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View Full Version : Creating a new RP system [Part 3: The Story Overall]



drawingfreak
2008-07-28, 12:34 AM
The theme: Monkey Robot Ninjas Versus Viking Dinosaur Pirates

Well, it is obvious that seriousness is not what we are going after here. Though, playing it serious would make it that much more hilarious.

What this thread is about is basically the Spine of the Story. It's that bare minimum of story that helps push the GM's imagination. In D&D, it's knowing the meat happens on the Material Plane, there is an Astral Plane and an Elemental Chaos, and all drow are Chaotic Good rebels yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin. In the Star Wars Roleplaying Game it's...well, Star Wars.

So what is our backbone? Our overall story?
----------------

If you want to build off of someone else's idea, post "Like [LINK TO POST] but..." and then continue.

I'm going to give this till Wednesday at 11:59pm EST. Then we shall have another vote. BEGIN!

Dairun Cates
2008-07-28, 12:40 AM
I think Lyndworm came up with a pretty clever backstory. It really only lacks the robots and the monkeys (and Vikings if you don't consider them a specialty pirate). At the very least, if we can't come up with something better, it's a good starting point.


A massive ninja vs pirate war takes place on land and at sea. In this grim world survival is a very real concern for all but the wealthiest of individuals. All trade has slowed to a trickle as the trade routes are transformed into wartorn wastelands, roamed by highwaymen and the lost souls who once called this place home.

The enormous scaly beasts from the southern islands were domesticated decades ago, primarily used as beasts of burden and mounts on the battlefield. Since the war broke out, many animals have gone feral and now claim the countryside as their own.

As if fate is trying to rid the world of higher thought, a strange pox has been diiminishing the populations on both sides of the conflict. It seems to have no preference as to whom it strikes; old, young, weak, strong, all sexes of all races. To make matters worse, around 75% of those that die from the illness rise as undead within a few days. Some populations have managed to close themselves off to keep the roving hordes of undead from attacking.

mikeejimbo
2008-07-28, 01:05 AM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4606796&postcount=2

I'm totally for that. A few things I'd like to add.

- The disease should be spread mostly through bites
- Robots: Should they be immune? On the one hand it would be a benefit to being a robot, on the other, zombie robot is a funny concept.
- The reason there is so much piracy should be because they're taking the chance to strike during the general chaos
- Ninjas then rose to take on the pirates?
- Vikings are a kind of pirate

boomwolf
2008-07-28, 01:39 AM
I thought the pirates are robot zombies? when did they turn into viking dinosaurs?

(and how will that be balanced?)

Dairun Cates
2008-07-28, 01:41 AM
I thought the pirates are robot zombies? when did they turn into viking dinosaurs?

(and how will that be balanced?)

That was actually a huge truncation of the original concept because I didn't name it. It's more of the robots and ninjas are on the same side and the pirates and zombies are on the same side. At least, that's the original concept. Might go somewhere else with it.

drawingfreak
2008-07-28, 01:45 AM
I've been imagining a scenario so utterly bizarre that the Master's of the Universe may have competition.

The Forgotten Isle. It stands alone, thousands of miles from any other form of land. The center of the Isle contains Mt. Fujitsu, lair of the ninja. The waters are controlled by the Skull Armada, ruled by the Dread Pirate George. The land to the north is ruled by the legions of the Near-Dead. They're actually kind of nice when you get to know them, but their need to feed on the flesh of the living makes forming any kind of real relationship rather difficult. The land to the South is over run by herds of dinosaurs. The Manly Men of Manliness (not known for their originality...or good hygene) ride the beasts into battle. The land to the east is covered in thick jungle brush. The Monkey People of OOO, OOO, AAAH live in the trees. They like to throw poo. To the west is the Robopublic. The metallic armies of doom march methodically in circles until someone can come in and fix the bug in the software.

Races:
Human
Near-Dead
Manly Men of Maliness
Monkey
Robot
Cyborg (1/2 Robot, 1/2 Human)
Zomborg (1/2 Robot, 1/2 Zombie)
Ape-bot (1/2 Robot, 1/2 Monkey)
Franks (1/2 Robot, 1/2 MMoM)

Classes:
Pirate
Commoner
Ninja
Skeletal Crewman (Pirate Zombie)
Corpse (Neutral Zombie)
Re-Ninja(Ninja Zombie)
Viking (Pirate MMoM)
Dino Rider (Neutral MMoM)
Barbarian (Ninja MMoM)
Rope Swingers (Pirate Monkey)
Poo Slinger (Neutral Monkey)
Shadow Ape (Ninja Monkey)
Rust Bucket (Pirate Robot)
Clankers (Neutral Robot)
Hidden Cogs (Ninja Robot)

mikeejimbo
2008-07-28, 01:51 AM
I think we should steer away from classes at this time. I mean, we never even said we were going to use a class-based system, right?

That said I like the list if we do go for one.

drawingfreak
2008-07-28, 02:00 AM
I found it as a way to explain how we can have Zombie Pirates and the like.

Maybe we should refer to it as a job list?

Lyndworm
2008-07-28, 02:07 AM
Thanks for the support guys. I really appreciate that you think my work is good enough to base a campaign around. That being said, howabout I stop making with the humble and maybe get to work here?

Some thoughts...

The world is rediculous, but the inhabitants don't know that. To them, this is just life as usual. I think it would maximize the awesome if everything was designed seriously, with equal thought given to realism, humor, and playability.

I like the world layout from DF just fine, but I personally feel that the zombies should be mostly unintelligent and not have their own nation/territory/island. They should be more of a plague upon the world, something to be feared, fought, and kept as far away from civilization as possible. Something like a Land of the Dead feel, but with dinosaurs and absurdity.

I think we should definitely avoid classes for the time being. I would prefer to have a classless system, but whichever way we go with it should be decided later.

I'm cool wiith the suggested races. My thoughts differed somewhat. I was thinking at least three races, monkeys (working title) with dexterity and wisdom bonuses, humans with no bonuses (maybe constitution and charisma for balance), and robots (working title) with strength and intelligence bonuses.

Robots should be able to contract zombiepox (working title). There are two reasons for this. One, if robots were immune they would have a pretty big advantage. Two, zombified robots are made of win.

Zombiepox should be contracted through fluid transfer, which would include bites.

There are several nations/groups of both ninjas and pirates. I've not quite got everything worked out yet, but vikings would definitely be a form of pirate.

Any thoughts?

Zack

Dairun Cates
2008-07-28, 02:38 AM
I found it as a way to explain how we can have Zombie Pirates and the like.

Maybe we should refer to it as a job list?

Actually, this is for when we get to it, but I considered that we might actually consider a system based more around abilities than stats and consider the different races part of the prerequisites. Basically, you can pick two or just one. A zombie-pirate has most of the zombie and pirate abilities in his possible repertoire of abilities, but a pure pirate is the only one that can unlock the ultimate level of pirate skills. A bit abstract, but I also think this might be interesting as a d6 system so it's a bit more accessible to tabletop gamers. So, maybe I'm just crazy. I DID suggest pirate vs. ninjas afterall.

As for the fluff, I agree with the concept of the world being very serious to people in it while being absolutely ridiculous to us.

As for the concept of other ninja and pirate nations, maybe we could make cool names for what are essentially the cliches of ninja. Ie. Stealthily ninjas, Anime Ninjas, Wuxia Ninjas, Akira Kurasawa Ninjas (aka the one's that suck when there' 100 of them but are awesome when there's just 1), etc.

So, for naming, we could go something like...
Stealthy Ninjas = Shinobi
Anime = Shonenobi
Wuxia = Arcanobi
Akira = Lonenobi or Inversinobi

I guess on Pirates you could have something along the lines of Vikings, Fops, Drunkards, and Badasses.

Lyndworm
2008-07-28, 02:55 AM
Good thoughts. Pure gold, actually.

Zack

Dairun Cates
2008-07-28, 03:35 AM
Ah. The clever naming for the Pirate nations came to me.

Badass = Pirate King
Viking = Viking
Fop = Dashing King or just Dashking for short.
Drunkard = Drinking

MrEdwardNigma
2008-07-28, 05:53 AM
I agree the world should be entirely serious, despite the ridiculous concept. Also, concerning the classes, I think simply Pirate and Ninja will do as classes (perhaps with Dinosaur Rider or Manly Men of Manliness as another class, as their race is actually human). The classes and races could combine into any of the other things, such as "Rust Bucket".

Zombifying robots seems interesting, but I'm wondering how it'll manifest. I mean, humans have rotting flesh, lowered intelligence and shambling, but what do robots have? Constant loud errors? Erratic behaviour? Killing sprees? Spontaneous explosions? All of the above?

Zeta Kai
2008-07-28, 05:57 AM
I found it as a way to explain how we can have Zombie Pirates and the like.

Zombie Pirates = Cervantes de Leon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervantes_%28Soul_Calibur%29)

Viruzzo
2008-07-28, 06:51 AM
We need to make a clear stand on the class/race definition right away, so that we define what we need to think about. I see two possible visions:
(a) class and races are separate, so we have a separate definition of what phisically someone is and what he can do (AD&D like)
(b) "races" are "classes", so there is only one list to choose from, and combinations of 2 (or more?) are possible

I like best option (b), and we could formulate the base "races/classes" as:
- ninjas
- pirates
- zombies
- robots
- dinosaurs (they have to playable!)
- monkeys

I think that races and classes should be unified because it gives you more feeling of what a character is. It does not matter the genetic descendance of a ninja, the important part is that he is a ninja!
For every race there would be hybrids (there are quite many that can be created with two races from a list of six) and some variants like those suggested above (like Vikings for Pirates).
We can also say they all the robots are a bit cyborgish, and as such can be zombified. It would manifest as decaying of the living parts they have, and maybe also some rusting or deformation of the robotic parts. Depending on what form the robot has (we can rule that they are more or less antropomorphic) they would try to bite or inject or something else to spread the disease.
I think that we need a better name for the zombie disease though, something more comical?


Zombiepox should be contracted through fluid transfer, which would include bites.
Very discomforting thought have crossed my mind...


Zombie Pirates = Cervantes de Leon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervantes_%28Soul_Calibur%29)
3 more days... Yoda!!!

MrEdwardNigma
2008-07-28, 06:59 AM
I like Viruzzo's option A best, actually. I don't think being a pirate is the same kind of thing as being a robot at all. One's clearly a class (something they received training in) while the other is a race (something you simply are). This would allow characters to multiclass (but perhaps not as a pirate-ninja, as they are mortal enemies). Hybrid races should also be allowed, such as zombie robots, which could indeed essentially be some sort of zombified cyborgs.

Viruzzo
2008-07-28, 07:17 AM
I like Viruzzo's option A best, actually. I don't think being a pirate is the same kind of thing as being a robot at all.
It's a bit of a "D&D vs AD&D" problem, but both options are viable.

For case (a), I suggest races:
- human (could be divided into an oriental themed subtype and a Viking-themed subtype?)
- monkey
- robot
- dinosaur (you're not taking them away from me!) :smallbiggrin:
+ hybrids
+ a zombie "template" that can be applied to all of them

and classes:
- pirate
- ninja
+ race "paragon classes"

Here we have a problem: all the classes proposed until now are a subtype of these. The reason is that only two (pirates and ninjas) of the key concepts are "classes" in the classical (pun intended) sense. This way we would boil down to having X types of pirates, X types of ninjas and X types of race Y, which is kinda poor in my opinion, hence my (b) option that creates a single layer of "raclasses", ripe of variety. It is harder to design though, because if we allow all possible combinations of two of the six raclasses I proposed, we already have 36.

KingGolem
2008-07-28, 08:45 AM
Personally, I like Dairun Cates' idea for classes the most:


Actually, this is for when we get to it, but I considered that we might actually consider a system based more around abilities than stats and consider the different races part of the prerequisites. Basically, you can pick two or just one. A zombie-pirate has most of the zombie and pirate abilities in his possible repertoire of abilities, but a pure pirate is the only one that can unlock the ultimate level of pirate skills.

We could use that for the class system and we could use Viruzzo's idea for races and the types of classes, particularly with the Racial Paragon classes. Another of Dairun Cates' ideas was the different varieties of classes, like the four types of pirates and ninjas.

Finally, I have my own idea of how the zombie disease should infect robots. Perhaps the disease grows colonies in the oil and coolant delivery systems of the robots, causing their movements to become even more ungainly from the wear and tear on their un-lubricated mechanical parts, and the infection in their coolant system causes their circuitry to overheat, thus impairing their processing power and causing them to behave erratically. The disease infecting the oil system causes the system to rupture in several places, and infected robot oil oozes out over their metal casing, so they spread the disease through their natural attacks, or through grappling or something.

drawingfreak
2008-07-28, 12:50 PM
How about this...

You have these options with any combination of two:
Ninja
Pirate
Robot
Dinosaur
Monkey
Zombie

Each option has its own unique talents and modifiers and what not. Choosing the same option twice gives you even more unique talents and modifiers. For example, if you are a Monkey Ninja, you gain abilities common to both. BUT, if you choose Ninja twice, you get all the Ninja abilities PLUS the ability to disappear in a puff of smoke. Just an example.

However, there should be some forbidden combinations such as Ninja Pirate and Dinosaur Monkey. Unless we can find a way to make it work and anyone playing as that combination has no place in the world.

drawingfreak
2008-07-28, 12:55 PM
Robot Dinosaur? (http://www.transformersanimated.com/news/6326/img/news/200803/grimlock-001.jpg)

MrEdwardNigma
2008-07-28, 12:56 PM
How about this...

You have these options with any combination of two:
Ninja
Pirate
Robot
Dinosaur
Monkey
Zombie

Each option has its own unique talents and modifiers and what not. Choosing the same option twice gives you even more unique talents and modifiers. For example, if you are a Monkey Ninja, you gain abilities common to both. BUT, if you choose Ninja twice, you get all the Ninja abilities PLUS the ability to disappear in a puff of smoke. Just an example.

However, there should be some forbidden combinations such as Ninja Pirate and Dinosaur Monkey. Unless we can find a way to make it work and anyone playing as that combination has no place in the world.

Someone already suggested that. Perhaps you.

Anyways, this actually comes down to pretty much what I said (with the forbidden combinations thing added) only my system is somewhat neater and allows for Pirate Zombie Robots.

Or, you know, Pirate Zombie Monkeys (http://potc.arwen-undomiel.com/images/other/Monkey_sc.jpg).

drawingfreak
2008-07-28, 01:26 PM
Someone already suggested that. Perhaps you.

Anyways, this actually comes down to pretty much what I said (with the forbidden combinations thing added) only my system is somewhat neater and allows for Pirate Zombie Robots.

Or, you know, Pirate Zombie Monkeys (http://potc.arwen-undomiel.com/images/other/Monkey_sc.jpg).

No, my earlier suggestion was race and class based, ala D&D...kinda.

My more recent contribution was more akin to my already existing home-made RPG. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59463)

If Ninjas get +1 to Stealth and Monkeys get +1 to Climb, then a Ninja Monkey would get both. However, a Double Ninja would get +2 to Stealth and then something unique to Double Ninjas.

Also, for more flavor...we could have factions based on what option is your primary and which is your secondary. A Ninja Monkey could be a human born within the Ninja Clans but taught himself the way of the Monkey. A Monkey Ninja would be a Monkey trained in the art of Ninjitsu.

Lyndworm
2008-07-28, 07:48 PM
Very discomforting thought have crossed my mind...

I assure you, that was not an accident.



Personally, I like Dairun Cates' idea for classes the most.

I have my own idea of how the zombie disease should infect robots.

I absolutely agree on both suggestions. I support both Dairun's system and your zombie-robot theory. Gold I tell you, gold!

Zack

Dairun Cates
2008-07-28, 08:06 PM
Obviously, I'm all for races and classes being one thing, but I can see it being required to pick pirate or ninja as part of the system as your base "class". I do think that you can come up with an entire set of abilities for just being a monkey though. Maybe you're a human with monkey abilities or just a monkey, but you're definitely in the monkey class.

I do think the idea of Robot Monkey Ninjas is pretty fun though.

We could extend your options from 2 to 3 (ie. Robot Monkey Ninja, Robot Robot Ninja, or Ninja Ninja Ninja), but the question arises of whether we consider 216 different possible combinations to be a good thing. With a skill system, it's not hard to just create 3 tiers of skills for each race and let the combinations arise, but balancing might be a bit harder.

Then again, I'm going to guess balancing isn't our primary concern here.

By the way, on the issue of Zombie Robots. Apparently Alastair Reynolds had something similar called the melding plague. It's more like a merging cancer, but it is VERY close to robot zombies.

KingGolem
2008-07-28, 09:32 PM
I absolutely agree on both suggestions. I support both Dairun's system and your zombie-robot theory. Gold I tell you, gold!

Heh, thanks. :smallsmile: I don't know about anybody else here, but when I think of "robot," as a sort of race, I think of the (sometimes vaguely) humanoid robots that you might see in a black and white B-rated sci-fi movie from the '20s or '30s. I happen to find the concept of such robots becoming zombies to be hilarious, particularly the ensuing mental comparison between a normal human zombie and a robot zombie:

Human Zombie: We've all seen them. Another shambling, corpse-like human with their arms outstretched moaning "...braaaaaiiiiinnnssss...BRAAAAIIIINSSS...!"

Robot Zombie: The aforementioned '20s-'30s era B-movie with outstretched arms tipped with snapping metal claws, a head with a single rectangular glowing red eye with the head spinning around and shooting sparks, in the state of disrepair described in my theory of zombie-robots, and lurching forward shouting in a slightly metallic tenor male voice: "BRAINS! BRAINS! BRAINS! BRAINS! BRAINS!" Of course, the robot wouldn't need brains, but it would still be freakin' awesome. :smallbiggrin:


Ok, and now that my nerdy ramble on why I find robot zombies hilarious is over, I feel I must more accurately illustrate my stand on races/classes, due to the recent discussion on races and classes. Indeed, I feel that races and classes should be separate, and we should have racial paragon classes that require one to be a member of their chosen race. The ideal race and class lists would look something like this:

Races:
Humans
Monkeys
Dinosaurs
Zombies (template)
Robots (maybe we could make this a template, you know, for monkey robot ninjas and such)

A few things concern me. First of all, the race list seems a bit lacking, I think we could do with another race. I'm open to ideas, but the first race that comes to mind are werewolves. Sort of like a race of humans who have in-bred natural lycanthropy for so many generation that now they are a race separate from standard humans. Second of all, "dinosaurs" is a vague term, for there are many types of dinosaurs. My idea for making the dinosaur race would be something like having them come from a land full of different types of dinosaurs, but there is one particular type which has evolved sapience. I think they ought to look like T-rexes (the quintessential dinosaur), but only about 7' tall and with longer, less-useless arms.

Classes:
Pirates
Vikings
Ninjas
Monkey Paragon (monkeys only)
Dinosaur Paragon (dino's only)
Zombie Paragon (zombies only)
Robot Paragon (robots only)

This class list also concerns me. Once again, I feel that the list is lacking somewhat, and could use another non-paragon class. Perhaps some sort of bad-ass type who uses guns, motorcycles, and explosives, like the kind who star in movies with rediculous amounts of action, like The Transporter (admittedly, I've never seen that movie, but from the comercials it struck me as a movie that focused almost entirely on exploding cars :smalltongue: ). Ooh, then you could play a robot bad-ass guy and be like the Terminator. :smallbiggrin: On another issue, it has been discussed...by someone here that vikings should be just a variant of pirates, but I don't think so. Though they are indeed similar in their mode of operation, I think of pirates and vikings more like rogues and barbarians, respectively.



Aaaand...while typing this extremely long post, another thought occurs to me. Perhaps we have an even looser class/ability system. Perhaps, instead of trying to come up with all these class features, we make a big list of special abilities and powers balanced against each other that have their own pre-requisites. I think it should follow a template like this:

[Power Name]
Race: Maybe specific to races? I mean, maybe you don't have to take the Robot Paragon class to get some kind of robot-specific ability.
Class: Maybe just one class (like Pirate and then anything else), specific combinations (Like Viking/Robot Paragon), or for pures (like Ninja/Ninjas).
Description: What the power does, obviously.

Maybe we could work out some kind of point-based system to determine how many such powers you could accumulate. And I'll try to work out a nice table to determine EXACTLY how many class/race combinations powers could exist for.

Dairun Cates
2008-07-28, 10:18 PM
Personally, I'm fine with filling in the classes and races a bit more. Although, I think I still like the idea of being able to do class combinations. It adds for a little more depth and flexibility with not much more work. So, I still support the 2 class idea with the possibility of doubling up on a class.

I'm literally tossing random ideas here, but...
Races:
-Some kind of Dark Shadowy Race that's writes bad poetry and claims badness is in their blood despite the fact that every other member of their race dual-wields scimitars and rebels

-As a foil, a race of people so heroic, it's sickening

-Vampires (if we have werewolves, of course)

-Catgirls

-Ghosts

-Carebears (roomate's suggestion)

Classes:
-Magic Casters

-Bandits

-Action Heroes

Obviously, taking too many dilutes the theme, but it's a good way to get ideas flowing.

For the record, I think of the cheesy sci-fi robots as well. There's just no other way to go. Real robots don't fit the theme as well as the blocky funny ones.

On abilities, I think point-buy is the way to go. You can either buy better hp or more skills. It's simple, it's flexible, and it's fun.

Also, that's pretty much what I was thinking on abilities as well. Pretty much down to the exact same template.

By the way, just a side note, but since we're being cinematic, I was considering instead of "you get to use this skill so many times a day" we might have skills cost temporary hp to use (HP that's lost but regenerates faster) or something similar. Basically, the idea is that you exhaust yourself using your big skills constantly, but you won't die if from getting knocked out. You're just too exhausted to fight anymore. They actually implemented this for the Slayers d20 spell-casting system and I always found it to be a great way to handle the issue. It allows for more flexible usage for skills while still limiting usage of higher level ones without using a superficial mp system.

Although, that's more mechanics and we should probably continue to focus on theme and races and such.

mikeejimbo
2008-07-28, 10:30 PM
Personally, I'm fine with filling in the classes and races a bit more. Although, I think I still like the idea of being able to do class combinations. It adds for a little more depth and flexibility with not much more work. So, I still support the 2 class idea with the possibility of doubling up on a class.

I'm literally tossing random ideas here, but...
Races:
-Some kind of Dark Shadowy Race that's writes bad poetry and claims badness is in their blood despite the fact that every other member of their race dual-wields scimitars and rebels

-As a foil, a race of people so heroic, it's sickening


This reminds me of the campaign setting I was creating. The Humans were the people who were sickeningly heroic and the tieflings were the Dark Shadowy Emo race. (Drow were evil Elves who underwent an ascension ritual.)

Actually, while they might not be extremely applicable here, my race descriptions were quite humorous.

Dairun Cates
2008-07-29, 12:07 AM
This reminds me of the campaign setting I was creating. The Humans were the people who were sickeningly heroic and the tieflings were the Dark Shadowy Emo race. (Drow were evil Elves who underwent an ascension ritual.)

Actually, while they might not be extremely applicable here, my race descriptions were quite humorous.

I think the big thing is that we get cultural icons that represent a HUGE spread of culture. I think the Dark Shadowy Emo Race might actually fit in for that perspective. It also seems to me like Race is definitely a personality choice.

Dinosaurs = Savages and untamed
Humans = Balanced
Robots = Cold and Logical
Zombies = Persistent and somewhat Mindless
Monkeys = Silly and Care-free

So, we might want to identify the personalities missing and find things to fit in there.

drawingfreak
2008-07-29, 12:50 AM
Our Alignments? (found it randomly on Google)
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/1741/monkeyninjapiraterobotzmj8.png

mikeejimbo
2008-07-29, 12:53 AM
I think the big thing is that we get cultural icons that represent a HUGE spread of culture. I think the Dark Shadowy Emo Race might actually fit in for that perspective. It also seems to me like Race is definitely a personality choice.

Dinosaurs = Savages and untamed
Humans = Balanced
Robots = Cold and Logical
Zombies = Persistent and somewhat Mindless
Monkeys = Silly and Care-free

So, we might want to identify the personalities missing and find things to fit in there.

Hmm, that's a good point. By this logic, I would be a Monkey Pirate. (Or a Pirate Monkey?) Vikings are another class of pirate? Maybe I'd be a Monkey Viking.

Also, I love how that image is a pentagram.

drawingfreak
2008-07-29, 01:23 AM
Maybe we work the clan path for the Pirates and Ninjas according to their location.

Pirates that sail the northern seas would most likely be Vikings then.

MrEdwardNigma
2008-07-29, 03:31 AM
Maybe we work the clan path for the Pirates and Ninjas according to their location.

Pirates that sail the northern seas would most likely be Vikings then.

I second this.

I would also like to point out that the pentagram has no dinosaurs on it.

And I would suggest making zombies a non-playable race. I mean, they can't think. For it to be a player race we'd have to make them intelligent, and I think that would just ruin the whole thing. If we don't, all the player will get to do really is shamble along with the rest of his zombie mates and try to eat brains. I mean, no equipment (have you ever seen a zombie go shopping for weapons? I think not), no battle tactics beyond loudly grunting and flailing with your arms, no diplomacy, hardly any roleplaying.

If we play zombies the traditional way, they don't really have any appeal as a player class. So I suggest making them a monster.

Lyndworm
2008-07-29, 03:59 AM
For the record, I love B sci/fi movies. I own over a dozen from the past eighty years or so.

I propose that both dinosaurs and monkeys be smaller than the other races. If we decide to use some sort of size modifiers than they could be a step below humans, but if not then they're simply shorter in the flavor-text.

Rather than being T. rex-ish, I think a more Troodontoid history would be benificial for the dinosaurs.

I'm totally for robot being a template rather than a race. If we decide to implement this, we may decide to make them immune to zombiepox that way you can't have both templates. Still, I'd miss a rusty Tobor looking guy shouting "Brains, Will Robinson!"

As for other races, I find the Drizzt's both hilarious and doable. It seems like it would fit in well with the fluff. Other possible names include D'har K'helfs and Elmos.

I also like the heroic foil, but nothing comes to mind for that one.

Vampires could be doable, but which of the "myths" would we use for constructing them. That could be tricky.

Catgirls? Are you crazy? In this world they'd all be dead by sundown.

Ghosts seem rather difficult as well. Also, it seems like more of a template than a race, though the same may be said of werewolves and vampires...

Carebears... Wow. Just... Wow. I'll say no, but it could be neat to have them in something else.

I'm cool with that selection of classes. It seems like it needs expanding, but it's an excellant reference point.

I love point-buy systems. Perhaps something like experience-as-currency? Not automatically leveling up so much as "purchasing" skills/attributes/HP/class abilities.

I also love the "HP as stamina/mana points" thing. I'd love to try it out sometime even if it doesn't get used.

The Alignmagram is both interesting and humerous, but I don't see how it would really help anything. As a bit of trivia, I bet you it's based on a diagram of the chinese elements. Do an image search and you'll se what I mean.

My original idea was to have zombies as enemies, barely capable of any thought. However, if the idea of playing as a character who can complain about literally falling to peices appeals to you, then bring it on.

Zack

Dairun Cates
2008-07-29, 04:08 AM
So, are we at the point where we essentially want to say no Zombie player characters but then later release it as a follow-up supplement? :smallbiggrin:

Lyndworm
2008-07-29, 04:44 AM
I believe so, yes. :smallamused:

Zack

llamamushroom
2008-07-29, 04:52 AM
I thought I'd put in my two cents - you should probably stray away from rigid 'classes', and instead have abilities that can be bought for exp, with some automatic for your race, i.e. the Ninja race (a sub-set of humans) automatically gets the Knife'd ability, and gives them access to Lilypad Step, Walls Are No Barrier and Improvised Shuriken (Playing Cards), which could all be bought for exp.

I would suggest against a 'level' system - instead, the Canon Bombardment power costs much exp, so you can either save up and get it early (and possibly suck early on), or spend reasonably smoothly.

Also, I like the abilities costing HP.

KingGolem
2008-07-29, 09:48 AM
Ok, I just made a table in Microsoft Word, and I've determined that assuming we add one more class and one more race (and therefore its racial paragon class) we will end up with 32 possible class combinations. 41 if we decide to keep zombies.

And with races, also assuming we add another race we have 8, and we have 12 if we keep zombies. I know that zombies are usually not deemed sapient, but perhaps the playable zombies could be those who managed to retain their sapience after contracting the zombie disease.

As for races, I'm kinda moving away from adding another new race. I think we should definitely keep the zombies though. I also think we should still add another new class. As for the class, I vote for my suggestion of a bad-ass machine gun wielding kinda guy. I'm not sure about the name of this class though. I'm open to name suggestions from anybody who watches more action movies than I do.

I think that buying abilities using xp would be a good idea. All aspects of player customization beyond race/class could work this way. We could use xp to purchase more hit points, increase some sort of ability scores, and most importantly, to buy powers. And yes, using hp to fuel powers is an excellent idea, so long as we add in a system for determining how fast hp recovers.

Dairun Cates
2008-07-29, 12:41 PM
I thought I'd put in my two cents - you should probably stray away from rigid 'classes', and instead have abilities that can be bought for exp, with some automatic for your race, i.e. the Ninja race (a sub-set of humans) automatically gets the Knife'd ability, and gives them access to Lilypad Step, Walls Are No Barrier and Improvised Shuriken (Playing Cards), which could all be bought for exp.

I would suggest against a 'level' system - instead, the Canon Bombardment power costs much exp, so you can either save up and get it early (and possibly suck early on), or spend reasonably smoothly.

Okay. I have to ask. I think we're all in agreement here. Is anyone actually against the idea of a player taking 1 or 2 classes and then having access to skills based on his class that are bought whenever he or she wants through point buy?

Also, glad you guys like the HP = energy idea.

Lyndworm
2008-07-29, 04:02 PM
Actually, I think that sounds like a really good idea.

By the way, I count 20 playable races. You've got the races human, monkey, dinosaur, drizzt, and goodnik, plus the templates werewolf, vampire, and robot.

However, that's just a preliminary figure. The races drizzt and goodnik and the templates werewolf and vampire are questionable, and the robot template might become a race.

Zack

mikeejimbo
2008-07-29, 04:06 PM
I support Robot as a template. Robo-dinosaur, Robo-monkey, all too funny to pass up.

I think zombie, werewolf and vampire should be too.

Maybe the templates should be mutually exclusive, except for robot and werewolf, thereby making a were-car?

Dairun Cates
2008-07-29, 04:58 PM
If you don't mind me asking, but what do we actually have to vote on at this point? I think we found one idea we mostly liked and built on it. No one's actually offered an alternate yet.

Lyndworm
2008-07-29, 06:13 PM
Pretty much nothing, I suppose. This part of the process is more of a discussion than a vote. We need to decide on races and the "common" templates, then classes, then fluff out the world. At some point we should probably design some sort of enemies as well.

Zack

KingGolem
2008-07-29, 07:47 PM
Ok, I'm thinking about these new races. I think we could do with adding in werewolves and vampires, but lets still leave out ghosts. I mean, that makes for three undead template races.

Originally, I considered humans with the robot template to be the "standard" robots, thus allowing for zombie robots. However, I don't like the idea of having robots of any other race gain templates, simply as a matter of taste. I like the were-car idea, but it seems kind of lame when it is applied to any other robotic race. I think that zombie, were-car, and vampire robots should be confined to humanoid robots, simply as a matter of taste.

I don't like the concept of the drizzt clones, but I think that an emo race is doable. Emos, by nature, are Chaotic Neutral in alignment, due to their obsession with rebellion and non-conformity, and then they rebel and non-conform to the ideals of rebellion and non-conformity by conforming to others designated as emos in dress and manerisms. I find the concept of emos as a race themselves considerably more appealing than just a race of drizzt clones. I would also eliminate the heroic foil race, simply because they have such little definition.

drawingfreak
2008-07-29, 10:50 PM
The way I was picturing Zombies was kind of like what they are in the Goon comics. They are semi-intelligent with personalities and the like, but they are stuck following the orders of their master as if it was their own will.

Say your cookie making Grandma died. You see her again as a zombie. "Why I would love to make cookies for you, deary, but you see, I have to eat your brains now. I'm sure you understand."

Dairun Cates
2008-07-29, 10:52 PM
The way I was picturing Zombies was kind of like what they are in the Goon comics. They are semi-intelligent with personalities and the like, but they are stuck following the orders of their master as if it was their own will.

Say your cookie making Grandma died. You see her again as a zombie. "Why I would love to make cookies for you, deary, but you see, I have to eat your brains now. I'm sure you understand."

So... All these people listen to their Re-animator? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BnOUOkcr9c)

MrEdwardNigma
2008-07-30, 01:17 AM
The way I was picturing Zombies was kind of like what they are in the Goon comics. They are semi-intelligent with personalities and the like, but they are stuck following the orders of their master as if it was their own will.

Wait, so there's someone out there actually intentionally creating
zombies? It's not like the fluff earlier on where the zombies are a kind of plague, but we'll have necromancers??

I think I like the plague better.

KingGolem
2008-07-30, 06:51 AM
Yes, I like the plague concept myself. I think someone mentioned some fluff about the races, and that all the zombies were living up in some freezing cold mountains where they couldn't kill/infect anybody. I like that idea; those mountains could have been designated as a quarantine zone for the zombies.

Now, does anyone object to what I suggested in my last post, concerning the emo race and a few template races?

Viruzzo
2008-07-30, 07:00 AM
I think that an emo race would be ok, maybe make them emo vampires? As for the other vampires, werewolf and such, it would make too much an horror clichè while the rest of the setting is based on stuff from really different sources.

And we need to decide definitively the number of layers we want, and then we can define what they contain. We could call a vote on that, for example:
(a) single layer: races, "templates" and classes on the same level, use combinations for variety (some may be forbidden, like "ninja-pirate")
(b) two layers: classes and races, what are now considere "templates" are merged into one or the other
(c) three layers: races, "templates" (currently zombie and robot) and classes similarly to D&D

I myself would prefer (a): I like homogenous systems.

DracoDei
2008-07-30, 10:20 AM
I beleive a common member of some such match-ups (Zombies vs Dinosaurs) etc is the Cowboy... besides Gorditto (Dr. McNinja's sidekick) and his dinosaur riding bandito relatives/friends are just too cool to leave out as a possibility in this sort of thing...

MrEdwardNigma
2008-07-30, 11:22 AM
I beleive a common member of some such match-ups (Zombies vs Dinosaurs) etc is the Cowboy... besides Gorditto (Dr. McNinja's sidekick) and his dinosaur riding bandito relatives/friends are just too cool to leave out as a possibility in this sort of thing...
Absolutely! I can't believe no-one thought of that before. It makes much more sense than any of the other additions. I vote for this.

Also, I vote for (c), because without it stuff like Pirate Zombie Monkeys would be impossible, and they even make sense!

KingGolem
2008-07-30, 11:52 AM
Yeah, I vote for option (c) too. I don't want to game in a world without Pirate Zombie Monkeys.

Dairun Cates
2008-07-30, 01:18 PM
I beleive a common member of some such match-ups (Zombies vs Dinosaurs) etc is the Cowboy... besides Gorditto (Dr. McNinja's sidekick) and his dinosaur riding bandito relatives/friends are just too cool to leave out as a possibility in this sort of thing...

Holy crap! Brilliant! Yeah. I'm definitely for adding the Cowboy. It's culturally defining, and it just makes so much sense.

As for the system. I think I'm fine with (c) provided we do still find a way to also let someone do a split class. Still, I think a Cowboy Pirate Zombie Monkey is the farthest we should EVER go.

Viruzzo
2008-07-30, 01:48 PM
Actually, (a) provides any combination up to a fixed limit.

There is also (d): making a "freeform" system, as someone suggested, a "skill point buy" would be the easiest.

Dairun Cates
2008-07-30, 01:56 PM
Actually, (a) provides any combination up to a fixed limit.

There is also (d): making a "freeform" system, as someone suggested, a "skill point buy" would be the easiest.

Yeah. I've considered (d), but honestly, I think you should have to make a choice on what skill-set you want. It keeps players from picking up the same abilities if they find one that works in scenarios they're commonly in.

KingGolem
2008-07-30, 05:53 PM
Yeah. I've considered (d), but honestly, I think you should have to make a choice on what skill-set you want. It keeps players from picking up the same abilities if they find one that works in scenarios they're commonly in.

Yeah, I think we should use an experience point purchasing system, where you can use your experience points to buy more hit points, ability scores (assuming we use those, once we start fleshing out all those mechanical details), and class abilities. I suggested how that might work a few posts ago:


Aaaand...while typing this extremely long post, another thought occurs to me. Perhaps we have an even looser class/ability system. Perhaps, instead of trying to come up with all these class features, we make a big list of special abilities and powers balanced against each other that have their own pre-requisites. I think it should follow a template like this:

[Power Name]
Race: Maybe specific to races? I mean, maybe you don't have to take the Robot Paragon class to get some kind of robot-specific ability.
Class: Maybe just one class (like Pirate and then anything else), specific combinations (Like Viking/Robot Paragon), or for pures (like Ninja/Ninjas).
Description: What the power does, obviously.

Maybe we could work out some kind of point-based system to determine how many such powers you could accumulate. And I'll try to work out a nice table to determine EXACTLY how many class/race combinations powers could exist for.

As for that power template, I suggest we have it so to get some powers you need to have already purchased other powers. Like, if one of your classes is the robot paragon, and you purchase some kind of missile launcher power, then that power would be a prerequisite to get heat seeking missiles.

Dairun Cates
2008-07-30, 05:58 PM
As for that power template, I suggest we have it so to get some powers you need to have already purchased other powers. Like, if one of your classes is the robot paragon, and you purchase some kind of missile launcher power, then that power would be a prerequisite to get heat seeking missiles.

No arguments there.

mikeejimbo
2008-07-30, 11:12 PM
woo cowboys.

drawingfreak
2008-07-30, 11:18 PM
Well, that ends this round. I'm going to take some time to jot down what notes I can make sense of in this thread and start a poll to make these things official.

Should be up before I hit the sack tonight/morning. If not, expect it tomorrow afternoon EST.

Lyndworm
2008-07-30, 11:21 PM
Viruzzo's right in that having vampires, werewolves, and zombies as common occurences could change the feel of the world. I also like the idea of emo vampires, but that doesn't quit fit the ideal of the emo Drizzt clones.

I love the idea of cowboys. It flows so perfectly I feel mentaly impaired not to have thought of it earlier.

So we're all liking the idea of a combination vote C&D? Point-buy stats and skills, experience-buy abilities? (The abilities that you have access to would be based mainly on your class, with prerequistes such as races, stats, skills, and other abilities.)

This is all sounding better and better...

OK... There are (at least) three nations: Cowboys, Ninjas, and Pirates. In addition, there's an abandoned landmass filled with zombies. Though quarrantined, zombiepox often breaks out for seemingly no reason in the inhabited areas. Some of these areas are in and of themselves quarantined due to high walls and traps to keep those infected outside.

The races are human, monkey, robot, and at least one other.

I'm really liking what we've got going on here, but I'm out of ideas for the night. What've you got?

Zack



EDIT:
Ninja'd! How appropriate!

Viruzzo
2008-07-31, 07:00 AM
I also like the idea of emo vampires, but that doesn't quit fit the ideal of the emo Drizzt clones.
Uhm. They're Drows. Turned Vampires. Emo style. They write depressing poetry about how hard it is to live in dark, underground cities where no one undestrands them, and their desire to be good and worship kittens instead of spiders...
I could be a great concept, even if I feel the Dark Side is strong in it.

Lyndworm
2008-07-31, 01:05 PM
I understood that much, and think it's hilarious. I had a problem elsewhere, but upon further examination I realize that I was mistaken. You're right; that would fit in well and be very funny.

Zack