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SoD
2008-07-31, 06:53 AM
I have recently been world-building for the world for my campaign I am soon starting...and have found out that one of my ideas is pretty much identical to that of a book I have never read:

My Place: Algaria. Capital: Blackhearth, a city where you can find people of pretty much any race, and/or discription. If you need someone for a specific job, you can find them there.

The One I just found: Country name: Algaria. Capital: The Stronghold, a city holding people of many races, and the only place you can find Algars.

Or so I have been told, and wikipedia agrees with most of that (and doesn't mention the others).



I have ever read any book by David Eddings before...

Tempest Fennac
2008-07-31, 06:54 AM
I think the problem is that there's only so much you can do for this sort of thing, which results in a high chance of other people thinking of the idea independantly. I don't think there is really a way to counter it without time travel sadly.

SoD
2008-07-31, 06:57 AM
But even the same name for the country? That's what's bothering me the most, and because of that, my players will (presumably) pick up other similarities (minor or not).

Narg, I feel like Eddings stole my idea. :mad:

Adumbration
2008-07-31, 06:59 AM
There are over six billion people in the world. And that's just the present time. What are the chances that you ever get a truly original idea?

Very good actually. :smalltongue:

EDIT: Heh, what was the original name of the half-something ranger again?

Dhavaer
2008-07-31, 06:59 AM
I'd suggest not worrying about it; the country name is only one letter away from Algeria, and the city desription is fairly general. Anyway, maybe your players haven't read Eddings either.

SoD
2008-07-31, 07:04 AM
There are over six billion people in the world. And that's just the present time. What are the chances that you ever get a truly original idea?

Very good actually. :smalltongue:

EDIT: Heh, what was the original name of the half-something ranger again?

Don't you get snarky with my, Yakman. And I'll get back to you on Ranger man, it's written down somewhere in my book.


I'd suggest not worrying about it; the country name is only one letter away from Algeria, and the city desription is fairly general. Anyway, maybe your players haven't read Eddings either.

One of my players pointed it out to me, and asked if I'd been getting ideas from there...

TheCountAlucard
2008-07-31, 07:34 AM
One of my players pointed it out to me, and asked if I'd been getting ideas from there...

Ouch. I hate when what I think is an original concept has been done already...

Morty
2008-07-31, 07:50 AM
Bah. I've thought up a name for my character once, just to discover few years later that there was a famous American physicist named almost the same, with only one letter changed.

AstralFire
2008-07-31, 08:22 AM
Yeah, the fact that it's only one letter off of Algeria and the vowel substitution is one of the more popular ones ('a' and 'e' = sexy vowels, 'u' = no, generally) means that chances are pretty high actually.

That which has been is that which will be, and that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=25&chapter=1&verse=9&version=49&context=verse)

Just worry about making it -good- rather than original. That in itself can be original. :biggrin:

Totally Guy
2008-07-31, 08:43 AM
That's nothing, I have a whole campaign based around a concept for my first time GMing and all we need to do is finish the current campaign and I can take over.

The end to the campaign we were just finishing allowed a player to use exactly the same concept to sculpt the ending.

Now when I get to it they'll think it was stolen from the last campaign. When I told my little brother how the current campaign has ended he said one word. Pwned.

AstralFire
2008-07-31, 08:45 AM
That's nothing, I have a whole campaign based around a concept for my first time GMing and all we need to do is finish the current campaign and I can take over.

The end to the campaign we were just finishing allowed a player to use exactly the same concept to sculpt the ending.

Now when I get to it they'll think it was stolen from the last campaign. When I told my little brother how the current campaign has ended he said one word. Pwned.

That's a little hard to parse while you're speaking in vagaries, can you give specifics? (That and I am interested.)

Totally Guy
2008-07-31, 09:06 AM
My campaign was to be built around a Lich that hid his phylactery inside a structural column deep in a dungeon under a town so that in order for him to be destroyed "rocks fall everybody dies".

At the end of our last campaign we ended up with an artefact so powerful that our rogue suggested that it be hidden within the structural column of a dungeon so that if anyone removes it "rocks fall everyone dies".

You should have seen my face when the rogue suggested that. What was a fantastic campaign end suddenly hit a nerve. It was not even a matter of suggesting something else as the idea already had already got out to my entire gaming group.

AstralFire
2008-07-31, 09:12 AM
My campaign was to be built around a Lich that hid his phylactery inside a structural column deep in a dungeon under a town so that in order for him to be destroyed "rocks fall everybody dies".

At the end of our last campaign we ended up with an artefact so powerful that our rogue suggested that it be hidden within the structural column of a dungeon so that if anyone removes it "rocks fall everyone dies".

You should have seen my face when the rogue suggested that. What was a fantastic campaign end suddenly hit a nerve. It was not even a matter of suggesting something else as the idea already had already got out to my entire gaming group.

There are plenty of inconvenient places for Liches to put their phylacteries. I've seen huge, multipage threads on this.

I hate undead so I couldn't tell you any of them off-hand except for the Lich who turned an entire city into his phylactery. Sorry. But I'm sure lots of people have ideas on the subject.

Dervag
2008-07-31, 09:14 AM
I have recently been world-building for the world for my campaign I am soon starting...and have found out that one of my ideas is pretty much identical to that of a book I have never read:

My Place: Algaria. Capital: Blackhearth, a city where you can find people of pretty much any race, and/or discription. If you need someone for a specific job, you can find them there.

The One I just found: Country name: Algaria. Capital: The Stronghold, a city holding people of many races, and the only place you can find Algars.

Or so I have been told, and wikipedia agrees with most of that (and doesn't mention the others).

I have ever read any book by David Eddings before...I've read pretty much everything he wrote before 2000 or so (I've heard his more recent stuff has gone downhill).

The Algarian Stronghold is not a city where you can find people of many races. It's basically a giant fortress in the middle of nowhere. Nor is it the only place you can find Algars. Most of the Algars don't actually live there. They're nomadic horsemen, so they follow their herds all over the place. They built the Stronghold over a very long period of time to serve as a ceremonial capital (and as a lure for enemy armies).

Whereas the city of Blackhearth you describe is more like a cosmopolitan trading city.

I think it's totally fine. By now, a large fraction of all the good-sounding three syllable names for cities, people, and countries have been used by fantasy authors. Since your Algarian capital (and probably your Algars) is very different from the one in Eddings, it's ridiculous for anyone to accuse you of ripping off of Eddings.

bosssmiley
2008-07-31, 09:16 AM
My campaign was to be built around a Lich that hid his phylactery inside a structural column deep in a dungeon under a town so that in order for him to be destroyed "rocks fall everybody dies".

At the end of our last campaign we ended up with an artefact so powerful that our rogue suggested that it be hidden within the structural column of a dungeon so that if anyone removes it "rocks fall everyone dies".

You should have seen my face when the rogue suggested that. What was a fantastic campaign end suddenly hit a nerve. It was not even a matter of suggesting something else as the idea already had already got out to my entire gaming group.

For a second I thought you were going to end that with: "...and then I picked up Tomb of Horrors". :smallbiggrin:

edit: Edding's Algarians = a straight copypaste of Tolkien's Rohirrim (aka 'Anglo-Saxon Cossacks' pace Diana Wynn-Jones)

Wow. There really is nothing new under the sun, is there?

Totally Guy
2008-07-31, 09:27 AM
There are plenty of inconvenient places for Liches to put their phylacteries. I've seen huge, multipage threads on this.

I hate undead so I couldn't tell you any of them off-hand except for the Lich who turned an entire city into his phylactery. Sorry. But I'm sure lots of people have ideas on the subject.

That's not the problem. The lich has already been defeated before the game even begins. The there are 5 characters all with a plan revolving around how the other reacts to the situation. One is using guarding the dungeon as the secret keeps him in power. One is not aware of the dungeon contents but wants to expose it to topple the regime. One is going to turn on that guy in an attempt to control the lich. One is locked inside and wants to find a replacement to kill the lich every day instead of him. Then there is the one that wants to ransom situation. And the lich himself if any of them screw up somehow. The PCs will be integral as to the who defeats who and where they all get to for the next stage of the respective plans.

Jayabalard
2008-07-31, 09:41 AM
But even the same name for the country? That's what's bothering me the most, and because of that, my players will (presumably) pick up other similarities (minor or not).

Narg, I feel like Eddings stole my idea. :mad:Edding's Algaria just has Alorns (a single race) living in it; in fact, they only have a pretty specific subrace of the Alorns living there, since they are far different than the Drasnians, Chrereks or Rivans. They're pretty homogeneous, nomadic people who raise horses and cattle. If you need someone for a specific job, and that job doesn't involve horsemanship then you'll need to look in a different country. The Stronghold (the nominal capital) is pretty much just a diversionary target with noone living there (the Algars are nomads, they have no use for cities). So your country isn't at all like Edding's other than the name.

AstralFire
2008-07-31, 09:46 AM
That's not the problem. The lich has already been defeated before the game even begins. The there are 5 characters all with a plan revolving around how the other reacts to the situation. One is using guarding the dungeon as the secret keeps him in power. One is not aware of the dungeon contents but wants to expose it to topple the regime. One is going to turn on that guy in an attempt to control the lich. One is locked inside and wants to find a replacement to kill the lich every day instead of him. Then there is the one that wants to ransom situation. And the lich himself if any of them screw up somehow. The PCs will be integral as to the who defeats who and where they all get to for the next stage of the respective plans.

Hmm. Keep the same concept but instead make his phylactery be a wall in the back of a cave?

And the wall is hiding lava?

Lava that destroys the town?

Totally Guy
2008-07-31, 10:05 AM
Yeah, as long as it can destroy stuff the gambit is preserved. That adds a new dimension.
"So you've been killing this lich for 5 years and you've not destroyed the phylactery?"
"That is correct, there was a plaque upon the wall that speaks of sealed lava so I did not destroy it."
"And you trust it, it was probably written by the lich?"
"Yes, but the consequences of it being untrue wastes my life. The consequences of it being true wastes everybody's"

But then that's just asking for the players to destroy the town... I suppose it could be changed. But I really wanted to use my scary column prop.

AstralFire
2008-07-31, 10:11 AM
Yeah, as long as it can destroy stuff the gambit is preserved. That adds a new dimension.
"So you've been killing this lich for 5 years and you've not destroyed the phylactery?"
"That is correct, there was a plaque upon the wall that speaks of sealed lava so I did not destroy it."
"And you trust it, it was probably written by the lich?"
"Yes, but the consequences of it being untrue wastes my life. The consequences of it being true wastes everybody's"

But then that's just asking for the players to destroy the town... I suppose it could be changed. But I really wanted to use my scary column prop.

How is the Loadbearing Boss not asking for the players to destroy the town? o.O

Totally Guy
2008-07-31, 10:27 AM
If destruction is assured they can make that choice at their own free will. If it looks like a bluff they might assume that this is the reason for them being there and metagame away their options. I'm assuming this encounter will be the end of the arch and by then I'm sure I'll have thought of this. The feuding villains is what what interests me at the moment and hopefully will keep the action going. This is the reveal, this is why the gambits all fit together.

It might go villain of the week, or it might end up 30 Xanatos pile-up.

Anyway sorry for Thread derailment.

AslanCross
2008-07-31, 04:31 PM
I'd really not worry about being totally original. Even if you made your city a massive fortress of nearly molten brass hanging by chains from the ceiling of an enormous underground cavern, you still wouldn't be original (combined features of the City of Dis and Jangling Hiter from the Nine Hells)---but your city would be awesome.

I prefer actively stealing from others, tossing those ideas into a blender and hitting "frappe" instead of thinking that "YES MY WORK IS ORIGINAL! Or not." As they say, originality is more of copying others' work and forgetting that you did.

SoD
2008-08-01, 02:42 AM
I prefer actively stealing from others, tossing those ideas into a blender and hitting "frappe" instead of thinking that "YES MY WORK IS ORIGINAL! Or not." As they say, originality is more of copying others' work and forgetting that you did.

I do do some of that, and, although embarassing when the players twig onto it, I have no problem. However, when something I'd thought up by myself thinking "This seems good, I'll do that" as opposed to "Whoa! That's good! I'll take that, thank you" it gets on my nerves. Although, I must admit that it seems that only the name is the same. That makes me feel better about it, but still. Grr...stoopid eddings.

Kami2awa
2008-08-01, 03:56 AM
Fantasy draws on a pool of ideas, and most D&D worlds are pretty similar. Also, theres a formula for fantasy place names (often ending in -ia) so its not so odd. If your worried, change the name, or used an anagram (Galaria? Argalia?) and call it an Eddings allusion.

valadil
2008-08-01, 06:36 AM
One of the things I learned when I wrote for a sketch comedy troupe is that there is a limited number of premises to write about. What makes a sketch original or not is the direction you take that premise.

This applies to roleplaying too. I run what I'm told is a fairly original game. But I draw a lot of inspiration from movies. Sometimes I even rip them off directly. When I do it though, I take a single scene and bring the game to that scene. The direction the players took to get there has little to do with the actual movie. The direction the players take on the way out has even less. Yes, the scene was stolen, but the product of (getting there) * (scene) * (conclusion) ends up being something unique.

Here's an example. A couple games ago I'd watched The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly while planning game start. I wanted to copy the scene where Tuco is getting hanged for his many crimes and Clint shoots the rope so he can collect Tuco's reward in another town. Well, it's D&D so thematically speaking shooting the rope doesn't make sense. I also didn't want that to be the plot, just an introduction. I'd always wanted to execute a player character though and I really like messing with expectations. So let's hang a PC. Oh and let's not just set him up for the hanging, let's actually go through with it! At this point I talked to a roommate who was playing in the game. He's big in the larp writing community and appreciates attempts to mess with players heads. I told him we'd be introducing his character at the second session, but for the first game he'd have to play this Belkar clone and not to tell the other players that it wasn't his real character.

Through various other means the players all arrived to see the hanging. They were surprised, but not shocked when a PC arrived with his head in a noose. I'd been spreading rumors that the guy being hanged was innocent (he had murdered quite a few people, but was being hanged for another crime that wasn't his). The convention here would be for the PCs to jump in and save him. They were nervous about it, but told me that they weren't about to jump the guards over some rumors especially when it was pretty clear that the guy being hanged deserved to die. Okay. Halfling hangs and players apologize for making the other guy roll up a new character.

It didn't quite go as planned of course, but what fun would GMing be if it did? The resulting session was new and interesting, and it took the PCs out of their comfort zones as none of them had been in a situation like that before that went against their expectations.

So just to sum up, the intro was a standard D&D introduction where a bunch of people are brought to one place (in this case it was a festival culminating in a tourney and execution), a ripped off and distorted scene from a popular movie, and a broken convention that left the PCs wondering if they did the right thing. And it all started with that ripped off scene.