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lillobaggins
2008-07-30, 04:14 PM
I am trying to put together a campaign for 4e, but the more I read and re-read the PHB and DMG, the more I think I am going to need a lot of stuff that I currently don't own.

I would like combat to be entertaining and fun, which means that I would like it to be as fast paced as possible, without having to spend a lot of time book-keeping the large amounts of ongoing effects and saves bound to come up in a combat. I was wondering: what tools are you using (as a DM or player) for your 4e sessions?

So far, this is what I am planning to use (which, quite frankly, is probably not enough)

- Power cards. I would consider them a must. (I downloaded a nice collection, but I am not home so I can't look up from where)

- Miniatures. Sadly, I have none, but I am pretty sure I can find some... or maybe a virtual tabletop?

- Battle grid: What do you use? I used to use a chessboard (that's what was available at the time), but that is pretty limited in size and hardly customizable.

What do you use? What did you find works better for you?

Aron Times
2008-07-30, 04:17 PM
http://rptools.net/

Enjoy.

CarpeGuitarrem
2008-07-30, 04:24 PM
In terms of battlegrid and miniatures...it comes down to aesthetics.

You can make a perfectly good battlegrid by buying Graph paper and filling it with 2x2 or 3x3 squares, whichever size you think is best. Then, just fold a narrow piece of card or paper in half, and you have a blank stand-up miniature, ready to be illustrated or labeled however you want.

But that's only if you don't mind pencil-and-paper combat. (Pun not intended...or was it?)

Gralamin
2008-07-30, 04:31 PM
I am trying to put together a campaign for 4e, but the more I read and re-read the PHB and DMG, the more I think I am going to need a lot of stuff that I currently don't own.

I would like combat to be entertaining and fun, which means that I would like it to be as fast paced as possible, without having to spend a lot of time book-keeping the large amounts of ongoing effects and saves bound to come up in a combat. I was wondering: what tools are you using (as a DM or player) for your 4e sessions?
Addressing the Ongoing effects and saves, they are pretty easy to manage. Photocopy out page 277 and keep that out. Get a pad of paper for managing monsters. Copy stat-blocks for each monster your using, and leave a room for conditions in each block (If your using multiple of the same, to the right of the stablock or something put X #2, HP: ____; Bloodied: ____; Conditions:_________.). Bring a red pen. Whenever a status effect is applied that requires a save, write in red. When you glance at your notes you should notice it and remember to save at the end of the turn. (If theirs special notes on the save, write them down as well).
You could also do this with a white board. Have sheets of paper with stats, or a sticky noted MM, and write HP, Bloodied, and Conditions on it. Buy a red pen for conditions which require a saving throw.



So far, this is what I am planning to use (which, quite frankly, is probably not enough)

- Power cards. I would consider them a must. (I downloaded a nice collection, but I am not home so I can't look up from where)
Power cards are nice. A few of my friends use them, while I have it managed on my laptop effectively.


- Miniatures. Sadly, I have none, but I am pretty sure I can find some... or maybe a virtual tabletop?
Virtual Tabletop can work if your working over the net. One thing my group has been thinking of is using a virtual tabletop on my laptop, connecting it to a bigscreen TV, and broadcasting it there, with each player just indicating where they move.

You can substitute dice for miniatures or just about anything you can think of. As long as you can tell them apart. For example, you might use pennies for minions (which you don't have to manage), D6's for one type of enemy (D6 turned to the number the creature is, eg guy 1 has a d6 show 1), d8's for another... etc.


- Battle grid: What do you use? I used to use a chessboard (that's what was available at the time), but that is pretty limited in size and hardly customizable.
I currently use a leather map, which we place a large plastic sheet on top of (In order to protect the map).


What do you use? What did you find works better for you?

I have a warning about laptops. They can easily distract from the game. Only mature players who are using it for managing there characters should use it, otherwise only the DM should be allowed to bring one if they have it (And if it turns out to distract them, they can't bring it anymore).

Tadanori Oyama
2008-07-30, 04:41 PM
Tokens.

I use felt markers, the kind of things you stick under furniture so it doesn't move. I've colored them with markers so they look different from one another. If you use Minutures from the minis game they fit perfectly under them. You can find "real" products at Cons and what not but I like the ones I made.

You'll want one set to mark things as bloodied, one set for each class with markers (fighters need three or four at the least), a few that denote combat advantage (if a monster runs or an effect grants CA to the party).

Also, if an effect will come up alot (from powers) you should have some sort of marker for it.

This is a good thing to entrust to the players. For example, I have a Ranger and I love Hunter's Quarry. I have this little coin I got once that's green and has an arrow on it. When I declare my quarry, I put the coin under it. The warlock in one of my groups has little plastic skulls he puts by the minis of things he's cursed. Props are great to keep players interested.


As for the field: go to a Costco or whatever store you have around where you are and look for a big white board. I found one for like twenty-five bucks. It had dots on it that form sqaures that're just the side I need for the minis, it came with six colors of marker (dry erase), and a bunch of little magnet markers. Find something similar.

Lay it out (table top, floor, whatever, if you use the magnets you could hang the thing upside down or lean it against the wall and it'll still work perfectly) and you can draw whatever you need when you need it. If you like to work ahead of time you can throw the map onto the table, hold it down at the corners (more magnets or tape work fine) and go to work.

Additional little magnet marks can be found and bought for five dollars or so (I found this pack of thirty small magnets in six colors in line at a Borders, I use them all the time).

EndlessWrath
2008-07-30, 04:44 PM
tip for DMing...it doesn't have to be complicated.

Miniatures: Sure I have some...but I don't spend a ton of money on it (maybe a box every 2 months, since I play dnd minis...
other things you can use
-Coins
-Pieces of paper
-legos
-Gems
-Micro Machines (a little old...but if ya got some go ahead and use them)...
-Hero scape (these saved my butt plenty of times)

Battle Grid: D&D's DMG 3.5 had a battlegrid that was free. I use that... also battlegrids are relatively cheap. (have never seen one laminated over $5)...

I would suggest this. Get posterboard size material. Make 1 inch squares. large graph. Then laminate it. Then get 4 colored, washable markers. Easy, you can customize the board with markers..then erase it using water and paper towels.

As for the quick battle: 4e Streamlined everything. which is why you don't have to roll saves anymore...you don't have to roll a bunch of things... Just make quick notes of important stats... you don't need all the crazy stuff. just the basics...maybe a few powers and such... for big guys make them a little more detailed. Have people decide their turns before its their turn... so you only have to watch them roll.

that's all I got for now.
-Wrath

RTGoodman
2008-07-30, 08:09 PM
Power Cards: A great idea, especially if you make sure each player keeps up with his own "deck" and "hand." If you've got 'em already, just print 'em out (maybe on cardstock or some other heavy-ish paper, and then just put them in card protectors like you would for Magic cards. I think you can get 100 protectors and a box (Dragon Shield brand, I think) for $7 or so. Also, if there are others you'd like that you don't have, you can probably use the Magic Set Editor (Google it) to make 'em.

Grid/Map Building in 5 Easy Steps:
1. Go to your local school/office supply store and buy a sheet of poster paper that already has 1-inch or 1/2-inch "ghost lines" on it.
2. Use a Sharpie or other permanent marker to make a 1-inch grid.
3. Take the grid to Staples/Office Depot or wherever and have them laminate it. It shouldn't cost more than a dollar or two.
4. Buy some water-soluble markers.
5. Congrats - you've now got a battle mat that you can draw terrain and such on.

Suggestions for Miniatures:
-You can get cheap ones online sometimes. Maybe try eBay or somewhere.
-Use coins, beads, dice, Legos, army men, or other little plastic toys. Just make sure they're the right size (i.e., 1 square = 5 ft. = 1 Medium creature).
-Cut some cardstock into 1" x 3" pieces. Fold it in half and stand it up. Draw a character.

Suggestions for Condition Markers:
-Do what Gralamin suggested.
-Go to a craft store or Wal-Mart or somewhere and pick up some of those little glass craft beads that people sometimes put in fish tanks. If they have a barrel, just pick one color for each condition (red=bloodied; green=stunned; purple=marked; etc.) and buy a handful for each condition (and more for the more common conditions). Make people keep those around their miniatures or in plain sight at their edge of the mat, and keep them near each enemy so players can tell about each.

Ryshan Ynrith
2008-07-30, 09:03 PM
My group has always used colored lego 1x1 pieces for a medium-sized character, allowing use of the massive lego boards as a grid. Cheap (we have tons of legos), easy, and the pieces will stay put even if the table gets flipped (which hasn't happened...yet.)

Myatar_Panwar
2008-07-30, 09:13 PM
For like 20 bucks you can buy a dry erase squared board and some dry erase markers which will last forever (well not the markers but you get the idea).

I mean, I guess you can photocopy and stuff using the stuff in the back of the dmg, but that takes alot of time every session or may even cost more in the end with all this paper you are buying.

As for mini's, I got lucky and found a carp-load of old 80's D&D minis at a garage sale (at least 10 small boxes worth for like 5 bucks :smallbiggrin:) and just use those. But if you don't mind dishing out a little cash, but up some of those random WotC mini boxes. Don't worry about accuracy. Example: I often use a standing fungus mini when I need an animal. As long as you tell the players what they are, they shouldent care. May even get a laugh or two.

But tokens could work too.

lillobaggins
2008-07-30, 09:40 PM
I see, thank you for all the suggestions.

I think I will go and raid my local wal-mart or target for some colored tokens and a dry erase whiteboard. I think I saw one last time I went there, but I didn't pick it up... the laziness :\

Beside that, are you guys having problem with the combat at all? I know it is streamlined, but I have basically never used miniatures and just described the setting, so it is something new for me. Oh well, I will give it a shot and see what it happens... once I find some players around here, grrr :\

@Joseph Silver
I didn't know they made the Character tool for 4e. That is good news indeed!

[EDIT] Nevermind. Apparently I got my hopes high for no real reason. Treacherous screenshot :smallannoyed:

Pirate_King
2008-07-30, 09:58 PM
I use different colored dice for minis, makes it very easy to keep track of which one is more damaged. kind of a shame that the DMG for 4e didn't have a battlegrid.

RTGoodman
2008-07-30, 10:11 PM
I use different colored dice for minis, makes it very easy to keep track of which one is more damaged. kind of a shame that the DMG for 4e didn't have a battlegrid.

I think it has a grid in the back, but it's on the back of a page that has actual information (so you can't just rip it out).

The 3.5 one was a separate poster thingy, but one bad thing about it was that people could just rip them out in the store (which is what happened to at least 3 people in my normal group - we have several copies of the DMG and only 1 actual WotC-printed mat).

Actually, if you're willing to spend money, see if you can find a Crystal Caste double-sided mat online. They're really cool and come in various sizes, and occasionally you can find 'em with "factory errors" that are sold dirt-cheap. One friend of mine did this and the only "imperfection" was that about a half-inch of line on ONE SQUARE was missing.

Charity
2008-07-31, 02:31 AM
I use these
http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/f2/dd/9d0e_1.JPG for marking conditions, they are dirt cheep and sit under the figures just fine. If you want you can buy tokens that interlock as they stack for a few beans more.
If you want you can use them for miniatures by sticking pictures to them.
I have seen plenty of those cut out and fold into a triangle miniature sheets over on Enworld like the ones you used to get free with MERP.

As for maps, those big flipcharts that are used for presentations are pretty good, and cheep, and pre-preparable, and come with 25mm squares.

SCPRedMage
2008-07-31, 03:48 AM
http://paizo.com/store/gameAids/gamingMats/steelSqwire/v5748btpy83yx

This is one of the best gaming mats. EVER. And it only costs $12.99.

Dry erase, wet erase, permanent marker, doesn't matter; this will take it, and still be easy to erase. Yes, even with permanent marker; just draw over it with a wet or dry erase marker, then the permanent marker will come right off.

Asmodeus
2008-07-31, 11:35 AM
Online

MapTool, from RPTools.net is awesome for a virtual tabletop, dice, chat system, fog of war, and mapping. They also offer TokenTool, and InitTool, which are useful.
Find a good repository of fantasy images and make character and mosnter tokens with TokenTool, import them into MapTool, and game on.
Use a nice forum system for any between game details. Oots forums can do this, or TheTangledWeb.net (Full disclosure: I admin for TTW, so I'm biased towards it)

For reference, 3.5 has d20srd.org, and 4e has the wizard's Compendium.

Offline

Head to your local Office Depot, or similar store. Find the section where they keep whiteboards, portable Easels, and the like. They have huge pads of 1-inch grid paper. Lay one down on your table, and you have an instant disposable battle grid. This is especially good if you have a location that you are going to be revisiting several times. If you just use a dry-erase board, you'll be drawing, erasing, and redrawing the location over and over. Be careful about bleed-through from top page to the page under it.

Take one of those pages, and have it laminated for a reusable grid. Combine with Dry-Erase markers for best effect. Approx Total: $25.00

Head to your local dollar store and buy a pack of 60 plastic Army men for $0.50. use these as minions, NPCs, monster swarms, one-time creatures etc.
Buy a pack of real Miniatures online for your players, and major reoccuring villains or NPCs. Typically a dollar each. Have the PCs pay for their own, or supply their own.

Laptop with a wireless connection to access the two reference sites I mentioned earlier. Be careful about letting this become a distraction, especially if you let your players bring their own. They can easily pop open solitaire and start paying more attention to that than the game. Put a PDF copy of your books and other goodies here. You can lend your hard copy to a player if needed, and you still have your laptop copy.

If you have a local college, see if they have open rooms on weekends. Play there and get free use of a whiteboard for tracking initiative, or other book keeping.

Duke of URL
2008-07-31, 11:48 AM
I would like combat to be entertaining and fun, which means that I would like it to be as fast paced as possible, without having to spend a lot of time book-keeping the large amounts of ongoing effects and saves bound to come up in a combat.

While it might wind up looking too "MtG" for some folks' taste, since you're already going with power cards, why not make additional status effect cards? Make thema nice, lurid color and lay the status effect(s) down in front of the player (or monster!) affected -- it'll be easy to remember who's affected with what.

I'd suggest also keeping a blank card or two for each player/monster in a plastic sleeve -- you can record max/current HP, healing surges, etc., with a dry-erase pen, and just make the changes on the fly. (I hate erasing on paper, personally.)

As for a grid, the simplest method is to get a dry-erase board, mark a 1" grid with permanent ink lines (some suggest etching the lines into the board before using the permanent marker), and then you can draw in terrain, etc. with dry-erase pens (or even player/monster locations if you don;t have miniatures or tokens).

Colmarr
2008-07-31, 11:51 PM
Power cards. I would consider them a must. (I downloaded a nice collection, but I am not home so I can't look up from where)

Don't overestimate the need for power cards.

When preparing my 4e character (a human cleric), I fired up Microsoft Word and recreated the 4e power block as a table (with appropriate colours, rows and that little star symbol).

I then created a two-column page and copy-typed each of the powers my character had onto the page, replacing all the references to Str and Ref and [W] etc with the character's actual numbers (so 2[W] + Str became 2d10+4).

It took approximately an hour, but I now have a complete character that does all my working for me on a total of only three pages (two of which are the official D&D character sheets). As the characters increases in level, I'll need to throw in an extra page for the extra powers, but I doubt I'll ever need a fifth page.

And each time the character levels, I can open the sheet again on the computer and update the numbers. No need to prepare and print new cards.

Because I store the sheets in a plastic sleeve, it's easy to track power usage. When a power is used, I cross it off with a whiteboard marker. When it refreshes, I wipe the marker away.

Jarlax
2008-08-01, 12:41 AM
FEAR MY DRINK BOTTLE RINGS!!

i am not kidding i got this idea at gen-con OZ and if you use minis its the best way to track marks, curses, hunters quarries, bloodied and all kinds of other status effects.

get the cap rings off drinks (the plastic ring that seals the bottle cap to the bottle) in different colors and just hoop them around the bottom of your minis. a 600ml bottle of coke provides a red "bloodied" ring that perfectly fits a medium sized D&D mini.

there free, they easily stack onto minis for multiple effects and its not hard to get heaps in multiple colors (red off coke, black off pepsi, blue of sunkist, green off mountain dew, orange off fanta, etc) because if your a regular gaming group you probably go through multiple bottles each session alone.

Colmarr
2008-08-01, 12:47 AM
FEAR MY DRINK BOTTLE RINGS!!

You win. I think that's the best, no-nonsense suggestion I've ever seen for marking conditions.

EDIT: Woot! I'm no longer a pixie!

Artanis
2008-08-01, 11:05 AM
Another way to go about power cards and status cards is just to buy a pack of 3x5 cards and write the stuff down on it. It's simple, it's easy, it's cheap, and if something you don't have a card for comes up, just pull out a pen and another card. For that matter, if one gets lost, worn out, or covered in coke, just pull out a pen and another card.

Besides, printer ink is EXPENSIVE!