Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann

[drawingfreak]

This over the top action anime is now being aired on the Sci-Fi Channel every Monday at 11pm EST. Two episodes, back to back, of pure awesomeness.

Imagine everything you hated about a mech anime not being in one. Imagine characters filled with over the top manliness that there is no stopping them. Imagine the main character going through the whiny stage for only episode INSTEAD OF THE WHOLE *BOOP*ING SERIES! *eyes Neon Genesis Evangelion*

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is about a boy named Simon (pronounced See-moan) and his best friend/non-biological "brother" Kamina. They have lived in an underground cavern all their lives with the open sky being nothing but a myth to them and their village. One day, Simon stumbles upon an ancient artifact as he is digging new tunnels for the community. A mech known as a Gunmen than Kamina is quick to name Lagann. Everything escalates from there as they meet their destiny and kick logic to the curb.

Its fun, action packed and the dub is...good enough. Enjoy.

[Tengu_temp]

TTGL is the real man's kids' show. Nuff said.

[hanzo66]

Saw a small clip of the dub. It's decent, though there's obviously going to be whiners out there stating that it's wrong-sounding or crap.

[drawingfreak]

The only problem so far is Kamina's voice...not manly enough. He's decent enough when not all actiony and yelling, but Kamina does that a lot.

[Justyn]

The only problem so far is Kamina's voice...not manly enough. He's decent enough when not all actiony and yelling, but Kamina does that a lot.

My only beef with Kamina's voice is that it's a bit too high, should be a little deeper; same with Dayakka.

And I always assumed that Simon's name would be pronounced "Sigh-mon", the usual pronunciation; his voice is spot on for me.

And Leeron is faaabulous (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlamboyantGay).

[Tengu_temp]

I've seen some scenes from the dub (http://youtube.com/watch?v=oT1WMSOiFig&feature=related) and I must say that it's decent. The voices seem to fit well - even Furry Char's, and it's hard to make a good voice for a character already voiced by The Most Hot-Blooded Seiyu.

I'll still prefer the sub, though. But I'm a sub guy.

Also, I find the bit at the end of the trailer hilarious:
Producers not responsible for random fits of giddy delirium. Well, okay, maybe we are, since we did produce the show that induces said giddy fits of anime induced happiness, but if you watch anime you have to expect that sometimes and we're not paying to get that grin on your face surgically removed no matter what, so there. Remember to eat and take in liquids while watching marathon sessions (defined as non-stop viewing sessions lasting more than 6 hours) and PLEASE go to the bathroom if you feel the urge, that's why they invented the pause buttons. Also, chew your food slowly, close your mouth while eating, bathe regularily and always say please and thank you when asking for the creamed corn. Gurren Lagann is a work of fiction and any resemblance to actual personalities is not only purely coincidental, but also indicated that people who see said resemblances are probably living way too deep in their own fantasy worlds. Do not attempt to imitate actions or behaviour seen on this show, unless you are a really hot babe who wants to dress like Yoko, in which case we're all for it. Gurren Lagann available via the finest video retailers, if they don't have Gurren Lagann tell them to get it for you. Now!

[Behold_the_Void]

I heard Sci-fi is clipping some scenes to make room for more commercials, which is pretty fail. Dub isn't bad though.

[Blayze]

and it's hard to make a good voice for a character already voiced by The Most Hot-Blooded Seiyu.

Wrong, it's easy: Brett Weaver. The man's CV should read "I voice screaming crazies". Sadly, when the rights went to Bandai, he was dropped from Kamina's role. I emailed him about it, and he said something about "They didn't want to pay for my travel fees" or something like that. Such a pity.

[Xuincherguixe]

It's a wonderful show that just keeps getting more and more wonderful as time goes by. It should come with a warning though. Some people might not be able to handle that much awesome, and will explode.

[Ossian]

Nice that they dubbed, but it just does not sound the same, like, a lot less "hype".

BAKERO!!!!!!!!!!!! (impossible) has to be uttered in Jappo!

By the way, I loved the message at the end of the trailer.

Oh and yesterday jogging in the Rehberge Park (Berlin Wedding) i stumbled upon this.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1088/788612151_ea5697a5b2.jpg?v=0

What do you think my reaction was? I had like the biggest adrenaline shot in weeks...

Ossian

[Reinforcements]

I just watched TTGL the other week so... I don't actually care that it's being shown on TV. But it is cool! Super-cool. Because TTGL is super-cool.

I always thought, though, that they should have taken a page out of Escaflowne's book and made Lord Genome secretly Charles Darwin.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Brett Weaver would have been better. That is all.

Okay, it's not all, 'cause I'll still say it's a pretty good dub (although the YouTube video appears to have been hacked together from Japanese video and the recording of a screening). I'll probably wait for the full dual-audio DVDs rather than try to catch it on Sci-Fi though.

[Oslecamo]

Here's what stoped me from becoming a TTGL fanboy:

Good Guys: Crap, we've completely fallen on the bad guy's trap, and they can now easily wipe us out!

Bad guys: Nah, we're just gonna make you feel sorrowfull.

Good guys: Hmm, you killed half our team, claimed that you wanted to keep dominating the universe, and now you're not gonna finish us?

Bad guys:Yes, all we'll gonna do is make you feel sorrowfull

Good guys:Like, we're coming up with a plan to get out of this trap, still sure you don't want to deliver the killing blow?

Bad guys: No, please, go ahead, the directors will murder my family if I don't let you win.

Good guys:We'll murder your family anyway if we get out of here.

Bad guys: Well, yeah, but the directors didn't remember giving me brains, so I really can't win this.

Good guys: Sigh. All right. Now, let's win by destroying several galaxies obliterating countless civilizations!

The good guys could never lose because they have a plot shield rivaliring with squirrel girl. Simple as that. Not even Hellsing was ever such a one sided fight.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I could try refuting all of your points there, or I could just do as the writers intended, sit back, and enjoy the ridiculousness that you're pointing out.

[Ossian]

Here's what stoped me from becoming a TTGL fanboy:

Good Guys: Crap, we've completely fallen on the bad guy's trap, and they can now easily wipe us out!

Bad guys: Nah, we're just gonna make you feel sorrowfull.

Good guys: Hmm, you killed half our team, claimed that you wanted to keep dominating the universe, and now you're not gonna finish us?

Bad guys:Yes, all we'll gonna do is make you feel sorrowfull

Good guys:Like, we're coming up with a plan to get out of this trap, still sure you don't want to deliver the killing blow?

Bad guys: No, please, go ahead, the directors will murder my family if I don't let you win.

Good guys:We'll murder your family anyway if we get out of here.

Bad guys: Well, yeah, but the directors didn't remember giving me brains, so I really can't win this.

Good guys: Sigh. All right. Now, let's win by destroying several galaxies obliterating countless civilizations!

The good guys could never lose because they have a plot shield rivaliring with squirrel girl. Simple as that. Not even Hellsing was ever such a one sided fight.


:)

Look, your post makes a lot of sense. I mean, you reason well.

TTGL is about kicking reason to the curb!

TTGL then kick your post to the curb with a milky way sized SUPER GIGA DURILLLU!!! (come on, can you not appreciate the beauty of that? Milky Way sized!)

O.

[hanzo66]

Here's what stoped me from becoming a TTGL fanboy:

Good Guys: Crap, we've completely fallen on the bad guy's trap, and they can now easily wipe us out!

Bad guys: Nah, we're just gonna make you feel sorrowfull.

Good guys: Hmm, you killed half our team, claimed that you wanted to keep dominating the universe, and now you're not gonna finish us?

Bad guys:Yes, all we'll gonna do is make you feel sorrowfull

Good guys:Like, we're coming up with a plan to get out of this trap, still sure you don't want to deliver the killing blow?

Bad guys: No, please, go ahead, the directors will murder my family if I don't let you win.

Good guys:We'll murder your family anyway if we get out of here.

Bad guys: Well, yeah, but the directors didn't remember giving me brains, so I really can't win this.

Good guys: Sigh. All right. Now, let's win by destroying several galaxies obliterating countless civilizations!

The good guys could never lose because they have a plot shield rivaliring with squirrel girl. Simple as that. Not even Hellsing was ever such a one sided fight.
The show is meant to be campy and ridiculous. That's why the robots never get more complicated than...

1. Push that lever over on your right/left/wherever.
2. Make sure to have burning spirit/whatever.

That whole Galaxy Technique is just there to be cool, Moral Dissonance aside. The characters are too hot-blooded to care about insignificant non-human potential civilizations!

[Behold_the_Void]

Here's what stoped me from becoming a TTGL fanboy:

Good Guys: Crap, we've completely fallen on the bad guy's trap, and they can now easily wipe us out!

Bad guys: Nah, we're just gonna make you feel sorrowfull.

Good guys: Hmm, you killed half our team, claimed that you wanted to keep dominating the universe, and now you're not gonna finish us?

Bad guys:Yes, all we'll gonna do is make you feel sorrowfull

Good guys:Like, we're coming up with a plan to get out of this trap, still sure you don't want to deliver the killing blow?

Bad guys: No, please, go ahead, the directors will murder my family if I don't let you win.

Good guys:We'll murder your family anyway if we get out of here.

Bad guys: Well, yeah, but the directors didn't remember giving me brains, so I really can't win this.

Good guys: Sigh. All right. Now, let's win by destroying several galaxies obliterating countless civilizations!

The good guys could never lose because they have a plot shield rivaliring with squirrel girl. Simple as that. Not even Hellsing was ever such a one sided fight.

The show isn't about the good guys losing, it's about them triumphing over impossible odds. This is hardly a new concept.

[Tengu_temp]

That whole Galaxy Technique is just there to be cool, Moral Dissonance aside.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the final battle took place in anti-spiral space. No civilisations there. Apart from anti-spirals, but they're evil.

And the good guys didn't win because of plot shield. They won because they had the BURNING SPIRIT! And in TTGL, it's the thing that matters most.

[Cubey]

EDIT: Tengu made my post redundant. I hate him.

[hanzo66]

Actually, I'm pretty sure the final battle took place in anti-spiral space. No civilisations there. Apart from anti-spirals, but they're evil.

And the good guys didn't win because of plot shield. They won because they had the BURNING SPIRIT! And in TTGL, it's the thing that matters most.
Hmm, I guess destroying Always Chaotic Evil maybe-civilizations are acceptable and I guess in the show a spirit that's burning enough will protect anyone from anything... And make you the biggest badass in a mech ever to become President in other cases.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Hmm, I guess destroying Always Chaotic Evil maybe-civilizations are acceptable and I guess in the show a spirit that's burning enough will protect anyone from anything... And make you the biggest badass in a mech ever to become President in other cases.Are you referring to Simon or to Michael Wilson?

I was also under the impression, though I could be wrong, that the space they were fighting in was either a) created by the Anti-Spiral for the battle or b) the Anti-Spiral's home universe, which was purged of all or almost all sapient life other than their little collective, as per policy.

[warty goblin]

So I read the Wikipedia page, and I suppose it says horrible things about me that I actually agree with the bad guys in this show. I mean, keeping the universe from collapsing into a singularity doesn't strike me as a particularly nefarious goal.

[Tengu_temp]

What makes them evil is not their goal, but their methods. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnightTemplar)

Seriously, have you never seen any setting where the bad guys are like that?

[Cubey]

Also. Here be spoilers - this thread is already full of them, but meh...
Anti-Spirals believe that the universe will collapse in a singularity because of Spiral beings, and even though their calculations show that it HAS to happen, Simon made it not happen. The first, very confusing scene of the series is a hypothetical "what if", showing Simon waging war against all the other Spirals (who end up their friends at the actual end of the series) and causing the singularity by what is probably a mistake.

[Terraoblivion]

And not only that, the value of the universe is pretty dubious when there is no sentient life, or even just life with the potential to evolve sentience. I mean it is there, but without life to observe it and interact with it, it could just as well not exist. The point of preventing it from collapsing is to prevent people from dying, if you kill all the people then you have only changed the way life goes extinct. Because really what is the point of having a lot of spheres spinning around by themselves? What is to be gained from ensuring that if life does not factor into the equation?

[AslanCross]

Good guys: Sigh. All right. Now, let's win by destroying several galaxies obliterating countless civilizations![/I]

The good guys could never lose because they have a plot shield rivaliring with squirrel girl. Simple as that. Not even Hellsing was ever such a one sided fight.

Did you miss the part where they were fighting in an alternate universe that the AntiSpirals used as their own prison? No innocent lives were lost there in that final battle.

[Tengu_temp]

Anyone else thinks that people who complain about the ending to TTGL are whiners?

Neither Nia nor Simon were saddened - only the audience was. And Simon does not become a hobo! He's some sort of a traveling mystic/hero.

[WarriorTribble]

Anti-Spirals believe that the universe will collapse in a singularity because of Spiral beings, and even though their calculations show that it HAS to happen, Simon made it not happen. The first, very confusing scene of the series is a hypothetical "what if", showing Simon waging war against all the other Spirals (who end up their friends at the actual end of the series) and causing the singularity by what is probably a mistake.Seems to me that so far it's simply delaying the inevitable. Unless one invents true hammer space or something.

Btw, are you sure it was a hypothetical future? I figured they were showing the past where Simon's distant ancestor was making his last stand against the anti-spirals.
Neither Nia nor Simon were saddened - only the audience was. And Simon does not become a hobo! He's some sort of a traveling mystic/hero.Well kind of hard to imagine two people loving each other and not feeling pain when their forced to separate prematurely. Simon became a traveling... something, but it's hard to imagine him doing anything significant while hiding from his friends. I imagine he inspired a mind or two, but Yoko probably did far better in that area being a teacher and all.

[UglyPanda]

I really really love this series. I don't usually like mecha series, but this was just too damn good.

A few thoughts:
Nia becoming the messenger of the Anti-Spirals just feels like the writers going out of their way in order to make sure that there would always be a damsel in distress.

Viral can pilot the Lagann despite the series repeatedly stating that Beastmen can't use Spiral energy. I know it's simply to be awesome, but what is he in there for if Simon is already used to piloting it on his own?

The later forms of the Gurren Lagann get very little screen time. I mean, the Arc-Gurren-Lagann appears for less than half an hour of screen-time before they try to move on to the Chouginga Gurren-Lagann. Then once they get it going, it's suddenly the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

I understand why Darry and Gimmy are with the group when they go to attack the Anti-Spirals, but weren't there a bunch of other Gulaparl pilots? Wouldn't there be some of them on the Chouginga Dai-Gurren as well?

[hanzo66]

Are you referring to Simon or to Michael Wilson?

I was also under the impression, though I could be wrong, that the space they were fighting in was either a) created by the Anti-Spiral for the battle or b) the Anti-Spiral's home universe, which was purged of all or almost all sapient life other than their little collective, as per policy.
Either...


It's been a while since I saw the series. Might have missed a few details.

[Nerd-o-rama]

A few thoughts:
Nia becoming the messenger of the Anti-Spirals just feels like the writers going out of their way in order to make sure that there would always be a damsel in distress.

Viral can pilot the Lagann despite the series repeatedly stating that Beastmen can't use Spiral energy. I know it's simply to be awesome, but what is he in there for if Simon is already used to piloting it on his own?

The later forms of the Gurren Lagann get very little screen time. I mean, the Arc-Gurren-Lagann appears for less than half an hour of screen-time before they try to move on to the Chouginga Gurren-Lagann. Then once they get it going, it's suddenly the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

I understand why Darry and Gimmy are with the group when they go to attack the Anti-Spirals, but weren't there a bunch of other Gulaparl pilots? Wouldn't there be some of them on the Chouginga Dai-Gurren as well?1) Some writers just love torturing their characters. Most of them work for Gainax.

2) He's just that hotblooded. Specifically, he probably adds some significant technical skill while Simon provides all the Spiral Power they could need.

3) Yeah, they just didn't pace the upgrades evenly. Personally, basic Gurren-Lagann is my favorite visually anyhow.

4) Pretty sure all the redshirts went, fought, and died. Because Gulaparls suck.

[Cubey]

Btw, are you sure it was a hypothetical future? I figured they were showing the past where Simon's distant ancestor was making his last stand against the anti-spirals.all.

Yes, I'm sure. Note how:
His aide is human-form Boota.

[Jack Squat]

I've actually seen part of this...they have a thing for drills.

Can't get past the ridiculousness of punching a hole in space time or tossing galaxies into each other though.

[Nerd-o-rama]

That only really starts in episode 23 of 27 or so. The principle is there at all times, it just scales up from very little.

[warty goblin]

What makes them evil is not their goal, but their methods. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnightTemplar)

Seriously, have you never seen any setting where the bad guys are like that?

I'm a little foggy on the details here, but it seems that the Anti-Spirals seek to keep the universe from decaying into a singularity (and hence killing them) by basically destroying/subjegating all sapient life (Wikipedia mentions that they do usually allow a civilization to surrender and thus the species to survive). The show's heroes seek to be not destroyed/subjegated by destroying the Anti-Spirals. Both sides are thus taking more or less the same action (destroying sapient life) in order to keep said sapient life from pursuing a course of action that will lead directly to their own destruction.

So the 'villians' only will destroy a species if it refuses to stop moving down a path that will lead to universal zenocide, while the 'heroes' refuse to surrender to what is, let's face it, a perfectly reasonable demand (don't destroy the universe) and in doing so commit a targetted zenocide.

I really must be missing something, but the villians are looking more and more heroic all the time to me.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Are you also a fan of SEELE, I wonder? They did have a similar good point, from a certain point of view, and they do probably have their fans.

Also, just watch the show. You're not going to get the whole picture from Wikipedia articles.

My personal perspective is, the Anti-Spiral want to oppress all sapient life into complete barbarism and hopelessness (or just nuke 'em if they resist) out of fear of destruction. The good guys are just revolting against an oppressive force, desiring freedom and self-determination. In the interest of board rules, I will quote Optimus Prime rather than Benjamin Franklin: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."

[hanzo66]

The whole thing might be a subversion of the Humans are Bastards/Dystopia type, where the Anti-Spirals are afraid that humans/Spiral Beings will go powerhungry and destroy the world (Power overwhelming, waaugh!). The ending is a saying that Humans would never do such a thing (IE a kick to the balls to the Imperium of Mankind).


At least, that's one way I heard of it.

[Artemician]

The whole thing might be a subversion of the Humans are Bastards/Dystopia type, where the Anti-Spirals are afraid that humans/Spiral Beings will go powerhungry and destroy the world (Power overwhelming, waaugh!). The ending is a saying that Humans would never do such a thing (IE a kick to the balls to the Imperium of Mankind).


At least, that's one way I heard of it.

That's the way I read it as well. And you know what? They were probably right. The Universe was *this* close away from being destroyed. This close. Simon prevented the Spiral Nemesis through his actions. How many human would you say would be able to do the same?

[Xuincherguixe]

In the context of that story? Probably a few. Not many, but a few. Simon wasn't the only one who could defy reason and pull victory out of inevitable failure. And even assuming that no one else could ever have that much spiral energy (which may or may not be related to how insanely brave a person is), they could always combine their power!

The Universe will definitely be saved.


... Sorry. The shows pure awesomeness got to me for a moment there.

[hanzo66]

Yeah, their belief was that someone like Simon had the potential to destroy the universe and ultimately they were not so much Always Chaotic Evil as they were Well-Intentioned Extremists. Their intention is to make sure no one gets too out of control with their power, this being exemplified by the Anti-Spiral's dying promise to Simon to protect the universe and Simon's response that humans are not that foolish (that is to abuse their power).


The show, after all is attempting to be a counter to those on the side of Cynicism in the Sliding Scale, countering the Humans are Bastards trope (humans are destined for great and positive things), the Crapsack World trope (Simon's actions eventually lead a Golden Age of Earth) and Corrupted by Power (The Alternate Ending/Opening).


At least that's how I see it...

[Artemician]

Yeah, their belief was that someone like Simon had the potential to destroy the universe and ultimately they were not so much Always Chaotic Evil as they were Well-Intentioned Extremists. Their intention is to make sure no one gets too out of control with their power, this being exemplified by the Anti-Spiral's dying promise to Simon to protect the universe and Simon's response that humans are not that foolish (that is to abuse their power).


The show, after all is attempting to be a counter to those on the side of Cynicism in the Sliding Scale, countering the Humans are Bastards trope (humans are destined for great and positive things), the Crapsack World trope (Simon's actions eventually lead a Golden Age of Earth) and Corrupted by Power (The Alternate Ending/Opening).


At least that's how I see it...

The tropes... laid on... too thickly.. can't breathe!

However, that's a great summary of the plot. :P

[WarriorTribble]

The show, after all is attempting to be a counter to those on the side of Cynicism in the Sliding Scale, countering the Humans are Bastards trope (humans are destined for great and positive things), the Crapsack World trope (Simon's actions eventually lead a Golden Age of Earth) and Corrupted by Power (The Alternate Ending/Opening).Well the show being Gainax and all, this remains to be seen. Until they can figure out a way to deal with the extra mass and energy generated by spiral energy, they still face the risk of one powerful entity destroying the universe through sheer hubris, or heck many entities simply living and growing destroying the universe eventually. For all we know humanity may be forced to adopt anti-spiral tactics and perhaps even become like them. Course this doesn't really follow with the show's idealism which makes the likes of Sailor Moon seem dark and depressing, but it does work logically. Then again perhaps Simon's decision to believe that everything isn't possible when he refused to resurrect Nia set a precedent?

[Tengu_temp]

Dood, remember that this show is on the idealistic side of the scale. The only humans powerful enough to have the capacity to cause Spiral Nemesis are those whose conscience wouldn't let them.

[Oslecamo]

The show isn't about the good guys losing, it's about them triumphing over impossible odds. This is hardly a new concept.

Ah, and that's where I disagree.

The show is about the good guys triumphing over impossible odds to lose, wich, well, means they would have to shoot themselves to don'y win.

Let's review the main absurdities:

1-The bad guys pilot mechas wich can easily be controled by their hatred enemies. No keys, no codes, you can pilot it just by siting on it and whining enough, like Kamina did. Who the hell designed those things? Ok, it was an human, but still, King Spiral was basically screaming for a revolution.

2-Kamina and Simon spend half their time making speeches with their mechas hatches open, and the enemies NEVER take a shot at them at this golden oportunities.

3-The good guys have, from the beggining, the strongest weapon on the universe, wich can do anything you want as long as you scream enough. The whole series is more like a group of elite real world comandos(bad guys) vs movie space marines(good guys).

My main point is, they may be fighting huge enemies, but those huge enemies are so idiotic that the good guys don't actully need to do anything to win. Just scream for enough time and some ex-machina will happen, in particular a new stronger weapon poping out of nowhere.

Like someone said, the show kicks logic out of the window. But in that case I will see Excel Saga, and not some mecha Mary Sue, thank you very much.

[WarriorTribble]

Dood, remember that this show is on the idealistic side of the scale. The only humans powerful enough to have the capacity to cause Spiral Nemesis are those whose conscience wouldn't let them.Since when? Spiral Energy comes from believing in yourself no matter what and possibly hanging around someone with alot of spiral power (almost like Sailor Moon heh). I see no reason why a megalomaniac who's say connvinced he/she's a god wouldn't gain the potential for Spiral Nemesis. Like Cubey, and others pointed out, Simon himself could've become such a person.

[hanzo66]

Ah, and that's where I disagree.

The show is about the good guys triumphing over impossible odds to lose, wich, well, means they would have to shoot themselves to don'y win.

Let's review the main absurdities:

1-The bad guys pilot mechas wich can easily be controled by their hatred enemies. No keys, no codes, you can pilot it just by siting on it and whining enough, like Kamina did. Who the hell designed those things? Ok, it was an human, but still, King Spiral was basically screaming for a revolution.

2-Kamina and Simon spend half their time making speeches with their mechas hatches open, and the enemies NEVER take a shot at them at this golden oportunities.

3-The good guys have, from the beggining, the strongest weapon on the universe, wich can do anything you want as long as you scream enough. The whole series is more like a group of elite real world comandos(bad guys) vs movie space marines(good guys).

My main point is, they may be fighting huge enemies, but those huge enemies are so idiotic that the good guys don't actully need to do anything to win. Just scream for enough time and some ex-machina will happen, in particular a new stronger weapon poping out of nowhere.

Like someone said, the show kicks logic out of the window. But in that case I will see Excel Saga, and not some mecha Mary Sue, thank you very much.

I see the show as intentionally silly and campy in a way. I equate it as the Hot Fuzz of Mecha Anime.

It's the show where determination and willpower trumps all, hence the term "Kick Logic To The Curb" which could also be determined as "Dumb is Good". Kamina, while having willpower and immense amounts of charisma is also the classic Idiot Hero who rarely uses tactics and such (he'll probably say it's not his style or something).

Simon is at the least somewhat less berserker-like and I prefer him to Kamina. He still has Kamina's charisma and Large Ham tendencies.

[Tengu_temp]

stuff

I think you're missing the point, starting from the convention and anything that follows, to what fuels the good guys in this show, to what Mary-Sue means.


Since when? Spiral Energy comes from believing in yourself no matter what and possibly hanging around someone with alot of spiral power (almost like Sailor Moon heh). I see no reason why a megalomaniac who's say connvinced he/she's a god wouldn't gain the potential for Spiral Nemesis. Like Cubey, and others pointed out, Simon himself could've become such a person.

You know, TTGL was actually described as a shonen version of Sailor Moon.
Anyway, such a megalomaniac might exist. However, in order to start Spiral Nemesis, he'd have to make use of his spiral energy, not simply possess it. And then he'd be stopped - probably the world would be on the verge of destruction, but he'd be stopped in the end, because that's how things work in a highly idealistic setting with laws of physics consisting entirely of Rule of Cool and Rule of Funny.
Simon had the potential, but went the other way in the end.

[hanzo66]

True, the idealistic feel of the setting would mean that anybody who wishes to destroy and such would be stopped as soon as someone makes a spirited enough speech or the Power Up Music plays.

Villains in such series are rarely going to be particularly devious/cunning (IE Azula pre:smallfurious:) or have motives other than "Wa ha ha! I am evil!".

[WarriorTribble]

You know, TTGL was actually described as a shonen version of Sailor Moon.Oh yea, many fans came to that conclusion. Think I even have an old journal post complaining about it :smallbiggrin:
Anyway, such a megalomaniac might exist. However, in order to start Spiral Nemesis, he'd have to make use of his spiral energy, not simply possess it. And then he'd be stopped - probably the world would be on the verge of destruction, but he'd be stopped in the end, because that's how things work in a highly idealistic setting with laws of physics consisting entirely of Rule of Cool and Rule of Funny.
Simon had the potential, but went the other way in the end.Perhaps, but like I mentioned the ending shows that this isn't a truly idealistic world. Simon and co. managed to defeat the Anti-Spirals by evolving beyond them, such a similar attempt would be devestating against another Spiral force. Multiple parties attempting to outdo each other by drawing more and more from the power of evolution is exactly what would cause the Spiral Nemesis. In the alternative universe with megalomaniac Simon, he caused the Spiral Nemesis just by being there. It ultimately wouldn't matter who is more moral/kickass/better, the only winner would be gravity.

[Tengu_temp]

I thought that alternative Simon caused Spiral Nemesis by unloading the full power of TTGL while being filled with megalomania and hate.

And dood, show me an example of a more idealistic setting than TTGL?

[WarriorTribble]

Emotions do affect spiral energy in some way (the whole scene where lagann rejected him for being angry emo), but imo free energy out of nowhere is all equally dangerous.

Hmm more idealistc.... Sailor Moon, she always managed to get her way even when the ultimate powers of good and evil were trying it's best to kill her. And then she ressurected all her dead friends to boot unlike another someone. Hell sometimes she won just by surrendering. The Star Trek series (except DS9) I think would also count as even worse. You are a main character, the universe will ultimately bend to your morals. Even the ancient omipotent beings who initially were testing humanity's worthiness...

[hanzo66]

I think you're missing the point, starting from the convention and anything that follows, to what fuels the good guys in this show, to what Mary-Sue means.

Really, Simon doesn't seem to overly Mary-Sueish, neither did Kamina. In Kamina's case, his foolishness and recklessness ended up being his end it seems.

Simon... Can't quite put it...