to go to Outland at 60, no sooner, no later. Besides, my mining's at 295 or something. Though I can't seem to find any $^&@$ mining nodes... what's a good place to farm Thorium?

Silithus, EPL, Winterspring for Rich Thorium Nodes. SW Un'goro isn't bad either. For regular Thorium, any 50+ zone will have at least one node in it somewhere, generally speaking.

I have a tradition of going to HFP for the weapons upgrades at 58. Sometimes, I stay; sometimes, I return to Azeroth. But in either case, the weapon upgrades are one of the absolute best things you can do for your character at 58.

TheEmerged

2008-08-12, 12:18 PM

It's just my little tradition to go to Outland at 60, no sooner, no later. Besides, my mining's at 295 or something. Though I can't seem to find any $^&@$ mining nodes... what's a good place to farm Thorium?

Well, I went to Outlands @ 58 on my shadowpriest/alchemist, and frankly it was a mistake. I've kept my shaman and my druid in old-world until 60 and it has worked well (okay, the druid isn't quite 60 yet but you know what I mean).

Now, I've heard people follow Carne's suggestion (jump to Outlands at 58 for the gear-up quests, jump back to old world and run it dry), and it may work. I've never tried it so I can't vouch for it, though. Maybe if I can get the druid to 70 well before WotLK, I can try that with my rogue/warrior/hunter.

RE: Mining. The question isn't so much "where's thorium", but "where is thorium that other people aren't competing for". On my server at least, there are still plenty of people farming thorium.

In my experience with the shaman, the answer is Silithus. There's a fair amount of ore in the hives and such and not nearly the competition you're going to see in Winterspring (I think he found all of 2 nodes the whole time he leveled there) and the Plaguelands (but I was only there for a short while).

Vonriel

2008-08-12, 03:22 PM

On the thorium subject, yes, Silithus has a ton, but it's mostly down inside the bug hives, which means fighting your way through a bunch of level 58-60 bugs for the most part. I liked EPL myself, because you could ride past all the undead to the rich nodes (and there were typically three rich and two small per circuit) and then kill the 2 or 3 that were still on you.

Route: The route took me from LHC to that undead base on the hill just north of there, to the troll ruins, into plaguewood, circling down and back around the mountains in the middle there just before you got to the last tower, up to the undead base in the hills in the southwest, down to the mountains on the southern border, east to just before Tyr's Hand, and finally back north to the chapel. Wash, rinse, repeat, and as long as you're the only one mining, by the time you get back to the chapel the ones that you hit first should be respawning.

As for offspec tanking, I give up. Everyone prefers to be so maniacally pedantic about it (Oh, I know guy X out of the 10000 guys on my server who can tank while ret, therefore you must be wrong!) that I'm not going to bother.

Edit: I have two level 70 paladins, one ret, one prot. Just so's you know.

Wardog

2008-08-12, 03:46 PM

On the subject of poorly-asigned group roles:

A couple of weeks ago, my enhancment-spec shaman joined a PUG going to RFK, as the designated healer.

While I wasn't healer speced, and have very little experience in that role, I think I would have done OK...

...if the hunter, rouge, and retribution-spec paladin hand all (apparently) decided to try to both pull and tank, with no coordination on which mobs to target. (And often without waiting for me to get my mana back).

Carne

2008-08-12, 03:49 PM

I have a 70 paladin, holy spec. I can't tank for crap, even prot spec. So I get Ego's point - as Holy, not only do I not have the gear, I don't have the experience.

If you really want to get into mining full-time and make it easy, I recommend Cartographer, the Cartographer Mining database pack, and Routes. All are Ace2 mods, IIRC. I recommend it to everyone (as <The Playgrounders> may be aware by now :smallbiggrin: ) as it really does make it a lot easier.

Wardog: Ouch. Unless you had some int gear, you'd have been sitting on, maybe, 6 Healing Waves, max, untalented at 2.5 seconds each?

Zherog

2008-08-12, 04:54 PM

On mining: if you're horde, there's a mine in the Blasted Lands, just to the left as you enter the area from Stonard. I forget the name of it. But I've had lots of luck Mining thorium in there. You'll also score a fair amount of mithril and mageweave.

I'm pretty sure alliance can't mine in there, though there's thorium scattered around the rest of the blasted lands, too.

The Linker

2008-08-12, 05:04 PM

Hmmmmm? Why wouldn't Alliance be able to mine in there? I know the place you're talking about, but I've never seen mining nodes restricted by faction. :smalleek:

Anyway, I got to 300 mining easily -- thanks for the advice all, I didn't even have to do any real hunting before I got to Outland :smallbiggrin: -- but now I think I'll have to do some hunting anyway. Gotta get my Jewelcrafting to 300... why can't they still drop some old-world gems in Outland!? My only real option is to farm Thorium and prospect the crap out of it. I actually bought quite a bit of mats off the AH, but the recipes are just getting more and more expensive. Ah, well.

I might delve into the Silithus mines; being a Rogue, I might be able to sneak by the mobs and have to fight only a few. But maybe I should just wait a few levels, and level up my Jewelcrafting later. I don't HAVE to do it now, right? What do you guys think? :smallsigh:

Carne

2008-08-12, 06:27 PM

It's because the mobs in there are friendly to Alliance. Can't go having an easy mob-free area for one faction to go farm, it wouldn't be fair. Heck, they took out the free Fel Iron and Felweed nodes from around the Dark Portal ages ago (but not before I mined 1500 Fel Iron Ore to prospect on my Jewelcrafter, mua ha ha!) and they were all non-faction specific.

I'd wait a few levels. Having already leveled a JC, you don't get any interesting stuff anyway until you learn blue cuts, and those happen at 350 JC, so you'll still have a metric crap ton of Fel Iron and Adam Ore mining and prospecting to do before then.

The lead-up to 300 takes an awfully large amount of Azerothian Diamond and something else (Huge Emerald?) but at least the proceeds can be disenchanted. I don't envy you: I did that grind once, I really don't want to do it again.

The Linker

2008-08-12, 07:03 PM

Well, I'm at 292 JC now. Reeeeeally empty pocket, though. Tomorrow I'll set out for Silithus.

The other painful grind I need to do now is my Lockpicking. Tyr's Hand isn't really a friendly place. :smallfrown: Unless maybe I can find 28 people with stowed-away lockboxes...

The_Chilli_God

2008-08-12, 07:24 PM

I got to 300 lockpicking on the doors and the locked gate lever at BRD trick thing.
You can skill-up, like, 20 points per hour, and if you're steath-smart you won't aggro a single mob. And it's an awesome follow-up from grinding lockboxes at Searing Gorge.

Heh. I remember I came across a BE rogue who was doing exactly the same thing I was. We were both eying this one lockbox which was guarded by a mob, and the BE made the first move. I sneaked in to ninja it, but she then vanished, mob goes onto me, and the idea to vanish right back occurred to me only after the mob was dead and the chest was counter-ninja'd.

TheEmerged

2008-08-12, 10:31 PM

Hmmmmm? Why wouldn't Alliance be able to mine in there? I know the place you're talking about, but I've never seen mining nodes restricted by faction. :smalleek:

Because, like Carne said, it would be practically-free Thorium for the alliance. And I will personally vouch that the alliance couldn't mine there when I took my shaman through there.

RE: Lockpicking. Chilli, what's the trivial numbers on that door? That is, when can you start it & how long can you get skillups from it? My rogue isn't there yet but will need it for the future.

The_Chilli_God

2008-08-12, 11:01 PM

RE: Lockpicking. Chilli, what's the trivial numbers on that door? That is, when can you start it & how long can you get skillups from it? My rogue isn't there yet but will need it for the future.The hell if I can remember.
I think they're pickable at 250 and go green at 300 (By which point you're in Zangarmarsh stealing Feralfen chests anyway). Not sure if they can go gray yet. But don't quote me on those numbers.

Khanderas

2008-08-13, 01:46 AM

Urgh...Khanderas, are you Alliance by any chance? Because I've done AV all day, and we can't win for crap on Horde side. :smallfurious: Takes so long to get such a pathetic amount of honor.
No, never managed to level alliance past teen levels. Mostly because I felt it was boring, uninspiring and problebly with a touch of treason. For the Horde !
Winning AV is more fun and we do that on occation, (even with AV looking like it is) the sad truth is that losing (but with taking down bunkers, Balinda and a few GY's) is still more bonus honor / hour then say WSG where just one flag cap can take that long and no flag caps = no bonus honor at all. Very rarely does AV stall nowadays so that mean fast games.
Oh the main loss of losing AV is you get fewer badges and frankly, who needs AV badges ? It is mainly annoying to me when I am at the 100 badge limit. Sure potions can be bought, but even that won't take care of the AV badge pile.

So AV is almost always over fast (10-15 minutes), decent amount of bonus honor even when lost (assuming bunkers are down and such). Practically never stalls (although Horde win ratio seems to go up when we do it oldschool, since we have a harder time winning a pure race) and short queue times (varies ofcourse, but lotta players + fast finish = lots of new AV's set up).

If you can get a premade setup, then EotS and AB can bring fast Honor (and badges for "For great Honor") but otherwise, while fun, brings less Honor / Hour in general.
Ok, you might need WSG badges for stuff and it really should be done in premades (heck I prefer to meet a premade when in WSG, as that often means a fast loss that is way more preferable then a slow loss).

None of the above matter if you LIKE another BG, but it is (mostly) true when we are talking abut efficiency.

Leon

2008-08-13, 07:18 AM

My Shaman has the EotS Marks needed for my 2 maces but I'm not looking forward to the grind of honor to finish them off... i Really hate more than a few games of Pvp a day. But i do stay with it if i happen upon a AV weekend

mangosta71

2008-08-13, 09:38 AM

I can sympathize with all the JCs out there. I spent about 10k on levelling up and buying patterns when I did that. But I also did it over a single weekend, so I probably spent more than someone who levels it along with a character. Or even someone that can mine. At least herbing = tons of money.

Jimp

2008-08-13, 09:46 AM

I miss the older days of AV lasting for seemingly EVER. I was playing a lock back then and was co-leader of the guild. Grouped up with our guild leader and got ready for a long ass AV. At the end we were first and second in damage done, honourable kills, killing blows and I was surprisingly high in healing done due to being affliction spec and doing a LOT of draining.
Them were the days *sniff* :smallfrown:.
I'll just brace myself to be out-nostalgia'd by people who played before TBC :smallbiggrin:.

mangosta71

2008-08-13, 10:16 AM

My first ever AV game lasted more than 7 hours. After about 3 hours, we'd been pushed back to the DB bridge, where we held for another 3 hours. Then, as this we before cross-realm BGs, we won by attrition - the Horde had fewer replacements for people who fell asleep/had to leave for RL issues. When their O faltered because of people leaving and not getting replaced, we surged through and wiped them out.

The Linker

2008-08-13, 10:56 AM

I got to 300 lockpicking on the doors and the locked gate lever at BRD trick thing.
You can skill-up, like, 20 points per hour, and if you're steath-smart you won't aggro a single mob. And it's an awesome follow-up from grinding lockboxes at Searing Gorge.

Ohhhh, thank you thank you. You have saved me from the agony of Tyr's Hand. HATED that place on my human rogue. It's not fun walking around for a whole hour and not finding any lockboxes!

I actually had fun leveling it up yesterday, from the Slag Pit in Searing Gorge. As I searched, I made sure to pickpocket each and every mob along the way. Got like 5g, and about 20 junkboxes, which didn't hurt the skill-upping. After I got to 255 Lockpicking or so, I was able to pick my gigantic stockpile of 250 junkboxes (skill needed, not.... I didn't have 250 junkboxes. I wish.) that I collected in my journeys. So, now I'm at 272, and it's off to BRD! :smallbiggrin:

I don't... I don't actually KNOW the 'doors and the locked gate lever at BRD trick thing', but I figure I'll figure out a path as I go. I know the doors directly to the left of the instance portal, but that's about it. :smalltongue: It's explorin' time!

You know what I'd like? An inscription that makes Distract have no cooldown. Yeeeeah, that'd be nice. 10 seconds, maybe.

Vonriel

2008-08-13, 11:31 AM

I think that's the door he's talking about.

And, if your wish came true, I'd give up on my paladin and forevermore play my hunter. Unless there was an inscription that took away my bubble's cooldown, too :smallamused:

mangosta71

2008-08-13, 11:50 AM

The Linker

2008-08-13, 11:54 AM

I just started the lockpicking, and I was hoping to get here to correct myself before anyone else would get a chance. :smalltongue: Yeah, I realize now I just need to do these four doors three doors and one big gear lock thing over and over and over.

And, if your wish came true, I'd give up on my paladin and forevermore play my hunter.

Now, why would you play your Hunter if Distract was a low cooldown? Yer not thinking of Misdirection are you? Distract is the Rogue move that makes people face towards not-you.

Edit: Nnja'd! And that nerf seems harsh. 70-75% seems more reasonable than 50%. I dunno, we'll see how well it works. Can you bubble in arenas?

Edit edit: Crud. "Too many instances entered recently."

Now what? :smallfrown: Guess I'll come back later.... 291 lockpicking is fine for now. Again, thanks a TON, Chili. You've saved me hours. :smallbiggrin:

mangosta71

2008-08-13, 12:06 PM

Edit: Nnja'd! And that nerf seems harsh. 70-75% seems more reasonable than 50%. I dunno, we'll see how well it works. Can you bubble in arenas?

Yes. It's a 5 minute CD. Anything less than 20 is allowed in arena.

Mr. Mud

2008-08-13, 12:36 PM

Okay, this might be a little irrelevant, but Is there a way to pay for WoW with something like a gift card type thing? Or atleast something that doesn't require credit cards or checks, that I presumably could stroll down to a local store and buy? :smallconfused: Sorry if this is out of place, its just been bugging me all day.

The Linker

2008-08-13, 12:48 PM

Yeah, exactly that. You can get two-month cards at, say, EB Games, and possibly Wal-Mart. Definitely EB Games. Then you can just scartch off the back and put the code in at worldofwarcraft.com

For bonus points, try fooling someone into thinking it's a 'scratch-and-win' thing, and entering the code at the website gives them a chance to win two months of FREE game time!

Mr. Mud

2008-08-13, 01:09 PM

Ahh, yay! Now one more quick question... I don't have the optial computer to say it nicely... how much RAM do I need for WoW without lag (or atleast a tad bit of lag, but still very playable)?

Also, Graphics don't matter... Say, On the lowest of everything, about how much RAM is needed/recommended?

The Linker

2008-08-13, 01:34 PM

Well, reading from the bottom of the box, Minimum Required RAM is 256 MB. Recommended RAM is 512 MB.

So, I took yous guys advice and spelunked in the Silithus hives for Thorium. Got 71 ore after exploring all three. :smallbiggrin: I've been very unlucky on skill-ups in Jewelcrafting, however. A Yellow gave me one for three, wasting two Azerothian Diamonds, and a green gave me zero for three, wasting three Large Opals. Maaaaaan.... :smallfrown:

mangosta71

2008-08-13, 01:34 PM

I wouldn't recommend any less than a gig. That's what my comp has, and I've been thinking I should upgrade that for a while now.

Mr. Mud

2008-08-13, 01:37 PM

Well, reading from the bottom of the box, Minimum Required RAM is 256 MB. Recommended RAM is 512 MB.

Hmm... anyone wanna sell me RAM? :smallbiggrin:

No, just kiddin', I have a gig-ish... but I might get the game then... Anyone else newly started? (I know a crapload about it, one of my best friend had it... (Ronsian on GitP)...)

If I get it, what sever are most of y'all on?

Thanks guys,
:smallbiggrin:

The_Chilli_God

2008-08-13, 02:03 PM

We got a GitP guild running on Cenarion Circle US, so you might say that most of us play there (among other realms).

<.< I could have sworn the minimum RAM was 512mb... I definitely know my computer didn't meet the minimum RAM requirement and it currently has 384mb.

TigerHunter

2008-08-13, 02:18 PM

<.< I could have sworn the minimum RAM was 512mb... I definitely know my computer didn't meet the minimum RAM requirement and it currently has 384mb.
I had 512 for the longest time, and the game ran fine.

Carne

2008-08-13, 04:02 PM

I just upgraded the PC my daughters use from 512Mb to 1Gb. They can now get greater than 0.3FPS (That's what they were getting, ugh) in Ironforge, and other players' characters graphics actually load in Shattrath now! Zomg.

I'm running with 3Gig, but I think I should probably install a second graphics card in order to take the load off the one I have since it's currently powering two monitors for total desktop space of something ridiculous like 2800x1024. Still, even with that setup it runs a respectable framerate.

Keep in mind, though, that graphics requirements will more than likely go up a little when Wrath drops. Apparently the game will be more graphically demanding (better textures, more lighting and particle effects) and the terrain itself may be less line-of-sight restrictive**

**Ever wonder why you can't fly in Azeroth? It's not solely due to the short cuts in mountain ranges and such. Once upon a time you could get a mod which would extend your maximum camera range past the 30 yard default Blizzard has in the client, out to 250+ yards. If you stand in a certain place in a city (let's pick Stormwind) and zoom waaaaaay out, you could see the immediately surrounding area, but the other districts were not rendered. This is one of the tricks Blizzard used to cut down on how much power was necessary to render a city full of people.

With TBC, Shattrath was introduced, and was much more open, but the processing requirements went up to compensate. You'll also notice that Outlands in general is a much more open place, with fewer mountain ranges and whatnot. This change is largely responsible for why people slow to a crawl in Shattrath.

In Wrath, as mentioned above, the textures used on gear, the ground, objects, mobs etc. it all taking a giant leap forward and at least doubling in detail from what I hear. Things will look a whole lot nicer, but make more demands on your hardware. Other things like light-sourced shadows, different glow effects, even motion blur, are apparently being added to Wrath. Those of you in Beta might have seen some of the changes already.

Carne

2008-08-13, 04:08 PM

Self reply BAD!

The reason why limited RAM is a bad thing is due to the way the game swaps data in and out of main memory. Changing zones or areas, loading up textures for gear (especially in crowded areas) or any other activity where data must be read and written to/from the hard drive will cause in-memory data to be pushed out to the page file, which increases time spent dealing with disk I/O, in turn slowing the game down overall.

More memory => more data in main RAM without having to swap => faster performance.

Anything more than 2Gig is probably overkill unless you're in the habit of running multiple other applications at the same time as WoW. Also, with some operating systems (Windows XP for example) there's a maximum limit to how much memory can actually be utilized by the operating system (I think it's 3Gig for XP).

WoW is pretty resource friendly compared with some of the other rival MMOs and titles on the market today. But the listed minimums on the box are really that - the absolute minimum you need to run the thing. Bigger is almost always better :smallsmile:

Destro_Yersul

2008-08-13, 07:14 PM

Not quite. My processor clocks in at 1.8gHz, which isn't quite high enough to meet the requirements. And it's a single core too, so none of that fancy force multiplication stuff applies. I shall be upgrading it soon though. I'd like to be able to actually play some of the new games coming out.

Leon

2008-08-13, 07:17 PM

I wouldn't recommend any less than a gig. That's what my comp has, and I've been thinking I should upgrade that for a while now.

Aye, when i started i had 512 and a world full of problems even with settings turned down - i got stuck on a Zeppelin and had to be removed via GM assistance.
Once i upgraded to a Gig the problems went away (for the most part but low settings fixed the remaining issues)

And having since played it on a PC with a couple of Gig the more the better for a nice detailed game play

Ryshan Ynrith

2008-08-14, 12:58 AM

Well, I did it. I ground out the honor and the XP, and I'm now 70. :smallcool:

Oh yeah, it's awesome. Gotta get some more rep to finish the honored PVP gear. Also need about 2500 more gold for the epic flyer, which I believe will be my first goal.

And the axes are so, so sweet...mmmm.

Ego Slayer

2008-08-14, 09:05 AM

They're nerfing your bubble. It will only give 50% damage reduction. No more running into Halaa when the Horde is taking it, attacking 10 people, and bubble-hearthing out while you laugh at them. :smallfrown:
What?! :smallfurious: I've never bubble-hearthed before, but isn't that going to screw up bubble-heals? Why not just fix it so it you can't hearth?

Tengu_temp

2008-08-14, 10:01 AM

They're nerfing your bubble. It will only give 50% damage reduction. No more running into Halaa when the Horde is taking it, attacking 10 people, and bubble-hearthing out while you laugh at them. :smallfrown:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/Coyoteesharptongue/lex-luthor-wrong1.jpg

Divine Shield works the same way it was before. You're thinking of Divine Protection, which instead of being a Divine Shield without the ability to attack is now -50% damage taken and +50% time between your attacks for 12 seconds. A paladin's Shield Wall. This change is a buff for the paladin.

TigerHunter

2008-08-14, 11:53 AM

Vonriel

2008-08-14, 02:32 PM

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/Coyoteesharptongue/lex-luthor-wrong1.jpg

Divine Shield works the same way it was before. You're thinking of Divine Protection, which instead of being a Divine Shield without the ability to attack is now -50% damage taken and +50% time between your attacks for 12 seconds. A paladin's Shield Wall. This change is a buff for the paladin.

I'm much appeased at seeing this, as I really was about to stop playing my paladin and just stick with my hunter. Though, the changes coming in wrath make me want a tankadin even more...

Re: Linker: I had a big brain fart, and somehow read distract as vanish. Don't ask why, I couldn't tell you. But basically, a 0cd vanish would mean only flares would stop rogues from owning me, hence the desire to switch to hunter. :smalltongue:

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot to ask. Has anyone heard whether or not Blizzard is gonna patch in the new talents before the expansion's release, similar to how they did it for the last one?

mangosta71

2008-08-14, 02:38 PM

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/Coyoteesharptongue/lex-luthor-wrong1.jpg

Divine Shield works the same way it was before. You're thinking of Divine Protection, which instead of being a Divine Shield without the ability to attack is now -50% damage taken and +50% time between your attacks for 12 seconds. A paladin's Shield Wall. This change is a buff for the paladin.

Ah, I had assumed that the change would be made to both spells. Yes, that's a pretty substantial buff for a tankadin.

The changes to tanking mechanics make me a little uneasy, though. I guess paladins will be stacking strength after stam and mitigation stats instead of spellpower, so there's not a big change for them. But warriors are having to add another stat to their tank suits. They're gonna freak out.

I do like that rogues will be outdpsing warriors again, though. Suck on that, furry punks. Well, until Kalgan comes in and nerfs everybody else so his class can be best at everything again.

Leon

2008-08-14, 06:14 PM

Not to happy with the change to Mana costs of spells that is coming for Wrath - Its Blizz deciding to stop people from Down ranking spells.

It wont be a massive blow to me but its still an annoying thing - i use rank One Frost Nova as it does the same affect as the max rank one minus the damage, and i don't need to care about the damage that a Nova does when its a 70% chance that the target is going to Shatter

Tho i don't Pvp anymore the change will hit hard in Pvp with the loss of Rank 1 AE or Blizzard to reveal stealthers

TheEmerged

2008-08-15, 10:19 AM

To be honest, Leon, this makes about the third time I can remember they've gone to nerf downranking in some way. I'm surprised they don't just eliminate it, but I'm chalking it up to one of those things somebody on the design team has an emotional investment in (see for reference: weapon skill).

In other news, don't know if I reported it here but my Kara attempt Tuesday had to be cancelled for something in real life that ended up being cancelled too. So *that* particular pre-WOA goal is going to have to be put off again.

On the other hand, the druid is now 61 and working on 62. Getting him to 70 is my next major goal, with getting the rogue to level 46 and LW 300 as a secondary goal. Getting the druid to 62 is an immediate-term goal, since he gets Maim (new skill) and can make use of being Honored with Cenarion Expedition at that point.

Oh, WOA as an acronym of the expansion? Heard it on another board. Think of is as "Wrath of Arthas", and pronounce it like you're Keenu Reeves. Rolls off the tongue easier...

Carne

2008-08-15, 03:24 PM

Oh, WOA as an acronym of the expansion? Heard it on another board. Think of is as "Wrath of Arthas", and pronounce it like you're Keenu Reeves. Rolls off the tongue easier...

About as easy to pronounce as "Wrath", makes less sense, and requires an extra paragraph to establish context to anyone not familiar with it. You may want to re-evaluate your usage given those criticisms.

The Linker

2008-08-15, 04:09 PM

The changes to tanking mechanics [citation needed] make me a little uneasy, though. I guess paladins will be stacking strength after stam and mitigation stats instead of spellpower, so there's not a big change [citation needed] for them. But warriors are having to add another stat [citation needed] to their tank suits. They're gonna freak out.

I do like that rogues will be outdpsing warriors again, [citation needed] though. Suck on that, furry punks. Well, until Kalgan comes in and nerfs everybody else so his class can be best at everything again.

I'm not saying I don't believe you. I just want to know what the heck you're talking about. :smalltongue:

TheEmerged

2008-08-15, 07:08 PM

About as easy to pronounce as "Wrath", makes less sense, and requires an extra paragraph to establish context to anyone not familiar with it. You may want to re-evaluate your usage given those criticisms.

I can has sense of humor?

mangosta71

2008-08-15, 11:33 PM

I'm not saying I don't believe you. I just want to know what the heck you're talking about. :smalltongue:

I have guildies in the beta. They talk about these things sometimes while we raid. For specific citations, I'd have to do a lot more research than I consider worthwhile, as so many things are still up in the air. However, they've mentioned that paladins and warriors will generate threat based upon attack power, so no more stacking nothing but stam and mitigation. They have also said that rogues are getting buffs to make them top dps again (which is reasonable, as we're the only class that brings nothing else to the raid).

Leon

2008-08-16, 08:27 AM

TheEmerged

2008-08-16, 12:31 PM

On it may well be, but I'm just seeing it as a nasty blow after showering us with nice Talent previews and such.

/voice=MaryPoppins
Just a spoonful of uber helps the nerfs to go down... the nerfs to go doooown...

:smallcool:

Carne

2008-08-16, 02:28 PM

I can has sense of humor?

If you say so! :smallsmile:

Vonriel

2008-08-16, 02:32 PM

I don't see why paladins will need ap to generate threat, as it looks like, with the current skills, they'll need to stack stam/block value/other avoidance instead* (in that order). I mean, I admit I could be missing something, but with skills like Shield of Righteousness (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=53600), the changes to Divine Protection (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=498), and talents like Shield of the Templar (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=53711) and Hammer of the Righteous (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=53595), and THEN note that you can't get both HotR and Sheath of Light, it seems to me that AP isn't needed for prot pallies.

On the hit to downranking spells, this is going to be a huge hit to raiders as well. From reading the paladin Elitist Jerks forums alone, it's pretty obvious that a lot of raiders rely on being able to cast downranked spells to get the full benefit of talents (Light's Grace, Illumination) and the mana reduction rather than simply casting the highest rank they had.

*Yes, I know that the new str->block value is going to be more forgiving (something like 2:1 I heard?) but still, I think items that add pure block value are going to be favored over items that add strength.