Duskblade + Green Star Adept

[Thurbane]

Are Duskblade and Green Star Adept a good combo?

I know you lose 5 casting levels with GSA, but the abilities it gives seem to synergize well with the combat focused Duskblade. Duskblade covers all the skill and BAB requirements for GSA, and even has the required feat as a bonus feat at 2nd level...

Besides which, I've always wanted to try out a GSA ever since I read it - who doesn't want to be a shiny green spellcasting statue? :smallbiggrin:

[Kurald Galain]

As I recall, GSA breaks your Con score, which might not be all that practical for a frontliner...

[Rad]

As I recall, GSA breaks your Con score, which might not be all that practical for a frontliner...

If you are on a low-ish point buy system you might not have a good con to begin with. Or you could have a HUGE RP reason to do it. Green Star Adepts are among the few things in D&D (along with lichdom) that can make you immortal. I honestly expect many wisards to try to become GSA even if it has smaller benefits short term (once you get epic you just get Practiced Spellcaster those many times to completely offset it, and you have all the time in the world to do it).
Of course it sucks if you want to play it from a power perspective of non epic characters.

[Nerd-o-rama]

If you take Green Star Adept all the way to tenth level, you miss out on Full Attack Channel (which is considered the capstone ability of the Duskblade, despite happening at 13th level) and sixth-level spells (i.e. Disintegrate).

Don't have my books in front of me so I can't say whether it's worth it at the moment, just making observations.

[AstralFire]

Generally Gishy-PrCs don't play nice with the Duskblade. Or many PrCs in general, really.

[Person_Man]

No.

Green Star Adept (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041105a) has 7/10 BAB, half caster progression, and mediocre class abilities.

[GrandMasterMe]

Anyone:*cough* Worst prestige class ever says what
GSA: whhaat?

[AstralFire]

I would rather play a Green Star Adept than a Dragon Disciple. Or a 3.0 Spellsword.

[Gorbash]

Dragon Disciple isn't meant for casters, anyway. He get's NA, Str and Con bonuses, claws and bite, d12 HD and 7/10 AB, so the best way to play a DD is to take say, a Barbarian, take a 1 lvl dip into sorcerer/bard and then take the Dragon Disciple prestige class.

[Aquillion]

It's still pretty awful, though. You trade your spellcasting ability for a Bard's BAB, some minor defensive perks, and absolutely no useful combat abilities to support it. Defensive classes suck; this is almost a universal rule. This is why everyone hates the monk, why the vanilla pre-glaivelock warlock isn't so hot, and so on. Just being able to stay alive to carry home all your buddy's corpses when they die because you can't back them up isn't a very impressive ability.

Verses just taking more levels of Duskblade, you're giving up vital Duskblade features (both thematically and mechanically) and essential spellcasting progression for... what? Small strength bonuses at the cost of dexterity? Minor damage reduction? A handful of other defenses? Aside from the flavor bits, fortification is the only remotely worthwhile thing anywhere in the class, and it's not worth giving up nearly all your offensive capabilities to get it.

And it costs you money to advance every level, which will put you a bit behind WBL... and for all that, it has a capstone that generally makes you even weaker.

There are worse ones out there, though. I don't know why the GSA gets so much attention. It's just the typical awful PRC; most splatbooks contain quite a few of them.

[AstralFire]

I personally always optimize more for defense over offense. Min-maxing doesn't bother people as much if it's defensive, at least unless they want to try and kill you. :D So in a practical sense, as long as I'm not playing with other optimizers, defensive is the way to build.

That said, I would never play a Green Star Adept. Casters are an awful way to start for building up to be "megadefensemonster."

Re: Dragon Disciple, while I agree it works -best- for Barbarian, I don't think it was really -meant- for them. And personally, losing 4 AB, 1 d12 HD, lots of DR (including the Bard or Sorc level, 3 if Duskblade) to gain +4 Strength and +2 Con and a crappy breath weapon over the regular Barb isn't worth it.

[Gorbash]

I agree, but it's kinda cool, and it's even worse for casters who lose all spellcasting, so while it sucks for both casters and melee oriented, it sucks less for melee oriented classes.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I personally always optimize more for defense over offense. Min-maxing doesn't bother people as much if it's defensive, at least unless they want to try and kill you. :D So in a practical sense, as long as I'm not playing with other optimizers, defensive is the way to build.

That said, I would never play a Green Star Adept. Casters are an awful way to start for building up to be "megadefensemonster."You know, you're right. That's why no one objects to the completely indestructible bard/monk/various templates and PrCs in one of my games. That, and she's made of awesome roleplaying and win.

[UglyPanda]

I personally believe that the Green Starmetal Addict is one of the worst prestige classes ever written.

My thoughts and the thoughts of others on the subject can be found in this thread: Most useless PRC? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68057)

[AstralFire]

You know, you're right. That's why no one objects to the completely indestructible bard/monk/various templates and PrCs in one of my games. That, and she's made of awesome roleplaying and win.

Bards make the best roleplaying. Especially when they're doing things no one expects like being awesomely badass exalted transgender CG Changelings.

*sniff* I will miss you Eilonwy. If only I could have remained a PC.

[Nerd-o-rama]

The girl in question is an awesomely badass CG Exalted half-nymph aasimar with a Charisma score usually reserved for demigods. What a coincidence.

[AstralFire]

The girl in question is an awesomely badass CG Exalted half-nymph aasimar with a Charisma score usually reserved for demigods. What a coincidence.

Ah, but mine is transgender and refuses to disguise self! (Making her this freaky grey androgyn). And managed to kill someone with Ghost Sound.

(Well, when we were all level 3 and had an intraparty dispute with a greedy Orc Fighter that could have one-shotted me and the rest of us in one turn each. We were fugitives from a corrupt government, so she used it to call the guards, screaming that Rok the Orc was stealing from innocent people.)

[Nerd-o-rama]

Oh, we've got a Changeling with gender issues too, but she's a Rogue/Swashbuckler. Anyway, I think we've derailed this topic enough.

Back to the topic: Green Star Adept sucks. If you want a Duskblade PrC, try Enlightened Fist (meh) or Changeling Recaster (awesome, but somewhat limiting for reasons that should be obvious).

[lord_khaine]

Thurbane, i think you should give GSA a try, though i dont think maxing it out will be worth it, since losing Con sucks for someone who wants to be in the fronline.

[Person_Man]

Defensive classes suck; this is almost a universal rule.

I disagree somewhat. I'd say that most defensive classes are just much harder to optimize, and that the monk sucks because he has overlapping defensive abilities, few utility powers, and little useful offense beyond Stunning Fist.

But consider the Paladin, Scout, Knight, Crusader, Hellreaver, Deepwarden, etc. Each is essentially a defensive class, but with some offensive ability built into it, and each is playable when used correctly.

I'd also say that defense (especially AC and SR) is also much more potent at low levels. At higher levels, nothing can really compare with a full caster. But that's not the fault of the class, that's a 3.5 game design issue.

[Aquillion]

But consider the Paladin, Scout, Knight, Crusader, Hellreaver, Deepwarden, etc. Each is essentially a defensive class, but with some offensive ability built into it, and each is playable when used correctly.Ah. I meant purely defensive classes (as in, purely focused on keeping themselves alive, and nothing else; things like Knight's Challenge are control, not defensive to me.)

A character who can do nothing (effectively) but keep themselves alive and occupy one square in battle sucks. You could do the same thing with a wall of stone or a large barrel filled with lead.

[Frosty]

Ah, but mine is transgender and refuses to disguise self! (Making her this freaky grey androgyn). And managed to kill someone with Ghost Sound.

(Well, when we were all level 3 and had an intraparty dispute with a greedy Orc Fighter that could have one-shotted me and the rest of us in one turn each. We were fugitives from a corrupt government, so she used it to call the guards, screaming that Rok the Orc was stealing from innocent people.)

I'm still not sure that shapeshifters have a default gender. Hmm...Dopplegangers for same-sex marriage!

[Nerd-o-rama]

I've read up on this (in Races of Eberron). Changelings, unlike true doppelgangers, are born with a particular sex (and, presumably, gender), but they can alter their physical sex at will, with all that implies. And before you ask, I'm pretty sure pregnant females lose the ability to change out of a female form, but I don't remember exactly.

Doppelgangers, however, are sexless and genderless, although I'm not 100% where I read that.

v Right. That's what I thought. v

[kamikasei]

I've read up on this (in Races of Eberron). Changelings, unlike true doppelgangers, are born with a particular sex (and, presumably, gender), but they can alter their physical sex at will, with all that implies. And before you ask, I'm pretty sure pregnant females lose the ability to change out of a female form, but I don't remember exactly.

It states in RoE that a pregnant Changeling can't change gender for the duration of the pregnancy, but it otherwise seems to imply that you can be born male, change to female, and mother a child, or vice versa.

[Frosty]

but they can alter their physical sex at will, with all that implies.

With all that implies eh? Ewww on self-impregnation...

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yeah, pretty sure that's genetically impossible, let alone the Tumble checks that'd be

Can we please go back to the topic now?

Okay, I just realized how this could be done without the aforementioned Tumble checks, but seriously can we go back to the topic now?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

It states in RoE that a pregnant Changeling can't change gender for the duration of the pregnancy, but it otherwise seems to imply that you can be born male, change to female, and mother a child, or vice versa.BoEF does make a ruling on this, where if you Polymorph into a female and become pregnant, then change out, you lose the baby and have to save v. con drain.

On topic, the Green Spice Addict is useless. Almost any other Gish PRC is better, and has better flavor. If you want to be a construct, just take Renegade Mastermaker. Don't go with something which has as many downsides as the GSA.

[Frosty]

BoEF does make a ruling on this, where if you Polymorph into a female and become pregnant, then change out, you lose the baby and have to save v. con drain.

On topic, the Green Spice Addict is useless. Almost any other Gish PRC is better, and has better flavor. If you want to be a construct, just take Renegade Mastermaker. Don't go with something which has as many downsides as the GSA.

But the BoEF is 3rd party material not necessarily supported by WoTC. I wonder if WoTC has a ruling about getting in and out of Wildshape when pregnant

[Gorbash]

BoEF is garbage. Not to mention that Wizards revoked their D20 liscence. A testament to just how stupid that book is.