HB2, Forgive Me... [Creature]

[arguskos]

Hold on now... if you've seen Hellboy 2, then you'll understand why I wanted to stat these beasts out. Note that I'm just presenting a frame, from which I can modify to my hearts content.

Also, the fluff will change. Fear not.

With all that said, I present to you, The Golden Army!

Golden Warrior
Huge Construct
HD 10d10+40 (90)
Speed 30 ft
Init: +2 Dex
AC 220 (10, +10 armor, +2 Dex, -2 Size); touch 10; flat-footed 18
BAB +7; Grp +25
Attack Mwk bastard sword +16 (3d8+10, 19-20/x2); or slam +15 (3d6+10)
Full-Attack Mwk bastard sword +16 (3d8+10, 19-20/x2); or slam +15 (3d6+10)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks None
Special Qualities Loyalty, Regrowth
Saves Fort +3 Ref +5 Will +2
Abilities Str 30, Dex 14, Con -, Int -, Wis 8, Cha 2
Skills None
Feats Power Attack(b)
Environment Where commanded to go.
Organization The Golden Army (4900)
Challenge Rating 8-ish?
Treasure None
Alignment True Neutral
Advancement None
Level Adjustment N/A

Blahblahblahfluffhereblahblah.

Loyalty (Su): The Golden Warriors obey only the orders of a rightful wearer of the Golden Crown. If there is no bearer, the Golden Warriors take no actions, not even in self-defense, trusting to their Regrowth ability to recover if destroyed.
Regrowth (Ex): If destroyed, a Golden Warrior's body will restore itself to full fighting capacity in one round. This ability cannot be suppressed by any known method, and is non-voluntary (that is, a Golden Warrior cannot choose to not regrow, nor can they trigger the ability on their own).


Ok, so there you have it. Rip-offs aside, is this about right for a critter like the Golden Army? I love the idea of rebuilding clockwork soldiers, and I want to know if this is a good place to start modifying it to my tastes.

Thanks, and seriously, please look past the steal from HB2. :smallbiggrin:

-argus

[Debihuman]

Consider yourself forgiven. Someone was bound to do this.

I'm not fond of calling it "regrow" since they don't really grow but re-form when they are destroyed. There has to be a better designation than that.


This gives away a little of their background but I think it makes sense. I hope you don't mind me messing in your sandbox.

Loyalty (Su): The Golden Warriors obey only the orders of a rightful wearer of the Golden Crown. If there is no bearer, the Golden Warriors take no actions, not even in self-defense, relying to their clockwork ability to recover if destroyed.

[Since they haven't an intelligence to trust, it makes sense for them to rely -- it's a self-preservation instinct not a choice].

Like Clockwork (Ex): The warriors of the Golden Army were build built with goblin precision. One round after it is destroyed, a warrior of the Golden Army rises from its debris completely restored, immaculate, in full-fighting capacity and with full hit points. The ability cannot be surpressed by any known method and is involuntary. A golden warrior can neither trigger nor cause the spontaneous restoration.


There is much speculation that phoenix feathers were used in their construction.

Debby

[arguskos]

Consider yourself forgiven. Someone was bound to do this.

I'm not fond of calling it "regrow" since they don't really grow but re-form when they are destroyed. There has to be a better designation than that.


This gives away a little of their background but I think it makes sense. I hope you don't mind me messing in your sandbox.
A). Thanks, I figured I'd throw in first I guess. It's just too much fun to ignore!

B). I couldn't think of much better myself, though I do like naming it Like Clockwork, that's an EXCELLENT pun, and a fitting name for the ability.

C). Hey, we're in a playground! Sharing the sandbox is what we do. :smallwink:


There is much speculation that phoenix feathers were used in their construction.
I don't much enjoy the FF series, but this is too funny NOT to give props for. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks for the suggestions. Now, I guess the next question is this: how should the damned things be destroyed? The way I worded the regen power, it's pretty much unstoppable (ie. even antimatter, disintegration, or total molecular disjoinment will not stop these things). Is that too powerful, or should that remain the way it was meant to be (ie. Tarrasque-like in spirit, an unstoppable menace that should be trapped/disabled, not truly destroyed)?

-argus

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I don't much enjoy the FF series, but this is too funny NOT to give props for. :smallbiggrin:

*Nitpick*

Phoenix feathers being restorative doesn't come from Final Fantasy...it comes from the legend of the Phoenix itself...the whole "rises from the ashes" thing. FF just thought it would be cool to use it as restorative item.

*/Nitpick*


Thanks for the suggestions. Now, I guess the next question is this: how should the damned things be destroyed? The way I worded the regen power, it's pretty much unstoppable (ie. even antimatter, disintegration, or total molecular disjoinment will not stop these things). Is that too powerful, or should that remain the way it was meant to be (ie. Tarrasque-like in spirit, an unstoppable menace that should be trapped/disabled, not truly destroyed)?

-argus

In my opinion, antimatter, disintegration, molecular disjoinment, etc. SHOULD destroy them...in the movie they were just subject to physical force. I find it hard to believe clockwork, however carefully wrought, can reform after being melted down by fire or acid, turned to dust, or wished off the planet. Normal concussive or physical force should do nothing to them, but that's about it. I'd rule that a lethal amount of fire or acid damage, or anything that removes the body completely, should kill them.

[AstralFire]

What Djinn said. No CR 8 Construct lacking SR should be immune to death by Disintegrate. They were indestructible by the terms of the movie, just like some real-life Olympian being the strongest man on the Earth doesn't mean he's stronger than Spiderman.

[DracoDei]

I suspect you should specify maiming is also repaired. I didn't really look at the stat-block, but CR 8 MIGHT work if the PCs just want to SURVIVE the encounter... anything requiring neutralizing them directly (instead of dealing with the crown wearer on way or another), then you are looking at AT LEAST the level necessary to cast two Plane Shifts (in case they make a save or two) or you haven't given them enough immunities to match the movies.


Edit:
Fire at least should be useless for perminantly destroying them or at least HEAVILY resisted... movie spoiler follows remember that they had a walking flamethrower with them when they fought them, and they still considered it an unwinnable fight... Hellboy is immune, and could have smashed a path for Abe and the elf to get to safe distance, and the German's mode of escape should be readily obvious.

Basically if you want to keep the threat level correct for the movie they have to be able to recover from any military weapon in the real world (FAE's, Napalm, incidiary bombs, sabot rounds etc) short of a nuke, and maybe even that.

[AgentPaper]

Give them spell resistance and resistance to fire and acid, but also make it so fire and acid do permanent damage to them. If they re-form, they will still have any acid and/or fire damage dealt. If they have more acid and/or fire damage than they have life, they're down for good. Being hit by disintegration or an orb of annihilation or something similar also puts them down for good.

[arguskos]

Hmm. So, if I understand correctly, the idea is that fire/acid should neutralize these things? Cause, that really undermines the idea of making an actually difficult to destroy critter. I'm open to esoteric/disintegration/total obliteration methods, but I'm not seeing how fire/acid should perma-kill something that can rebuild itself. Remember, these things are magically enchanted to withstand all sorts of punishment, so fire/acid (the most likely subjects for destroying something made of metal) would probably be warded against.

Here's my revised ability (thanking Debi for the name):


Like Clockwork (Su): The warriors of the Golden Army were build built with goblin precision. One round after it is destroyed, a warrior of the Golden Army rises from its debris completely restored, immaculate, in full-fighting capacity and with full hit points. The ability cannot be suppressed by any known method (including an Antimagic Field, making this an exception to the rule that Supernatural abilities are suppressed in an AMF) and is involuntary. A golden warrior can neither trigger nor cause the spontaneous restoration. Like Clockwork will also reattach maimed limbs, reconstruct melted parts, etc as needed to reform the construct. However, if the Golden Soldier is reduced to a pile of molten metal (as from lava immersion/massive amounts of acid damage), then it takes 3 rounds to reform completely.

Like Clockwork will not function if the Golden Soldier is totally eliminated, as with a disintegration effect, however it will work in any other circumstance.

Special Qualities: Like Clockwork, Loyalty, SR 25, Fire, Acid Resist 20
CR: 12

Does this look more on the "indestructible, but technically kill-able with lots of effort" scale?

-argus

EDIT: To the Phoenix nitpick, I'm aware of the legend. However, I've had to sit through SO MANY FF fanboys telling me all about it, that whenever someone even mentions "phoenix" anything, I can't help but hear phoenix down. So, no offense to you Debi, but it was my knee-jerk reaction. :smallfrown: I R SMRT sometimes. >_<

[Debihuman]

First, you're welcome. I thought the whole clockwork motiff worked well.

Second, rather than debating why disintegrate should kept them from reforming, you need to look passed any individual way to obliterate them.

One way is a simple permanent contingency spell worked into their parts. Whenever they get busted up, disintegrated, melted in acid, burnt, smashed, crushed or nuked, it simply activates. Again, let's hear it for good old goblin ingenuity. They get destroyed and contingency bring 'em right back, over and over. It's like a reset button. It doesn't matter if there is nothing left.

Third, I was actually thinking of a Phoenix rising from the ashes from legend not Final Fantasy. Hence why they can be destroyed and come back from nothing!

The way to permanently destroy them is either to destroy the crown which controls them. You could cast wish or miracle to remove the contigency spell that created them. You can also stop them from attacking by surrendering.

Why does nobody ever do the easiest thing? If you surrender, they stop! Well, technically you surrender to the owner of the crown but still. If he (or she) accepts your surrender they should stop. It doesn't mean that they can't start again later or for a different reason. In D&D nothing is ever really permanent now is it? Not even death.

Debby

[arguskos]

Hmm... I totally blanked on the idea of a Contingency effect to trigger Like Clockwork. Wow... and here I am, the Craft Contingent Spell freak. However, I'd totally keep the Fire/Acid resist, and the SR. They are highly useful abilities in any case, and help drive home the idea of indestructibility.

As for the Phoenix thingy, yeah, I explained in the post above yours. Sorry about that, first reaction sorta thing. (GAH, my friends play FF WAAAAAAAY too much... I don't even LIKE the damn games!! </rant>)

Lastly, since they're constructs, wouldn't your surrender not matter unless the Crown's wearer heard you, and gave the command to stop? Hmm... that'd be an interesting situation....

-argus

[DracoDei]

Ok, just thought I should bring up one of the traditional methods of defeating unkillable enemies, so that you can decide on how to handle it. Personally I feel this really SHOULD work...) really I think this one SHOULD work in this case since it requires a lot of work and guts (and having an entire village worth of assistants, including at least some with decent hitpoints, to back up the combat worthy forces doesn't hurt either). This gets exponentially harder the more of them their are. Don't expect this to happen with more than one at a time in most cases.

Assumptions: Going by the movie sending peices flying off of these in combat is a likelyhood, and more-so if you are really trying. The peices are mobile but have much lower strength scores than the whole and probably reduced BAB and can be held at bay by physical barriers. The goal of peices is to reassemble, and they will only fight if that is productive to that goal.

Summary: Cut into peices, put each peice in a seperate box, clamp the sword inside its box by the handle so it can't cut its way out.


1.) Combatants render into peices, Try to fling the peices as widely as possible(especially BEFORE it counts as "destroyed". Particular emphasis on disarming, or smashing up/cutting off the limb wielding the sword. Non-combatants stay as close as possible in pairs. Each pair is carrying/draging one oaken chest or perhaps barrel (or preferably iron, stone coffers would be a toss-up), Mithrel if this is a really professional operation). One or two chests have a clamp welded/rivited to the inside (some recon is helpful in selecting/designing this clamp). A second wave with bags of sand might help too...

2.) Web or Entangle on half (or more if you have multiple castings availible) of the peices (NOT including the sword). Note that neither of these allows SR and even peices that make their saves will be slowed down. Big burly person (not necessarily a combat trained individual) grabs the sword and wrestles it into the clamp while someone tightens it down... Apply Sovereign Glue if you have it. Meanwhile combatants continue to reduce sizes of the largest peices. Sufficiently small peices are grabbed by non-combatants (two to each peice at least). Size (and possibly strength) bonuses should make it actually possible to maintain the grapples long enough to get them into a chest most of the time (a bunch of Tangle-foot bags wouldn't hurt either)...

3.) Repeat process for peices that escape slowing effects, or the effects run out on. Perhaps dump sand into chests before closing them, or perhaps through a hole in the top... pack TIGHTLY... with no extra space inside, the only way to move would involve bursting the chest by static pressure (Translation +10 or more to the DC).

5.) Entomb peices as widely as possible appart, distance will be determined by how long you think the chests will survive. Have 2 people watching each chest at all times, and back-up restraints ready. Containment sites can be as simple as holes in hard stone that the chests are lowered into. Stone Shape would be nice, especially for the first layer of sealing (so it is form fitting to the chest). Failing that, the heaviest stone plugs you can manage will do, PERHAPS with a few feet of sand under them. Depending on the society:

A.) Use "Stone Shape" or get a mason who makes the really good secret doors to disguise the top of the hole (and nobody should be told the exact location of each containment site who doesn't need to know... only the individuals assigned to that specific peice, and any auxillery casters or crafts people, and even those shouldn't be told what is in the chest).

B.) Mark the site with warnings engraved into the rock, perhaps post a gaurd or at least have someone check the site on a regular basis.

[arguskos]

...wow. That's a pretty involved method of neutralizing these things. Also, I totally would let that one fly, if the players and their army of helpers can do it quick enough.

Only thing is, how to do it against lots of them at once.

-argus

[DracoDei]

As I said, it gets much more difficult with even 2 of them as opposed to one (especially if parts are interchangable???),

One possible method:
A front line with a way of driving back the ones still functional from the peices/reliably immobilizing them in a way that still allows access to the peices, a few ranks back you have another group to cut the peices up smaller, and maybe grab swords, behind that you have the guys with the chests. This is much more difficult.

This brings up a possible flaw in the "Organization" line, since once activated they don't HAVE to stay in one massive hoard, and indeed, and many generals would often detach small units for specific jobs. The problem is they are mindless... they were stated to be without pity etc, but given the quality of super-soldier we are talking about I would think they would be made to be able to do more than follow simple instructions. For one thing it reduces the possibility of an archer killing the crown wearer. Alternatively you MIGHT allow designation of surrogates by the crown wearer, with limitation on how long or how broadly that assigned command applies. Still creates the same problem of killing the commander, but it a less perminant setback.

[Yakk]

A Golden Warrior is made out of two parts.

First, it is made out of nearly indestructible clockwork components. These components can, however, be disassembled.

Second, it is made out of a magical empowering force, which animates and controls the components.

Heavy damage to a Golden Warrior generally causes it to fall into pieces. The empowering spirit can, however, cause the pieces to come back together.

...

Mechanics wise, we want a monster that, when damaged, gets weaker, as parts fall off.

Damaging parts should be nearly impossible.

The two practical attacks would be "taking it apart and preventing the parts from coming together", and "attacking the animating spirit".

...

I'd stat out the animating spirit, and give it powers. These can include animating the actual Golden Warrior, repairing it by having pieces come back together, etc.

The Golden Warrior itself would then have text about how it gets less effective, and parts fall off, as you do heavy damage to it.

[arguskos]

Hmm. Much of the issues with the Golden Army being mindless can be dealt with by saying the crown can command them over large distances, and deal with them independently. That way, the Army can be divided into smaller groups, such as to stop advancing forces that don't require the full 4900.

As for your idea Yakk, that's an interesting way of thinking about it. However, there's little point to stating out the animating spirit (since it's just like the one in a golem). I do like the idea of specifying that as the battle wears on, the Golden Soldier falls to bits. Maybe like so:


Pieces and Parts(Ex): As a Golden Soldier loses hit points in battle, they begin to lose parts. When reduced to 3/4 hp, a Golden Soldier suffers a -5 ft reduction to movement, a -2 penalty to AC, and a -2 penalty to attacks. When reduced to 1/2 hp, these penalties increase to -10, -4, and -4 respectively. When at 1/4 max hp, the penalties are -15, -6, and -6.

Does that look decent?

-argus