So when did Vaarsuvius find the time to marry? (Origin spoilers)

[Kaytara]

This is what I've been wondering about. On hir application card, V wrote that V's 103 years old. Even if we assume V lied about hir age, V is probably still rather young for an elf, and I think it safe to assume that the backstory we saw in Origins is true.

(spoilered for the sake of those too weak to heed the warning in the thread title)
In Origins, we see that Vaarsuvius, still as a little pre-pubescent child, 19 years old, was introduced to magic by the wizard Aarindarius. "Soon", with V in hir forties, V became apprenticed to that wizard and studied magic for the next sixty years. Then, V was kicked out to see the world. Presumably seeking both to test hirself against powerful wizards and earn some clout in the wizarding world, V challenged the Iron Mages, and following that disaster, joined Roy's party and became an adventurer. Then the plot happens. All things considered, V should still be a hundred and something years old in OotS.

What bothers me is... When exactly did a studious and magic-obsessed individual like Vaarsuvius find the time to pursue a romantic relationship at what is barely an adult age for elves, much less marry someone? "...years to realise our feelings for one another", for elves, implies at least a few decades, so V must have met hir future mate when V hirself was still a teenager, and rushing that kind of decision hardly seems in-character.

Another question would be 'where?'. If V spent all hir time learning magic, a likely candidate would be another apprentice or the like, but if so, why would V simply let hirself be kicked out like that?

The only explanation I can think of is that Vaarsuvius really IS "centuries-old", rather than a mere 103. Then again, this has been suggested many times but I still don't think lying is characteristic for Vaarsuvius... I may be mistaken but I can't think of many significant instances when V displayed any chaotic behaviour at all... (Well, aside from trying to blow Miko up, but that's been debated to death already...)

[holywhippet]

There are many possibilities. V's spouse might be a planar creature that his/her master used to summon into his tower to work with. They'd have to be receiving deliveries of food and other components, V's spouse might have been someone who visited regularly.

It could have been another apprentice who had already graduated - clearly V isn't worried about long term seperation, although that would be somewhat short term for a long lived elf.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Then again, this has been suggested many times but I still don't think lying is characteristic for Vaarsuvius... I may be mistaken but I can't think of many significant instances when V displayed any chaotic behaviour at all...

So lying is chaotic and keeping your word is lawful? Sounds like the start of an argument on alignment.

[Kaytara]

So lying is chaotic and keeping your word is lawful? Sounds like the start of an argument on alignment.

...Which is completely unnecessary. >_< I don't know why I threw the alignment in there, the point is, whatever V's alignment is, we haven't actually seen V lie about anything so far, so lying about hir age would be out of character.

And holywippet, it could be something like that but it's my impression that the many years it took V and hir mate to realise they loved each other were many years of more or less constant company, not just brief visits. This is somewhat open to interpretation, but that's my impression.

And... an older apprentice... Could be, I guess. Marrying at an early age still seems largely out of character for elves, though. Besides, as you mentioned, wouldn't a newly married elf couple spend at least a century or two together before leaving each other's company to later rekindle their love? With V, it sounds like they got married and then separated shortly thereafter. Doing anything briefly really isn't common for elves. Even if they had separated because of actual relationship problems, those still should have taken a couple more decades to manifest...

[Chronos]

One possibility I've seen floated is that Aarindarius is Vaarsuvius's mate. That seems like a bit of a cop-out to me, though.

[Warren Dew]

"...years to realise our feelings for one another", for elves, implies at least a few decades

Does it? Years are the same for humans and elves; elves just get more of them. Perhaps that comment was actually the equivalent of a human saying "months to realize our feelings for one another". If it had been decades, I think Vaarsuvius would have said "decades".

This might not be that long a separation for Vaarsuvius. If you're going to live centuries, it might not be that big a deal to go off to adventure for a couple of years.

[Kool-Aid]

Is it also possible that it could have been an arranged marriage? I've heard of a few places where the marriage is decided at birth and they marry very young. Besides, who may know how different elven beliefs of marriage differ from humans.

[Kaytara]

Is it also possible that it could have been an arranged marriage? I've heard of a few places where the marriage is decided at birth and they marry very young. Besides, who may know how different elven beliefs of marriage differ from humans.

The material implies that V and hir mate fell in love and THEN got married, as opposed to marrying a stranger and eventually learning to love him/her.


Does it? Years are the same for humans and elves; elves just get more of them. Perhaps that comment was actually the equivalent of a human saying "months to realize our feelings for one another". If it had been decades, I think Vaarsuvius would have said "decades".

I think it does. Considering that elves both live longer and need to worry about bodily needs a lot less often than humans, one could say that they have a genuinely different perception of time, mainly an insensitivity to its passing. They are capable of focussing on a single task for much longer than humans, so it would be logical to assume that they would engage in certain activities for a longer time and therefore two elves would spend at least a decade or two getting to know each other before marrying.

Also, there's the thing that really getting to know, fall in love and become soulmates with a person who is centuries old probably takes longer than with a person who's 20. So yes. I don't think elves are prone to rushing ANY kind of decision, let alone marriage, and spontaneously deciding to marry someone after just a couple years of knowing them WOULD be rushing it, for an elf.

[hamishspence]

OOTS, like Zogonia, parodies elven slow aging, by making quips about them spending years in diapers. However, in game, elves grow to maturity only slightly slower than humans.

maybe V had a fellow apprentice who V got to know over a long time. Or maybe V and V's mate got together during the few-year period between being V being kicked out of the tower, and V meeting the Order.

[teratorn]

This is what I've been wondering about. On hir application card, V wrote that V's 103 years old.

In No Cure for the Paladin Blues V appears in the character list as 130 (?) years old.

[Lira]

Regarding V's age... I think Rich made a mistake when he wrote Origins/or changed his mind after and decided 103 is too young so he changed the age to 130 in No Cure (and apparently in the board game too, although I don't own it so I can't verify that).

Although, the official word is that V lied on his/her application sheet:

Second, that's what V wrote down on his application to work with Roy. As in all things OOTS, that just means that's what he wrote down, not that it's what is actually true. Don't tell me you've never met anyone who lied about their age? ;):smallconfused:

[Charles Phipps]

It's easy to imagine how they courted.

RIVALRY

[d'Bwobsling]

One possibility I've seen floated is that Aarindarius is Vaarsuvius's mate. That seems like a bit of a cop-out to me, though.

That makes some sense. The Giant said he was going to reveal V's mate before the end of the comic and he also said that he would never reveal V's gender, so who ever V's mate is, s/he's also going to have a hidden gender

Edit: my opologies if I spark a V's gender debate here.

[AceOfFools]

A theory:

V told the same lie to the people who wrote the Iron Mage introduction that he told to Roy, and when giving them his history she left out a couple of personal details he didn't particularly care to share with the studio audience. V's smart enough to cover up the lie by omiting a few decades.

She does refuse to share the same details that are withheld from us from his adventuring companions, (but perhaps not with a close friend she's known however long as he's known Haley).

Speaking of which, when in that timeline does V befriend a human rogue?

[Kaytara]

The explanation that V is several decades older than V says V is (boy, this sentence sounds weird...) makes sense. It makes the possibility of having already found a SO more plausible. And as someone said, if V wanted to conceal those details, simply omitting a few decades would be the way to do it, rather than eventually being questioned about what V was doing in those blank few decades... So this also gives V a motivation for lying about hir age. I was wondering about that, too.



Speaking of which, when in that timeline does V befriend a human rogue?

I'm going to assume you haven't read Origins and are asking for a specific piece of information from that book, namely for how long V has known Haley.


4 days before the start of the comic. Nothing there says they couldn't have met earlier than then, but Haley was currently on an adventuring/money-gathering spree after leaving Greysky City so it's safe to assume they hadn't crossed paths before....

[Ghastly Epigram]

I'm going to assume you haven't read Origins and are asking for a specific piece of information from that book, namely for how long V has known Haley.


4 days before the start of the comic. Nothing there says they couldn't have met earlier than then, but Haley was currently on an adventuring/money-gathering spree after leaving Greysky City so it's safe to assume they hadn't crossed paths before....

I never really bought that explanation to be honest. V is evidently much closer to Haley than the other members of the OOTS, and I just don't see that happening from a 4 day difference. I mean, Haley was the only one who knew V was married, and V is evidently not the kind of person to just share that with anyone they meet.

No, I reckon they knew each other before that (And I think the way they act in that scene supports that).

[Kaytara]

I never really bought that explanation to be honest. V is evidently much closer to Haley than the other members of the OOTS, and I just don't see that happening from a 4 day difference. I mean, Haley was the only one who knew V was married, and V is evidently not the kind of person to just share that with anyone they meet.

No, I reckon they knew each other before that (And I think the way they act in that scene supports that).

I find that unlikely. My impression was that Vaarsuvius, following that unfortunate incident, went to a tavern and ran into Haley. Haley was curious to see an elven wizard in such a setting and started asking questions. V was only too happy to indulge her and share hir tale of woe. Because of her willingness to listen and give sound advice and her initiative on V's behalf (introducing the elf to Roy), V had already formed a tighter bond with her by the time the Order was formed, while the rest of the team were still complete strangers. Since V and Haley met before the Order was formed, however shortly, they would've been more open with each other afterwards.

Even if it's just four days, it's the fact that there's a difference at all that counts. V and Haley already had much more in common than they and any other member of the Order when it was formed and I think that played an important psychological role in getting V to reveal more about hirself.

Besides, there's that comment by Haley. "You guys didn't know V was married?" To me, that implies that V had shared personal information with Haley since joining the Order, and Haley was surprised V hadn't shared that information with anyone else. The main implication being that V has had as much time to share it with the other members of the gang as with Haley. Meaning that, basically, V's known the others for approximately as long as V's known Haley.

The bottom line is, if you've known someone for years and have learned many personal things about them, and then learn that the person hasn't told those things to people who (s)he has known for a significantly shorter time, you probably wouldn't be surprised. It took you a long time to get to know your friend that well, after all, why should others get the same amount of information in less time?

[holywhippet]

The character notes in No cure for the Paladin blues clearly states that V has a pre-existing friendship with Haley.

[Tricia]

There's only one problem with some of the previous theories about V and Haley.

The first time we see them together in Origins, Haley refers to V as...well...V. Vaarsuvius refers to him/herself as Vaarsuvius when introducing him/herself, so it's unlikely that if V had just introduced him/herself to Haley, that she would suddenly call a complete stranger by a friendly nickname like that.

There is the possibility that Haley did it because of a lack of being able to pronounce Vaarsuvius, but this is unlikely. The way they interact implies a good deal of familiarity between the two of them. How much exactly is another question entirely.

[Warren Dew]

Also, there's the thing that really getting to know, fall in love and become soulmates with a person who is centuries old probably takes longer than with a person who's 20. So yes. I don't think elves are prone to rushing ANY kind of decision, let alone marriage, and spontaneously deciding to marry someone after just a couple years of knowing them WOULD be rushing it, for an elf.

I'd agree that elves are not prone to rushing things for humans. However, there's no reason to believe that they wouldn't rush things for elves. For another perspective, people who are only centuries old are always going to be rushing around from the perspective of beings who live for millenia. It's all a matter of scale.

I think the simplest interpretation is to take Vaarsuvius' words at face value. Vaarsuvius thinks that taking a few years to decide on a mate was enough time, and to humans used to human time scales that seems correct, but most elves would think that in fact, Vaarsuvius rushed into marriage and is just too young and inexperienced to realize that yet.

One comment on Vaarsuvius not mentioning the marriage to anyone but Haley: I think that's just a joke about sex stereotypes; probably no one but Haley asked, because males don't think to ask that kind of thing.

[Kaytara]

Fair points. Although the Order doesn't actually meet any other elves, so whether another elf would think that V rushed it with the marriage is a largely theoretical question.

So far I like the explanation that V is somewhat older and has had more time for romance the best.

Also, I don't have No Cure For the Paladin Blues yet, so I stand corrected regarding V and Haley's relationship.