View Full Version : Sins of the father

2008-07-31, 02:23 PM
Hello gaming peaple. Im running a campaine that will might end around level 10 or 12. The campaine is about a dragon cult and the rise of a new god. Thats how I'm rerighting a published adventure. Wile flipping through the MMs afew weeks ago I was inspired by a nice big baddy that would work well for a critter who had intentions of god hood. However its a CR 26. I dont want to throw the party against the full power of that monster. It is a type of dragon just not your one of the basic types.

This is my question. Whats the easyest way to handling the creation of the BEBG? Dumb down the stats of the CR 26 monster? Or use the stats of a dragon with the apporpiat CR and give/swap out the abbilites of the CR 26 monster?

I want to make challenging but I dont want to brake the BEBG by eather nerfing it or making it unkillable for the party.

2008-07-31, 03:25 PM
Well, could you be more specific as to what the CR 26 monster is (and what MM it's in)?

Off the top of my head I'd say you need to shoot for a BBEG that has a CR of the Party Level + 4 (for a very difficult encounter, as befitting a BBEG), so you're looking at CR 14-16.

If it's a dragon, you can go ahead and just use the ability scores, attack bonuses, damage, skills, and stuff like that from a similar dragon in the MM. Then just swap out the breath weapon and other abilities for abilities SIMILAR to the ones of the CR 26 beast. You don't want a CR 14 creature with, say, a breath weapon that mimics disintegrate or whatever.

What adventure are you running, by the way? Sounds sort of like Red Hand of Doom, but I don't think it is.

Oh, and actually, now that I think about it, if you need a dragonlike BBEG, the Aspect of Tiamat from that adventure (I think it's CR 16 or so, and I believe was reprinted in Dragon Magic or one of the later MMs) would be near perfect.

2008-07-31, 06:19 PM
Lessee... I'm betting you're talking about the Hellfire Wyrm, from Fiend Folio (only CR 26 dragon-y monster that is from a Monster Manual I can think of). If so, then I'd advise you cut the spellcasting power from it, along with reducing it's stats a little bit. Beyond that, you're all good.


2008-08-01, 11:18 PM
Thanks for the replies. Ive been working and dead tiered so posting is few and far between.

Im running a series of adventures from goodmen games. The box set is called cult of the dragon. The adventure takes place 20 years after my friends and I end are current campain. Tales of the bloodstone lands. The adventure has the party kill Orcus and Tiamat. My charcter in that campain becomes king. Im going with the gods never truely die aspect but have there power stolen, taken, eatin ala greek myth style. Tiamat was not out right killed because she is a god. The BEBG in the game I'm running now is/was a fallower of Tiamat that is trying to fill the vacume left behind by her defeat. Essentuly he is a demon that is going for god hood by doing two things. Devowering the weakened essence of Tiamat and formenting a cult to gain fallowers. God hood is powered by faith after all. Another motivation of the demon wyrm is vengence on the bloodstone kingdom. Its not because the wyrm loved Tiamat, its demonic evil, its the princaple of the thing. The demon wyrm was harmed in the adventure that wounded Tiamat. I know you would think it wouldnt mind a little pain for a chance to gaine power but hay Im not Homer so thats what I came up with.

Arguskos is right. I want to use the hellfire wyrm because its damn cool and I want to make my party pee there pants.

So fare dumbing down the wyrm or the aspect of Tiamat. That last one sounds damn close to what I want. any clue what MM its in?

2008-08-01, 11:31 PM
So fare dumbing down the wyrm or the aspect of Tiamat. That last one sounds damn close to what I want. any clue what MM its in?

The Aspect of Tiamat was first printed in the Miniatures Handbook at CR 10 or something.

The new version was printed in the Red Hand of Doom adventure as a CR 13 monster, and this version was re-printed in Dragon Magic (since there's a Sorcerer 8 spell that lets you polymorph into one).

Luckily for you, though, if you don't have those books the Aspect was also included in WotC's RHoD Web Enhancement, which you can download HERE (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060217a). :smallbiggrin:

2008-08-01, 11:52 PM
Personally, I suggest the Hellfire Wyrm over the Aspect of Tiamat. Tiamat isn't really that interesting (IMO) of a deity, while the Hellfire Wyrm doesn't get enough love.

As for weakening it somewhat, I suggest you drop the DC's on it's special abilities somewhat, remove it's spell-casting ability, take away a HD or two, and boom. Still a brutal adversary, but tough enough that your players will cringe when they finally meet it.

As to how to fit it into your campaign, just say that the Hellfire Wyrm was a mortal follower of Orcus, and is obsessed with death and undeath. That way, his quest is not to REPLACE Orcus, but rather, to absorb all Orcus' power, and then to sacrifice himself to fuel the rebirth of the demon prince, so the players have to kill the Wyrm before he can absorb all of Orcus' essence. It's an interesting twist I think. :D


2008-08-02, 12:11 AM
Thanks for the help. Im finding your input rather useful.

Killing Tiamat in are other campain was kinda somthing the origional writers of the bloodstone lands tacked on the adventure. My friend who is running it feels that way. We have been playing D&D for 15 years now together so some time we discuss plot. Especialy if its are long standing characters. He gave that part away because it didnt seem to fit with the whole Orcus thing. I guess Ive been destracted by the title of the box set and the conversation invalving Tiamat.

Arguskos thanks for the suggestion. You helped me shake some of the editor monkies off my back for the big evil. This does fit better with what I origionaly had in mind.

Red Hand of Doom sounds cool. I'll check it out. It may fit. The sympole for the cult in my game is a red staned gold dragon hand.

2009-07-05, 12:32 PM
i say just kill them with a dragon liche of tiamat. that would be great....