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View Full Version : D&D Fourth Edition Discussion: What/why you like/hate it? (Read 1st post plz)



Bago!!!
2008-08-02, 07:27 PM
Okay, before we start this I would like to lay out some rules that I would like you guys to please abide by. I would like to keep it friendly.

1) THIS IS A DISCUSSION!
There is no right or wrong awnser in this whole thing. What we are trying to do is share our oppinions. Oppinions are not right or wrong right off the bat.

2) THIS IS NOT A DEBATE!
I ask that you please not make this into a debate for whatever reason. Debates become competitions. Please! Don't make this into a competition! They usually lead people getting hurt in some way or being talked down. If you want some competition, make your own thread, discussing the issue you find.

3) RULES OF ETIQUETTE!
Though we are not face to face, I would wish these rules to be applied. That means no talking down to someone, no flaming, no trolling (which seem to happen alot on 4 ed threads from what I've read), and no belitting. If you disagree with someone's oppinion, then please post it without belitting. There are other rules, but they are really common sense. (Simple version of it: Do unto others as you would like to have done onto you.) Please don't be an ass about this rules.

4) PRIVATE MESSAGES ARE THERE FOR A REASON!
If you have meat with someone, don't drag everyone else into it, private message the person.


Now, thats it for now. Will change if I find a new rule to be made or something. If you can't go by the rules for some reason, just leave this thread be or pm for whatever reason. Thank you.

FoE
2008-08-02, 08:05 PM
What do you mean by "have meat with someone?"

Vortling
2008-08-02, 08:08 PM
This can only end in flames and tears.

darkzucchini
2008-08-02, 09:03 PM
This can only end in flames and tears.

Well, looks like we are off to a good start already.

Snide comments aside, I will be straight forward with my bias. I do not like the new direction that D&D has taken under 4e. I am not one of those neophobes who hates 4e solely because it is replacing a game that I already know and am used to, I am do not hate it because I would have to dish out more money to buy new books (I haven't bought D&D books for a number of years, yet I seem to have nearly all that WotC has published... YARR!!!), I was actually rather apathetic towards the new addition when I first heard of it, hoping that WotC would some nice changes to an already good system, but anticipating that they would scrap all that was great (in my opinion) about 3.5 for something completely new. Turns out I was right to be skeptical.

Now thats not to say that I don't like everything in 4e, here are a couple of things that I do like.

1. Bringing in class roles. Yes, it does make the game more like WoW and other MMOs, but it would be nice for the fighter to actually be able to protect the caster instead of the enemy ignoring his AoO and swarming the mage. Plus it allows said fighter to contribute more to combat than just making a full attack every round. That being said, I am not a huge fan of the marking system and a lot of the powers of classes seemed based too much (my opinion again) around a game like system without enough root in reality (I don't think you should be able to push a dragon back 15 ft. without the dragon having a huge chance of resisting said push back, see Mountain Breaking Blow, PHB pg. 83).

Ok, so maybe there is only one thing that I perceive as a good change from 3.5 at the moment, though more may come up as I continue to read the books, play test the game, and just plain think about it.

However, there are many more aspects of the new addition that I dislike, to put it lightly.

1. Alignments. The changes were totally pointless. Would some 4e supporter please explain to me why this change was good let alone necessary. I, for one, would have liked to have seen a more complex alignment system, like the one from Monte Cook's Book of Hallowed Might.

2. Skills. I like my profession and class skills. I do believe that the old system needed some changes, some skills redone (Diplomacy, I am looking at you), more skills given out in general, done away with lower rank cap for CC skills (or maybe even eliminated CC skills all together and replaced them with class skill group ala Iron Heroes).

3. Powers. They just don't feel right for any of the classes. I don't think that the mundane classes (fighter, ranger, rogue ect.) should run run out of abilities and I don't like the idea of the mage being turned into a Magic Missile machine gun.

4. Minions. I don't like cinematic games, critical hits are for killing creatures in one hit.

5. Spells. Most of those cool utility spells have been changed to rituals, ended much in combat ingenuity. Magic also just doesn't seem all that epic any more.

6. NPCs. I don't like the idea of PCs being run on a different system from NPCs. In my opinion, the world does not revolve around the PCs, the PCs are instead part of the world and the spotlight has been fixed on them for story reasons. PCs should be no different than the NPCs that they live amongst.

I believe that those are the big ones that I can think of at the moment. Perhaps more to come.

Roland St. Jude
2008-08-02, 09:16 PM
This can only end in flames and tears.

Not necessarily.

Sheriff of Moddingham: We already have threads on why people like/dislike/don't care about 4e as well as numerous topical 4e threads. Another general 4e thread isn't really needed. I appreciate the "let's all give our opinions without debating or arguing" in theory, but the internet does not work that way. Plus, I'm not sure what a list of likes and dislikes would accomplish if people weren't able to discuss those things.

We have a rather thorough set of Forum Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1) that governs all discussions on this board. Starting a new thread with strict topical or behavioral rules is generally futile at best and an invitation to violate them at worst.

Anyway, please see one or more of the other threads on the topic.

Thread locked.