OOTS #579 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

New Erfworld too, for those who read it. I had a few days of being internetless, so I have a slight backlog of comics built up. (Slight.)

[Thormag]

Great comic!

It seems that Celia is not such a dumb character (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeThat) after all.

[blackspeeker]

Sometimes I feel like no one loves or cares for Belkar but me.


And now I feel like I need to go find the prequel books to understand what's about to happen

[Lira]

Hmm... some very interesting developments here.

[Nevitan]

EDIT: Hah! First post! Suckas!

do you even read the stickys and rules?
anyway great comic as always, good jokes and plot forwarding :smallbiggrin:
"airhead", gold. and also a (slight) comic reserve is tons better than none!

[Kato]

what the...? o.o Celia got me almost as well ^^'
anyway, it's a little cruel how they handle poor Belkar... *sigh* still, anyone wondering if it means something that he's getting better?

[Zephra]

what's with the bubbles as speach balloons on belkar? is he less delerious? can the mark of justice wear off? Nice comic...
and:

Sometimes I feel like no one loves or cares for Belkar but me.
I certainly don't love or care for him.... Yikes.

[Admiral_Kelly]

I am disappointed by this comic. It makes me ask 'Why am I reading OotS again?'

Sorry, but the plot devices in play here make this story too much of a cop-out. From Belkar's Mark of Justice to Roy's Body to the Oracle to Celia's stupidity (lack of basic knowledge is a form of stupidity) I'm finding this less and less enjoyable. Why can't we go back to the A plot?

Just one poster's opinion. I'm hoping things get better, so I'm still reading.

[RMS Oceanic]

Apart from validating my prediction that the thieves guild would turn up to complicate things even further, this strip raises an interesting query: can the Mark of Justice be reactivated? If Belkar is getting better, maybe it's meant to be aversion therapy, so when Belkar is healthy again, he'll learn not to do it again.

Not that he will this time, because he doesn't remember what happened.

[blackspeeker]

wondering if it means something that he's getting better?

only that things are going to get worse for everyone else?

[LiteYear]

The comic has been really good lately. I don't understand what Celia was saying about using Belkar as an alarm, though... maybe I need to go reread it. :smallbiggrin:

As far as they know, Belkar just became ill somehow and the MoJ hasn't been activated yet.

[3Power]

Giant, two of Belkar's speech balloons are missing tails.

Either that or he's a psion now. :smalltongue:

[Zephra]

[EDIT:^ I thought that was on purpose, and wondered about it--is it to set apart his delerium from his normal state of mind?]



I am disappointed by this comic. It makes me ask 'Why am I reading OotS again?'

Sorry, but the plot devices in play here make this story too much of a cop-out. From Belkar's Mark of Justice to Roy's Body to the Oracle to Celia's stupidity (lack of basic knowledge is a form of stupidity) I'm finding this less and less enjoyable. Why can't we go back to the A plot?

Just one poster's opinion. I'm hoping things get better, so I'm still reading.

Celia's character is supposed to be stupid--it's certainly deliberate. It's definitelly turning into less of a comic and more of an illustrated story, but that's not a bad thing. I remember the cliffport story ark, with Elan in jail, and Nale lose, and I thought, "this can never end! What can the main characters possibly do to get out of this situation!" and, by the end of the ark, it was resolved, plus lose plotlines tied--We just need to be patient.

[T-O-E]

Sometimes I feel like no one loves or cares for Belkar but me.


And now I feel like I need to go find the prequel books to understand what's about to happen

You won't, don't worry.
Great comic, as always.

[SteveMB]

what's with the bubbles as speach balloons on belkar? is he less delerious? can the mark of justice wear off?
It could be a temporary remission, or it could be that he's feeling better even though the illness continues to progress and he's actually getting worse.

[3Power]

Celia's character is supposed to be stupid--it's certainly deliberate. The word you're looking for there is naive. Celia is plenty intelligent, there's just a lot of things about the world she doesn't understand yet.

[Trebuchet]

No blackspeeker, you are not alone in caring about Belkar. Sure he's evil, with no redeeming characteristics except being funny, but this comic sure wouldn't be as good without him.

[Zephra]

nah, I think the comic would be fine without him.
(When I buy the books, I have to sharpie over like half of his speech baloons, so the little kids don't learn swears :) )

[otakuryoga]

sweeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!

Dun Dun DUN!!!! looks like we may see some characters recurring from Origin of Pc's.....

wow, guess she has robbed that place a few times if she knows the layout and routines so well after all this time

and LOVE the idea of using :belkar: as an alarm for detecting :roy: being sold/moved

[Fitzclowningham]

Actually, I was wondering what the rattle was in Roy's boot in the previous comic. A toe bone? Maybe they won't need the golem after all.

[HUMVEE Driver]

Whoo-Hoo!

Go Haley!

[warmachine]

Hooray! The evil Belkar will be back.

[Frosty]

I wanna see what's happening with the rest of the group now...

[Berserk Monk]

Great!
Loved the jokes and the story development.
I bet Redcloak is level 17 too.

[AMJ]

Excellent. I just popped in to check before going to bed, and there it is a nice new comic...

[Kaytara]

Huh, I feel somewhat sorry for Celia now... Trying to figure things out when she really has no idea how things in the real world function.

I didn't really get her plan, though. O.o She says she won't leave Belkar behind, but if they take him to Cliffport they'll be setting off the MoJ, anyway, so it won't tell them what happened to Roy's body...

But I guess it doesn't really matter anyway, since there's probably no way they're getting out of the city just yet. :P

On a side note... Haley and Celia consider deliberately triggering a crippling curse on an already incapacitated halfling? Belkar might be evil but that doesn't really justify treating HIM in an evil manner when you're a good character yourself....

And did Rich... did Rich just foreshadow the possibility of Redcloak casting True Resurrection on Roy? :smalleek::smallconfused: It's really too blatant to be foreshadowing, but that could also be a form of subtlety....

[Martok]

....Of course Grubwiggler would go straight to the Thieves' Guild.

This won't end well, that's for sure. :smalleek:

[Holammer]

I like how they don't have the foggiest that the mark is actually already active on Belkar.

[blackspeeker]

No blackspeeker, you are not alone in caring about Belkar. Sure he's evil, with no redeeming characteristics except being funny, but this comic sure wouldn't be as good without him.

It feels good to not be alone.

[Gamerlord]

The more i hear belkar the more i think that belkar has contracted the elan symptom That leads to your mind transforming into a slightly dumber version of elan.

[Mauve Shirt]

Aha, I was hoping the Thieves Guild would come up.
If only they knew Belkar's mark had been activated!

[ref]

....Of course Grubwiggler would go straight to the Thieves' Guild.

This won't end well, that's for sure. :smalleek:

Nope, I'd love to see how they'll get out of this.

Maybe Bozzak distributed fliers with big rewards for info about Haley.

[dogmac]

Oh man!!!!

Not nice Grubby....

[MrEdwardNigma]

Great comic!

It seems that Celia is not such a dumb character (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeThat) after all.

Nah, she's pretty stupid. The mark won't go off if Grubwiggler stays in town and sells the golem there, nor will it if he just sticks around his base. Plus, the mark already went off and Celia's plan will just result in our heroes sitting around waiting for nothing. Also, who says Grubwiggler doesn't take an escort of golems with him where-ever he goes?

[aapje]

Racial slur :smallbiggrin:

[d'Bwobsling]

No blackspeeker, you are not alone in caring about Belkar. Sure he's evil, with no redeeming characteristics except being funny, but this comic sure wouldn't be as good without him.

yeah, Belkar definetly has his moments.

[Stormpax]

As Elan would say:
DUN DUN DUN!!

[Haleyintraining]

Is the MoJ wearing off? I think the bubbles that didn't point to anyone was what Belkar was thinking. Maybe this experience will change Belkar. Or not. Probably not.

[Lizard Lord]

I believe Celia is meant to be the type of character that is smart in someways and stupid in others. I am pretty sure those kind of people exist.

[Tobrian]

This is... not good on so many levels. :smalleek: This is going downhill so fast you could waterski behind it.


I like how they don't have the foggiest that the mark is actually already active on Belkar.
Perhaps if they manage to find a cleric and tell him to cure Belkar of his "illness", the cleric will find out it's not a disease, it's a curse... and then hopefully they'll figure out that something must've happened that triggered the mark.

Or Roy finally manages to find a way to send them a message from beyond the veil, because he knows what happened at the oracle's house. :smallfrown:

Or maybe... wait a minute, I get an idea.... Grubwiggler (what a fitting name!) sells his golems to anyone with cash! Haley has just "liberated" a load of gold from Grubby's house; add to that any cash they looted from the oracle's domicile. (Which Celia took along with the cart to Grubwiggler's house to pay for Roy's resurrection, but where is that money now? She never paid Grubby, so the money must still be in the cart, and they had the cart during their get-away (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0578.html).)

Now, Grubwiggler knows all three and probably won't be willing to sell them the bone golem. But Celia has already demonstrated that she can cast Alter Self on page 538 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0538.html). So how about Celia takes the money, uses Alter Self, pretends she is someone else, tells Grubwiggler she wants to purchase a golem, buys the bone golem and simply walks out with it, and everyone's happy? :smallsmile: (Alternatively, they could sell Belkar's corpse to Grubwiggler.... hehehe, nah, that's too evil.) Or is that too straight-forward?

[dsollen]

I belive the idea is celia will stay with belkar and if his mark goes off she knows that roys body is being moved-theoretically she could even use how sick belkar is as a means of determining which direction to head to find roy. It wont work since Belkar mark already went off; but none of the characters remember that so you can't blame her for the mis-calculation.

I do have to wonder if there is any corrolation between roy being recruited to the undead side and belkar getting better. My better judgement says there is no way to do that without pulling out an extreamly stupid or cliched plot device(which I trust the giant not to do) but I guess there always a slight chance that the giant has thought up a way to do it that works. In the end belkar has to get healthy again, he isn't allowed to die untill the end of the series and we arn't there yet.

[SPoD]

The mark won't go off if Grubwiggler stays in town and sells the golem there,

Only if Greysky is less than two miles across. If the new owner lives further than one mile from Grubby's castle, then bringing it home will activate the mark. If they live closer than one mile from Grubby's castle, then when the girls get inside the castle again and don't find Roy, they will know that he is no further than one mile away and can focus their search there.


nor will it if he just sticks around his base.

So? Then they're no better or worse off than they are now. The theory is that if the mark never goes off, then at least they know the golem is still within one mile of Grubwiggler's castle. If it does go off, then they at least know it's been moved.


Plus, the mark already went off and Celia's plan will just result in our heroes sitting around waiting for nothing.

Yes, obviously WE know that, but they don't. Lack of data does not equal stupidity.


Also, who says Grubwiggler doesn't take an escort of golems with him where-ever he goes?

"Grubwiggler and golems out in the open" would still be an easier fight than "Grubwiggler and golems in their lair". He'll need to leave some golems at home to defend the castle, since the front door has been shattered to splinters.

[malakim2099]

Nah, she's pretty stupid.

No, she just is a normal person that doesn't KNOW anything about adventuring. Why should she, she's a lawyer, not an adventurer. :smallconfused:


The mark won't go off if Grubwiggler stays in town and sells the golem there, nor will it if he just sticks around his base. Plus, the mark already went off and Celia's plan will just result in our heroes sitting around waiting for nothing. Also, who says Grubwiggler doesn't take an escort of golems with him where-ever he goes?

Oh, he probably has one... but you really want them to go berserk at the improper time? Though I would like to echo the "BRING BACK ROY ALREADY!" sentiment I've been feeling for a while. It's getting frustrating. :smallannoyed:

[EvilElitest]

actully caring about Belkar? gods no
from
EE

[Rev. George]

Of Course, they don't know for sure that being away from Roy's Corpse will set off the MoJ. Belkar came up with that possibility in #468. If they use Belkar as a "Roy Alarm", and find out that Roy left, because they don't know the MoJ is already active, it is likely that they will assume "Roy's Body" doesn't count as "Roy" for that purpose.

-+G

[holywhippet]

I wonder if the mark might be somehow broken now. Since part of the spell was tied to Roy's body and his body has been used to create a golem the spell might have gotten confused as one part of it no longer exists as expected.

[David Argall]

can the Mark of Justice be reactivated? If Belkar is getting better, maybe it's meant to be aversion therapy, so when Belkar is healthy again, he'll learn not to do it again.

My guess is that the Mark has created a permanent condition where Belkar gets sick at the thought of violence. Thus, he rushed in with daggers drawn, and... Now he is just standing around, and he starts to feel better. Next time Belkar gets hostile, he is going to get sick again.
Now the Mark might have disappated if the plot can use a violent Belkar. Maybe Belkar is going to rescue the girls from the Guild in ten or so strips. But Mark of Justice is permanent, and he shouldn't be recovering to the level where he is melee useful.



The more i hear belkar the more i think that belkar has contracted the elan symptom That leads to your mind transforming into a slightly dumber version of elan.
That should be "almost as dumb as..." Elan is the gold standard on stupidity.



I bet Redcloak is level 17 too.
Not impossible, but so far, we have no evidence he is higher than 16th.

However, the main problem is figuring out how it is supposed to happen. We have lots of good reasons why Red and Roy are not going to get together or agree to the idea.



Celia's character is supposed to be stupid--it's certainly deliberate.
Celia is highly intelligent. She just doesn't know a lot of important things, at least things that are important if you are not behind those nice thick ivory tower walls, something that Celia is wishing she was. Of course her willingness to take shortcuts that might speed her way back to class is rash, but it's not stupid.



I didn't really get her plan, though. O.o She says she won't leave Belkar behind, but if they take him to Cliffport they'll be setting off the MoJ, anyway, so it won't tell them what happened to Roy's body...
It would seem she plans on staying in Greysky City with Belkar, and maybe with Haley. So she waits until Roy is moved, or until they figure out a way to break into the castle.


On a side note... Haley and Celia consider deliberately triggering a crippling curse on an already incapacitated halfling? Belkar might be evil but that doesn't really justify treating HIM in an evil manner when you're a good character yourself....
It is quite dicy behavior. However, it would seem that Haley & Celia's plan merely risks that and there may be no good way to avoid the risk. But keep in mind that Celia [correctly] deems Belkar a cold-blooded and vicious murderer, who fully deserves the punishment. Two wrongs don't make a right, but it is still a tempting way to make a balance.

[silversaraph]

I wonder if the mark might be somehow broken now. Since part of the spell was tied to Roy's body and his body has been used to create a golem the spell might have gotten confused as one part of it no longer exists as expected.

Becoming a golem really changes the body, and the MOJ seems complicated enough that the closest thing to being Roy's body right now might even be the foot bone Belkar found. The crew needed a Resurrection spell already anyway, and if Belkar's mark can't be activated again, or if the crew doesn't care about him, why don't they just keep going to find a cleric?

[Nevitan]

maybe the MoJ is just sort of shifting effects, his head and stomach will clear up then he'll like loose his voice and sight or something like that.... I dunno or maybe its one of the more logical guesses :smallannoyed:

[Lunaya]

Belkar may be feeling more lucid now because he's suddenly out in the rain. Think bucket of water + sleeping person.

Or, if one assumes that the delirium was fever-induced, the water might be lowering his temperature.

[brilliantlight]

Racial slur :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, I like that comment!!

[Trizap]

I Fav part is:

:haley: How can you be so smart sometimes and still be such an...an AIRHEAD!

Celia: Hey! No need for racial slurs!

[Grunty]

Okay, i bet someone already pointed this out, but could it be that, now that the seal is activated, Belkars sickness becomes worse everytime he is near Roy's body?

By the way since the forum didn't worked when Celia entered the city, the flyers for "your dead body for some coins" reminded me to Planescape Torment and the dust people.

But i'm just stating the obvious i guess.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Ooooh, boy.

"This ride is gonna get pretty interesting." :smallwink:

I'm pretty positive that Roy is gonna get revived really soon. Why? There's a ton of buildup going into this plot, they can't not resolve it without him getting raised from the dead.

[Underfoot]

I remember the cliffport story ark, with Elan in jail, and Nale lose, and I thought, "this can never end! What can the main characters possibly do to get out of this situation!" and, by the end of the ark, it was resolved, plus lose plotlines tied--We just need to be patient.

See, I liked the Nale story line. He was a fun villain that was fun to read about. As it is currently, though, Roy's the Main Character, the guy who puts the P in PC, and he's been dead for 25% of the strip's entire history. As such, it all just feels like interlude. While I'm glad to see Haley have a chance to shine, a lot of the post-Roy-death plotlines have seemed unnecessarily dragged out-- the way a GM will sometimes throw in extra side-quests before letting the party progress a major plot point if he's not sure where he's going with the game after said plot point is resolved. While Nale's "side plot" was very long, it was also really funny, and there hasn't been much room for humour since the South fell.

[HOLEkevin]

I'm thinking that Redcloak is going to end up rezzing Roy.

And hooray the story is moving again!

[Morgan Wick]

I didn't really get her plan, though. O.o She says she won't leave Belkar behind, but if they take him to Cliffport they'll be setting off the MoJ, anyway, so it won't tell them what happened to Roy's body...

Which is why she's trying to dissuade Haley from leaving for Cliffport. :)

It is interesting that Belkar seems to be getting more clear-headed and more like the old Belkar...

I'm guessing it'll be at least 590 before we leave Haley and Co. And since that doesn't leave much time for a Big Development in 600, I call us not leaving Haley until they meet back up with V/Elan/Durkon, and no Resistance or Team Evil updates until Hinjo tries to retake the city.

[Ellen]

I believe Celia is meant to be the type of character that is smart in someways and stupid in others. I am pretty sure those kind of people exist.

Looks in mirror.

Looks away, whistling innocently.

[Yougottawanna]

My guess is Grubwiggler has a deal with the thieves' guild - he pays them off and they don't steal from him. So when a thief shows up and robs him, he knows she's not part of the guild, and goes to them to let them know someone's trespassing on their turf.

[Steveio]

Or maybe the Thieves' Guild wants Haley's head on a pike.

I mean, she did ditch them.

[Ellen]

Or, given that Haley only got a miniscule percentage, Grubby would know the Thieves Guild should still have most of his stuff. He could either buy some of it back or, if he has an arrangement with them, get back everything but the token fee the thief kept.

Since that won't work, he - and the Guild - will know something's up.

Good thing Haley has a lawyer with a 100% success rate and a psychopathic killer who's feeling better working for her, although I'm sure she'd prefer a lot more of each.

[vonschlesie]

Poor Celia. First time in a while that she comes up with a good idea and it's useless.

[dps]

My guess is that the Mark has created a permanent condition where Belkar gets sick at the thought of violence. Thus, he rushed in with daggers drawn, and... Now he is just standing around, and he starts to feel better. Next time Belkar gets hostile, he is going to get sick again.


Yeah, that's pretty much what I think is happening. Whenever he tries to get violent, he gets sicker, but when he's not trying to use violence, the symptoms subside.

[Liwen]

And did Rich... did Rich just foreshadow the possibility of Redcloak casting True Resurrection on Roy? :smalleek::smallconfused: It's really too blatant to be foreshadowing, but that could also be a form of subtlety....

I have, for quite some time now, expected that Roy has a good chance of being raised by Redcloak. We don't know for what reason he would : Self preservation, treat of killing lots of his fellow goblins, convinience for his eventual betrayal of Xykon, but I totally smiled when I saw belkar's remark about RC's level.

[Badgercloak]

Another great comic. Maybe Belkar should look into getting a pair of Merciful daggers.

[Iamyourking]

Well, at least we do know that there is at least one person in the setting capable of casting True Ressurection due to (SOD Spoilers) Durokan was trying to Raise Lirian despite having no access to her body.

[Admiral_Kelly]

No, she just is a normal person that doesn't KNOW anything about adventuring. Why should she, she's a lawyer, not an adventurer. :smallconfused:Except it is not only about 'lawyers know different things than adventurers' but also about common sense - such as how her lighting ability is unique to her species and should not be assumed everyone has it and guys who operate under very shading circumstances and make their place of work look utterly demonic in a world where such things can come about and kill you is not to be trusted under any circumstances.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg. What is hard to understand about how stupid Celia is? Even Haley points it out. Does Burlew have to make her stick a hand in a cookie jar, then have her try to pull her hand holding a cookie out of the jar, but by holding the cookie her hand no longer fits out of the jar, but still keeps trying to pull her hand out anyway, saying "Where I come from, cookie jars are ethereal. Oh by the way, I have a low intelligence score." to get people to realize she is a dim bulb?

In the defense of Celia supports; she was not stupid until this story arch came about. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CharacterDerailment)

[RMS Oceanic]

Celia's not stupid, per se. She's ignorant about a lot of things, only being a College Student. She doesn't know about how humans work. She doesn't know about how adventuring works. She doesn't know how corruption and raising dead people work. Don't confuse naivity and lack of knowledge with stupidity.

[Mojique]

And now I feel like I need to go find the prequel books to understand what's about to happen
I got "On the Origin of PCs" last week by airmail. :smallsmile:

[mistformsquirrl]

I have, for quite some time now, expected that Roy has a good chance of being raised by Redcloak. We don't know for what reason he would : Self preservation, treat of killing lots of his fellow goblins, convinience for his eventual betrayal of Xykon, but I totally smiled when I saw belkar's remark about RC's level.

Interesting thoughts...

I definitely could see the last one - when Redcloak breaks from Xykon, it'd be damn useful to him to have Roy going after Xykon. If nothing else - Roy can take a few hits from Xykon while Redcloak makes good on whatever he's doing. I'm betting he'd break the Phylactery shortly after bringing Roy back, giving Roy a shot at killing Xykon for good, while Redcloak gets to avoid putting his neck on the line. (Its precisely what I'd do if I were an evil goblin cleric bent on getting away from my lich master <@_@> ... but then maybe its cause I read OOTS...)

I definitely don't think though that he'd bring Roy back to watch him slaughter goblins, remembering that Redcloak has an intense fondness for his own people these days.

All told, it definitely makes some good sense. That said Rich could just be throwing us a curveball <,<

[Blaznak]

This comic really needed one of those "Dun DUN Duhhhhhhs" at the end signalling foreshadowing. Well, for those of you NOT knowing the back ground of this, good time to go buy the old Origins book.
Later

[ref]

Celia was an air sylph that lived in a community of air sylphs... Then she got employed by Durokan, a wizard. Said wizard was then overthrown by Xykon, a sorcerer. Ergo, everyone can shoot lightning from their fingers.

A bit hasty, yes. But can't say it was totally stupid.

[Lissou]

Is Belkar using telepathy or is it an accident?

[Breltar]

When it is good enough that when I explain it to my wife (who isnt into fantasy/D&D/Etc as much) and she laughs, it is a good comic. :smallbiggrin:

[Ironwolf172]

The word you're looking for there is naive. Celia is plenty intelligent, there's just a lot of things about the world she doesn't understand yet.

I have to agree with this more. People keep thinking of Celia as an airhead but it really isn't there. How can she be expected to know things that were'nt ever taught to her. It was a great comic that really gets you thinking about what's going to happen next.

[only1doug]

I'm looking forward to the showdown between Haley and a certain former colleague of hers...




Doug

[Haleyintraining]

Well, at least we do know that there is at least one person in the setting capable of casting True Ressurection due to (SOD Spoilers) Durokan was trying to Raise Lirian despite having no access to her body.

But Durokan is dead too.

[Zjackrum]

Ooo... Unfortunate if you decided NOT to buy 'The Origin of PCs' ... you're all confused. I'm sure the cheap-skates will be given a quick initiation and brought up to speed rather quickly though. Or maybe there will be a lot more purchases in the online store in the next few days.

[DigoDragon]

Sometimes I feel like no one loves or cares for Belkar but me.

I dunno, I care for him a little. Sure he's a bit evil, but he's a lovable bit of evil.


Celia was an air sylph that lived in a community of air sylphs... Then she got employed by Durokan, a wizard. Said wizard was then overthrown by Xykon, a sorcerer. Ergo, everyone can shoot lightning from their fingers.

It's a good point if the only "humans" Celia has been hanging around are those who can throw lightning bolts. So I do agree that Celia is naive rather then stupid.

[blackspeeker]

I dunno, I care for him a little. Sure he's a bit evil, but he's a lovable bit of evil.

Not to mention he is a halfling so he is adorable like a small child. A tiny murderous child.

[Gamebird]

Ooo... Unfortunate if you decided NOT to buy 'The Origin of PCs' ... you're all confused. I'm sure the cheap-skates will be given a quick initiation and brought up to speed rather quickly though. Or maybe there will be a lot more purchases in the online store in the next few days.

Nah, I just have to read the discussion threads to figure out what's going on. I already have to do that for Erf. Not too tough to do it for OotS too.

[maxon]

Wait - his head is clearing?

Habeas Corpus indeed .... everything is going pear-shaped: lost the body, Haley and Celia rowing and Belkar feeling better. And where's the cat?

What would Elan Do? - Dun dun dun.

[EndlessWrath]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I think is happening. Whenever he tries to get violent, he gets sicker, but when he's not trying to use violence, the symptoms subside.

The saddest part of it is... I think he's learning his lesson. Now I doubt this lesson will stick, but he's learning to fight not for fighting's sake...but to save someone (as shown in the recent comics... he tries to save Celia...Then starts puking. XP)

anyways... On the topic of Celia's stupidity? She's not stupid. I'm not defending her because I love the character...trust me I don't... I'm voting for naive.

Intelligence does not mean you know a lot of facts about anything. You can't be expected to know anything you haven't A) studied. or B) came across before. or C) the topic never came up.

Humans can't throw lightning bolts (unless they take levels in magic class -_-).. we all know that...its really natural to us... but not to Celia. Heck.. I didn't know sylph could throw lightning till I saw her do it. Besides...she knows a ton about law (her major) and is apparently doing well in the classes...or was until she got summoned here.
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What would Elan Do? - Dun dun dun.

I think he would do just that. He would pop into the comic for just a second and do the "Dun dun duuuuuunnn" sound. and he wouldn't be stopped cause Roy can't stop him.

[mizzim]

for those of you who haven't read the book:


in The origin of PCs, haley quits the thievs guild who then tries to assasinate her. she is currently in greysky city, where the thieves guild is. what's-his-name has just informed them that she is in the city.:smallannoyed:

[Haleyintraining]

for those of you who haven't read the book:


in The origin of PCs, haley quits the thievs guild who then tries to assasinate her. she is currently in greysky city, where the thieves guild is. what's-his-name has just informed them that she is in the city.:smallannoyed:

If you are saying things about the books put them in spoilers, [spoi ler] blah blah blah [/spoil er] without the space, so people who are going to read the book but haven't yet won't be have the story spoiled.

[Aerysil]

*yet another facepalm*

They're gonna lose Roy, aren't they...

[Samurai Jill]

Okay strip, I guess.

[Linkavitch]

It seems ironic that there is a 'no soliciting' sign on the 'Thieves Guild' sign, cause it seems to me that if someone is soliciting, they may be scoping out the place to try to rob it...and considering it is the Thieves Guild...

[Flying Platypus]

I bet Redcloak will end up resurecting Roy either by acident or for interigation, some other twisted reason, etc. Then Belkar will be right and his charecter can get back to being cool again :smallcool:

[cildan]

what's with the bubbles as speach balloons on belkar? is he less delerious? can the mark of justice wear off? Nice comic...
and:

I certainly don't love or care for him.... Yikes.

I think the bubbles without tails show what he is thinking and the ones with are what he is saying out loud

[aarondirebear]

Yes, they will need a writ of "habeas corpus"
Because they certainly don't "habeas" the "corpus" right now.
The corpus is walking around as a bone golem. So they have no way of habbing it.

[Ninja]

good comic. as for the tailless bubbles i think he said it out loud but you know, not too loud, and no one noticed he said anything....

[Murphoid]

I don't know why some are saying that you have to have the origins book to understand what's going on. Haley used to be in the Theives Guild here. She left on less than amiable circumstances. They now know she is back in town and hilarity ensues. I know all that just from reading the comic. I am sure it is well worth the read however.

I too thought a Dah-Dah-Duuuh was needed at the end.

Apparently no one noticed the rattle in the boot, so maybe this will come up again later, They might discover it or their enemies might discover it. Also, sometimes a rattle is just a rattle.

I love the ongoing gag that they automatically know what level you need to be to cast a spell.

The tail-less buble is a new invention. Where tails are used for speech and bubbles are used for thought, Tail-less bubbles are used for when it doesn't matter as no one was paying attention, exactly like Belkar in that conversation.

[katkin]

mmmm pathetic fallacy...:smallsmile:

[EndlessWrath]

I'm still convinced the Giant will wait it out (the x many days it takes for cloister to wear off...speaking of which..anyone have any clue how many weeks are left?) and then have Durkon meet up with the team. That meat up will be like 10 pages long. However, they'll have assassins (or rather more assassins) on their tails from now on

[Murphoid]

I'm still convinced the Giant will wait it out (the x many days it takes for cloister to wear off...speaking of which..anyone have any clue how many weeks are left?) and then have Durkon meet up with the team. That meat up will be like 10 pages long. However, they'll have assassins (or rather more assassins) on their tails from now on

There is no way to tell how much time has passed. We aren't told each time the sun sets and rises. All he would need to do is have one of the characters say "Good thing it has been x days since y event occurred." Or something like that. There wouldn't be any need to wait a certain number of strips, would there?

I would love a ten pages long installment.

I think that this comic not being daily gives the author freedom to only have a comic that means something to the plot and not just I gotta crank somethin out to fill the space. Everycomic is good in it's own way. But what do we do while waiting?

[Ninja]

Every comic is good in it's own way. But what do we do while waiting?

make totally unrealistic theories and predictions that will make other people think you were high when you were posting it, obviously.

[Vaarsuvius4181]

celia, your still stupid.

[Murphoid]

celia, your still stupid.

She prefers the term INT Challanged.

(Your sig seems to be missing a website after my website. Sorry if this was supposed to be ironic and I just didn't catch on.)

[katkin]

make totally unrealistic theories and predictions that will make other people think you were high when you were posting it, obviously.


Belkar will sacrifice his body so Roy can be raised in his halfling flesh!
Haley will have a joyous and totally none- bloody meeting with her old friends from the Thieves Guild!
Eugene will be Elan's father! But not Nale's!

I am not high. Except on life

[David Argall]

Originally Posted by Liwen
I have, for quite some time now, expected that Roy has a good chance of being raised by Redcloak. We don't know for what reason he would : Self preservation, treat of killing lots of his fellow goblins, convinience for his eventual betrayal of Xykon,

Where do we see any evidence of any of this? It all sounds like excuses to try to justify nonsense.


Interesting thoughts...

I definitely could see the last one - when Redcloak breaks from Xykon, it'd be damn useful to him to have Roy going after Xykon.
Where does this "when" come from? Redcloak either betrayed Xykon long ago, or is not going to, depending on how you define it.
Redcloak has a goal, and that goal requires him to be absolutely loyal to Xykon. No high level mage, no gate controled by the Dark One. Xykon must be obeyed all the way until the gate is under the Dark One's control, at which point Xykon is unimportant. Roy simply does not serve any sort of purpose against Xykon.
It all seems like the reasoning is "I like Redcloak. Therefore he ends up on the side of the good guys." That's nonsense. there are loads of nice people on the wrong side. And Redcloak is not nice.


Origin

for those of you who haven't read the book:


in The origin of PCs, haley quits the thievs guild who then tries to assasinate her. she is currently in greysky city, where the thieves guild is. what's-his-name has just informed them that she is in the city.

As said, stuff like this is to be put in spoiler tags, with the book identified in open text. However, a couple of minor corrections...
There was no known attempt to assasinate Haley. All Haley knows is that she was warned that an assassin was going to be coming after her. Since the source of this information was a known liar and crook, it is far from certain there ever was any intent to harm her, but Haley deems the possibility serious enough that she was not sure if she was going to survive long enough to flee town.
We can assume Haley is remembered with bad feelings, but the main reason for that is that it makes the plot go. If we were insisting on realism, Haley would be largely forgotten and she would just be considered a rogue rogue, which is likely also somebody the guild wants to kill.

[SteveDJ]

I think the Giant got the title wrong. He usually does something to play with the words of a normal phrase, but he didn't this time.

Shouldn't it have been "...habeas corpse" ?

[Ninja]

no definitly corpus... there is some thingamajober called Writ of Habeus Corpus.... i have no idea what it is.... but google it if you want to find out....

[SteveMB]

no definitly corpus... there is some thingamajober called Writ of Habeus Corpus.... i have no idea what it is.... but google it if you want to find out....

Literally, it's Latin for "you have the body". Habeas Corpus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus) is the legal term for a writ requiring that a prisoner, and the justification for holding the prisoner captive, be brought before a court.

[Ninja]

thx for explaining... i just read one line on wiki and gave up.......

[Ramien]

She prefers the term INT Challanged.


Just because she never put any ranks in Knowledge: Nature...

[Sabre13]

Sometimes I feel like no one loves or cares for Belkar but me.


And now I feel like I need to go find the prequel books to understand what's about to happen

Thats not true! i love belkar, and think that hes less delirious because -since Roy is now a golem- his mark of Justice is now gone.:roach:

[wzeller]

Well, I finally broke down and ordered OTOOTPC. (Also ordered Start of Darkness while I was at it.) I hope the recent detour into this city is more than just a way to sell more of the books... But regardless, I'm glad I finally had an excuse! :smallsmile:

[mizzim]

Origin [spoiler]

All Haley knows is that she was warned that an assassin was going to be coming after her. Since the source of this information was a known liar and crook, it is far from certain there ever was any intent to harm her, but Haley deems the possibility serious enough that she was not sure if she was going to survive long enough to flee town.


Haley is a liar and a crook. she still rocks:smallbiggrin:

[Halvormerlinaky]

Just because she never put any ranks in Knowledge: Nature...

Apparently she put a lot of ranks in Knowledge (Nature) since she knows that chocolate is deadly to some animals. She hasn't put any into Knowledge (Humans) (Demi-humans) (Humanoid society).

Once again, she probably has a very high Int. She's just never bothered to learn about anything besides Law and the most basic of other things.

[Sabre13]

[QUOTE=David Argall;4627822]
Originally Posted by Liwen
I have, for quite some time now, expected that Roy has a good chance of being raised by Redcloak. We don't know for what reason he would : Self preservation, treat of killing lots of his fellow goblins, convinience for his eventual betrayal of Xykon,

Where do we see any evidence of any of this? It all sounds like excuses to try to justify nonsense.


Where does this "when" come from? Redcloak either betrayed Xykon long ago, or is not going to, depending on how you define it.
Redcloak has a goal, and that goal requires him to be absolutely loyal to Xykon. No high level mage, no gate controled by the Dark One. Xykon must be obeyed all the way until the gate is under the Dark One's control, at which point Xykon is unimportant. Roy simply does not serve any sort of purpose against Xykon.
It all seems like the reasoning is "I like Redcloak. Therefore he ends up on the side of the good guys." That's nonsense. there are loads of nice people on the wrong side. And Redcloak is not nice.


Redcloak may still betray Xykon, because look at him: he keeps trying to kill Mr. Stiffly (i cant remember his name, so sue me) in new and amusing ways, thereby impeding his attempts to locate the other Gates. He also forced RC to ally them with Hobgoblins, and almost turns him into an uncaring warlord who sacrifices minions like its going out of style. If it already hasnt happened, its in the way.


"What gate?":mitd:

[Sabre13]

Apparently she put a lot of ranks in Knowledge (Nature) since she knows that chocolate is deadly to some animals. She hasn't put any into Knowledge (Humans) (Demi-humans) (Humanoid society).

Once again, she probably has a very high Int. She's just never bothered to learn about anything besides Law and the most basic of other things.

Note also, that she is Blonde. (my apologies to all who are offended by blonde jokes) It may not be her fault.


"Hit me. With your light." :mitd:

[Sabre13]

Belkar will sacrifice his body so Roy can be raised in his halfling flesh!
Haley will have a joyous and totally none- bloody meeting with her old friends from the Thieves Guild!
Eugene will be Elan's father! But not Nale's!

I am not high. Except on life

YAAAY LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!
While i can understand the need to be obscure(i feel that same need a lot:smallbiggrin:), lol what? Belkar is too selfish and would never save Roy anyway(review the Mark of Justice bits):smalltongue:.

"Well, I don't have to worry about saying "squiddlydoodlefluffer" in casual conversation anymore.":roy:

[Ramien]

Apparently she put a lot of ranks in Knowledge (Nature) since she knows that chocolate is deadly to some animals. She hasn't put any into Knowledge (Humans) (Demi-humans) (Humanoid society).

Once again, she probably has a very high Int. She's just never bothered to learn about anything besides Law and the most basic of other things.

But Knowledge (Nature) is also used to identify humanoids, and humans are a decidedly low DC for that check. She probably picked up the bit about chocolate as background for a lawsuit she was working on.

[Kingrat]

I have to agree with Admiral Kelley.

The simple fun of watching the group of adventurers take on the lich is now drowned in multiple sub-plots.

The story is becoming novel-like, and not comedy-like. It's good in one sense, but sadly its becoming more of a rote for me to view the comics, hoping it would move things along instead of dragging...and dragging...and somemore dragging.....

[DigoDragon]

Not to mention he is a halfling so he is adorable like a small child. A tiny murderous child.

"I shall call him... MiniMe."



"What gate?":mitd:

The...? :smallconfused: They haven't mentioned the gates in a while, have they? I think there's two left.

[Blaznak]

By the way, anyone else digging the funky "I'm sick" marks on Belkar's face? Just think its a cool effect...

[mizzim]

Note also, that she is Blonde. (my apologies to all who are offended by blonde jokes) It may not be her fault.

she isn't blonde. she has white hair. blonde hair is yellow:cool:

[Tundar]

I like how they don't have the foggiest that the mark is actually already active on Belkar.

So do I. It's hillarious!

[Teatime]

When did Belkar, or anyone in the Order of the Stick, learn Redcloak's name? Sure, they knew "a goblin in a red cloak" worked for Xykon, but has there been a point where they became somewhat more well acquainted that I'm not remembering right now?

[factotum]

When did Belkar, or anyone in the Order of the Stick, learn Redcloak's name? Sure, they knew "a goblin in a red cloak" worked for Xykon, but has there been a point where they became somewhat more well acquainted that I'm not remembering right now?

As already pointed out, Belkar and Haley have just spent several months leading the resistance in a city ruled by Redcloak. You don't think they might have picked up his name along the way? (Note that they definitely didn't seem to know it at the start of the resistance--in the panel where they're planning to get the air freshener to sweeten the smell of Roy's decomposing body, they just refer to him as "the goblin cleric". He's the only goblin in the army, so it must have been Redcloak they were talking about).

[Sabre13]

"I shall call him... MiniMe."




The...? :smallconfused: They haven't mentioned the gates in a while, have they? I think there's two left.

lol i kno what gates, i had no room in my signature

[Sabre13]

I like how they don't have the foggiest that the mark is actually already active on Belkar.

Well i think that since Roys body is now a golem and no longer roys body, theres an important bit missing from the Mark and it cant still be valid. I think that its gone.

[Tobrian]

But Knowledge (Nature) is also used to identify humanoids, and humans are a decidedly low DC for that check. She probably picked up the bit about chocolate as background for a lawsuit she was working on.
If you ask me, the low skill check DC on humans is due to the fact that, frankly, WotC sees humans as the default standard race for 3E and the Prime Material Plane as the default setting.

If you were playing a Planescape campaign, humans are not the dominant race, and if you met a human in Sigil there's a 50/50 chance he's not a Prime, but a planar human. Does that guy fall under Knowledge (nature) or (the planes)? Or both?

Take a 3E tiefling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm#tiefling) for example: He's technically a humanoid, and may have grown up among normal humans... but also a member of a planetouched race, which makes him, ruleswise, an Outsider. Outsiders fall under Knowledge (the Planes), not Knowledge (Nature). But the tiefling (and other races like the fey'ri for example) are socalled "native" Outsiders, because (ruleswise) they're native to the Prime Material Plane. (It gets more confusing if said tiefling was born in the Outlands or in Sigil.)

If I were playing a Planescape campaign with nonhuman PCs, I'd lower the skill DC to identify common Planar races, and raise the DC if they meet an "exotic" human or elf from the Prime. Same goes for Underdark campaigns. *shrug*

[Sabre13]

If you ask me, the low skill check DC on humans is due to the fact that, frankly, WotC sees humans as the default standard race for 3E and the Prime Material Plane as the default setting.

If you were playing a Planescape campaign, humans are not the dominant race, and if you met a human in Sigil there's a 50/50 chance he's not a Prime, but a planar human. Does that guy fall under Knowledge (nature) or (the planes)? Or both?

Take a 3E tiefling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm#tiefling) for example: He's technically a humanoid, and may have grown up among normal humans... but also a member of a planetouched race, which makes him, ruleswise, an Outsider. Outsiders fall under Knowledge (the Planes), not Knowledge (Nature). But the tiefling (and other races like the fey'ri for example) are socalled "native" Outsiders, because (ruleswise) they're native to the Prime Material Plane. (It gets more confusing if said tiefling was born in the Outlands or in Sigil.)

If I were playing a Planescape campaign with nonhuman PCs, I'd lower the skill DC to identify common Planar races, and raise the DC if they meet an "exotic" human or elf from the Prime. Same goes for Underdark campaigns. *shrug*

lol Doesnt anyone think this is a bit too complicated? by the sound of things, we all have too much time on our hands.:eek:

[David Argall]

Belkar and Haley have spent months fighting Redcloak's rule of Azure City. His banner is on the wall, and likely a lot of other places. So they should know a lot about him.

[katkin]

YAAAY LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!
While i can understand the need to be obscure(i feel that same need a lot:smallbiggrin:), lol what? Belkar is too selfish and would never save Roy anyway(review the Mark of Justice bits):smalltongue:.

"Well, I don't have to worry about saying "squiddlydoodlefluffer" in casual conversation anymore.":roy:

That was in response to something ninja said about 'making up wild and random theories while waiting for the next oots'. And you never know, it COULD happen. (it couldn't)

But it might! (it never will)

[Sabre13]

That was in response to something ninja said about 'making up wild and random theories while waiting for the next oots'. And you never know, it COULD happen. (it couldn't)

But it might! (it never will)

lol Thanks for that, i joined this yesterday and havent read the whole thread:eek:. Bear with me a sec, i probly repeated a whole lotta stuff already.

[Iamyourking]

But Durokan is dead too.

Right, but Durokan was a wizard and as such incapable of ressurecting people. This shows that he had contacts with high-level Clerics or Outsiders.