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JackMage666
2008-08-02, 08:36 PM
So, while playing around, I found a way for a 4e rogue to do some massive damage to a single enemy, once a day. This damage is high, but shouldn't be enough to kill a Solo enemy, but enough to take a huge chunk out of it's life. Pound for pound, though, it should be able to kill pretty much any other PC (useful for arena combat), or several other enemies. I'll illustrate the trick using a 30th level Rogue (built at highest level for maximum effect, though the basics of the trick can be done at much lower level, since the huge key is the Rogue power Knockout.)

Character built is, for sake of ease, a Human, who bought his Dex to 16 and Str to 14 with point buy (not unlikely.) Putting the ability bonus into Dex, of course. By 30th level, putting ever level up ability point into Dex and Str, you'll end up with 26 Dex and 22 Str. Over the course of several levels, recommended feats are Backstabber, Weapon Focus (Light Blades), Nimble Blade, Improved Initiative, Weapon Proficiency (Rapier), and Danger Sense. These will let you hit hard and generally act first, and should be easy enough to manage, Shield Proficiencys might help with AC, too, and several other feats are available to help you out, so this is not just a one trick pony. Likewise, if you really want to be a Daggermaster paragon, skip the rapier proficiency cause it's less necessary - You'll do less damage on average, but the higher chance of Crits means you might do more.

The Power's you'll need -
Knockout (Rogue 9 Daily)
Assassin's Point (Rogue 29 Daily)

Equipment Needed -
Vicious Rapier (+6) (Level 27 Item)
Gauntlets of Destruction (Recommended, not necessary) (Level 18 Item)
Belt of Titan Strength (Level 25 Item)

The Move -
1. Enter combat. You should be going first (You'll have a +27 to Initiative, more if a Warlord's around ect [15 Level + 8 Dex + 4 Improved Initiative] AND you get to roll twice and take the better of the two rolls [Thanks to Danger Sense])
2. With luck, you'll be in combat range, meaning you can move and attack, and have combat advantage. It's not needed, but it helps. Also, you could do this in mid-combat, while flanking (You need to be in melee range, though, and it's definitely easiest to do this first round).
3. Prepare to piss off your DM.
4. Go ahead and use the Belt of Titan's Strength's Daily Power. The Damage bonus will help.
5. Use Knockout. Dex vs. Fort. You should have a +36 to hit [15 Levels + 8 Dex + 1 Weapon Focus + 1 Nimble Blade + 3 Proficiency + 6 Enhancement + 2 Combat Advantage] before any of your allies buffs or anything like that. DO NOT USE YOUR SNEAK ATTACK YET. You'll deal 3dW+24 (3d8+24 damage, 37.5 Average, with a rapier) and knock the opponent unconscious (Save Ends, but that's not important. He'll be awake if this all fails, from the damage, but he'll have a huge hangover.)
6. Spend an Action Point to gain a Standard Action
7. Use Assassin's Point as a Coup de Grace on your now unconscious foe. You Crit. You want to use your Sneak Attack now, too. You deal the enemy 7W+30+12d12+10d8 damage (With a Rapier, 219 damage)
8. Collect Loot.

Conclusion -
In one round, you dealt on average 256.5 Damage with your Rapier to an enemy. What's more, if the enemy's bloodied HP is 219 (on average) or less, it dies instantly from the Coup de Grace. It won't kill a Solo enemy, most likely, but it'll take a nice chunk out of it, which is a good way to start the combat.

Against another PC, you kill him. A fighter, with Toughness, who maxed out Con the same way you did Dex and has Toughness, has 230 HP. In other words, no other player should piss you off.

I know it's not the cheesiest trick ever, but with 4e the cheesy tricks are few an in between. I think it's a pretty nice find, though - Any suggestions?

Kiara LeSabre
2008-08-02, 08:40 PM
I knew about this already. You'll find that, in general, melee tricks are stronger and have more burst damage in them than ranged ones. Rogues do have a nice melee burst damage effect.

Melee rangers have an even nicer one (even with the change limiting you to five hits, it's still potentially stronger).

MartinHarper
2008-08-02, 08:49 PM
Why wait till level 29? Knockout + Action Point is a decent strategy at level 9.


Against another PC, you kill him.

Unless he's a Demi-God or an Archmage, or a Fighter with No Surrender, or...

JackMage666
2008-08-02, 09:02 PM
Why wait till level 29? Knockout + Action Point is a decent strategy at level 9.



Unless he's a Demi-God or an Archmage, or a Fighter with No Surrender, or...

True, it's a good strategy at any level, but the Assassin's Point helps greatly.

And, yes there are ways around it, but either way you took a huge chunk out of them, probably before they could even act. I mean, if they're acting like they already died once by round 2, you're doin' pretty good.

wodan46
2008-08-02, 09:22 PM
Seen it before. Knock Out and Assassin's Point are the 2 best rogue powers.

Wizards can top this easily with Bloodpulse+Elemental Maw.

Deals 33d6+54d10+Int*3+Enhancement*3=457.5 damage or so to all enemies in a 5 by 5 area, at least 400+ per target, assuming both attacks land.

Koolzo
2008-08-02, 09:27 PM
Just one quick thing: Weapon Focus, in 4th edition, is +1 to damage, not to hit.

Other than that, DAYUM! Very nice.

Helgraf
2008-08-03, 12:13 AM
Just one quick thing: Weapon Focus, in 4th edition, is +1 to damage, not to hit.

Other than that, DAYUM! Very nice.

More to the point, it's +1 damage per tier. [+1 at heroic, +2 paragon, +3 damage at epic]

This is why I often have dwarven builds retrain Dwarven Weapon Proficiency into Weapon Focus (Axes or Hammers depending on build) at 21st level.

JackMage666
2008-08-03, 06:30 AM
Seen it before. Knock Out and Assassin's Point are the 2 best rogue powers.

Wizards can top this easily with Bloodpulse+Elemental Maw.

Deals 33d6+54d10+Int*3+Enhancement*3=457.5 damage or so to all enemies in a 5 by 5 area, at least 400+ per target, assuming both attacks land.

I don't think that trick works quite as well as you think. Bloodpulse says it deals 1d6 damage for each square the opponent leaves, and you only leave one square when you teleport. Now, if it said it deals 1d6 damage for each square moved, it'd be different (though, I think there's a power somewhere that does that... But you might need to multiclass...)

So, my calculations (26 Int at 30th, again) say... 14d6 [91 Average, 6d6 Elemental Maw + 3d6 Pulled into Vortex + 2d6 Blood Pulse + 3d6 3 Squares Left] + 24 [Int*3, basically] + 8d10 [88 Average, Bolstering Blood, though I'm thinking this is pretty cheesy, counting the Bolstering Blood several times in one turn, just for numbers sake I won't argue] = 203 Damage on Average. Still strong, but

Tyrael
2008-08-03, 09:53 AM
Heheheh, "massive blow"....*snicker*:smallamused:

wodan46
2008-08-03, 09:57 AM
Most of the damage from Elemental Maw comes from when you teleport them 20 squares DIRECTLY UPWARDS. They take 10d10 fall damage, then an additional 10d6+20d10 Blood Pulse damage. This is on top of the damage from bloodpulse attack damage, maw attack damage, the pull from the maw, and the center maw damage.