So I'm rolling up a Favored Soul.

[Arros Winhadren]

My main priority is to be a healer. Melee is cool and all, but healing comes first. So that brings up the question, is the variant found in PHBII worth it? It seems like it just gives a few temp hit points for a few minutes - that doesn't sound like much. Secondly, if I go with the normal FS, then what weapons work well with it? I'm considering choosing Pun-Pun for my deity and then just choosing a weapon that I want Pun-Pun to favor. I'm pretty sure my DM will roll with this since we make Pun-Pun jokes all the time.

Is Vow of Peace/Nonviolence a good way to go if I decide not to take a favored weapon? What about taking Duskblade for Arcane Channeling, so I don't have to get close to people to heal them? Any suggestions are desired, but I'm adamant about not going Cleric.

Edit: I forgot to mention, I rolled a 17,16,16,14,14,13. I always roll nice for stats, but not so well in combat.

[arguskos]

Ok, so you want to be a heal-bot, and you're wondering if the PHB2 alt. class feature (which just adds MORE HP to heal spells) is worth it... uh... yeah, I'm gonna have to say yes. Yes it is worth it, if you are the heal-bot. Or a buffer. Or anything that aids your allies. :smallcool:

-argus

[Chronicled]

Since you get proficiency in your deity's weapon for free, it's a good idea to pick something exotic. The Goliath Greathammer, for instance.

[EndlessWrath]

Choosing vow of non-violence with a favored soul who gains better bonus's to fighting with Deity's favored weapon... might not be the best choice. If you want to take vow of Non-violence and be a primary healer. i again stress the "healer" class.
d8 hit die. constant restore abilities and a defense based divine spell list. You also get a celestial animal companion/mount. it starts as a unicorn but you can have alternate ones as well.

If you want to be a healer...this gives you a huge bonus to healing... as well as additional abilities no open to you from other classes. I suggest this. if you want more info just PM me and ask. I'll give you the stat block then

Edit: I forgot to mention the spell list for healers. all of them are defensive.. no inflict wounds spells or anything ... mostly buffs and such. If your looking for a support/defense buff character... that might be a way to go

[Arros Winhadren]

I realize my question about the variant sounds dumb, but it only gives 3*spell level temp hit points. That's not the same as healing because it's only good during or right before combat, so you might feel pressured to use a spell when there's no need to use it. And the hit points go away in a few minutes anyways. I might be able to better aid my allies if I beat enemies to death instead.

[Chronicled]

By the way, healing doesn't come first. A simple wand of Lesser Vigor can take care of all your healing needs outside of combat. Buffing your allies and/or hindering/incapacitating your enemies comes first, as it will prevent injury and death in your party.


I realize my question about the variant sounds dumb, but it only gives 3*spell level temp hit points. That's not the same as healing because it's only good during or right before combat, so you might feel pressured to use a spell when there's no need to use it. And the hit points go away in a few minutes anyways. I might be able to better aid my allies if I beat enemies to death instead.

It depends on the composition of the party and what you want to do. If you're in a melee heavy party and don't want to get in the fray, then giving temporary hit points with that Bull's Strength can be quite nice--it's almost like tossing on Aid at the same time. Besides, it's not like the Weapon Focus/Specialization is anything to die for (unless you're getting some really nice weapon with it too and plan to deal damage frequently).

[arguskos]

If you're in a melee heavy party and don't want to get in the fray, then giving temporary hit points with that Bull's Strength can be quite nice--it's almost like tossing on Aid at the same time. Besides, it's not like the Weapon Focus/Specialization is anything to die for (unless you're getting some really nice weapon with it too and plan to deal damage frequently).
This is pretty much my thought. Even if you ARE a combat tank, well, then your buff routine is better for it (a 4th level spell gives 12 temp hp, that's not amazing, but pretty good for replacing Weapon Foc/Spec, feats I tend to think of as useless, or use-impaired at best).

I'd definitely go with the Temp HP alt. feature, just cause it replaces something of debatable usefulness, and gives you something that is always fun. Also, at higher levels, it gives temp hp to anyone and everyone affected by the spell, making mass cures even better. :smallbiggrin:

-argus

[Arros Winhadren]

I see. I also thought that it replaced the favored weapon proficiency you got from your god, so I was worried about that a bit. In that case I'll definitely do that. So far I've got the alternate FS, proficiency with some crazy exotic weapon of choice and I'll pick up the Augmented Healing feat for sure. I'll skip the Vows for the sake of being mildly useful in battle for at least early levels. As for spells, am I correct in that I get all the spells listed under Cleric here (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Spell-Summaries-byClass.pdf)?

[Worira]

Since you get proficiency in your deity's weapon for free, it's a good idea to pick something exotic. The Goliath Greathammer, for instance.

Actually, it only gives martial weapon proficiency:


War Domain
Granted Power

Free Martial Weapon Proficiency with deity’s favored weapon (if necessary) and Weapon Focus with the deity’s favored weapon.

[Vortling]

Actually, it only gives martial weapon proficiency:

They're talking about the Favored Soul's class feature, not the war domain. It gives proficiency in your diety's favored weapon, regardless of what that weapon requires for proficiency.



As for spells, am I correct in that I get all the spells listed under Cleric here?


Sorta. You're a spontaneous spellcaster so you pick a certain number of spells off that list based off the favored soul's spells know table on page 8 of Complete Divine. Pick wisely, you do obtain the chance to swap spells out at 4th and every even level after but your spells know list is much more limited.

You're a divine version of the sorcerer, to sum it up succintly.

[Worira]

They're talking about the Favored Soul's class feature, not the war domain. It gives proficiency in your diety's favored weapon, regardless of what that weapon requires for proficiency.


Ah, curses. I knew they were talking about the favoured soul, but I had assumed it worked the same way as the War domain. And people thinking the War domain grants exotic weapon proficiency is a pretty common mistake.


Seeing as Pun-Pun is the god of Char Op, I vote spiked chain.

[arguskos]

Seeing as Pun-Pun is the god of Char Op, I vote spiked chain.
Or falchion.

-argus

[Arros Winhadren]

Heck, why not go for Great Falchion?

For some reason the whip dagger intrigues me, but every time I think of it a little voice in my head says, "No, that's dumb. Stop being dumb."

[arguskos]

Does the Great Falchion have the same crit range as the normal one? If so, go for it. If not, screw it.

Ooo, ooo, I know a good weapon: the greatmaul, from the monster entry in MM4 for the Greathorn Minotaur. If you don't have that book, it's a d12, 19-20/x4 weapon. Two handed, weighs 30 lbs. Also, it grants a +2 bonus on sunders, cause it's a block of steel roughly 3 feet thick and a foot across. :smallbiggrin:

-argus

[Hal]

Don't take levels in Duskblade. It's one of those classes where you have to go all or nothing to be effective at all. Besides, even then, you'd have to attack your allies with a whip to get any effectiveness out of the spell channeling. That just gets messy. However, this might allow you to channel Inflict X Wounds spells, which isn't a total loss.

Good feats to consider if you're going heal-bot are Augment Healing (CD) and Touch of Healing (CC). I second the suggestion, however, that you consider heavily the Healer class, as you're wasting some of the Favored Soul potential by being a healer. If you do that, be sure to take Spontaneous Healer (CD) as well.

[Arros Winhadren]

I see. I had read numerous times that Healers were nigh worthless, so I had decided not to take the class. I think we might have a paladin of some sort (someone's getting lay on hands) so some other sort of effectiveness is important too. I'm thinking of dumping Wisdom for Strength in combat, and pumping Charisma for my spells. Healers get a pool of spells similar to the FS, right? Though actually I'd read somewhere that they regain their spells after an hour of meditation. If that's the case then they might be worth it.

[Hal]

I see. I had read numerous times that Healers were nigh worthless, so I had decided not to take the class. I think we might have a paladin of some sort (someone's getting lay on hands) so some other sort of effectiveness is important too. I'm thinking of dumping Wisdom for Strength in combat, and pumping Charisma for my spells. Healers get a pool of spells similar to the FS, right? Though actually I'd read somewhere that they regain their spells after an hour of meditation. If that's the case then they might be worth it.

Well, Healers are thought that way because healing is all they're good for, whereas other classes (*cough*Cleric*cough*) have much greater versatility. However, if you're making a dedicated healer and you don't want to go Cleric, then Healer is about as good as it's going to get. A Favored Soul can still be a good healer, but it's wasted potential.

Healers have to prepare their spells similar to a Cleric. They can use anything on the list, but have to spend an hour praying to get the spells they want.

[Arros Winhadren]

What if I wanted to be an evil healer? Can Healers be evil? I don't want to be a typical "save the world" sort of guy, I want to be creepy. I want my patients to think twice before accepting healing from me.

Edit: The class description says that Healers must be good, but I'll ask my DM to see if I can be evil, with a different animal companion than Unicorn. I could feel people up when I heal them.

Edit 2: Healers have a spell list similar to Sorcerors/FS. Not much room for evil, but that's what roleplaying is for, I suppose. I can always make viagra and pass it off as healing potions.

[Curmudgeon]

Seeing as Pun-Pun is the god of Char Op, I vote spiked chain.
You don't have to actually try to break the system to get an exotic weapon. The existing FR deity Kossuth has spiked chain as his favored weapon. Kossuth is an interesting deity in another way, too: he can be treated as either Neutral or Lawful Neutral. One step from either of those lets you choose from 7 of the 9 alignments -- everything except CG and CE.

EDIT: There are many D&D deities, and a number of them favor exotic weapons. The Mockery is an Eberron deity who favors kama. Waukeen goes for nunchaku. Eilistraee, Finder Wyvernspur, Helm, Kelemvor, and Kord all like bastard swords; Mayaheine prefers a bastard sword+shield combo. Lolth, of course, favors her whips, and so do Sharindlar and Sune. Urogalan likes any flail, including dire flails. Eldath, Istus, and Sotillion all use nets. And Lliira, Mystra, and Tymora all favor shuriken.

[Cainen]

DON'T take levels in Healer unless you can verify a fix with your DM. It's a terrible class which is actually -worse- at doing its job than an equivalent, healing-focused Cleric.

[tiercel]

For out-of-combat healing, you will want to look at the vigor line of spells -- they easily trump the cure spells if you don't mind the wait, and in-combat healing is often pretty weak after the very lowest levels (when a cure can actually heal a fair percentage of your hit points) until you get full-on heal. (And if you are only worried about out-of-combat healing, then, as mentioned, you hardly even need spells -- a wand of lesser vigor would clock in at the same cost as a CLW wand and would give you a guaranteed 11 hp per charge.)

But yeah, if you want full-on healing, you kind of wonder about just going cleric with Healing Domain into Radiant Servant of Pelor, and then one of the feats or variants that lets you spontaneously cast domain spells. Boom. (Yes, you can already spontaneously cast cures, but spontaneously casting out of your domain you can keep pumping your empowered healing....

But you don't want Cleric, and that's cool. If you aren't keen on getting into melee, it make sense to flush your WF/Spec for some temporary hit point buffing action... just make sure you choose enough useful buff spells that you have plenty of excuses to throw around those "free" temporary hit points.

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You'll want to be careful in your spell selection though -- while the short-duration stat-boosting spells are nice when you can use them, they become obsolete at even mid levels since they don't stack with the enhancement bonuses you get from stat-boosting equipment. Don't take more than one stat-boosting spell, and be ready to swap it out at higher levels once everyone is getting Con or Str items anyway.

Protection from evil is a nice spell to be able to spam -- at low levels, the AC/save bonus is pretty sweet, and when those start getting obsoleted by equipment the mind-control protection and hedging out summons is still useful. If you are going to be a heal/buff bot, sanctuary is certainly worth it (and would be even nicer if you could boost its DC!).

Healing lorecall is practically written for a character like yours -- while it's active, you can be removing negative status effects with every normal healing spell. Sweet.

For that matter, if you are playing purely a support character then against spellcasting enemies you'll definitely want silence -- when you see a significant enemy spellcaster, just ready an action to throw silence centered right in front of the Bad Guy as soon as they start casting. It's like an automatic counterspell.

Resist energy and lesser restoration on demand are pretty sweet, especially at higher levels when you are increasingly likely to be subjected to more unusual elemental/ability score attacks. (Heck, if you have room in your "spells known", augury on demand is not shabby, and gives you an interesting ability that doesn't rely on your buddies getting hurt/immediately about to get hurt.)

Even if your character isn't a subscriber to "the best defense is a good offense," you can still layer your defense to be proactive as well as reactive -- after all, it's often cheaper to *prevent* damage than to heal it.

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I tend to stay away from Vows, even if they are mechanically advantageous, if nothing else just because of the whole Exalted thing. Seriously. Being Exalted makes a paladin's code of conduct look like recess on an elementary school playground, in terms of restrictiveness.

Besides, with your heinous stats, you might as well at least reserve the ability to wade into melee *when necessary*, even if you don't really build your character that direction. (If nothing else, Bad Guys won't always give you the choice -- smart baddies will tend to try to take you out of the action.)

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Duskblade is pretty much not compatible -- it sounds like you want something like the Hierophant PrC's Divine Reach ability, but you can't get that until high level and you have to give up a caster level then. There is the Reach Spell feat, of course....

[Arros Winhadren]

Wow, I feel bad now because of all that great advice that I didn't get. My game was yesterday afternoon, so I just made a healer and went with it. I have to say that the healing was pretty good though - when your Cure Minors do around 6 hp I count that as good healing, and two Cure Moderates got our Barbarian up to 41 from his 3 hp. This is acceptable to me, since healing is what I'm here for. I don't mind the 1 hour it takes to regain all my spells either.

I did manage to get my Healer to be evil, and at level 8 I have my choice between a Black Unicorn and a Nightmare. After that I'm considering Prc'ing out, but I doubt there are divine caster classes that require evil alignment. Though who knows?

[Chronicled]

I did manage to get my Healer to be evil, and at level 8 I have my choice between a Black Unicorn and a Nightmare. After that I'm considering Prc'ing out, but I doubt there are divine caster classes that require evil alignment. Though who knows?

I'd pick the Nightmare, because a flaming horse is much more badass than Black Beauty with a horn.

Ur-Priest is one, Blackguard another, and that's just off the top of my head. Plus Black Flame Zealot is "any nongood" IIRC.

[Curmudgeon]

Ur-Priest is one, Blackguard another, and that's just off the top of my head.
Well, just going off the top of my own head, doesn't Ur-Priest require that the character not be a divine caster?

[Griffin131]

Well, just going off the top of my own head, doesn't Ur-Priest require that the character not be a divine caster?
No. It loses all divine casting, but you can be a divine caster all you want before you go in.