Magic in the Playground

[Ethrael]

After a few conversations on the LGBT thread and knowing that this is quite an important topic in the Playground, I decided to make a thread for it.


Magic ITP

Here you can discuss and talk about personal and real life experiences of magic or paranormal phenomena, different methods and various sources of practice, magic and the supernatural in the media and many many more things.
A few rules:
Don't discuss whether "it exists" or not. This thread is here for people who believe it exists and want to talk about it.
Try not to bring in science and religion into it where inappropriate or falling under the above category of annoyingess.
Don't advertise various groups or websites. You can talk about them, but don't harrass people by trying to recruite them.

Now, enough of the rules. Onto stories:

I'm not a very strong or prominant user. I dabble mostly, but not too often. What I prefer mostly is a combination of spiritualism, mysticism and dance, not too much like a ritual, not too much like a prayer, but an interesting combination of all.

I haven't been able to do much, so far it has only proved to be more probability and reality changing. For example, I spent a whole day pondering on what a family friend might have to tell us, and eventually came to the conclusion about half-way through the day that she had reached a time in her relationship with her husband where they could have a child. So when I come home, she's glad to tell me that she's pregnant.

It was a weird feeling, especially since I hadn't practiced for a while, mostly just giving myself and those close to me good luck. But it made me feel very happy, as if I had contributed to making a life. :smallsmile:

Lastly, Moderators, if you feel the thread is going somewhere it shouldn't please let us know.

Now, let magic flow within you all!

[FoE]

Yeah, sure, I play Magic. I started back in the days of Alpha. I haven't played a game since Champions of Kamigawa came out, though. :smalltongue:

[Haruki-kun]

Magic... is everywhere. :smalltongue: (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rHhRemvtkpU)

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I... won't go into 'magic' as my opinions have much to do with my religious beliefs. I do however believe in God and a Satan, angels and demons, and between the two I think anything can happen.

I have seen hauntings my whole life, heard fairy music, and witnessed levitation. I've seen the future in dreams that came true and had a miracle or two happen.

Makes me sound weird, neh? But unlike a lot of folks who make things up for the fun of it, the above is true. When I make things up for the fun of it I'll let you know I have. They're usually in the homebrew forums.

Anyways, I've posted stories about various happenings on OOTS over the years. Will have to round them up.

[happyturtle]

My mom and sister are magic, but I'm not. I don't always believe in it, but even when I do, I know I don't have any magic at all. Oh, and my five year old niece is hella magic. She tells us stories about my grandmother who died before she was born.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

One of my friends was sitting in his room, when this random girl walks up the stairs, and disappears. He had never seen this girl in his life, and his mother never saw her go up.

Another of my friends does some pretty accurate tarot. She has a knack. Oh, and she's pagan, if that has anything to do with it. We all love getting our fortunes read by her, because it feels so relaxing, sitting there, watching the cards, there's a slight tingly feeling down your back.

Myself though? I definitely believe in some sort of magic or paranormal or ghosts or whatever. Looking at all the different similar stories from ancient times from places that have never had anything to do with each other, I find it hard not to believe that there is something there, much like aliens. Alien sightings have been relatively consistent in their stories, throughout history.
Edit: Sadly, I have never truly experienced anything truly supernatural though, which makes me sad.

[Calamity]

A lot of my dreams are premonitons. Although I had them a little more than I was younger.

But the thing is, they're all about unimportant events. Like that time I was trying to find a teacher with some guy I didn't even like to get a lunch pass. I dreamt about that before it happened.

Other than that, I guess I'd say I'm not magical. I have a friend who is very interested in magic though (or at least, he was, I think he still is just not as much as he used to be)

[Pinnacle]

I've had premonition dreams before, but they're always useless and I don't realize they're significant before they come true.

The major one involved a storm knocked a facade off the front of a building I was in, blocking the door and killing two people who were trying to come in.

While I was in there, I recalled having a dream several years before (and I was pretty young when it happened, so several years was a very big deal): I was watching a news report (I was way too young for that) about the same thing happening, then I blinked and I was inside the building, then I was back at home watching the news and now terrified, then I was in the building again and several years older--the age I was when it actually came true.


I've also noticed some kind of presence in house I was raised in. Once I was playing when I noticed what appeared to be a small face looking at me from the wall. I yelped and jumped away, then approached and looked; the wood grain in that spot was a darker color, but nothing ominous there. Must've been seeing things.
A long time later, I looked at that spot again and noticed something--there was no spot of darker grain.

The other event involved me standing in front of a shelf when somebody shoved me forward. I thought it was my cousin and turned around to yell at her when a heavy object fell of the shelf and almost hit me. If I hadn't been pushed, it would have.
Nobody believed me that I'd really been pushed when nobody was there, but I felt it before I knew anything was going to fall and before I knew that she wasn't behind me.

[Silence]

I've had my share of strange happenings. Deja' vu', small premonitions, small stuff that could easily been discarded as coincidences or my mind messing with me.

I'm not quite sure what to believe in, but I will share one story.

One night, about a year ago, I woke up to the sound of someone loudly walking around downstairs. Loud enough that it should have woken everyone else up, but it didn't. They didn't hear a thing. I go down, and the moment I thouch the floor on the same level as s/he/it was, the footsteps stop. I hear the scuffling of someone turning around. By then, I locked down that s/he/it was in the room next to me. I assumed it was my dad, or someone, so I turned on the light.

I was the only living soul on that floor. Didn't see a thing.

Weird.

[Flying Elephant]

When I was in... 1-4 grades I used to have the same dreams at the same times, but from different perspectives, as this girl in my class, about this weird world. The one I remember most was when we had a dream about a giant invisible monster in a restaurant. It was running around and causing chaos, and then it got covered in blue, then I threw a bunch of knives and forks at it and it died. It turned out she had had a dream about it to, and had dumped a bucket of blue paint on it.
I'm glad my dreams aren't premonitions, or else I'd be out naked but for a yellow raincoat, or there would be a zombie apocalypse and I'd have stashed my computer monitor in the sink.

[randman22222]

You know, I don't know if this qualifies, but I had a cold sore, a really nasty one at one point, and I was bouncing a tennis ball around with a couple friends because we couldn't think of anything better to do.

I had a random image of the ball bouncing off the ground, and hitting me in my cold sore (on my cheek), and me bleeding - not profusely, but quite nastily - accompanied by a strange feeling that I wasn't gonna get around it.

I didn't. The ball was thrown to me, bounced off the ground, and hit me in the cold sore in the same way it did in the little images in my mind.

I don't know if that's my memory a bit whacked to make things seem to fall into place a bit more coincidentally, or what. Still, nice, graphic story, right?

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Oooh, I've had so much Deja vu! It annoys me so much, because I've had it over the same event, with slight differences, 5 FRICKIN TIMES!

[TheThan]

Do you believe in magic in a young girl's heart
How the music can free her, whenever it starts
And it's magic, if the music is groovy
It makes you feel happy like an old-time movie
I'll tell you about the magic, and it'll free your soul
But it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock and roll

If you believe in magic don't bother to choose
If it's jug band music or rhythm and blues
Just go and listen it'll start with a smile
It won't wipe off your face no matter how hard you try
Your feet start tapping and you can't seem to find
How you got there, so just blow your mind

If you believe in magic, come along with me
We'll dance until morning 'til there's just you and me
And maybe, if the music is right
I'll meet you tomorrow, sort of late at night
And we'll go dancing, baby, then you'll see
How the magic's in the music and the music's in me

Yeah, do you believe in magic
Yeah, believe in the magic of a young girl's soul
Believe in the magic of rock and roll
Believe in the magic that can set you free
Ohh, talking 'bout magic

Do you believe like I believe Do you believe in magic
Do you believe like I believe Do you believe, believer
Do you believe like I believe Do you believe in magic

- the Lovin, Spoonful

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eaqRwFyoGgQ

[Tragic_Comedian]

I read a lot about this sort of thing, and I really don't know. I WANT to believe...

[happyturtle]

I saw my grandmother at my sister's wedding. She had died two years earlier.

I miss her so much. :smallfrown:

[Ganurath]

I saw my grandmother at my sister's wedding. She had died two years earlier.

I miss her so much. :smallfrown:Clearly, you have some magic going for you. It's probably just inconsistent because your belief in it is.

As for me, I've had more than a few experiences, most of which involved my Wiccan friends. The encounter that didn't, though, was from back in elementary school. I saw this little girl dressed in white on a white tricycle while I was riding my bike in a neighborhood that was under construction. Roads were down and no houses were up, so the only break in the sightlines were caused by hills. She was wearing what I now recognize as attire from the 1920s, but at the time I just thought it looked weird so I peddled up after her as she slipped over the top of the hill. When I got to the top, a car came at me out of nowhere and nearly ran me over. While the driver got off his phone and took off his sunglasses to nag me for not looking where I was going, I looked around to see where the girl went. Nobody but me and the driver over a distance of five blocks in any direction, save the steep uphill to my house. Given how I was a few seconds behind her, there's no way she could have scaled the hill before I arrived.

[happyturtle]

Clearly, you have some magic going for you. It's probably just inconsistent because your belief in it is.



I always figured that was all grandmother's doing. :smallconfused:

If I had any magic, I'd want to learn how to make a psychic shield. Because I absorb the moods around me, which can be overwhelming.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Ah, happyturtle, being an empath can be fun!

Anyways, I don't know exactly what I believe. I'm fairly certain my dorm room from University of Arkansas was haunted, as things got tossed around my room while I tried to sleep and noone else was present.
I used to also see crosses bleeding when I was little >>

However, I tend to be quite the skeptic most of the time.

[happyturtle]

Aren't you supposed to be in the hospital now? :smallconfused:

[Ganurath]

I always figured that was all grandmother's doing. :smallconfused:

If I had any magic, I'd want to learn how to make a psychic shield. Because I absorb the moods around me, which can be overwhelming.Perhaps trying to drop a hint?

[RabbitHoleLost]

Aren't you supposed to be in the hospital now? :smallconfused:

:: points to the Depression thread::
Nah, seems I just have a super bad bladder infection and a possible ovarian cyst.

[happyturtle]

Owieowieowieowie... but I guess it's better than needing an operatons.

[Ego Slayer]

Innnnnteresting.

I used to keep a list of deja vu when I was 12 or so because they happened so often and it kind of freaked me out.

I've had a couple 'future telling' dreams, except the last one involved boomerangs (c'mon, who the hell randomly dreams of those?!) and the next morning (Friday) I read xkcd... which just HAPPENED to be the new strip... "I'm not good with boomerangs." (http://xkcd.com/445/) o.o; That really freaked me out. :smallconfused:

WTF! Is that not like... uber-useless, or what? :smalltongue:

One weird thing I do fairly often is have the tv/radio/song on and be reading something and read the same word at the exact same time it's said on the tv/radio/song. I had a list of words somewhere, because it happened on a regular basis for awhile.

Anyway, I pretty much consider anything weird a coincidence (I'ma science girl), but sometimes something is just toooooo weird. Though, I would like to think that somewhere, somehow there's an "in tune"-ness one can have with the world.

[Jibar]

Anyways, I've posted stories about various happenings on OOTS over the years. Will have to round them up.

Yay. I love these stories.
Terrify the Hell outta me, but oh well. It's not like I can sleep without horrifying trauma inducing nightmares anyway.
Oh how I wish I was kidding.

[Bitzeralisis]

Magic will manifest itself in December, 2012.

Then I shall gather up the mystical arcana revealed and take over the world.

:smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

[Player_Zero]

I am a great magician!

Your clothes are red!

[Pyro]

I used to believe in ghosts and I guess I still do, but in a much different way. Now it's more scientific than supernatural to me. In fact I believe everything has a scientific explanation to it. Don't they say "Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from technology". Well I feel the same about the super natural.

Of course that doesn't mean you have to. Carry on

[Shademan]

i got a ye olde norwegian spell.
if someone bothers you and wont go away, place a kneecap in their groin and watch them fall to the ground.
...
not funny? well the REAL norwegian spells are about farting in peoples keyholes and running around their house to make their curtains catch fire!
i am NOT making that up.

[Collin152]

Magic will manifest itself in December, 2012.

Then I shall gather up the mystical arcana revealed and take over the world.

:smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

Cramping my style, neophyte.

Behold! I make my presence known.
'sup?

So, magic and I have been tight for ages. I've had precognitive visions since gradeschool, wherein I predicted a few explosions that made the headlines the next day.
I've been able to persuade people to agree with me through sheer will.
I can make people think what I want them to.
Because of that, people have always acclaimed me as beign so much smarter than I really am.

I've found, however, that my magic is not much use for helping myself. I can impair my own situation, or anybody elses, but I can only help others. So when I want to do osmething selfish, I have to go about it in a circular manner, help someone else by helping myself.

Oh, and I can mesmerise the weak minded. I've had this talent for ages. Small children crying at church, abolutley screaming. I look at them, they just stop moving, until I look away. Now, osme children would do that with anybody payign attention to them, but then there are the ones too distraught with whatever is bothering them to see anything, and I'm the only one what can calm them.
I've kinda lost that talent now that I've ventured into more malicious endeavours, though. I got a bit of a tainted aura, you see.

Well, that should suffice for now.

[DrowVampyre]

I used to have precognitive dreams all the time, and I still do to an extent, but like others have said, mine are always about inconsequential things. Never manage to dream the winning lotto numbers...

I do believe in magic, though. I've seen and experienced too many "supernatural" things not to. I don't believe it's truly supernatural, however, just that we don't know the rules for it yet (as a whole, anyway). So just like electricity or nuclear physics, once we figure out the rules of it, it'll be as natural as...well, electricity or nuclear physics. That said...I wish I knew a few of the rules, at least. I'd love to be able to work magic, especially magic with physical results. Being stuck in the wrong body...sucks... :smallfrown:

[GoC]

While I do not believe in "magic" (and my own views on the subject would violate both politeness and the OPs rules, if you want to be insulted then PM me) I've seen missionaries do some pretty weird stuff.
Knocking people over from a distance appears to be a classic for them (seen some friends of mine knocked over like bowling pins from 20ft away). As does supernatural persuasion. Weird jedi/cristian powers which I'm for some reason immune to...:smallconfused:

btw: I had hoped this would be about stage magic which I really enjoy.:smallfrown:

[Collin152]

Oh, and my house has a poltergeist.
And I'm no good at getting rid of spirits, I can only draw them in.
Advice? ANybody?

[happyturtle]

Ask them nicely to leave?

[Hoplite]

I don't know what it was, but I have seen strange drawings of winged stick0figures that had suddenly appeared in the schoolbooks of a friend of mine. They were drawn with ink and no one had interfered, or at least that is what we think/thought.

I do not believe in magic, but I can't explain it.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Ask them nicely to leave?

That is the number one way to get rid of unwanted spirits, ya know.

[Shademan]

its strange really, i come from a LONG line of reasoners. my family have always been rational people, but everyone refuses to deny the existence of ... unusual things.

then again many people in my family have had experiences.
hurm... i'll be needing sleep soon. just wanna say that i BELIEVE.
since that appears to be on the topic now.

to drive away ghosts and stuff, the medieval way: dont wash yourself.
im not kidding. that is what medieval lore says! oh, and try to throw your knife over it.

[Dallas-Dakota]

My health is haunted.

Just like Bor´s is. :smalltongue:

[Austran]

I can make a rubber band teleport from two fingers to other two fingers in the same hand, just with a small shake. That's true, I swear!

[Thanatos 51-50]

to drive away ghosts and stuff, the medieval way: dont wash yourself.
im not kidding. that is what medieval lore says! oh, and try to throw your knife over it.

You also have too consider the source of mideval lore.
Also, not washing oneself might be bad for one's... I dunno, life in general, not just "OOOh! My house has a poltergiest!" problems.

Throwing the knife, I've never heard of before, but a few more anti-spirit measures I have heard of include salt.
Not the ionized stuff you buy from the store, if at all possible, use something you had a hand in making. Sea salt is the easiest to acquire - just dry out a glass of seawater.

I'm also told that various occult stores sell very large tubes of salt for pretty cheap.
Plus, salt supposedly works well for your circles if you use 'im. (I don't, actually, I'm very not safe.)

[Collin152]

Sea salt is the easiest to acquire - just dry out a glass of seawater.


Alright, I'll just pop on down to my local ocean. Seeing ow I don't live in a desert or anything.
I do have 75 pounds of salt, though.
And I just found my use for it.

[Shademan]

it has been a classic Nordic way of dealing with supernatural stuff.
when you encounter something dark and brooding in the cold summer nights you throw your steel (knife) over it and run like hell. the next day yeh shall fetch yer knife.
and hopefully you wont find it stuck to some pedestrians head...

hey, i forgot last post: freaky thing i have experienced: ive seen a human shadow in a place it shouldnt have been. at all. it moved also. after that i ran like friggin 'ell... to this day im convinced that it was something... something.

[happyturtle]

My freaky encounter: One Halloween night I was walking the dog, and she started barking wildly at a very specific piece of thin air. Didn't stop until I dragged her inside.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Alright, I'll just pop on down to my local ocean. Seeing ow I don't live in a desert or anything.


Seeing how I've lived near the Ocean my Entire Life.

Oops, sorry. :smallredface:

[Lex-Kat]

I have precognitive dreams/knowledge. But only once has it been at all useful, but in a bad way.

When I was nine, I was over at my friends house playing with his transformers. When his mom wondered out loud, where his dad was, he was two hours late. She sent me home, because it was time for their supper.

As I went home, I knew that Frank (the dad) was dead. I even told my mom that he was dead, that he'd had an accident.

I was going to a bible camp the next week. While I was there, I got a letter from my mom telling me that they'd found Frank. He'd fallen asleep at the wheel while driving home and smashed into another truck, parked on the side of the highway. He'd died instantly.

Another, less significant example is when my mother's friend and neighbor came over hysterical. She didn't know where her son "Jacob" was. Before my mom could tell her, I said he was at K-Mart. Mom just looked at me said, "He's right. How did you know?" I just shrugged. I didn't know that I knew.

Also, when I know someone pretty good, and were close together (for instance, the same car), I can hear whispers of their thoughts. Not necessarily read their minds, just the surface thoughts.

So the conversation will be:
Me: "What?"
Friend: "I didn't say anything."
Me: No, you just asked if I'd change the CD.
Friend: Wow, I was just thinking that. Are reading my mind or what?
Silence.

As for the freakiest thing to ever happen (other than knowing my friend's dad was dead). I was playing with my sisters cat. She loved chasing after balls of tinfoil. I'd throw it into the next room, and she'd bring it back for me to throw (weird, huh?). After doing this about ten times, suddenly she stopped in mid-chase, looked straight at me, and started hissing at me like I'd suddenly changed into something evil. I don't what it was that made her do that. After about 5 seconds, my sister stomped at her and scared her away. She came back later, and was my friend again. Like nothing had happened.

I do believe in magic, by the way.

[Collin152]

The problem with precognition is determining whether you saw the event or caused it.
It makes for differant kinds of guilt for when things go bad.

Incidentally? I'd like anyone with a degree of magical ability here to help me out. I'm gunna try something fairly high-end, and I'm afraid I won't be able to get it off the ground. Whatver means you go about it doesn't matter so much, I just need your support.

If you'd like the combination of herbs I would use to aid someone elses magic, it follows:
Anise, Allspice, Basil, and grated lemon peel, mixed into a powder.
I don't have an incantation for this...


Hmm... I rely too much on the power of nature to fuel my spells. I'm getting lazy.

[Tempest Fennac]

Being empathic can be really annoying (I tend to get hurt due to hearing about painful things happening to other people). Do you know how to ground yourself, happyturtle? If you don't, stand up and imagine roots extending from the soles of your feet into the floor while a protective bubble surrounds you. Doing this barefoot outside on plain soil (or grass if there isn't any soil) while visualising that you're absorbing energy through the roots can help if you're feeling unwell as well.

I know animals are often more sensitive to ghosts; my grandparents once had a German Shepherd who was ignoring a news program untill something about a haunted house came on. Once the feature was finished, he stopped watching the program. I often get a sence of deja vu as well (it annoys me). Unless Reiki could help you, I can't really provide any assistance, Collin.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Alternate grounding method: Use a centering meditation. Also, wear a lesson stone, you'll ground yourself quick and instinctually, especially if you're the type to project negetives alot.

In all honesty, theres a million and a half grounding techiques out there, I imagine the energy as a gas the diffuses from the soles of my feet, usually through my boots and into the ground or atmosphere, to be broken into insignifcant chunks through mixing with the wind or soil.

I also find adrenilin or endorphin rushes work wonders.

RE: Collin:
Sorry, but all the magic I ever due is massed rituals (which I don't do often), and thats just lending energy. Theres no way I'd volunteer to help you without knowing exactly what you were doing. And I mean exactly.
Also, don't knock Nature. She be powerful and scary.

RE: Precog dreams:
I used to get those. A lot. To this day, if I can remember a dream upon waking, it was usually precognitive. I very rarely remember dreams, now.
Apparantly, I do a fair bit of dreamwalking/dream transferrance, but never intentionally, which makes it kind of scary. :smalleek:

RE: Empathy:
My empathy has never really bothered me unless I'm in a very crowded area for a time. Couple this with living in Japan, and I've been bothered a bit in recent years, especially on trips to Tokyo.
... I think that about covers all the subjects currently being discussed
*Nods*
I have nothing new to add to the cauldron.

[happyturtle]

Alternate grounding method: Use a centering meditation. Also, wear a lesson stone, you'll ground yourself quick and instinctually, especially if you're the type to project negetives alot.



What's a lesson stone?

I don't project though, I absorb. Especially from magical people. I can absorb my mum from the other side of the world, even if we're busy in our own lives and not directly communicating.

I get overstimulated in crowds, to the point where after an office refurb, when they moved all the desks closer together, I started having panic attacks and had to be put in an out of the way corner. It was a real challenge for me, learning to live in England after being used to the spaciousness of the States. I suspect Japan would be beyond my coping abilities.

[Totally Guy]

I'm extremely skeptical about all this because I had a friend that "did magic" and when I told him I was skeptical he reacted differently.

Eventually my "Aura went bad" and so he wouldn't hang out with me any more. I was willing to accept this difference but no, aura bad now.

Too much buffy.

[Shademan]

now that ive had some sleep my mind and brain is clearer and i can remember more freaky stuff.
well i once had mayor problems finding obi wan in a starwars game, and theni had a dream about what cave he was in and...there he was! thats actually just funny.


also, i have many times predicted the return of old shows on TV. remember Tintin? well that hadnt run on norwegian tv for AGES and one day i just couldnt stop thinking that it was actually running. when i got home i turned on the tv and guess what was on? yeah.
has happened several times after that. not exactly something to impress them necromancers with but hey!

[Tempest Fennac]

I've never heard of Lesson Stone either. I absorb energy, so I'll consider getting some (thanks for the tip about it).

[Nychta]

I have weird dreams too.

I have dreams in which something happens, I wake up, remember it vivdly, decide to write it down, forget it as soon as my pen touches the paper. It's there, still in my head somewhere, but I've completely forgotten it.
Then ages later, something will happen, and I'll remember that it was exactly as I saw it in the dream. It's often with people that I haven't ever met before.

I don't know the name for it, but it happened a lot in Europe.

[randman22222]

I've had a strange dream last night, but only the setting of it is strange.
Strange because it's a house, on a cliff, and I keep having dreams which take place in this house, even though the house is fictional (so far as I know).


The house is in what appear to be thickly wooded foothills, with fjords where the foothills enter the water. One foothill drops off on one side into the water, and the vegetation is much sparser, because of the steepness. On this foothill is a house, partially built over the cliff. It's an effing awesome house. It's got a sort of central courtyard, which has no roof, and in the center is a sort of water feature, that looks like a moat, and on the other side of the moat is a kitchen. Surrounding the courtyard are all the other rooms. One room is really cool because it's built over a man-made waterfall, which is built into the cliff. You have to cross a rope bridge to get to it.

The house's decor changes every time I dream it, but the layout remains the same. Today it was really modern-looking, with really big, curtained windows in place of most walling. Last time it was oriental style, and my room was the little cliff hut thing built over the man-made waterfall.

I don't know anything about magic, but recurring dreams are fun. :smallsmile:
Except my recurring nightmares. Those aren't.

[Nychta]

I don't know anything about magic, but recurring dreams are fun. :smallsmile:
Except my recurring nightmares. Those aren't.

*smacks head* I fully forgot about my recurring dreams.

Mine are like in a parallel universe, where I'm pretty much the same, and I know all the same people, but they all act weird and different.

Also, recurring nightmares suck.

[happyturtle]

I have lots of recurring dreamscapes. There's the giant maze of a high school (hate that one... I'm always getting lost on the way to class where I have to take an exam I haven't studied for--I've been out of school for nearly 15 years! Why? Why?!) and the giant post-apocalyptic parking garage, and the giant house where I still live with my parents and siblings even though I'm married in the dream.

My favourite dreams are story dreams. Those are where I'm lucid dreaming, but only to the point where I can edit the dream to make the story better. "Hmm.. that scene would have been much more dramatic if the gunmen turned up earlier. Lets try that again."

[Tempest Fennac]

My zombie apokalypse dreams aren't identicle (they are always different). Someone said I probably have them due to playing a lot of video games. That doesn't explain why my dreams often cause physical pain, though (unless they are really happening on another plane of existance).

[Shademan]

Mine are like in a parallel universe, where I'm pretty much the same, and I know all the same people, but they all act weird and different.


same things happen with me.

when im awake i dont remember much about my "dreamworld" but when i am there, to put it that way, i remember everything ive ever done there... even people ive met there...

[Ego Slayer]

Also, recurring nightmares suck.
Most definitely.
I had one recurring dream, I think, when I was young. It's all too vague now to ever explain, but the only part of it remember the most was the real nightmarish part. Multiple... somethings, huge, tall, black. I was on the ground walking through them. Somehow they were important, and I only felt fear. Like they were the ultimate fear, or something so incomprehensible that they projected fear. I still wish I knew what they were.

[randman22222]

You know, I've got some ancient memory in my head that refuses to go. And it's a little unsettling. And nightmarish.

In the memory, I'm in a room which is impossibly large. To the point that I can't see the walls. There are babies lying on the floor, regularly spaced from one another as far as I can see. The memory is from the viewpoint of one of the babies. On the ceiling, are strange aluminum-looking devices, tapered cylindrical, with insect leg looking attachments at their sides, coming down to a little spout at the end of them.

This spout occasionally drips down some custard-coloured substance that has about the same consistency onto, or near one of the babies. These weird devices are positioned almost directly above each baby.

Oh, and everything aside form the babies is some shade of grey.

It's an unsettling memory, and I don't know where it comes from. A movie, or dream, maybe. I've had it as long as I can remember...

Wait... magic thread.

[Moff Chumley]

I am kind of fatalistic: to me, time is all happening at once, with the beginning and end happening simultaneously. Everything in the universe moves inevitably through time, separate yet tied to it. Sometimes, I suppose people catch glimpses of other moments in time, as after all, it's all happening in the same moment. I sometimes have premonitions of events moments into the future, for instance, reaching for the phone and saying "Hello, such and such" before it rings, but I haven't seen into the past ever. Other times, I can successfully guess facts that I had no way of knowing.

I'm also pretty empathetic (unfortunately, only to negative emotion), which can get overwhelming, but I don't really think that has any mystical elements to it. I also go into some pretty funny states while listening to or playing music.

[Ethrael]

Phew! I finally got on.

There seem to be looaads of precognitive dreams and stuff going on with the Playgrounders. Some of which are kinda freaky... But then again there always was a horror element to Magic. As for me, I haven't had recurring nightmares/dreams that much, nor precognitive feelings/other stuff. But my mum has, she had a dream where my sister, her and I were on a boat that was sinking and the next day there was news of a boat that sank in the Mediterranean.

@Collin, I'm afraid I can't do much without knowing exactly what the poltergeist has done to you and everything you know about it. For now I can mostly boost your chances, to what extent I don't know, but I haven't used much for the past few days so I've built up some reserves. Just tell me what time you plan on confronting it. Also, regarding using Nature, you'll have to ask permission first, which I could help too. I have had some encounters with her forces.

Lastly, on the more media side, could anyone explain to me the magical logic behind the wands in HP 7? I tried reading it over and over and I only understood marginally for a few seconds. Now that I've forgotten most of the book too, I can't make sense.

[Collin152]

Thank you, Ethrael, I plan to act on the night of the New Moon, so I'll get back to you.

Now, I just remembered another thing:
I can consistantly predict TV shows I like.
See, I never watch their little "next episode of!" things, I just turn on the TV when it's time for the program.
Things like The Simpsons, Seinfeld, you know?

Earlier that day, I will quote a particular episode frequently, or refrence it, or maybe just be thinking about it.
Once, I went online and reda the transcript because there was a line I wanted to learn better.
And then, surprise of all surprises, it's on that night.

Precognative-nondream?
Or probability manipulation?
You decide!

[happyturtle]

I have to say, that's about the most useless superpower I can think of. I mean, even Aquaman can top that. :smalltongue:

[Collin152]

I have to say, that's about the most useless superpower I can think of. I mean, even Aquaman can top that. :smalltongue:

For not even thinking about it, it's pretty good.
I mean, imagine if I can direct it to useful things?
Sides, Aquaman can swim all he wants, but he can't replace TV Guide.

[happyturtle]

For not even thinking about it, it's pretty good.
I mean, imagine if I can direct it to useful things?
Sides, Aquaman can swim all he wants, but he can't replace TV Guide.

But it only works on reruns. I mean, who cares when they come on?

[ChickenDancer]

Magic will manifest itself in December, 2012.

Then I shall gather up the mystical arcana revealed and take over the world.

:smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

Oh... wow. I've started having strange fantasies about December, 2012 recently and began writing a story about it... Some sort of World Wide Cataclysm followed by the survivors developing mystical abilities.

I'm slightly empathic myself. My mood is entirely dependent on the moods of people around me, and when I'm all alone I feel empty like there is something physically missing.

[Wizard of the Coat]

I'm not sure about magic... I can't help but rationalise everything, but on the other hand I've had my fair share of weird moments...premonitions, strange sightings, limited predicting/sensing the actions/reactions/words/feelings of others and such.

Still the thing that troubles me most is what lies on the edge of my vision or actually just beyond it, something I only see when I'm alone and all the lights go dark. Feral shapes and faces, eyes staring, yet always slipping away into the void when I command them to mentally, generating a feeling not unlike rage to overpower them.

The interesting thing is that I seem to lose these 'haunts' whenever I move to a new place only for them to reappear after a certain while. Holidays can be a blessing.

I'm wondering are these just figments of my immagination, drawn from the primitive hunter gatherer brain that is fearfull of predators in the dark, or is this something more people have encountered?


I'm slightly empathic myself. My mood is entirely dependent on the moods of people around me, and when I'm all alone I feel empty like there is something physically missing.

Similar feeling, except that something seems to want to fill that void...

[Destro_Yersul]

Does having a rather large amount of luck count?

Story: At my Dry Grad party, we had a few luck based things. Casino, draws, all that stuff. Anyways, at one point we were all looking at the draw prizes. Things like 5 hamburgers from McDonalds, oil changes, that kind of thing. Some of them were nicer though. Anyways, I said "hey, they have football tickets. Wouldn't it be cool if I won those?" I did. Later on, they were having the draws for the big prizes. Cameras and the like. I spent a lot of time thinking it would be really cool if I won the portable DvD player. I did.

Oh, and earlier that day, when I was playing roulette (fake money) I decided to put a bunch on 0 and 00 just because. 00 came up.

Unfortunately, my luck has yet to extend to lottery tickets. I wish it would, because then I wouldn't need a job, but I don't expect it to happen. Still, it's nice to dream.

[Collin152]

Thank you, Ethrael, I plan to act on the night of the New Moon, so I'll get back to you.


Oh, Glayven!
That's tonight, If I'm not very much mistaken!
Tonight at Midnight, that poltergeist goes down!

[Kneenibble]

If you mean New Moon in the astronomical sense, it was Friday.

[Collin152]

If you mean New Moon in the astronomical sense, it was Friday.

Blast! Must wait an entire lunar cycle for maximum effect.

[happyturtle]

Blast! Must wait an entire lunar cycle for maximum effect.

See, you're really going to have to reclaim your time machine.

[captain_decadence]

I'm not sure how I feel about magic/psychic powers but I've had some experience with them.

I've had one out of body experience while knocked-out (literally) as a child. But, I also realize that it may be my reconstruction of events as they were told to me by my relatives.

I am an empath, at least to a small degree, and so is my mom. She insists that it's due to her training as a counselor and many years of experience but I don't have that (well, some training but not tons) and we have similar abilities. I also feel that I am being...assaulted sometimes in crowds, like the minds around me are filling me up and pushing out my ability to think. The thing is, it doesn't always happen so I'm not sure what that means.

In terms of magic, I have my own faith that has its mystical tradition (as does every major religion if you just do a cursory search(no really, I can name them for almost every major religion)) but I have practiced ritual that fall outside the scope of my faith's official beliefs.

I also feel that there are some places that are "places of power" but it's very hard to explain. Most people would say that the places of power they know are places of nature but I usually feel them in religious buildings, places where people are concentrated on one thing, or places where emotions have been particularly strong. Not that this power is always good, I've walked into places and felt violated by the very essence of the place but usually it seems benign. Neither good nor evil.

[Myatar_Panwar]

I am really not sure if magic exists or not. I mean, how can anyone be sure of anything? To be overly sure that magic does not exist because science (yeah, something made by the imperfect man) says otherwise is to be ignorant, and to be overly sure that it exists because you saw something is to be a bit too hopeful.

I am sure that if magic does exists, it will always be so inconsistant and surprising, to the point where it makes you question coincidences and your own sanity. To the point of never being proven. So basically, I don't believe in fortune tellers (because they say they can use magic readily), but I might believe in random dreams that speak the future, or miricles. Because they are unexpected and you cant use them to your own advantage.

If some people could actually use magic whenever they wanted to, then this world would be so much different.

[pendell]

http://paganandchristianmoot.co.uk/pcvbforum/

I'd be happy to have a discussion about magic there. I believe in it.
Problem is, to my mind magic is inseperable from spirituality is
inseparable from religion.

There really has never been such a thing as a 'magician' a la the D&D
magician. The ancient Magi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi) were priests
of the ancient pre-Islamic Iranian religion. Likewise, the Egyptian 'magicians' -- famous
from the Bible -- were actually priests of the Egyptian deities. In Wicca today, magic is a part of the religion but by no means all of it. For some, perhaps not even much of it.

The only magicians I can think of that aren't religious in some way are the ceremonial types like the Golden Dawn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn) or the Chaos magic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic) types. And there's historical people like John Dee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dee_%28mathematician%29). But they are a minority.

Find me a magical tradition; I'll show you a religious tradition.

A *quick* observation that I hope doesn't get me in trouble. Magic seems to me to be inseparable from polytheism . Find me a monotheistic religion in the world that doesn't condemn it. Find me a polytheist religion that doesn't have some tradition of it.

Why would this be? Ah ... that would be telling. Come over to the link and I'll be happy to argue at length. It's intended to be neutral ground between Pagans and Christians, started by a pagan shaman whose wife converted to Christianity.

But I don't think I could reasonably have an intelligent discussion of magic without getting religious, so I extend the invitation to any who are interest. We need more people, anyway :).

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[ImperialGolem]

I'm not sure I believe in magic, but... stuff happens.

I do have empathy. It doesn't work in groups, but it does work when there are a few people (I think I'm just good at reading body language, though). I do almost have a telepathic ability, but it is again probably just me guessing.

I have some good precognition. I can guess well, and I know good ideas from bad ones. This is probably just my intellect working, though.

Only one that I can't explain would be my luck. If I desire something to happen, it very often will. When bad things happen to other people, I somehow avoid it. For example, this one time I forgot to bring a major part of my homework, a power point. Guess what? The teacher had to delay the presentations due to mechanical errors (she didn't know about me forgetting it until after the announcement...)

So yeah. I wish this stuff existed.

[Collin152]

So yeah. I wish this stuff existed.

I think you mean, you hope this stuff exists.
One is more certain of its inexistance than the other.

[Ethrael]

Thank you, Ethrael, I plan to act on the night of the New Moon, so I'll get back to you.

Wait, it was a New Moon two days ago? Didn't look like it here...

But anyways, I could probably position the upsurge of luck for the next new moon, by getting it to you via the moon. Might be a bit less unsure though. I'll PM you with the details.

[Tempest Fennac]

I thought it wa sa new moon now going by Phase's avatar.

[randman22222]

I'm not sure he really follows the RL phases... And aren't phases different depending on where in the world you are?

[Tempest Fennac]

I'm not honestly sure. I checked it a while back for a website which has the Moon's phases on it and it matched up.

[Ethrael]

They probably are, it's like a half moon here in Greece....

Now I'm confused. When's the next new moon for you, Collin?

[Volug]

Well if I c*silence*

[Kaelaroth]

Yeah. I beleive in the paranormal, the wacky, the weird. Despite being a bar-code droog, my ability to perform more than mere ultraviolence has occasionally kicked in. Curses are my specialty.

And I'm a big fan of the whole medieval grimoire dealy, possessing both signs of Astaroth and Solomon, both powerful binds in their own right. What's your speciality, guys and gals? Neo-Romantic Paganism? Pre-Baroque Demonology? Oh, and, ImperialGolem, be careful what you wish for. :smalltongue:

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Speaking of empathy, I feel empathic pain. With inanimate objects as well. Which sucks.

"Oh damn, I dropped my violin! Argh, my arm!"

I also had recurring dreams (and nightmares), when I was young.
There was this one dream where I can't remember how it started, but it ended up with me in this huge cathedral shaped room, long, thin, with a really high peaked cieling, and not lit, with no windows. I think to my self, 'Oh @*$', because I know what's going to happen.
This huge hand descends, and picks me up, and flails me around. I know I'm sleeping, and I try to wake up. I can feel my eyes are closed, by I can't open them. I'm trying to scream, but I can't. I'm frozen, effectively.
Which is weird, cause in real life, I don't freeze up when I panic, but suddenly become very come...

The other recurring dream was much more benign. It's merely me wandering about my grandparents place, except it's a different house, full of wierd stairs, and corridors and stuff.

Now, whenever I have a nightmare, I know exactly where to wake up, and how.
I used to wake up by screaming. And I knew that if I screamed, I would wake up. Now, I can just think 'Ok, wakey time!'.
Whenever it is just about to turn scary, I know, for several reasons.
A) Dark music starts playing.
B) It's because of something I say. I will say something, and that will trigger the nightmare.
C) Foreboding. I know that this is going to turn into a nightmare if I do such and such, but I must do such and such, or else it won't turn into a nightmare, and it needs to be a nightmare...
D) I've had a dream very much like this before, and it went this way, so...

[Collin152]

New moon on the 30th.

What's your speciality, guys and gals?

I specialise in spirits, herbs, and signs.

I'm also good at helpingothers, but only in that it is so much harder to help myself.
I mostly go about it in a loop-hole exploiting, roundabout way- selfish spells cast by helping others in such a way to also help myself.

[Hannes]

Magic. Heh. You just gotta make yourself believe. Under yourself I don't mean your conscious, though.

Nothing is real, everything is permitted, as they say.

I have made one spell in my life. Successful. After that, though, I haven't felt want or need to do any more.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I have to say, that's about the most useless superpower I can think of. I mean, even Aquaman can top that. :smalltongue:

Hey, Aquaman has unlimited waterbreathing, unlimited speak with animals (Marine life only), and even more importantly - and alot of people forget this:
Super-Strength. Alot of superheros have been built on nothing but Super-strength.

Don't knock Aquaman. I actually like Aquaman.

Specialization: er...
Lore and study, I guess. As I said earlier, I don't really practice much/at all.

I prefer to take mundane pathways, drawing on magic seems... I don't know, almost like running to Mommy and Daddy every time you skin a knee.

[Ethrael]

New moon on the 30th

Well that's a while away... How about the August full moon on the 16th? That's a big celebration here in Greece, we're almost Pagan. It's powerful for love mostly but I'm pretty sure it'll do the trick for this too...

My specialty? Something between probability warping and reality warping. Also a liiiitttle tiny bit of elemental empathy and control.

I haven't actually explained where I think I get this from, and that's because I'm not sure. I don't think it's the usual "Magic" source, it would be more of the D&D "divine" type, taking it from the world around you than yourself. I've tried feeling for the source of it but then I got a headache for a few days... But then again, I'm still not sure.

[Ganurath]

What's your speciality, guys and gals? Neo-Romantic Paganism? Pre-Baroque Demonology?I've gone off what information I've managed to snip out of my Wiccan friends (mainly those still learning that, like me, don't see the harm in me having the knowledge.) If you mean that as far as abilities go... I'd have to say eating. One time one of my friends transferred some excess energy into me to give me a feel for the stuff of spellcasting. It felt like fire was flowing up my arms and into my torso. I focused on holding it in, and it went in... So deep it was gone. Either it was because of the hole in my chest or I just did it wrong, but it felt like it drained into me.

[ghost_warlock]

If some people could actually use magic whenever they wanted to, then this world would be so much different.

Personally, I feel a world with magic would be terrifying. I mean, what if people could actually annihilate people with fireballs because they got cut off in traffic? I know I'm not the only person who has fantacised about that sort of thing. People can't even handle handguns, imagine if they had instant access to balls of fire or could call down bolts of lightning on people simply because they were pissed off at them.

Or, cutting out the flashy stuff, what if people actually could influence the probabilities in my life more-or-less on a whim because they wanted to win the lottery? How would that work? Would the 'right' numbers suddenly change? What about the poor sucker who was 'supposed' to win (actually had the original 'right' numbers)? Or, say you want a certain boy/girl to notice you so you cast a little spell on him/her to make him/her want to talk to you and be inclined to go along with what you want to a degree. Nevermind that I've spent the last week working up the courage to talk to him/her and ask him/her out.

When it comes to relationships, I feel life would be unimaginatively scary and horrible if people could actually cast charms and influence the behavior of other people with love potions and the like. Date rape drugs are bad enough, IRL, imagine the abuses commited if all people had to do was rub together some herbs and say a few lines of poetry and then someone suddenly fell head-over-heels in love with them, even if only for a little while. Lives/relationships could be ruined in a heartbeat.

If only certain people had access to magic, the world would be a very different place. Might makes right, but we'd simply trump mundane forms of might (money, influence, physical prowess, etc.) with the supernatural. Most forms of power in real life can be obtained if you work for them (not all, mind you, and some are unavailable to some people but overall everyone typically has access to some form of power). Magic is the 'I win' power card because in the simple things described in this thread and others, it can grant access to any other form of power in exchange for varying costs - usually practically negligible compared to the gains 'earned.'

[pendell]

Ghost_warlock:



What about the poor sucker who was 'supposed' to win (actually had the original 'right' numbers)?


Define 'supposed to'.

'Supposed to' by whom? By 'fate'? How does Fate make that determination? And if you successfully persuade fate that you need it more than whomever would have got the original roll, is that your fault?

I use 'persuade' because we're talking about an intellect or whatsoever that can dialogue with humans and is amenable to persuasion. What if there is no such intelligence? What if it's all just blind force and chance ? If that is the case, then there is no such thing as 'supposed to', is there?

Two points as to your remaining discussion:

1) You're assuming that 'normal' humans are defenseless against magic.

Yet if you look at the traditions and superstitions of the world, you'll see that most of them contain charms, amulets, prayer or spells by ordinary people against just such things. The 'Shield of St. Patrick' (http://www.scborromeo.org/prayers/patrick.htm) being just one such example.

Even there .. I once had a discussion with a Wiccan high priest on the use of magic to influence sporting events. He told me that's much harder to achieve than you might think, because the natural self-confidence of athletes tends to greatly detract from the effectiveness of spells directed against them. Magic assumes that human will has meaning, after all.

In fact, here's a question for those magic folks who are familiar with American football -- I sometimes wonder if cheerleading doesn't comprise a form of folk magic. Cause what you've got is a band of people whose sole purpose is to get the crowd excited (is this a form of 'raising energy'? ) and get them focused on a single goal -- calling for victory for their team.


2) You're assuming that humans are the only magical actors in the supernatural world.

Very few -- very few indeed -- magic-users of my acquaintance will say that is true. There are all kinds of things out there, and some of them Take Notice if you step onto their turf. And sooner or later, the bill for everything done magically comes due.

There's a *reason* why many skilled magic-users use magic as a last resort, only after all purely natural methods have been exhausted.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ilena]

Well, i am really suprised about how many people have precon abilities, myself i am one of them, as like alot of people here, mine are just random little things, but something that was mentioned here, dec 2012, someone mentioned a day of magic returning (i think they were joking ....) but ive had a feeling that i am going to die when im 25 years old, i am 21 right now and my birthday is in feb ... that leaves alot of moneys when ill be 25 in 2012 ... i hope im wrong but i have a solid feelin that something isnt right with that year (also happens to be the end of the myan calander ... and ive talked to several other people and they have said the same thing that in 4 years they have a bad feelin ... anyone else have this?

[Kaelaroth]

2012 is the London Olympics. I have some bad feelings about that?

[Ilena]

Who knows, i dont trust that year though :P

[pendell]

Who knows, i dont trust that year though :P

Crixon,

Once upon a time there was a person who had a dream of a gas tank going 'empty' in February 1994. That person assumed she would die in February 1994.

What happened to her in Feb 1994 to the day? She *moved*. She moved from the county in California she'd lived in for 30 years to Virginia, far away.

It was the end of her life *in a sense*, but it was also the beginning of another.

My point: It's usually unwise to read too much into a future vision or such like. It doesn't always turn out the way you think, and even if it does, the journey from point A to B can sometimes be really strange.

Example: Joseph in the Bible. He saw his brothers bowing down to him. That must have seemed silly for the X years he spent in jail, but the dream came true nonetheless.

My advice is not to worry about it. To get on with your life and be happy. Make whatever provisions you feel you need to for the afterlife, yes, but sometimes it's best to wait for things to come to pass in their own time and in their own way.

Trying to force the issue will only cause you unnecessary grief and worry.

And it might not mean what you think it means ... assuming it's precognitive at all, and not just simple anxiety.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ilena]

I fully agree, and i really dont think about it much, but it is in the back of my mind as something to "watch out for" whenever someone else mentions something relating to it, ive spoken to someone who litterally said they were gona die in this year or something and well thgat was like 20 - 30 years ago or something, so i know its possible that it wont happen but when theres a few others saying the same thing, who knows, all i know is if the world does end i want to be with my horses when it does,

[Collin152]

Well that's a while away... How about the August full moon on the 16th? That's a big celebration here in Greece, we're almost Pagan. It's powerful for love mostly but I'm pretty sure it'll do the trick for this too...

Heh, well, I could make use of that for a differant spell.
I tried this... not-quite-love-spell unknowingly on the last new moon (which is to say, I diddn't know it was new moon). It drained me so badly, I've still not recovered.

See, I made a pact with the Moon ages ago. She lends me her power, but I have to use it with her approval. On the New Moon, she's not around to say no to anything.
Course, as soon as she saw what I did, she got really angry, and I'm suffering for it.

Anyways...
That's why it needs to be a new moon, though. See, she's fond of spirits, and I'm working against one. I tried getting rid of it on a new moon before, but on my own the best I can do is force it out of a room and exhaust myself.

So the other night I made a pact with Mother Earth...
Getting in over my head here.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I don't know much, but I do know that Pacts are not your friend. Don't go working with TOO many pacts, or who knows what may happen.

[Kneenibble]

What is a pact, and how and why would somebody make one?

[Collin152]

It's like I get power in exchange for indentured servitude.
It's actually a pretty nice tradeoff.

[Kneenibble]

Power?
What services does the moon indent?

[Collin152]

That's classified.
It has nothing to do with werewolves.

[Kneenibble]

Pff, what a cocktease.

[fraud]

"Love and magic have a great deal in common. They enrich the soul, delight the heart. And they both take practice."

Magic is seperated into 7 catagories:
1.nigromancy (black magic)
2.geomancy (earth magic)
3.hydromancy (water magic)
4.aeromancy (air magic)
5.pyromancy (fire magic)
6.chiromancy (fortunetelling)
7.scapulimancy (practice of divination by use of scapulae)

[Ganurath]

It's like I get power in exchange for indentured servitude.
It's actually a pretty nice tradeoff.I'm always looking for an opportunity to learn about and participate in the world of magic. I'd like to learn more about this.

[fraud]

I'm always looking for an opportunity to learn about and participate in the world of magic. I'd like to learn more about this.

I agree. I'd like to learn also:smallbiggrin:

[Collin152]

I'm always looking for an opportunity to learn about and participate in the world of magic. I'd like to learn more about this.

Well, it started on the night of the Full Moon, some time ago.
I was working outside, and rested while looking up at the sky. I saw the moon, bright and glorious, and it shone with a corona of blue flame. This vision continued for some time, and as I looked, a voice was heard in my head, and from then on, the moon and I have had corospondance.

It wasn't long before it heard me complaining about some of my problems, and my inability to use magic to help, being the weak thing that I am.

Now, the moon is a creature of change, semper crecis aut decrecis, and agrements with the moon are therefore never set in stone. The gist of it is, however, that as long as I agree to do whatever it asks, I can borrow its power for the purpose of creating change in things. The downside is, the change will fluctuate, just like the moon herself.

[Ganurath]

So I'd need to find a way to commune with an entity to start off... I don't think I'd be making a pact with the Moon, though: I'm too much of a control freak for a fleeting patron.

[Collin152]

So I'd need to find a way to commune with an entity to start off... I don't think I'd be making a pact with the Moon, though: I'm too much of a control freak for a fleeting patron.

The Sun is pretty set in his ways, but he's a pain to communicate with, seeing how these beings like being looked at.

The Earth is as steadfast as they come, but you'd do well not to upset her.

I haven't spoken with the other celestial beings. I imagine Venus and Mars will be my best bets for a pleasent chat.

[Ganurath]

The Sun is pretty set in his ways, but he's a pain to communicate with, seeing how these beings like being looked at.

The Earth is as steadfast as they come, but you'd do well not to upset her.

I haven't spoken with the other celestial beings. I imagine Venus and Mars will be my best bets for a pleasent chat.Are celestial bodies the only potential patrons?

[Collin152]

Are celestial bodies the only potential patrons?

Certainly not, but they're certainly the ones that come to mind.

It is likely that just about anythign can serve as a patron, though what you'll be getting out of it isn't certain.
Shinto Kami, the Greek Pantheon, the four elements, the five elements, the 119-ish elements...

[Ganurath]

Is there a specific entity that is associated with both darkness and fear? I've always been aversive to bright light and comfortable in shadow, and fear has been both a defining element of my behavior and a tool to manipulate the behavior of those around me. A patron associated with both would be... closest to my comfort zone.

[Collin152]

Is there a specific entity that is associated with both darkness and fear? I've always been aversive to bright light and comfortable in shadow, and fear has been both a defining element of my behavior and a tool to manipulate the behavior of those around me. A patron associated with both would be... closest to my comfort zone.

The Hospitable One, Hades, is feared and dwells in darkness.
Does that count?

[Ganurath]

The Hospitable One, Hades, is feared and dwells in darkness.
Does that count?Now you're in my element. Any idea how I'd go communing with Hades? Specifically in a manner that wouldn't draw his ire?

[Collin152]

Now you're in my element. Any idea how I'd go communing with Hades? Specifically in a manner that wouldn't draw his ire?

One:
Patronising titles are a must. Calling him by name attracts his attention, and he may call for you early if he gets bothered by you.
The Hospitable One, the Wealthy One, etc.

Two:
Associatign with death is a waste of time, as Hermes ferries the souls, and he himself does not concern himself.

I recommend tryign to contact hm via Persephone, which would involve pommegranettes.
Gimme soem time, I'll be clearer on it tomorrow.

[Ganurath]

...and he may call for you early if he gets bothered by you.*stops so fast there are skidmarks*

Whoa whoa whoa, dying is THE top fear on the Big List of Gan's Fears. Know anyone in or near my element that won't put me at risk of premature demise? Pain for punishment I can handle, but to my knowledge I don't have spare lives laying around.

[ghost_warlock]

Ghost_warlock:

Define 'supposed to'.

'Supposed to' by whom? By 'fate'? How does Fate make that determination? And if you successfully persuade fate that you need it more than whomever would have got the original roll, is that your fault?

I use 'persuade' because we're talking about an intellect or whatsoever that can dialogue with humans and is amenable to persuasion. What if there is no such intelligence? What if it's all just blind force and chance ? If that is the case, then there is no such thing as 'supposed to', is there?
My original definition of 'supposed to' was the person who chose the correct numbers, the winning numbers before the process was altered by the magician. If the magician alters the process before numbers are selected, there's not really any way to prove that the process was interfered with at all and we could only invoke your 'blind chance' as the culprit for why the magician won - serendipity is the force controling the selection of numbers, not magic.

As for all of your arguments about blind chance, all of it is invalidated by the mere existance of magic and supposed supernatural beings that become annoyed if a magician steps too far into their 'turf.' Either blind chance is the rule or there are supernatural ways to alter fate (either by mortal magicians or supernatural agents who control/influence fate and can be interfered with my mortal agents). In the case of magically altering reality, I would think it'd be looked upon with the same sort of suspicion one would someone who is known to count cards or use loaded dice for games of 'chance.' Magic would be cheating at reality, simple as that.


Two points as to your remaining discussion:

1) You're assuming that 'normal' humans are defenseless against magic.

Yet if you look at the traditions and superstitions of the world, you'll see that most of them contain charms, amulets, prayer or spells by ordinary people against just such things. The 'Shield of St. Patrick' (http://www.scborromeo.org/prayers/patrick.htm) being just one such example.

Even there .. I once had a discussion with a Wiccan high priest on the use of magic to influence sporting events. He told me that's much harder to achieve than you might think, because the natural self-confidence of athletes tends to greatly detract from the effectiveness of spells directed against them. Magic assumes that human will has meaning, after all.

In fact, here's a question for those magic folks who are familiar with American football -- I sometimes wonder if cheerleading doesn't comprise a form of folk magic. Cause what you've got is a band of people whose sole purpose is to get the crowd excited (is this a form of 'raising energy'? ) and get them focused on a single goal -- calling for victory for their team.

I'm not assuming people are defenseless against magic, only that such defenses are hardly commonplace. Else, attempts at magic would be rather silly since you could assume the people/actions you're trying to influence wold be warded against such meddling. Most people in the developed world do not believe in witches or magicians or warlocks and take no steps to defend themselves from them so they would be essentially defenseless.

As for magically influencing sporting events, of course it's going to be difficult to influence the final outcome, and it has nothing to do with the supposed 'will of the athelete' or anything as eosteric as that. Simply put, most athletic competions are team sports, which means they are complex operations with many individually acting moving parts. You'd likely have to influence almost every single player on each team, as well as some of the officials and whatnot, to even have a chance of success. That's a lot of information to keep track of and attempt to alter. Atheletic competions are not won by a single goal.

And then there are the legal issues, and the outrage of participants or other involved individuals. Should a magician be found out after influencing a sporting event, especially a major one, I'd expect him/her to suddenly have reason to fear for his or her safety! :smallwink:


2) You're assuming that humans are the only magical actors in the supernatural world.

Very few -- very few indeed -- magic-users of my acquaintance will say that is true. There are all kinds of things out there, and some of them Take Notice if you step onto their turf. And sooner or later, the bill for everything done magically comes due.

There's a *reason* why many skilled magic-users use magic as a last resort, only after all purely natural methods have been exhausted.

The problem with such supernatural agents is that they can be considered local totems at best. A study of anthropology will reveal a startling lack of such entities, or the existance of completely different entities, from place to place. The supposed rules of magic, from the human perspective (the only one that really matters to us humans) are hardly universal. In other words, you can't rely on such beings to enforce the supposed costs of magic because if they exist at all, they have only local areas of influence or specific portfolios.

What it comes down to is humans would be responsible for policing human magical activity, and because of the nature of such a beast (and the typical policy of non-involvement among magical circles - keep your nose out of other people's business), I have my doubts that it would be a serious undertaking.

None of your arguments addressed the key point I was making; the issue of fear as it relates to morality and ethics.

Using magic to injure someone who's wronged/annoyed you is no less evil than using a mundane weapon - revenge is still revenge. Using mind control to alter the way someone views you is no less evil than using drugs - rape is still rape. Using magic to win the lottery is no less evil than fixing the outcome by stacking the odds - cheating is still cheating. If people can use magic to go about doing these things undetected by authorities, or even the individuals affected, the world becomes a frightening place where we have to be on constant guard, worrying about who wishes us harm and can inflict it with inpunity.

(BTW, I would define evil as a willful attempt to cause an unwanted effect on another person or group of people - a malign positive - or a willful attempt to deprive someone else of a desired effect/object - a malign negative. Inflicting harm and deprivation are the two primary forms of evil, imo. Note that this is not a catch all, and I'm sure there's other ways to do evil that I'm not spending the time to think out or detail here - just because I haven't talked about something doesn't mean that it can't therefore be evil; morality and ethics aren't dictated by my lack of imagination. Also note that it is intent which matters, not success.)

[happyturtle]

I don't want to practice magic. I just like reading about it.

I still want a working mind shield, though the anti-depressants help a lot with that. (Yay modern medicine!)

[ghost_warlock]

I don't want to practice magic. I just like reading about it.

I still want a working mind shield, though the anti-depressants help a lot with that. (Yay modern medicine!)

Yes, SSRIs are the BOMB! So much better than the MOA-inhibitors they used to dish out. Or having a hole drilled in your head, for that matter. Modern medicine is miracle-working in practice.

Oh, and in case anyone is wondering...I used to practice Dianic Wicca. But I gave it up when they started making deity cards (http://www.amazon.com/Goddesses-Knowledge-Cards-Paintings-Seddon/dp/0764906046).
PRACTICING A SPIRTUALITY SHOULD NOT BE LIKE PLAYING POKEMON! :smallfurious:

[Thanatos 51-50]

I don't want to practice magic. I just like reading about it.

I still want a working mind shield, though the anti-depressants help a lot with that. (Yay modern medicine!)

Check your PM box.

[Tempest Fennac]

thanatos5150, please could you PM me that mindshield if you can't post it here? It would be really useful to me.

[SDF]

I found my friend's, ex's magic book lying around his apartment. I was a little disappointed that all the spells basically gave you good luck. I was kinda hoping for something that would ruin someones life. :P The whole thing was pretty silly though.

[Tempest Fennac]

How was the book silly? Also, do you know if the spells were effective or not?

[Thanatos 51-50]

I found my friend's, ex's magic book lying around his apartment. I was a little disappointed that all the spells basically gave you good luck. I was kinda hoping for something that would ruin someones life. :P The whole thing was pretty silly though.

Magic does not work that way.
At least, theres no way I'd want to work magic that would work that way. Can you imagine the karmic backlash? Ouch!
Another reason I stick to non-magickal means.

Tempest, Mind-Shield up'n'coming.

[SDF]

I was kind of kidding about the whole life ruining thing, but I'm not too worried about karmic backlash. I've made it a hobby to try and tick off any cosmic force I can when the opportunity arises. I'll taunt and make tasteless jokes about ghosts that have supposedly died and haunted areas, or I'll do spiritually offensive things that only me and a deity could know. Never experienced a haunting, or anything bad happening to me. In the end I don't believe in any of if.

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks. :smallsmile: To be honest, I'd love to live in a high magic setting (considering how everyone else, including the police, would have magic as well, I doubt that there would be any real probl;ems because of it). Technology may not have developed as much, though (eg: why bother with plumbing beyond toilets or washing machines when people can use Prestigitation?).

[Ganurath]

(eg: why bother with plumbing beyond toilets or washing machines when people can use Prestigitation?).Hot showers feel good.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Hot showers feel good.
*inane agreement*
hot showers+ massages feel better!:smallbiggrin:

[Tempest Fennac]

I know (I was thinking more about it from a pactical perspective; Prestigitation would be much quicker, and you could probably make yourself feel warm while using it). Would you miss hot showers if they never existed, though?

[Ganurath]

I know (I was thinking more about it from a pactical perspective; Prestigitation would be much quicker, and you could probably make yourself feel warm while using it). Would you miss hot showers if they never existed, though?I would never miss a good reason for everyone to leave me alone for a half-hour.

[Vella_Malachite]

Whoa...so many people...

Yeah, I'm a believer. I woke up with a bad feeling both times when my great-grandparents died; 5:30 am, and 4:00 am.

Me and a couple of friends were also followed around by a large shapeshifter; we never really found out what it wanted, apart from that it wanted to suck power from inexperienced people who couldn't protect themselves that well. We got some express lessons from another friend of mine and it hasn't troubled us, though the chick behind it was none too pleased, I'm telling you that right now.

I once stopped a small, weird doggy-liony thing from attacking me and the ghost that lives in the Year 7 centre (common room) during a Maths class.

And yeah, I talk to the ghost in the Year 7 centre.

I'm a devout Pagan (Wiccan) and have been for a little while, but I'm still learning.

OK.

With the shielding, you can use earth energy for that, imagine energy from the earth surrounding you in a bubble of light as big or small as you want, but make sure you get rid of some of your stress and stuff like that first, otherwise it feels all horrible inside.

And as for the poltergeist, friends and I have had some luck with salt and pentacles and Devil's Traps; also, if it comes after you and you're not prepared, try sort of feeling your energy and tying the ghost up in it. Then leave it somewhere for a while. Mental missiles also work well.
I'd be interested in knowing about this ritual thing you're planning on doing on the new moon, Collin. Can you PM me some info?

And as for the discussion on how the whole world would be crap if everyone had magic, personally, I believe in the Threefold Law; if you do anything to deliberately harm others, it comes back to bite you...three times over. And yeah, I've been the butt of that accidentally a couple of times, so I'm willing to try to obey that one.

[Tempest Fennac]

What happened to the shapeshifter? If you accidentally created it yourself, it could have been a thought form (to get rid of those, visualise a thread going from them to you before draining their energy until they disappaear).

[Thanatos 51-50]

And as for the discussion on how the whole world would be crap if everyone had magic, personally, I believe in the Threefold Law; if you do anything to deliberately harm others, it comes back to bite you...three times over. And yeah, I've been the butt of that accidentally a couple of times, so I'm willing to try to obey that one.

I've always read it as "Threefold", you know, like, Cubed?

[Ethrael]

Ok, new moon it is then. And I'll try and work something out with her about being angry.

As for the mindshield, have you got a third? :smallconfused: :smallredface:

[Thanatos 51-50]

As for the mindshield, have you got a third? :smallconfused: :smallredface:

Erm... care to explain that? DO you a PM or shoold I just post it here or something?

[fraud]

I'm curious on how to gain the power of magic. Collin152 suggest following an entity what would other people suggest.

[Tempest Fennac]

It's not the same thing, but I went on a couple of weekend courses to learn Reiki up to Master level. It's good for helping other people to heal themselves, and I've been using it as a buff lately, but it's limited beyond that (and I can't seem to heal myself with it:smallfrown:).

[fraud]

I've found a few websites promising witchcraft spells. I'm also curious if anyone here has found any and if they work (if so can they give me their link)


I haven't spoken with the other celestial beings. I imagine Venus and Mars will be my best bets for a pleasent chat.

hm... the idea of Mars interests me. Since I was a child I for some reason felt attached to the planet. Gustav Holst describes it as the "Bringer of War". However like Ganurath I enjoy being alone and not the center of attention so maybe Hades would be right for me also?:smallconfused:
this is all so interest:smallamused:

[Telonius]

Personally I do believe that there's quite a bit of stuff that we can't yet explain, and a whole lot of causal relationships that science barely has the tools to start being aware of, let alone looking into. What did the man say? Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. We don't think it miraculous to be flying on a hang-glider, or conversing with somebody on the opposite side of the world in an instant using a shiney piece of metal and plastic; but a thousand years ago you'd be called a witch for suggesting it. Tolkien's elves had that figured out, too. They never really could figure out why everybody else was calling it magic, when they were just creatively using the real properties inherent in the world around them.

Regarding evil spirit removal... with spiritual energy, in my experience, like attracts like. Remove your own internal fear before you try to banish external fear.

December 2012 will indeed have a most important event occurring therein. I hereby predict that, in the last third of the month, on the day the sun begins to return, that I will celebrate my 32nd birthday. :smallbiggrin:

[Shademan]

i have a theory when it comes to ghosts and such...
you know the laws of nature? one of 'em says that energy can NEVER disappear. it will merely change. now if the soul is a sort of energy, what happens with it when you are dead? well i suppose it leaks out of the empty husk of your body...

just theorizing here...

[Ilena]

One thing ive always wondered is if you can shapeshift to a differnt form with magic, ive always wanted to be a centaur and ive always felt closer to horses then anything and ive never felt right in a human body, ive heard its not possible in physical form but that in the astral plane of existance you can be whatever you wish.

and it seems wierd to me to be praying to a planet even though i do believe in them, and also with the fact that i speak to the moon, she doesnt speak back i think, not directly, but i do occationally gaze up at her.

[Destro_Yersul]

Personally, I've been wondering if I've got a strong enough will to haunt something when I kick off. It would have to be something that would last, of course, but I'd really like to be able to stick around. I'm not fond of the thought of death...

Also, I think 2012 is simply the year their calender ends. I've got no special feelings about it.

[pendell]

I'll put this bit first:



None of your arguments addressed the key point I was making; the issue of fear as it relates to morality and ethics.




Using magic to injure someone who's wronged/annoyed you is no less evil than using a mundane weapon - revenge is still revenge.


Agreed. Thinking evil towards a person is not quite as bad as physically doing it, but it's still a black mark on the soul.



Using mind control to alter the way someone views you is no less evil than using drugs - rape is still rape.


The difference here is that I don't think you can force someone with mind control the way you can with violence. You can, at most, influence them. A person with sufficiently strong self-possession isn't going to fall for such a thing.

My wife is a praying woman. I *know* she pulls stunts like that on me, because one minute I'm boiling with rage about something and the next I'm utterly calm. My mind seems to change for no apparent reason. And I find out -- because I ask - -that yes, yes she was praying for me at that specific moment for that specific thing.

I'm not going to whine about it or accuse her of manipulating me. She's simply using every tool in her arsenal to accomplish her goal of keeping a peaceful home. And it's not like I'm totally defenseless in that regard. My rule is -- whatever tool you bring to the contest becomes fair game. If you do it to me, don't complain if I do it back to you.



Using magic to win the lottery is no less evil than fixing the outcome by stacking the odds - cheating is still cheating.


I will disagree with this at length later. My fundamental point is that using magic to compete in the lottery is no more evil than using your legs to compete in soccer is. If it's part of the rules, that's one thing. OTOH, when no one else agrees to do so, and everyone *else* is bringing all the weaponry they can muster, leaving your own weapon at home is simply handicapping yourself for no good reason.



If people can use magic to go about doing these things undetected by authorities, or even the individuals affected, the world becomes a frightening place where we have to be on constant guard, worrying about who wishes us harm and can inflict it with inpunity.


I think you're assigning greater power to the magician, and less power to ordinary people, then is warranted. Again, this will be discussed at length.



My original definition of 'supposed to' was the person who chose the correct numbers, the winning numbers before the process was altered by the magician. If the magician alters the process before numbers are selected, there's not really any way to prove that the process was interfered with at all and we could only invoke your 'blind chance' as the culprit for why the magician won - serendipity is the force controling the selection of numbers, not magic.


Maybe so ... but do you really believe that any given lottery selection is free of magic, trained or untrained? I've *seen* people do their lottery picks.

The fact is, just about everyone who participates in a lottery believes in magic, or in fate, or in their luck, or what not. Why else would they dare odds of millions to one? Their faith in themselves is almost touching.

If it were simply a matter of one Adept facing off with hordes of innocents, I might agree with you. As it stands, I think magic (counting such primitive luck manipulation as good luck charms) is the rule, not the exception, in lottery games. So I see it (if I were permitted such things) as a simple contest of skill, not a matter of 'cheating'.

It's only cheating if everyone else has either agreed not to do it and is avoiding doing it out of honor, or has no capability to do it.

As it is, since everyone has the capacity and the ability, I don't see this as any different from the Herndon Monument climb (http://www.usna.edu/admissions/faq.htm#herndon). Hundreds of people climb the pole, only one gets to the top first. If some people put more effort into learning pole-climbing than others in preparation for the event, are they at fault for doing so?

Refusing to use magic in lottery because it's cheating is, IMO, equivalent to refusing to weight train for football because use of the equipment is 'cheating'. I have religious reasons for not using magic. But this isn't one of them.



As for all of your arguments about blind chance, all of it is invalidated by the mere existance of magic and supposed supernatural beings that become annoyed if a magician steps too far into their 'turf.' Either blind chance is the rule or there are supernatural ways to alter fate (either by mortal magicians or supernatural agents who control/influence fate and can be interfered with my mortal agents). In the case of magically altering reality, I would think it'd be looked upon with the same sort of suspicion one would someone who is known to count cards or use loaded dice for games of 'chance.' Magic would be cheating at reality, simple as that.


If magic is 'cheating' , who made the rules?

And why should a person who is behind the curve or disabled feel bound by rules made for people who don't suffer from those disabilities?

Realistically, how many people get into magic because they're already successful? And how many people are driven to magic because they aren't successful in any other way?

Marx once called religion 'the opiate of the people'. I contend that magic fulfills a similar role in giving perceived power to the powerless. Go up the socioeconomic ladder, the more likely you are to find disbelief in magic and contempt for it's practitioners. Go down to the other end of the scale, down to the people buying lottery tickets at your local convenience store, you'll find all kinds of magic or luck manipulation.

Magic is a form of chaos. It upsets the applecarts of ordered society, giving power and ability to those who have none. And this is bad ... why?



I'm not assuming people are defenseless against magic, only that such defenses are hardly commonplace.


Think not?

When I was ten years old, I had a problem. Whenever I looked up from my bed at night, I'd see a black, cloaked figure in my closet waiting for me to go to sleep. Of course my parents wouldn't do anything.

I learned to imagine my bed surrounded by guardians with guns, which the creature couldn't approach. And as long as I kept that up, I couldn't be bothered.

I learned to sleep.

Simply a psychological exercise, perhaps. Or perhaps as a child I learned how to shield , and all this without a lick of training or any idea of what 'shielding' meant. Because I may have been young and untrained (they don't teach magic in fundamentalist households), but I was still a human being and I had an imagination. And that's all I needed.

And I think the same thing is true elsewhere. I think most 'magic' is simply formalizing what most people, especially kids, do as a matter of course instinctively, intuitively.



Else, attempts at magic would be rather silly since you could assume the people/actions you're trying to influence wold be warded against such meddling.


That's actually a pretty fair assumption.

I know a fair number of shamans, witches and magicians online and a few IRL.

One was a failing grad student.
One was a motel 6 clerk.
One was an IT guy, who was pretty much permanently sick.
Another was a skillful teacher.

I have known a number of highly successful, rich people. None of them were magicians. I have known a number of magicians. They tended to be either middle class or lower on the economic ladder, and to struggle with serious physical problems besides. What does that tell you about the value of magic as a force multiplier?

If magic was all it was cracked up to be, most of the magicians here and elsewhere would have the Significant other of their dreams, have as much material prosperity as they wanted, have solved their physical illnesses. They have not.

Which counters my point above somewhat .. although magic is real, it tends to provide more of the *illusion* of power than of actual ability to change things in the world for better. Certainly less than one could usually get for expending that energy in some other fashion.

Lots of students cast spells for better exam grades. There's even a Statue (http://www.usna.edu/admissions/faq.htm#tecumseh) for it at the naval academy. But it isn't the people giving pennies to the 'god of 2.0' who graduate, but the ones who study their a**es off.

You can read this relative ineffectiveness in one of 2 ways:

1) There isn't any such thing as magic, or if it is, it's weak.
2) Humans are inherently spiritual -- magical -- creatures. If so, having a small amount of knowledge of how it works doesn't really give you much of an edge over the vast majority of the human race which does it intuitively.



Most people in the developed world do not believe in witches or magicians or warlocks and take no steps to defend themselves from them so they would be essentially defenseless.


Think so?

By that logic, the magical societies of Native America should have pwned the western colonizers quite handily.

Consider the Ghost Dance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_dancers) movement which culminated in Wounded Knee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_dancers#Role_in_Wounded_Knee_Massacre). Consider the Boxer rebellion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_rebellion) of China.

In each of these cases, essentially magical techniques were pitted against the material might of the western world.

The catastrophic failure of magic when pitted against conventional weapons should lead one to think twice about it's value, and about the 'defenseless' nature of your average person.

Perhaps we see the world differently. But in my environment, the average person is in the lower end of the economy. Our building janitor has a picture of a saint on her trash can. It's pretty obvious she takes that stuff seriously. I doubt she'd be a 'defenseless' target. And even those people who are cut off completely often have relatives praying for their safety -- and whatever your religious beliefs, there's no question that sincere prayer has a real magical effect.

It may be that the world you see is one where religious/supernatural belief is all but suppressed. *I* see a world where atheism/rationalism is a flimsy facade on top of a veritable jungle of religions, superstitions, and rituals. A world of gods, demons, spirits, and fae of all kinds, hidden just out of the corner of the eye.

What you say may be true for the very top of the upper, upper crust of society. But I'm certain it's not true for much of society below that level. And if such people are so stupid as to divorce themselves from their roots to that extent, I'd say they're to blame for any consequences that ensue from their neglect.




As for magically influencing sporting events, of course it's going to be difficult to influence the final outcome, and it has nothing to do with the supposed 'will of the athelete' or anything as eosteric as that. Simply put, most athletic competions are team sports, which means they are complex operations with many individually acting moving parts.


Track and field?



And then there are the legal issues, and the outrage of participants or other involved individuals. Should a magician be found out after influencing a sporting event, especially a major one, I'd expect him/her to suddenly have reason to fear for his or her safety! :smallwink:


I would blame him/her no more than I would blame the hometown crowd for 'influencing' the game from the stands by cheering their lungs out to encourage their team.

Heh ... that brings up an image. I remember watching a basketball game once. In basketball, if a player is fouled he is permitted to throw two free shots from the free throw line.

Well, this one player trots up to the free throw line, and instantly the whole audience pulls out big, big signs saying 'BRICK'. This is basketball slang for 'miss completely', rim and backboard altogether.

So not only is this man having to contend with the concerted ill will of thousands of people, they also try to disturb his concentration physically by screaming their lungs out just when he made the shot.

He made it anyway.

Was the crowd 'cheating'? Of course not. It's part of the game. And I think the same thing for any magician out there trying to influence the event magically. If the magician can do better than tens of thousands of people who are actually present, I say more power to him. And the magician is not to blame if he succeeds. It's the athletes fault for failing to have the poise and self-discipline to rise above the noise, be it physical, magical, or emotional.



In other words, you can't rely on such beings to enforce the supposed costs of magic because if they exist at all, they have only local areas of influence or specific portfolios.


Avoiding the religious implications, even assuming you are 100% correct, those things still need to be taken into account. A person who doesn't get the lie of the land before going to work is going to find themselves in a lot of trouble. I am in correspondence with a person in England who routinely has to bail newbs in that particular area out of jams because they try doing workings without realizing what the local situation is. The equivalent of opening a Fish Take-away restaurant on Dagon Street during a full moon, to steal from Pratchett.

It may be that such things are not universal. But I doubt there's a place in this world that's a magical vacuum, either. There's whatever beings are around, plus any old workings, plus possibly millions of believers in various religions doing their various rituals.

All of this is to say that -- though the cost is not universal as you say -- magic cannot ever be a simple 'I win' button. There will always be consequences of *some* kind, and if one hasn't thought carefully through what one is doing, one could very easily get hurt.

If this were not so, one would expect mages and occultists to be the richest, most successful people in society. In fact, as a rule such people are on the outskirts, the fringes. In practice, magic doesn't seem to be an 'I win'. In fact, as a rule magic seems to cause as many problems as it solves.



What it comes down to is humans would be responsible for policing human magical activity,


Now how exactly would we do that, especially to the standards of western proof? Does a servitor have a DNA strand on it? Ballistic evidence?

I don't see any way what you propose would ever be possible, legally. To the extent of 'proof beyond a reasonable doubt'.

Remember that for hundreds of years western society punished 'black magic' legally, and the result was the Burning Times. I'm a Christian fundamentalist, and I don't want those times back any more than you do. Torture does terrible things to the soul of the torturer as well as the victim.




(BTW, I would define evil as a willful attempt to cause an unwanted effect on another person or group of people - a malign positive - or a willful attempt to deprive someone else of a desired effect/object - a malign negative.


I will agree with your first but not your second. You've competed for a job, surely? Whenever I put in my resume, there were hundreds of other applicants for the position.
For me to get that job meant disappointing those hundreds of other people. I don't believe I was 'evil' for wanting to have a job that paid a salary, even if getting it meant beating out hundreds of other people.

And if one of my competitors resorted to magic -- well, if you'd rather depend on magic than on experience, solid resume and interviewing skills and a winning personality, be my guest :).


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Telonius]

Consider the Ghost Dance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_dancers) movement which culminated in Wounded Knee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_dancers#Role_in_Wounded_Knee_Massacre). Consider the Boxer rebellion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_rebellion) of China.

In each of these cases, essentially magical techniques were pitted against the material might of the western world.

The catastrophic failure of magic when pitted against conventional weapons should lead one to think twice about it's value, and about the 'defenseless' nature of your average person.


On the other hand, consider the successes of Gandhi, and several events in Haitian history (Boukman's role in Haiti's rebellion in the 1790s, and some of the protests against Papa Doc were explicitly voudou-inspired). And where does the line between Magic and symbolic inspiration fall? Beliefs are powerful. Getting people to believe in your ideal, even though there's no evidence that it's ever going to be achieved, can turn the tide of a nation's history. In that sense, "Magic" isn't without its successes, especially if the technology levels of the combatants is anything close to each other.

[Collin152]

*stops so fast there are skidmarks*

Whoa whoa whoa, dying is THE top fear on the Big List of Gan's Fears. Know anyone in or near my element that won't put me at risk of premature demise? Pain for punishment I can handle, but to my knowledge I don't have spare lives laying around.

Heh, I remember fearing death. Dark times, dark times.

Now, darkness and solitude, but not death.
That's tricky.
After all, an entity devoted to solitude wouldn't be well known, now would he?

The problem with these two concepts, furthermore, is that they are tied greatly to apathy, and it's hard to bargain with an apathetic being.



hm... the idea of Mars interests me. Since I was a child I for some reason felt attached to the planet. Gustav Holst describes it as the "Bringer of War". However like Ganurath I enjoy being alone and not the center of attention so maybe Hades would be right for me also?

Mars, or Ares, is indeed the bringer of war. Delighting in violence, bloodshed, and so forth, he is generally portrayed. This is only kind of innacurate.
Mars is devoted to intense, vehemant emotion, to the exclusion of others. Just about the opposite of Hades, or Pluto, who is so consumed by apathy towards most of existance that he does little but watch over the souls of the dead for eternity.

It is difficult for me to describe any particular patron of power to be "right" for anybody I don't know very well. Though then again, it's not for everybody. I went about it because I was frustrated with my own weakness, and out of a need to serve, that being my nature.


It is advisable, by the way, for someone just begining to work with magic to not attempt to contact such unpredictable beings.
This kind of magic is, to put it in a DnD metaphor, a dangerous fusion of beign a Cleric and a Binder.

[Ganurath]

I see. So, Collin, what would you suggest as... training wheels magic?

[Collin152]

I see. So, Collin, what would you suggest as... training wheels magic?

Lesse...
I'm inclined to promote the concoction of potions and incenses as a means of focusing your magic, until you're able to do well enough without any.

Problem being knowing how to mix them, what to use and all that...
I'll see if I can't compile a list for refrence, for the benefit of anybody who wants this help. Herb-magic is my specialty, after all.

In the meantime, you could practise somethign simple. What would you like to try?

[Foeofthelance]

I wonder whether or not precog counts? I've probably had about a dozen and a half experiences at this point that most would chalk up as mere deja vu, if it wasn't for the fact that I know I'd been in that scene before in a dream. Its never anything major, I'll just be in the middle of something and realize I've already done it before. Never really had any major impact on my life, save for the one time it told me to stick close to a door in a D&D game. (Long story short, it meant I was close to the cleric when my wizard got KO'd.)

Generally I can tell when I've had a precog dream, because not only will it be crystal clear while I'm having it, I also can't control it. Quite often when I'm dreaming I have at least a little concious control over my actions and the pacing and timing of events, but with these dreams I'm always caught in a strict first person view and limited to what ever happens, no do overs.

Actually, the biggest question this leaves me with is whether this means I'm living the life I'm intended to lead, or if I'm just getting a quick preview of where my choices might take me. After all, not all of them come true...

[fraud]

well to be honest I'm looking for extreme power. Power corrupts but ultimate power is fun:smallbiggrin:.

[Collin152]

well to be honest I'm looking for extreme power. Power corrupts but ultimate power is fun:smallbiggrin:.

To get to the top, you must work your way up from the bottom.
To get to the bottom, you must work your way up from Humanity.

[fraud]

so who would you suggest would give me the most power. Jupiter?
I'm looking for something along the line of nigromancy or even chiromancy

[Collin152]

so who would you suggest would give me the most power. Jupiter?

Well, Jupiter is proud, and probably wouldn't give you anything in your current state.
Saturn is no better, and may actually be worse.

Uranus is proudest of them all, come to think of it.

And Neptune...

Well, the Gas Giants are rightly named, as inflated as their egos are.


Inwhat regard are you looking for power? You'd do well to focus on something, or you'll go nowhere. The engine is limited by the wheels it spins, after all.

EDIt: Nigromancy, you say? Wouldn't know a thing about that, as the 'demons' I have working for me are really just glorified spirits I assembled from fragments floating by.

Chiromancy, now, that I know much on the matter of. I recommend you look for a good book on the subject, it doesn't really take much skill to work properly, just experience.

[Ganurath]

Lesse...
I'm inclined to promote the concoction of potions and incenses as a means of focusing your magic, until you're able to do well enough without any.

Problem being knowing how to mix them, what to use and all that...
I'll see if I can't compile a list for refrence, for the benefit of anybody who wants this help. Herb-magic is my specialty, after all.

In the meantime, you could practise somethign simple. What would you like to try?Self mastery, particularly in the area of reducing my stress levels.

[Collin152]

Self mastery, particularly in the area of reducing my stress levels.

A wise place to begin.

Now, to begin this process, we must determine the nature of your... for lack of a better word, aura. Soul, spirit, astral presence, it's got a lot of ways to describe it.

Now, ordinarily, to determine this, I'd take a look at your palm. It would help me determine which element governs you, and the contact would give me a taste of your aura. Obviously, there are a few things preventing this.

I'll see if I can't divine it, and in the meantime will try and provide a means for you to discern it for yourself.

[fraud]

EDIt: Nigromancy, you say? Wouldn't know a thing about that, as the 'demons' I have working for me are really just glorified spirits I assembled from fragments floating by.

which entity would you suggest for nigromancy? Or maybe even goetic magic? Maybe even the moon. I'm still not sure what I'm looking for. I'm certain I want power. Or unlimited knowledge

[Collin152]

which entity would you suggest for nigromancy? Or maybe even goetic magic?

When your buisness is forcing beings into your submission, you'll find it hard to be on good terms with spiritual entities.
Even so, you'll want one who is used to this kind of superioirty, pledging yourself as a sort of lieutenant, your subjected spirits beign theirs to usurp from your control on a whim.

For this cause, Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus are all willing, though keep in mind that each is succsesivley more intolerant of human arrogance.

Stepping outside Roman mythos, I have a feeling both Czernobog and Belobog of Slavic mythology could be of assistance here.


You'll want to invest a lot of effort into spiritual protections, though, before you go about summoning or commanding spirits.

[fraud]

I'm not really sure what I'm looking for. I know I'm looking for either unlimited power or unlimited knowledge. I am small and easy to defeat so having a little magic on my side would help. I'm worried that if I summon an army of demons on the schoolgrounds to defend myself I could get in a wee bit of trouble...
something that would allow to pretty much stun my enemies or maybe even knock them out

[Collin152]

I'm not really sure what I'm looking for. I know I'm looking for either unlimited power or unlimited knowledge. I am small and easy to defeat so having a little magic on my side would help. I'm worried that if I summon an army of demons on the schoolgrounds to defend myself I could get in a wee bit of trouble...
something that would allow to pretty much stun my enemies or maybe even knock them out

First, if you ever do manage to get to any sort of 'unlimited' status, you'll probably die soon after. Trust me, my limits weaken on the New Moon, and I was out for days after I tried something big to take advantage of it.

Now, trying to use magic in a personal confrontation? Difficult. You need to be in total control of your emotions to do anything properly, and it often takes time. The best you could hope for is what I did to deal with violence: I shrrouded myself in nondescript apathy. It's as close as you can get to invisibility while still being visible.

Now, furthermore, demons are largely invisible, being the creatures of pure spirit that they are. Generally, you'll only see them now and again, if you work the right magic, and even then, it's more like a symbol to represent them. Tricky buisness, devils, demons, and other such nasty beasties.
But yes, invisible, and largely insubstantial.

Magic is, after all, rather subtle, elsewise everybody would know it existed.

[fraud]

I'm a tad curious on the powers of the moon

[Collin152]

I'm a tad curious on the powers of the moon

It is an entity of change, as one can observe in its incessant waxing and waning.
It lends, therefore, substantial power to spells intending to cause change.
However, as the full moon returns to darkness, spells cast by the moons power will fade away and return periodically, if you don't add enough power from some other source (like yourself).

Generally speaking, the rule is that moon-magic on the Full Moon is safest, but on the New Moon is strongest.

[Ethrael]

Sorry I wasn't clear, thanatos, I meant a PM for me too. :smallredface: I could always try myself though...

[fraud]

this is a little something I found on the net (http://www.moonsmuses.com/moonphases.html) wanted to know how accurate it was

[Collin152]

this is a little something I found on the net (http://www.moonsmuses.com/moonphases.html) wanted to know how accurate it was

I disagree with it frequently.

It is, after all, apparently founded on the untrue principle that witches are all female.

[fraud]

didn't see that part. You know I'm curious as to what I can learn. I'd rather have a table filled with my favourite food and choose the one I want to eat instead of asking the waiter if pasta sounds good. What are all the types of magic worth noting?

[Leigh]

Huh...I was under the impression that all witches were female...and wizards were male...

[happyturtle]

The moon thing is where my scientific mind and romantic mind come to blows. The phases are just reflections. The moon's still there. So why would its power be affected?

OTOH, I had a hella 3 day migraine last week that my mother blames on the eclipse. I don't quite believe that either, but then again, I hadn't ingested *any* trigger foods, and it wasn't the time of month I usually get migraines.

So though I don't quite believe, I don't quite disbelieve either. :smallconfused:

[Collin152]

What are all the types of magic worth noting?

Oh, my, time for an incomplete listing from off my head.

Aura reading is always nice to have.

Palmistry is a good one, and a great way to show off your knowledge.

Difficult as it is, ensnaring the minds of people around you is invaluable on any occaision.

Deliberate precognition is worth looking into, in its various forms (I use cleromancy, divination by means of dice, personally)

Control of personal energy is a must.

Potion making, and the associated herbal knowledge, very useful, and lends itself to other areas.

Probability manipulation gives me headaches, but it's useful.

Various shields agaisnt mental, emotional, and spiritual intrusions are good to practise.

Umm, having trouble getting more.

Healing, I hear good thigns about, but I can only do it in potions.

Telepathy is nice, but it's got a learnign curve.

Astral travel isn't too useful, but I've used it to communicate through dreams before.

See anything you like yet? I can't recall more, though I will try.


Huh...I was under the impression that all witches were female...and wizards were male...

Wizards are the types what go into a lot of detail on why it works, and occupy their time looking for ways to turn lead into gold, and other such improbable feats.
Witches are a little more spiritual.

...you insensitive oaf...
:smalltongue:


The moon thing is where my scientific mind and romantic mind come to blows. The phases are just reflections. The moon's still there. So why would its power be affected?

The moon has no less power, but it's the light its reflecting that has an influence on magic. It's got a lot to do with "Belief gives it power", but the gist of it is, the phases are about the amount of power available.
Which is why it's a crock that a waxing moon is any differant from a waning moon.

[fraud]

ensnaring peoples minds? Is that like mind reading/control?

[Collin152]

ensnaring peoples minds? Is that like mind reading/control?

In theory, you could get to that point.
But it's a little more subtle and indirect.

You alter perceptions, whether they be sensory input or mental viewpoints, and use that to reach some desired effect.
It's hard to go about, even to a small degree.

As it is, the best Ican do is make somebody believe what I'm sayign is true, or get them to agree with me, no matter what I'm saying, as long as I can keep focused, and look in their eyes now and again.

Does this interest you?

[pendell]

On the other hand, consider the successes of Gandhi, and several events in Haitian history (Boukman's role in Haiti's rebellion in the 1790s, and some of the protests against Papa Doc were explicitly voudou-inspired).

A valid point. But I wasn't trying to argue that magic is completely worthless; I was trying to argue that it's not an automatic "I win" button. I don't think your point invalidates mine; it simply clarifies it a touch.

Even there, though, there's some room for quibbling. Gandhi had success, yes. But the British had held India for two hundred years prior, in the face of armed revolts such as the Indian Mutiny. Presumably magic was employed in these events as well.

Same with 'Baby Doc'. I've heard (http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/duvalier.html) that Baby Doc and his father were both Voodoo practitioners of some renown. Certainly Baby doc has been linked (http://www.wildhunt.org/2008/04/haitian-vodous-supreme-chief.html) with voodoo priests. So which was it? Did voodoo keep them in power, or did voodoo kick them out? The immediate cause of Duvalier's departure, remember, was the US Marines.

So I think you're going to have to do some work if you want to argue these two points as successes for magic.

And as you say, it's going to be even harder to differentiate 'magic' from 'crowd psychology'. Betsy Ross reputedly sewed the first American flag, which was a potent symbol; but I don't think that makes her a witch.

I look forward to your argument.



Respectfully,

Brian P.

[fraud]

I'm still deciding... I'm kinda looking for something to make up for my physical weakness

[happyturtle]

The moon has no less power, but it's the light its reflecting that has an influence on magic. It's got a lot to do with "Belief gives it power", but the gist of it is, the phases are about the amount of power available.
Which is why it's a crock that a waxing moon is any differant from a waning moon.

Okay, that actually makes a lot of sense.

Now is there any basis in the eclipse = migraine from last week? I certainly didn't cause it by belief as I was completely unaware that there was an eclipse occurring.

[Collin152]

Okay, that actually makes a lot of sense.

Now is there any basis in the eclipse = migraine from last week? I certainly didn't cause it by belief as I was completely unaware that there was an eclipse occurring.

Nono, the belief of others can impact you.
As it is, it may be that the only reason the Earth is currently round is because that's what is universally believed.

So, Eclipses being traditionally powerful events wreaking havoc with the spiritual realm, thats the effect it had, and you beign a sponge for this sort of thing... naturally you wree adversley affected.

[fraud]

I think nigromancy is the thing for me. Being able to command demons to do stuff I can't or don't want to. How do I achieve such power?

[Collin152]

I think nigromancy is the thing for me. Being able to command demons to do stuff I can't or don't want to. How do I achieve such power?

Aye... a contrived, multi-step process.

First, you'll want to be able to control your personal energies.
Meditation, relaxation, and so forh can help with this. Basically, you must be able to retain calm in any situation. Patience is another thing to develop with this.

Then, in order to go about commanding demons, there are a lot of areas you need to develop.

Firstly, protective magics, to ensure they don't turn upon you.
Secondly, communication magics, the sort that starts at empathy and eventually becomes full on telepathy.
Thirdly, drawing on the power of otherworldly sources.

I'm actually in the process of writing a guide for begining practitioners of the magical arts, so the means of aquiring those three talents wil come later.

Once you do that, you basically create an enclosure of positive force, and try and draw in a demon (or preferably some other entity. Even the Fair Folk are better to have turn agaisnt you than a demon!), trap it in the enclosure, and communicate with it.

You would then try and bargain with it, or perhaps bully it into submission.

More to come, more to come.

[happyturtle]

Nono, the belief of others can impact you.
As it is, it may be that the only reason the Earth is currently round is because that's what is universally believed.

So, Eclipses being traditionally powerful events wreaking havoc with the spiritual realm, thats the effect it had, and you beign a sponge for this sort of thing... naturally you wree adversley affected.

Bah! Must enact mind shield and cut myself off completely from the spiritual realm. :smalltongue:

[fraud]

thank you for all the help. I think I'll try a bit of meditation right now.

[Collin152]

Bah! Must enact mind shield and cut myself off completely from the spiritual realm. :smalltongue:

Don't forget to let it vent now and again, or you'll suffocate in your own spiritual 'exhaust'.

[happyturtle]

Don't forget to let it vent now and again, or you'll suffocate in your own spiritual 'exhaust'.

I can't really imagine myself ever being able to make a leak-proof mental shield, (which is probably a self-fulfilling prophecy) so I don't think that's a problem.

But just in case, I have the gas mask! :smalltongue:

[pendell]

As it is, it may be that the only reason the Earth is currently round is because that's what is universally believed.


Back before Copernicus, it was believed that the sun revolved around the earth, rather than vice versa. Yet today we know by observation this is not so.

How do you account for this? If all the world believed that the sun revolved around the earth, and their belief made it so, how could Copernicus observe anything else?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Vella_Malachite]

I have conscious control over dreams, too. It's quite annoying; I can't control my controlling; once I went over one section of a dream fourteen times in a row before I got it 'right'. :smallannoyed:

Personally, I don't think you need to make deals with entities of power to do magic, but you do need to get in contact with them. I generally use the moon and stars to work magic, but I use earth for my shields and things like that.

And, Tempest, no the thing definitely wasn't a part of me, as it was sent by this scary chick whose face I've never seen. Once the thing left, she was really, really frustrated. Something tells me that's not a good sign.

[Collin152]

Back before Copernicus, it was believed that the sun revolved around the earth, rather than vice versa. Yet today we know by observation this is not so.

How do you account for this? If all the world believed that the sun revolved around the earth, and their belief made it so, how could Copernicus observe anything else?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Clearly Copernicus was a particularly strong magic user, if only subconciously, and not only was therefore his belief greater than anybody elses, but he could get others to agree with him.

That, or it was all a giant conspiracy, like in Mage: The A-somethingorother.

When it's feasible that reality can rearrange itself to peoples perspectives, your historical facts and numbers are meaningless.

[fraud]

Aye... a contrived, multi-step process.

First, you'll want to be able to control your personal energies.
Meditation, relaxation, and so forh can help with this. Basically, you must be able to retain calm in any situation. Patience is another thing to develop with this.

Then, in order to go about commanding demons, there are a lot of areas you need to develop.

Firstly, protective magics, to ensure they don't turn upon you.
Secondly, communication magics, the sort that starts at empathy and eventually becomes full on telepathy.
Thirdly, drawing on the power of otherworldly sources.

I'm actually in the process of writing a guide for begining practitioners of the magical arts, so the means of aquiring those three talents wil come later.

Once you do that, you basically create an enclosure of positive force, and try and draw in a demon (or preferably some other entity. Even the Fair Folk are better to have turn agaisnt you than a demon!), trap it in the enclosure, and communicate with it.

You would then try and bargain with it, or perhaps bully it into submission.

More to come, more to come.

I forgot to ask a few quick questions:

you describe following entites as a good choice, which entity should I follow in the case of nigromancy?

how should I learn protective magics, communication magics, and drawing on the power of otherworldly sources? I already am pretty skilled at controlling my emotions and being patient (unless it comes to a slow computer) and I meditate when I need to.

[Collin152]

I forgot to ask a few quick questions:

you describe following entites as a good choice, which entity should I follow in the case of nigromancy?

how should I learn protective magics, communication magics, and drawing on the power of otherworldly sources? I already am pretty skilled at controlling my emotions and being patient (unless it comes to a slow computer) and I meditate when I need to.

My, my, such impatience to achieve power.

Well, dear, as for entities, you'l be meeting plenty as you go about your summoning, but I can scarcely recommend one. As it is, it isn't really nesecary. There are other power sources, after all. As it is, you'll only need power for an instance while calling these creatures, and then a little bit to keep them.

I would wait until one contacts you, as the moon contacted me.

Now, as for the three key ingredients to summoning magic, it's best to go at them one at a time. Protective magics, we'll start with.

Excersise one: Begin meditation. See if you can't feel the energy inside of you. Before you proceed, it should be entirely contained within you, none of it spilling out. now, imagine this energy spreading out uniformly from you, formign a sort of bubble. Concentrate on this bubble, and keep it maintained as long as you can. Keep this up, eventually you should be able to keep the bubble in existance even while not meditating.

We'll see where you get from there.

[Vella_Malachite]

Difficult as it is, ensnaring the minds of people around you is invaluable on any occaision.

Yes, very difficult, but it's got me out of tight spots before. I agree.


Potion making, and the associated herbal knowledge, very useful, and lends itself to other areas.

My herbal knowledge needs work; could you PM me some info, please?


Probability manipulation gives me headaches, but it's useful.

I did that accidentally during a game of Yahtzee once and boy, did I regret that for the next hour!

[QUOTE=Collin152;4656863]Astral travel isn't too useful, but I've used it to communicate through dreams before.[/QUOTE

I disagree. Astral travel may not have many practical uses, but it can be relaxing and it's useful to communicate with people and spiritual entities; which is not to be sneezed at.

Also, there's a site: www.witchschool.com (http://www.witchschool.com/) that is basically about this stuff. I find it useful; there's a fee to access some of the more advanced courses, but there's a fair range going for free. It's primarily Wiccan, so a lot of the info is from the Wiccan religious viewpoint, but it's got some good tips for using power and things you can do with it.

Oh, wait, this breaks the three post rule, doesn't it...? Sorry, my bad...:smallredface:

[fraud]

Yes, very difficult, but it's got me out of tight spots before. I agree.

I'm curious at this to but not as much as Nigromancy


My herbal knowledge needs work; could you PM me some info, please?

same PMing me as much info as you can will help:smallbiggrin:


I did that accidentally during a game of Yahtzee once and boy, did I regret that for the next hour!

I don't think I can take anymore head-aches:smalltongue:
but it interests me to manipulate stuff such as a game of Yahtzee:smallbiggrin:


Also, there's a site: www.witchschool.com (http://www.witchschool.com/) :

has this site worked for you?

[pendell]

Clearly Copernicus was a particularly strong magic user, if only subconciously, and not only was therefore his belief greater than anybody elses, but he could get others to agree with him.

That, or it was all a giant conspiracy, like in Mage: The A-somethingorother.

When it's feasible that reality can rearrange itself to peoples perspectives, your historical facts and numbers are meaningless.

One last question.

My sarcasm-o-meter is broken. Are you being quite serious? Or are you having some fun with me?

Doesn't matter either which way ... this is friendly banter after all .. but what you say is certainly unusual enough that I have to ask.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Collin152]

One last question.

My sarcasm-o-meter is broken. Are you being quite serious? Or are you having some fun with me?

Doesn't matter either which way ... this is friendly banter after all .. but what you say is certainly unusual enough that I have to ask.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Oh, that was mostly just me having fun.

But really, logic and magic don't mix well, when you realise that evidence could be altered by a sufficiently strong user of magic, for whatever reason.

[Ganurath]

Collin: A while back one of my Wiccan friends said that my aura was gray with orange spikes. Does that help any?

[Zarrexaij]

I didn't think auras could be gray or black. :smallconfused:

[fraud]

I wish someone could read my aura:smallfrown:

[Zarrexaij]

I've tried hard but seeing auras just hasn't come to me. Ever. For a while I was seeing that white glow people see when they're just beginning, but it never got past that. :smallfrown:

Unfortunately there's only one person I know who might be into this and it would be awkward trying to bring it up. The only reason I know is pure circumstance. And observation.

Not that it was surprising. :smallamused:

[fraud]

Excersise one: Begin meditation. See if you can't feel the energy inside of you. Before you proceed, it should be entirely contained within you, none of it spilling out. now, imagine this energy spreading out uniformly from you, formign a sort of bubble. Concentrate on this bubble, and keep it maintained as long as you can. Keep this up, eventually you should be able to keep the bubble in existance even while not meditating.


forgot to ask: How do I know when I've achieved that?

[Collin152]

forgot to ask: How do I know when I've achieved that?

You should be able to feel it.
If you can't, you probably don't have enough personal energy, and should meditate. And maybe exercise.
Good health lends itself to magic, you know.

[Ganurath]

I didn't think auras could be gray or black. :smallconfused:Yeah, she didn't know what the gray meant either. I'm guessing from your awareness of the signifigance you know what orange means? She couldn't remember off the top of her head.

[Collin152]

A gray aura indicates that the reader is color-blind.

I wouldn't trust that reading much.

[Ganurath]

A gray aura indicates that the reader is color-blind.

I wouldn't trust that reading much.Yeah, it was her idea that none of the Wiccans teach me anything. Good to know that it wasn't neccesarily an issue with me.

[Zarrexaij]

A gray aura indicates that the reader is color-blind.

I wouldn't trust that reading much.Yeah. :smallconfused:

Speaking of which, can anyone offer me any advice in seeing auras? I just can't get past the first stage. I know they're there, but I just don't see 'em.

[Collin152]

Yeah. :smallconfused:

Speaking of which, can anyone offer me any advice in seeing auras? I just can't get past the first stage. I know they're there, but I just don't see 'em.

The Eyebright herb will help you discern it a little clearer.

[Zarrexaij]

Say what? :smallfrown:

Darn me not being familiar with names for herbs.

[Collin152]

Say what? :smallfrown:

Darn me not being familiar with names for herbs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphrasia

Used in olden times to see the Fair Folk.

[fraud]

I wish I knew how to do it. I doubht I'd be able to read my own though

[Collin152]

Oh, it's possible to read your own, just not very well.
I know that mine is lavender, and takes the shape of a mist, but that's all I got.

[fraud]

a shame I don't know anyone willing to do that... or able to:smalltongue:
meanwhile I'm gonna practice the bubble

[Zarrexaij]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphrasia

Used in olden times to see the Fair Folk.Yeah, I just wiki'd it. :smallbiggrin:

Does it need to be dried, burned as incense, or what? I'm not particularly sure I could get ahold of some, however. :smallconfused:

Worse case scenario, is there another way? :smalleek:

[Collin152]

Yeah, I just wiki'd it. :smallbiggrin:

Does it need to be dried, burned as incense, or what? I'm not particularly sure I could get ahold of some, however. :smallconfused:

Worse case scenario, is there another way? :smalleek:

You wrap it in some aluminum foil and keep it on your person as an amulet.

Now, if you picture your energy reaching out like a net and drawing their aura to your eyes... might help.

Course, my mind has always atributed color and abstract concepts to anythign that enters into it, so it wasn't too much of a step to interpreting this new input.

[fraud]

well I performed the meditation and as much as I dobht I got it in one night I should say that when I was meditating I sucked in all my energy then when I attempted to realese it I felt drained and my skin tingled. And now my stomach kinda feels funny. And my dog started barking

[Dryken]

Just throwing this out of nowhere, but a while ago I came across a copy of the Grimorium Verum (those who don't know, it was supposedly written by King Solomon and a published translation was made in 1517. it details a whole bunch of interesting dark spells) and found all sorts of spells like how to become invisible, how to "see unseen horrors in the sky" and how to control people. A problem presents itself though. For all of the spells you have to be fluent in ancient hebrew and for most of them you need things that are rather difficult to get. Well, legally anyways (human head being one of them). :P

I really had no purpose to posting that but I just decided to throw it out there.

[Vella_Malachite]

Mostly, the tight spots were when someone has almost caught me doing something I shouldn't (like teachers almost catching me and my friends swordfighting with sticks and homemade bows and arrows) and using powers of persuasion to convince the teachers we weren't actually doing anything. Coming up with a feasible explanation for sticks tied into bow shapes with piece of string isn't easy, you know; it's like a -5 to a Bluff check, but I mainly succeeded.

It didn't help when other chipped in a guilty "nothing", however :smallannoyed:

[Ganurath]

Mostly, the tight spots were when someone has almost caught me doing something I shouldn't (like teachers almost catching me and my friends swordfighting with sticks and homemade bows and arrows) and using powers of persuasion to convince the teachers we weren't actually doing anything. Coming up with a feasible explanation for sticks tied into bow shapes with piece of string isn't easy, you know; it's like a -5 to a Bluff check, but I mainly succeeded.

It didn't help when other chipped in a guilty "nothing", however :smallannoyed:You see, that's where good preperation comes in handy. With good preperation, I was able to start a brawl and go unpunished due to a technicality in the school rules' definition of a fight. Look into what rules forbid that behavior, and I'll bet money there's a loophole in there. Heck, I could have set up boxing matches and held bets on the fights and done so in a manner that it was allowed in the school rules.

Maybe it's that sort of thinking that got Cas to ban me from learning magic...

[fraud]

Mostly, the tight spots were when someone has almost caught me doing something I shouldn't (like teachers almost catching me and my friends swordfighting with sticks and homemade bows and arrows) and using powers of persuasion to convince the teachers we weren't actually doing anything. Coming up with a feasible explanation for sticks tied into bow shapes with piece of string isn't easy, you know; it's like a -5 to a Bluff check, but I mainly succeeded.

It didn't help when other chipped in a guilty "nothing", however :smallannoyed:

hm... this is something I am certainly going to look in to. Also I'm a little afraid of my demon minions turning on me and shredding me to ribbons, espcially since I'm afraid I'll never master the protective spell.

[Ganurath]

hm... this is something I am certainly going to look in to. Also I'm a little afraid of my demon minions turning on me and shredding me to ribbons, espcially since I'm afraid I'll never master the protective spell.If they try, I'll digest them down to the basic energy used to fuel spellcasting and eat them. Not that I know how to do that, but I've mused about the concept ever since I ate a curse cast by a Wiccan who was still learning magic.

...Can I actually do that, or I'm I just misconstruing a miscast?

[pendell]

hm... this is something I am certainly going to look in to. Also I'm a little afraid of my demon minions turning on me and shredding me to ribbons, espcially since I'm afraid I'll never master the protective spell.

Fraud,

Don't neglect More mundane methods of self defense (http://psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=19950901-000020&page=4) either.

You seem to be a person in grade school having problems on the playground. I was that child for seven years. I'd like to offer some suggestions.

First lesson: Since you're smaller and weaker than the others, you WILL be stomped. No spiritual technique or martial arts training will prevent this. All things being equal, the bigger guy will always win.

So the trick is to *avoid* fighting if at all possible.

Let's look at our link:




They Don't Pick on Just Anyone

Up until about age seven, studies suggest, bullies pick on anyone. After that, they single out specific kids to prey on. And those bullied at one age tend to be bullied later on. Olweus calls them "whipping boys." Even the term is searing. Between ages eight and 16, about 8 or 9 percent of kids are the consistent targets of bullies.

And, says Illinois's Gary Ladd, bullies engage in a "shopping process" to find them. At the beginning of the school year, when children do not know each other well, about 22 percent of children report having a victimization experience on more than a moderate level, Ladd finds. But by the end of the school year, only 8 percent of kids wind up being regularly singled out by bullies. About half of all kids are victimized at least once a year.

Moreover, the younger a child, the more likely he or she is to experience aggression at the hands of peers. For if there's one thing bullies do, it's pick on children who are younger and smaller than they are. And weaker. Most bullies are physically strong and they specifically seek out kids who are ill-equipped to fight back.

...

Those who become targets also bear a particular set of psychological characteristics. They are more sensitive, cautious, and quiet than other kids, Olweus finds, and more anxious. They also have a negative view of violence. It's not just that they're non aggressive, for lots of kids are non aggressive. But these kids withdraw from confrontations of any kind and cry when attacked. They radiate what one researcher calls "an anxious vulnerability." Faced with conflict, they are gripped with fear. Their fearfulness and physical weakness probably set them up.

...

And they easily acquiesce to the demands of bullies: They cry and assume defensive postures. Not only do they not fight back, they hand over their possessions—handsomely rewarding their attackers psychologically and materially—powerfully reinforcing them. The reinforcement is double: Bullies are unlikely to be punished by retaliation.


The trick, then, is to get out of this victim profile. You can't do anything about being smaller and younger. But you CAN do something about the appearance of weakness.

1. The real first line of defense against a bully is self-confidence.

Bullies look for kids who send off "weak" signals. Quiet, away from other kids, hands in pockets, hunched.

Stand up straight. Look people in the eye. Smile. Be assertive. Act like you own the world. Act like you're not afraid, even if you're shaking in your boots.

2. NEVER reward a bully.

Bullies want two things: Your fear (they feed on it) and your stuff.

Don't give them your stuff. And never show them your fear. Don't react like a hunted animal. Be calm. Be self-controlled. Look them in the eye. NEVER throw the first punch, but make it plain you're not afraid to either give or receive pain.

Do you know that in the wild it's not unknown for a 150-pound human to fight off a 400-pound grizzly? Rare (http://www.udap.com/safety.htm), but it does happen.

And why is that? Because the human is fighting for his/her life. A bear just wants an easy meal, preferably with as little fighting as possible. Once the human demonstrates it's not easy meat, a predator will sometimes just go away and find something that doesn't give any fight at all.

Bullies, like predators, want easy meat. Show them that they're going to have to do some work to take you down, chances are good they won't. After all, if they had any work ethic they wouldn't be bullies, would they?

For that matter, some other things that work on bears also work on bullies.

* Go where they aren't.

Bullies don't like crowds or teachers. They also have places they like to hang out. So hang out with other kids -- preferably friends -- and with a lot of them. A bully wants a solo, easy target. By having a herd to hang out with, you can make yourself a much harder target. Another trick is to try to stick close to where Blind Betsy the playground monitor is. For some reason bullies don't like to do their business right in front of an adult.

Your bully may also have favorite 'hunting spots'. If you know where these are, it's probably wise to stay away from them.

* Recruit a friend. Observers find that having a friend on the playground is one of the most powerful protectives, especially for boys.

* In general, seek out the friendly children and build friendships with them.

Both of the above are really good ideas. Fellow humans, unlike spirits, tend to be very effective in the physical realm. And again, it makes you a harder target. Wolves in the wild look for lone sick animals on the outskirts of the herd. They don't like lots of creatures who stick together. Make friends and look out for each other. With luck, bullies will find something else to do.

* Use humor to defuse a bully who may be about to attack. Make a joke: "Look, Johnny, lay off. I don't want you to be late for school."

I've never had much luck with this, because I wasn't funny as a kid. But I've known some people in adult life who tells me this does work.

* Or tell the bully assertively, "Get a life. Leave me alone." And walk away.

I've had a bouncer recommend this for barroom brawls. It's a great idea for three reasons:

1) It might work.

2) If you say it loud enough and repeatedly, you can make a commotion and draw attention to what's happening. Who knows, maybe Blind Betsy will clue in.

3) If worse comes to worse, if you said it forcefully and demonstratively were walking away, no one can say you started it. That can be important in the principle's office later.

Both police in adult life and teachers on the playground punish everyone who's in a fight. You can avoid this sometimes by making it obvious to all observers that you are doing everything you can to stay out of trouble.


Some other thoughts:

* Get martial arts training.

I suggest karate. Having the ability to fight if you absolutely have to is a great confidence builder, and a good instructor will teach you both how to fight but also when it might be a good idea.

* Don't seek out fights, but don't run from them either.

If a bully thinks you're afraid of confrontation, he'll never stop picking on you. So the trick is -- if all the avoidance or defusing tricks above fail -- to fight. Make it hurt. You don't have to *win*. All you have to do is make it plain that there's a cost for fighting you. Once a bully realizes you're not afraid of him and will fight back, there's a good chance he'll look elsewhere for easier prey.

* NEVER go to the teachers.

This seems counter to some of what I said earlier, but there's a big difference between putting yourself in situations where Blind Betsy can see for herself what's going on, and actively going up to her and begging for her help.

This has three problems:

A) It makes you look weak.

B) It'll turn the rest of the kids against you. Kids HATE snitches and tattletales.

C) Either Blind Betsy will ignore the issue, or punish you, or punish the bully. In the third case, the bully will wait for you after school when she's not around. I encountered this quite a few times before I learned.

So the trick is to use Blind Betsy as a terrain feature, rather than as an actual ally, if you see the difference.

* DO go to your parents.

Your parents can go to the teachers and talk to them without getting you marked as a snitch. They also may be able to transfer you to another classroom, or school, or pay for the aforementioned martial arts training.

Good luck!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ilena]

This attactually happend about 2 hours ago ... i was getting ready to leave to go to work and i was just letting my mind drift, and i was kinda hearing this music in my head, not exacly the words (sometimes the words) but the music tone and all, not thinking anything of it i get into my car, turn on the radio and then that exact song is playing on the radio, im like .. wait .. wtf? and i dont even like that song very much!

and also i see no mention of spirit guides so far, do you have any information on them? Im interested in astral projection and all that kinda stuff, as well as clairvoiancy well control of it (for i am able to do it in my dreams randomly) and herblore as well if you wouldnt mind sending me a pm with any information on those topics that you have that would be great!

[Telonius]

A valid point. But I wasn't trying to argue that magic is completely worthless; I was trying to argue that it's not an automatic "I win" button. I don't think your point invalidates mine; it simply clarifies it a touch.

Even there, though, there's some room for quibbling. Gandhi had success, yes. But the British had held India for two hundred years prior, in the face of armed revolts such as the Indian Mutiny. Presumably magic was employed in these events as well.

Same with 'Baby Doc'. I've heard (http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/duvalier.html) that Baby Doc and his father were both Voodoo practitioners of some renown. Certainly Baby doc has been linked (http://www.wildhunt.org/2008/04/haitian-vodous-supreme-chief.html) with voodoo priests. So which was it? Did voodoo keep them in power, or did voodoo kick them out? The immediate cause of Duvalier's departure, remember, was the US Marines.

So I think you're going to have to do some work if you want to argue these two points as successes for magic.

And as you say, it's going to be even harder to differentiate 'magic' from 'crowd psychology'. Betsy Ross reputedly sewed the first American flag, which was a potent symbol; but I don't think that makes her a witch.

I look forward to your argument.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

A more detailed explanation of the Haiti examples would definitely violate forum rules, but I'll PM it to you. As for crowd psychology, my own opinion is that there's not much "super"-natural about magic. It's just causality we don't yet understand, we're not yet aware of, or we don't yet have the tools to test or explain. But "applied psychology" (not the actual field, just my own word for it) is one of the things that has often been associated with "magic" througout history. In folklore, the king's advisor is often a wizard or a dark sorcerer; the witch gives herbs that will cause people to fall in love. Even in modern English, an audience that is intently listening to a charismatic speaker is said to be "spellbound." And while we do understand some of the basics of the mechanisms of influence, we don't understand it thoroughly enough to make a clear distinction between cases where a speaker inserts an idea into an audience's heads, and cases where a speaker activates opinions that the audience came up with on their own. There's no test for it; it's more of an "art" than a "science." (I've heard of a BS in Political Science referred to as a BS in BS. :smallbiggrin:) I think that any sort of projecting a person's will onto other people falls more closely to magic (real things that we don't completely understand) than most other things that people commonly call "magic."

[happyturtle]

Me being a psychic sponge:

Had a problem customer today. I work in an office, and our customers are other businesses. The customer has already spent twenty minutes or so ranting at the new girl when new girl comes to me for advice. Now New Girl is very young and pregnant and a little flighty, and she can get overwhelmed easily, so I assumed it was probably not as bad as it seemed. So I call the customer.

He was exactly as bad as New Girl said. After about twenty minutes of various ranting, when he then started talking about how he thinks there's a conspiracy involved with my company trying to get two sets of our customers to go to war with each other, I decided I'd had enough, and passed him off to my manager.

He then had a go at Manager for another twenty minutes or so.

Anyway, I never lost my temper or went into tears or anything like that, but I had completely absorbed his frustration and anxiety, and felt it all through the rest of the day. Not nice.

(And it wasn't anxiety for myself, because Manager completely supports me and New Girl in what we said, and it is of zero consequence if customer never does business with us again.)

So that's the kind of thing I want to be able to shield against. I want other people's emotions to bounce off me instead of sticking.

[Ilena]

Ya that would suck, i shut off my emotions awhile back and i think thats why litterally nothing sticks to me from customers, its like ya ill be all empathy or whatever is required by the customer but once they are gone ... completely forgotten and i return to a nutural setting until the next one (while im working on returning to life instead of a shell it still sometimes comes back, horses help alot though!)

[fraud]

Fraud,

Don't neglect More mundane methods of self defense (http://psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=19950901-000020&page=4) either.

oh no I'm not afraid of the kids at school. I'm scared that my demon servents that I summon from the depths of hell will decide to kill me and I'll choke on my protection spell, espcially if I never master it...

[Collin152]

I'm scared that my demon servents that I summon from the depths of hell will decide to kill me and I'll choke on my protection spell, espcially if I never master it...

Ah, you're nowhere near summoning demons, and that isn't even the relevant protection spell.
So, you've got plenty of time to get better.

[fraud]

okay it's just one night I suddenly realised
"crap this is all real":smalleek:
I hope to master the protection spell soon, master

[Ganurath]

okay it's just one night I suddenly realised
"crap this is all real":smalleek:
I hope to master the protection spell soon, masterAdvice from having observed Wiccan friends who were still learning: There is a big difference between mastering a spell and attaining proficiency.

Collin: I've been trying to mimic the bubble thing you have fraud working on, just as an excercise in focus and energy manipulation... I can't contain it. It keeps bleeding off, generally arcing out the shoulders and floating ribs. I can replenish myself easily enough, but I can't hold control. Advice?

[fraud]

how can you tell? I can't tell if I'm doing it right or wrong. Maybe I'm not cut out for this magic stuff:smallfrown:

[mockingbyrd7]

I often get deja vu. As in, I'm looking at something and I realize: I've sat in this exact spot with these exact surroundings staring in this exact spot with the person who's talking to me saying exactly the same things. This. Has. Happened. Before. And then after about five seconds it completely fades.

My mom has had a few dreams that happened to her for real several years later. The only one I remember at the moment was this:
She dreamed she was riding a pony over a small hill and up to an apple tree or something like that. It happened about ten years later, everything completely identical. And she was riding a pony named "Prophecy".

My grandmother visited me in my dreams the night she passed away. I couldn't talk to her, but she was there, talking to my parents. I was positive she'd been there the night before, back from the hospital. But she was dead. It was the only sepia-toned dream I've ever had. :smalltongue:
That same night, her dog (who was across the country in Vermont) started barking in the middle of the night. He only barked in that manner when she was coming home.

I'm sure more has happened to me than that, but that's all I've got for now.

[Ganurath]

how can you tell? I can't tell if I'm doing it right or wrong. Maybe I'm not cut out for this magic stuff:smallfrown:Well, they tried to apply their skills as soon as they could get it to work in practice once. My advice, make sure you can get the spell to work consistently before trying to use it in a situation where it's needed.

[Kool-Aid]

I never really believed in magic, I'm a man of science, I believe that just about anything that exists can be explained. But I have first-hand seen the effects of what some would classify as "magic" and what others would classify as "science", but maybe, in a world where some things can be explained and others can't, the line between science and magic may be thinner than most think, maybe there's no line at all.

I have had visions into the future, I've seen ghosts appear before me and I can't explain any of it. The first encounter I've had with the paranormal was when I was only 5 or 6 years old, I was talking to my cousin and for reasons unknown to me, I said that I could sense an evil coming from the backyard. When my cousin thought I was just trying to scare her we looked out the window and turned the light on, and when I looked outside I was him. He was a man about 5 foot 10 inches tall, with a skinny yet somewhat muscley build, I could tell by looking at him that he was head for the back porch. In his hands he held a 2x4, fortunately the backyard's light scared him away since my house is built on a hill and he probably thought it was a spotlight due to the height of the backyard's light.

After he fled we called the police, they caught the man and identified him as one member of the local gang which the police soon shut down, it was after this that I started to realize that maybe everything didn't happen due to coincidence. I've had more experiences like that one, as did my parents before I did, I also attribute that fact that I have an uncanny ability to dodge things, and have never been hurt in a fight to "psychic intuition." After some research, although with a lack of specific details, I learned that my mother's ancestors were practitioners of druidism or "warlockery" as it is known in some parts of the world, and my father's ancestors were actually a bunch of fortune tellers.

Although I've been know to joke around at times, and have a less serious outlook on things, everything I have posted actually happened.

[fraud]

Well, they tried to apply their skills as soon as they could get it to work in practice once. My advice, make sure you can get the spell to work consistently before trying to use it in a situation where it's needed.

yeah but my problem is I can't tell what I'm doing wrong. I just sit there, cross legged and hands together meditating and I can't feel a thing. If I'm doing something wrong tell me. I try to focus my energy inside of me than imagine it as a bubble around me, I don't feel a thing!:smallfrown:

[Shademan]

yeah but my problem is I can't tell what I'm doing wrong. I just sit there, cross legged and hands together meditating and I can't feel a thing. If I'm doing something wrong tell me. I try to focus my energy inside of me than imagine it as a bubble around me, I don't feel a thing!:smallfrown:

is your back straight? 'cus if its not the air wont flow so easly trough you.
minor issue but details are important.
thats what kai told me atleast...

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I don't know if I can claim to believe in magic, really, but some really uncanny stuff has happened to me that can't really be explained by coincidence. A friend of mine I know online who lives in NY, I believe, at least somewhere on the east coast told me exactly what I was doing at that exact moment and five minutes previous. I am in southern CA and I know there are no cameras in my house... He claims to be the descendant of Amun-Ra and I find myself inclined to believe him.
Same guy, I was talking to him and another good friend of mine in a chat room, introducing the two because I told her about this dude and she was intrigued. It took seconds for him to tell her two of her most hidden personal secrets. Before I knew this guy I was fairly adamant in that I didn't believe in magic but now that I do... well, I don't know.

All my life I've had a weird knack for weird stuff, like flashes of memory I havn't had that ended up having later. I once had a dream during a somewhat terrible time on my psyche with my ex-girlfriend in it and she was wearing a particular shirt. She'd bought that shirt in between then and the next time we actually met, I'd dreamed of it before either of us knew of it's existence.
Lately I've been seeing weird stuff in everything, like these weird, blurry grey lines that run through all sorts of things. Actually, it's only grey and hazy when in dead or inanimate objects, and occasionally I'll see green and blue lines running through people.
This last one's kind of silly, and probably not in the least supernatural, but just me being in tune with my subconscious internal clock. I always seem to get up and reach the microwave the instant it's ready, sometimes I'm too early, by about 15 or 20 seconds, but that rarely ever happens.

[Telonius]

A wizard does not come to his microwave early, nor does it beep for him fifty times, annoying him and his whole family. He arrives precisely when the food is done. :smallbiggrin:

[Ganurath]

yeah but my problem is I can't tell what I'm doing wrong. I just sit there, cross legged and hands together meditating and I can't feel a thing. If I'm doing something wrong tell me. I try to focus my energy inside of me than imagine it as a bubble around me, I don't feel a thing!:smallfrown:Try holding the energy inside you for a moment, make sure you have control before attempting to build your bubble.

[Lupy]

I'm a little scared of magic, but that might be because it's so real for me. My grandparents houses have all been haunted by a poltergiest who follows them when they move, even over the atlantic. They have both seen him and I've seen obects moving on their own. He mostly seems to like to hide items like toothpaste to be annoying though.

I play the oboe, and ever since I started my family has heard it playing when I'm in the room with them and it's in their case. Additionally I have woken up before and seen a woman in her mid twenties sitting on my chair where I keep the oboe case playing it. She is always gone after I blink though. I call her Renard. The other time when I notice her is that when I enter my bedroom I feel a tingly sensation at the base of my spine and the hairs on my neck stand up. When I turn on the light she always leaves.

The final thing is the scariest for me:

If I let my self relax sometimes I leave my body and go... elsewhere. I feel my... soul I guess... leaving and head onto a grey road that goes on forever. The sky is grey, and off to either side are sometimes forset, sometimes plains. I see my dead pets there sometimes, my mother ((who is still very much alive)), my grandmother ((who is not alive)), and other things. I know that if I leave the road I will never go back to Earth. One time I was walking and saw a man with wings on the road, and he tried to get me to go with him into a door, I got scared and came back. Does anyone know what this place is?

EDIT: Some other things I've picked up along the way from these two spirits, and or my mother.

Neither one has ever entered a room with a locked door to the extent of my knowledge. They respond well to polite requests.

I have a very much supernatural dream that I hope neve comes true. I don't really want to talk about it here.

But how does one get a, for lack of a better word, scary, spirit to leave?

[Ilena]

First off im by no means an expert or even experienced but from the sounds of it it sounds like the astral plane but thats my guess

[Gorbash]

But how does one get a, for lack of a better word, scary, spirit to leave?

Ghost touch weapons, although ordinary magical will work 50% of the time. :smalltongue:

[Lupy]

That sounds very... right somehow Collin.

I have a few more questions:

When my animals and I all get scared of a certain patch of otherwise empty air, does that mean that there is something there?

Once I was on a campout awake after my friends fell asleep and we were in hammocks. I was at the end of the row on the woods side and I saw some eyes in the dark. I thought it was a fox and went to chase it off. When I got there, a broken doll was on the ground. :smalleek: It was very very scary. The doll was terrifying for some reason.

[fraud]

is your back straight? 'cus if its not the air wont flow so easly trough you.
minor issue but details are important.
thats what kai told me atleast...

You know I'm not sure it was. I'm usually in a hunchedback postion from on the time on the cpu so that might be the issue

[Vella_Malachite]

Can anyone give me some tips as to how to get onto the Astral Plane and/or astral project better? Sometimes, I can do it, but only rarely, and others, I just can't. Any tips, anyone?

[InABanana]

Hmm...this thread has captured my intrest. Someone fill me in on details.

[fraud]

Hmm...this thread has captured my intrest. Someone fill me in on details.

First let me say: Welcome to the thread:smallbiggrin:

and now I should say: it really dependes what you're looking for:
Magic is seperated into 7 catagories:
1.nigromancy (black magic)
2.geomancy (earth magic)
3.hydromancy (water magic)
4.aeromancy (air magic)
5.pyromancy (fire magic)
6.chiromancy (fortunetelling)
7.scapulimancy (practice of divination by use of scapulae)

so far Collin152 is attempting to teach me nigromancy which I just began.

[InABanana]

Which would you suggest if i am trying to control someone. Like do something for me, tell me something or use them as a puppet. And if i can't do that maybe I could try what it is your doing.

[fraud]

Mostly, the tight spots were when someone has almost caught me doing something I shouldn't (like teachers almost catching me and my friends swordfighting with sticks and homemade bows and arrows) and using powers of persuasion to convince the teachers we weren't actually doing anything. Coming up with a feasible explanation for sticks tied into bow shapes with piece of string isn't easy, you know; it's like a -5 to a Bluff check, but I mainly succeeded.

It didn't help when other chipped in a guilty "nothing", however :smallannoyed:

this is someone who knows what they're doing, Vella_Malachite. However I should also share what I'm doing. I'm practicing Nigromancy, summon of demons, right now I'm working on step #1, a protective spell which I can't get right!

[pendell]

It's not really my business, Fraud, but I have two questions:

1) Are you sure it's not 'necromancy'?

2) I don't really want to encourage this sort of thing at all, but I want to in particular point out two comments people have made earlier in the thread:

A) "Even the fair folk are less dangerous to anger than demons".

and

B) "It's hard to be on good terms with the spiritual world when you're trying to compel it".

So maybe .. just maybe .. it might be wise of you to try something a little less ambitious first, to develop your skills. Some other entity less dangerous than a demon. And you might consider *communicating* with it, rather than simply trying to bind or control it. If you've never led a dog through obedience training, how do you expect to tame a lion?

For that matter, how good are you at facing down other kids? If you don't have the strength of will to dominate another human, how do you expect to dominate a spirit?

Another small note : I think you're going to be disappointed. If you're hoping for a Final Fantasy-style summon where a big ugly red creature comes in and knocks other people flat on their faces for XXX -hit point damage -- well, it's not gonna happen.

If you want to make someone physically ill, possibly ill enough to die, or perhaps so psychologically mess up a person they take their own life, then you might be able to accomplish something. And then you'll bear the karmic responsibility for that person's life. But if you're hoping for an immediate effect? D&D-style battle magic a la Summon Monster VII? A big red "older brother" to come in and beat up other people for you? Uh uh.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ilena]

If im not mistaken necromancy deals with the dead (bodys and so forth i believe)

[Mr. Mud]

Necromancy is the Umbrella term (In most cases) but Crizon is right, necromancy, as itself, is just with corpses and such.

[Killersquid]

1) Are you sure it's not 'necromancy'?



He is quite right. Nigromancy (greek for Black Divinations) was said to be Black Magic to summon the denizens of Hades and Hell.

[pendell]

It seems we're both right (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigromancy)



Nigromancy (Greek nigro, "black"; manteia, "divination") is black magic, in particular, the summoning of denizens of Hell. The term was often used interchangeably with "necromancy" (divination through the dead) in mediaeval sources, however it properly relates to the summoning of demons and demonic varieties of goetic magic.


The way I'd heard of it was Goetic Magic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goetia). Since Fraud appears to be specifically referring to demonic summoning, I'd say he's right in this instance. Disregard point 1 above.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Destro_Yersul]

Anyone know any good luck spells? I get the feeling I might need one pretty soon.

Healing spells too, while I'm here. I don't expect any that work instantaneously, but it might be nice to have a little help now and then. I'm good at being nice to people, so I don't foresee a big problem with getting them to work either, at least if my wild guess on how they work is right.

[Ilena]

Quick question for you guys, has anyone who knows magic/ does magic, have you guys felt off since sunday? or anytime this week, like myself ive felt sick since sunday (wondering if its just me or something related to the planet or so forth)

[fraud]

I persoanally can't get to sleep. And when I wake up I can't get out of bed, this might be normal but I go to bed earlier and earlier but no diffrence. Also I have pretty odd dreams when I'm asleep


It's not really my business, Fraud, but I have two questions:

1) Are you sure it's not 'necromancy'?

2) I don't really want to encourage this sort of thing at all, but I want to in particular point out two comments people have made earlier in the thread:

A) "Even the fair folk are less dangerous to anger than demons".

and

B) "It's hard to be on good terms with the spiritual world when you're trying to compel it".

So maybe .. just maybe .. it might be wise of you to try something a little less ambitious first, to develop your skills. Some other entity less dangerous than a demon. And you might consider *communicating* with it, rather than simply trying to bind or control it. If you've never led a dog through obedience training, how do you expect to tame a lion?

For that matter, how good are you at facing down other kids? If you don't have the strength of will to dominate another human, how do you expect to dominate a spirit?

Another small note : I think you're going to be disappointed. If you're hoping for a Final Fantasy-style summon where a big ugly red creature comes in and knocks other people flat on their faces for XXX -hit point damage -- well, it's not gonna happen.

If you want to make someone physically ill, possibly ill enough to die, or perhaps so psychologically mess up a person they take their own life, then you might be able to accomplish something. And then you'll bear the karmic responsibility for that person's life. But if you're hoping for an immediate effect? D&D-style battle magic a la Summon Monster VII? A big red "older brother" to come in and beat up other people for you? Uh uh.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

I understand what you're saying but nigromancy is the only thing that interests. If you have anything to suggest I'd be more than happy to learn.

[pendell]

Fraud,

I'm a fundie Christian. The suggestion I *want* to give you is not one I can
make on this board :). I believe you would find that suggestion equally fulfilling if not more so.

But if you held me down and forced me at gunpoint, I would say that googling the phrase 'servitor creation' might be a more productive use of your time.

A servitor is a do-it-yourself spirit. More than a spell , less than an independent being, it is an expression of your will set loose.

I must admit that as a religious person it is one of the few things about magic that's actually tempting to me. As a childless person, the wish to bring another being into existence is very strong.

I would prefer you not to get involved in this at all. But if you're going to, I think servitors would be less dangerous than demons.

Respectfully,

Brian P.