Eragon's(first one) dragon's name.

[Linkavitch]

In Eragon, when Brom is relating the tale of how the Rider's got started, he mentioned the first Dragon Rider's dragon's name:Bid'Daum. And yet, in Eldest, Oromis said that the first Dragon Rider's dragon's name cannot be spoken in any language. Is this an oversight on Christopher Paulini's, Brom's or Oromis' part?

[Mx.Silver]

In Eragon, when Brom is relating the tale of how the Rider's got started, he mentioned the first Dragon Rider's dragon's name:Bid'Daum. And yet, in Eldest, Oromis said that the first Dragon Rider's dragon's name cannot be spoken in any language. Is this an oversight on Christopher Paulini's, Brom's or Oromis' part?
Maybe Bid'Daum (dig that craaaaazy apostrophe) is ancient-speak for 'name which cannot be spoken in any language'?

[Turcano]

Maybe Bid'Daum (dig that craaaaazy apostrophe) is ancient-speak for 'name which cannot be spoken in any language'?

No, it's backwards-speak for "Paul Atreides' Fremen name."

[Mx.Silver]

No, it's backwards-speak for "Paul Atreides' Fremen name."

What? Are you seriously suggesting that Paulini would do something so unoriginal and unimaginative? What do you think Eragon is, some sort of rip-off? :smallwink:

[RabbitHoleLost]

No, it's backwards-speak for "Paul Atreides' Fremen name."

Cause, as we know, Paulini can't come up with anything original.

@^ Ouch. You got to it before me.

[Sneak]

I can't really answer the question, but I think every thread on GitP about Eragon is doomed from the start...they all just devolve into an Eragon-bashing fest and then into the inevitably arguments.

Anyway, I'm guessing it was just an oversight on Paolini's part, but as I don't really remember much from the books, I can't really say.

[Trizap]

..............why does everyone hate the Inheritance Trilogy? they're my favorite two books :smallfrown:

[Mx.Silver]

..............why does everyone hate the Inheritance Trilogy? they're my favorite two books :smallfrown:

They don't. They just pretend they do to make you personally feel unpopular:smalltongue:


Seriously though, I've never read it and don't feel compelled to so I don't really have an opinion on it and probably never will.

[RabbitHoleLost]

..............why does everyone hate the Inheritance Trilogy? they're my favorite two books :smallfrown:

Having read part of the first one, I will say its because, in my own opinion, its poorly written and is actually just a mashing of Star Wars, LotR, Dune, and some crazy dragons.

[Bryn]

..............why does everyone hate the Inheritance Trilogy? they're my favorite two books :smallfrown:

A word of friendly warning: Get out of this thread now. Believe me, people will not stop at convincing you otherwise, and once your enjoyment of a book (or show, game, etc.) is ruined, it will be forever. Also, never even go close to Anti-Shurtugal, and quickly run away if Eragon ever comes up in a thread here. Only way to be safe :smalltongue:

Speaking of which, isn't Eragon-bashing a dead horse by now guys? :smallamused:

[RabbitHoleLost]

Pffft! It never gets boring to bash something that makes us writhe with jealousy and mutter "I could have done that. Why didn't I do that?"

[Sneak]

..............why does everyone hate the Inheritance Trilogy? they're my favorite two books :smallfrown:

There's nothing really WRONG with them per se, it's just that they're incredibly derivative. Personally, I prefer original books to not too original books. They're fine for what they are (trashy fantasy), but they (and Paolini) also seem to take themselves a little too seriously. Also, there's a large amount of hate directed towards the series because of the fact that Paolini was able to get a fairly unpolished (and poorly written) book published due to family connections, a fact that leads to bitterness towards Paolini from unpublished or aspiring writers.

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

Quite frankly there aren't overly many works that aren't just a mashing of different things with Star Wars, LotR, or Dune, or any combination of the three. There are a few less but still a good amount of things with crazy-arse dragons. There is nothing new under the sun.

Especially that sentence.

[Sneak]

Quite frankly there aren't overly many works that aren't just a mashing of different things with Star Wars, LotR, or Dune, or any combination of the three. There are a few less but still a good amount of things with crazy-arse dragons. There is nothing new under the sun.

Especially that sentence.

Personally, I'm not sure I agree with that. Yes, there are tropes, conventions, and the like, but I would argue that most [good] books' storylines are not utterly derivative. Eragon's storyline clearly is.

[Mx.Silver]

Quite frankly there aren't overly many works that aren't just a mashing of different things with Star Wars, LotR, or Dune, or any combination of the three.


Mortal Engines
Tales of the Otori
A Song of Ice and Fire
The Farseer Trilogy
The Ki and Vandian Quartet
His Dark Materials


That's just off the top of my head, there are plenty of works that aren't particularly derivative of any of those three. Besides, originality isn't about inventing something entirely new and previously unthought of, it's about taking existing memes and combining them in new ways.

[Em Blackleaf]

Maybe what he meant was that it shouldn't be said by anyone or something?
I actually don't know.
Maybe Paolini's just inconsistent?


Do you think Eragon's dragon will turn green? :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:
(Come to the darksideee).

*Has said enough*
*Slinks off*

But, really, I've read Eragon and Eldest. And I kinda liked them. Not my favorite books, but they were okay.

[Lord Herman]

Do you think Eragon's dragon will turn green? :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

And start to talk like Yoda, it will.


But seriously, Bid'Daum? That's just awful.

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

Personally, I'm not sure I agree with that. Yes, there are tropes, conventions, and the like, but I would argue that most [good] books' storylines are not utterly derivative. Eragon's storyline clearly is.

Well, I'll agree with you on that. I was generalizing too much. I was just using what RHL said for it. 'Course, those three must at least in part be derived from previous ideas, themselves derived of even earlier things.

But seriously, I think people are a little too hung up about Eragon. Yes, he's derivative. Yes, there are betters authors out there. Yes, there are better ways of being published. Do we really have to reheat all that every time someone says 'Eragon'?

[TRM]

Quite frankly there aren't overly many works that aren't just a mashing of different things with Star Wars, LotR, or Dune, or any combination of the three. There are a few less but still a good amount of things with crazy-arse dragons. There is nothing new under the sun.

Especially that sentence.


Having read part of the first one, I will say its because, in my own opinion, its poorly written and is actually just a mashing of Star Wars, LotR, Dune, and some crazy dragons.

These are the two most overused arguments regarding Eragon; every single Eragon thread I've ever seen eventually devolves into these two camps bashing each other constantly. *sigh*


But seriously, Bid'Daum? That's just awful.
I don't even remember Bid'Daum ever being mentioned; the books can't have been to memorable.

[Closet_Skeleton]

These are the two most overused arguments regarding Eragon; every single Eragon thread I've ever seen eventually devolves into these two camps bashing each other constantly. *sigh*

Obviously, if it were a good series, there would be more to say about it.

[Mewtarthio]

Besides, originality isn't about inventing something entirely new and previously unthought of, it's about taking existing memes and combining them in new ways.

Great. Now I've got an image of King Leonidas holding a cake and screaming "This! Is! A Liiiiiiiiieeeeee!" while Chuck Norris retorts "O RLY?"

Next time, us the word "tropes." :smallannoyed:

[Pandaren]

Great. Now I've got an image of King Leonidas holding a cake and screaming "This! Is! A Liiiiiiiiieeeeee!" while Chuck Norris retorts "O RLY?"

Next time, us the word "tropes." :smallannoyed:

Chuck Norris doesn't say popular internet memes. Ever.


I agree, dead horse at best. But in my opinion, anything that can gett my stupid-#$^ generation to read(i.e. Harry Potter) can't be all bad. Well it can. Is. But. The reading thing.

[Mx.Silver]

Great. Now I've got an image of King Leonidas holding a cake and screaming "This! Is! A Liiiiiiiiieeeeee!" while Chuck Norris retorts "O RLY?"

Next time, us the word "tropes." :smallannoyed:

I meant memes in the non-internet sense, as in idea or thought process. It's not quite the same thing as a trope, as a meme can usually involve smaller details than tropes are concerned with often relating to setting or characters or even underlying philosophical themes.

[Shosuro Ishii]

..............why does everyone hate the Inheritance Trilogy? they're my favorite two books :smallfrown:

The trilogy itself is very very derivative, but more importantly(from my PoV at least) Paloni has a much bigger ego than his writing skill entitles him to.

[Sneak]

Great. Now I've got an image of King Leonidas holding a cake and screaming "This! Is! A Liiiiiiiiieeeeee!" while Chuck Norris retorts "O RLY?"

Next time, us the word "tropes." :smallannoyed:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4334/orlyph8.gif

[Helanna]

I think of Eragon the same way I do Twilight, and probably other books I haven't read. The books are good, or at least okay. But they get WAY too much media attention - much, much more than they deserve. So eventually everybody who thought 'meh' or didn't like it gets pushed into the "this book sucks and should never have been published and everyone who likes it is a moron" camp - which is an exaggeration. Everybody who thought it was good tries to defend it from these people and becomes the "This book is perfect and the author is a GOD" camp. Which is also an exaggeration.

And the other 98% of the population has a life and doesn't care :smalltongue:

But seriously, I can understand why people hate it - they hate the hype, really. And who can blame them? There are at least 20 authors I can think of off the top of my head who deserve a lot of media attention, but never really get it - their books are popular, but don't get many new readers because the media is busy covering derivative/badly-written/poorly thought out/whatever books instead of the REAL good books.

I'm done overthinking things now. (I just got back from a family reunion. I'm in the mood to talk to people who, frankly, aren't morons.)


But in my opinion, anything that can gett my stupid-#$^ generation to read(i.e. Harry Potter) can't be all bad.

AMEN. This apathetic feeling seems to have even infected my READING CLUB. For some reason, all the books on the list this year either suck or are really short stories. I suggested we read Terry Pratchett. We're reading a short story by him that's about one page long, and none of the other popular authors my friend and I suggested were chosen. Instead we get crap.

. . . I type WAY too much after spending time with my family. I'm done hijacking the thread now, I swear!

[Foeofthelance]

I think of Eragon the same way I do Twilight, and probably other books I haven't read. The books are good, or at least okay. But they get WAY too much media attention - much, much more than they deserve. So eventually everybody who thought 'meh' or didn't like it gets pushed into the "this book sucks and should never have been published and everyone who likes it is a moron" camp - which is an exaggeration. Everybody who thought it was good tries to defend it from these people and becomes the "This book is perfect and the author is a GOD" camp. Which is also an exaggeration.

On this, I sort of agree, but I think there's one flaw with the argument in general: I've never heard of any major writing flaws, inconsistencies, or author failures in the Twilight series, save for one in the end, and that one was not only handwaved, but probably inevitable considering the nature of the series. (If anyone has otherwise, please share so we can compare. :smallbiggrin: I admit to having never read the books, I simply haven't seen the same complaints leveled. ) Meyer simply wrote a series that introduce teens to the same material (albeit cleaned up a little) that Laura K. Hamilton and Anne Rice have been peddling for years. I'm fairly sure, however, that when she first submitted Twilight the first thing her publisher's editor did was pull out a hatchet and set to work. Its simply what editors do. The same thing has happened to pretty much every major author. Some, such as Robert Heinlein, were the better off for it. Some, such as Stephen King, have apparently grown out of it and suffer for it.

And then in the end you have Paolini. As far as anyone has managed to determine, his parents essentially went out and purchased http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProtectionFromEditors for their son. I've read the books, and I didn't hate them, and to be honest I will probably read Brisngr. But I won't reread them. When David Weber put out At All Costs, I reread the entire Honor Harrington series first. I've reread my Dragonlance books more than half a dozen times each, whether it is the original trilogy or the Draconian books. My Pratchett novels are just as well thumbed. Paolini is simply too meh, his books, too dry, and the only reason they did so well, as far as anyone can determine, is the media hype surrounding the first one because of the age he was when he started writing it. There was almost no coverage for Eldest, and no has even mentioned Brisngr despite the fact that it should be coming out soon.

Unfortunately, when it comes to ego Paolini apparently has it in abundance, and many of us see it as undeserved. Which, to a point it is. I've climbed mountains before, but me claiming to be as good as Sir Edmund Hillary is ludicrous, especially since I've never even been on the same continent as Mt. Everest. Paolini, on the other hand, considers himself the next Tolkein. Yet while they both had Protection, Tolkein at least had the decency to become a literary professor at Oxford first. In my opinion, what Paolini needs is really a good editor, preferably one proficient with a chainsaw.

[Reinforcements]

..............why does everyone hate the Inheritance Trilogy? they're my favorite two books :smallfrown:
Sorry Trizap, but the Inheritance series are by far the worst fantasy novels I've ever read - and I've read books by R. A. Salvatore, Terry Brooks, and Terry Goodkind, so I've read a lot of bad fantasy novels. Goodkind makes me feel the most uncomfortable, though.

Oh, and I never saw much in the way of Dune in Inheritance. Dib'Maud (seriously? I never noticed that one before) would just be one of the myriad examples of how Paolini can't make up names to save his life. I mean, Saphirra. Guess what color she is? Eragon. What letter comes before "E"?

[Mr. Mud]

No, it's backwards-speak for "Paul Atreides' Fremen name."

Woo! Dune!! :smallamused:

Maybe Brom and Oromis have conflicting views on who actually was first? Or, Maybe what Brom said was the closest explaination of the name.:smallconfused:

Anyhow, when is the 3rd book being released?

[Stupendous_Man]

Sorry Trizap, but the Inheritance series are by far the worst fantasy novels I've ever read - and I've read books by R. A. Salvatore, Terry Brooks, and Terry Goodkind, so I've read a lot of bad fantasy novels. Goodkind makes me feel the most uncomfortable, though.

Oh, and I never saw much in the way of Dune in Inheritance. Dib'Maud (seriously? I never noticed that one before) would just be one of the myriad examples of how Paolini can't make up names to save his life. I mean, Saphirra. Guess what color she is? Eragon. What letter comes before "E"?

i thought eragon came from aragorn

i kinda called eragon aragorn for a while before i noticed that eragon had an e in it.

[Reinforcements]

i thought eragon came from aragorn

i kinda called eragon aragorn for a while before i noticed that eragon had an e in it.
People say that, and Paolini definitely stole a ****-ton of names from Lord of the Rings, but I dunno. Changing the first letter of the word "dragon" to the next letter of the alphabet seems too obvious, especially when you're doing things like naming the blue dragon after a word that means "blue".

[Siosilvar]

Great. Now I've got an image of King Leonidas holding a cake and screaming "This! Is! A Liiiiiiiiieeeeee!" while Chuck Norris retorts "O RLY?"

Next time, use the word "tropes." :smallannoyed:

Sig'd.
That is all.

[Deth Muncher]

Pffft! It never gets boring to bash something that makes us writhe with jealousy and mutter "I could have done that. Why didn't I do that?"

And some people went on to do better than that.


For example... (www.fanfiction.net/s/4369859/1/The_Stupendously_Superior_Story )

[Helanna]

I've never heard of any major writing flaws, inconsistencies, or author failures in the Twilight series, save for one in the end, and that one was not only handwaved, but probably inevitable considering the nature of the series

The major failing of the Twilight series is that the main characters are mostly Mary Sues. I still really enjoy the books - I will reread them and I think they are infinitely better than Eragon, not that that's saying much. I've also heard that the series uses too much purple prose, but I personally never saw anything in that. Maybe I'm just comparing it to Tokien, Robert Jordan, and Eragon, but I don't really see any purple prose. What flaw were you talking about, though, that was handwaved?

Fun fact: Purple prose CAN be done right, if you like that sort of writing style. Now, two of the above authors did it right. One did not. Guess which one's the failure!

EDIT: Thanks for the link to the story, Deth Muncher. I didn't realize that Solo had continued it. It seemed to just drop off the forums, and I thought it had disappeared.

[Turcano]

..............why does everyone hate the Inheritance Trilogy? they're my favorite two books :smallfrown:

I gave a general run-down in the last thread, which can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4470523&postcount=144).

[Foeofthelance]

What flaw were you talking about, though, that was handwaved?

Spoilers ahead, and I may break the code, so eh.

Apparently Bella gets pregnant, something that was established to be an impossibility. Admittedly, I got this off of TvTropes, so its veracity is 50/50. Again, considering this is effectively a romance series as far as I can tell, that's not a bad thing, just something that possibly shouldn't have been established in the first place. On the other hand, it makes the Power of Love all the more anvilicious for the series, so eh. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

Again, considering the nature of the series, whether or not it is true or not, that's an acceptable inconsistency. Flawlessly clean butcher shops, the overly drawn out styles, and the head scratching moments when faced with things such as vegetarian dragon riders... Sorry, those fail. You can hide the fact you know nothing about your setting all you want with purple prose, but again it comes down to having someone chasing your manuscript with sharp implements. Meyers can be as purple as she wants with her prose, she has editors to go. "Um, this makes no sense!" Paolini just sounds horribly uninformed, and then acts proud about it.

On the Mary Sues, I don't mind so much, so long as they're handled well, and the plot can carry it. Basically if the other characters are exlaiming "Impossible!" about his/her actions every other paragraph, it's been handled badly. Being a flat character otherwise just means if it wasn't for the exciting things happening to you, you'd be a really boring person. Which, considering the nature of the world, isn't very hard to believe.

[Mr. Scaly]

A question.

Why does anyone like a book/series that the rest of the world sees as horrible?

[Sneak]

A question.

Why does anyone like a book/series that the rest of the world sees as horrible?

SUBJECTIVITY. Look it up.

Seriously, though. And I don't even think "the rest of the world" hates Eragon, it's just that this forum is largely populated by Eragon-haters. I'm not trying to defend Eragon here, but personal preference is, well, personal.

[konfeta]

Why does anyone like a book/series that the rest of the world sees as horrible?

You live in a world where people watch American Idol, blindly obey the will of Oprah, and demand more hilarious/unique Adam Sandler movies.

Why bother asking that question?

[Mr. Scaly]

Subjectivity is such bull sometimes though. At the risk of turning things philosophical, 'a certain point of view' is so often just an excuse. And I ask the question because I'm morbid, though I do think that American Idol should be burned.

Personally I read the book out of curiosity. I got halfway through before quitting in disappointment.

[Innis Cabal]

It may be bull and it may lead to awful things, but in the end, its no less true today then it was 100 years ago, or any less true in the world 100 years from now.

[Stupendous_Man]

hey, maybe this could be relavent

Feinmoor Cooper's Literary Offenses (http://ww3.telerama.com/~joseph/cooper/cooper.html)

see if any apply to eragon

according to this eragaon sporkings page, it does

Mark Twain Early Sporker (http://eragon-sporkings.wikispaces.com/Mark_Twain)

[Mortith]

Are you talking about the Movie or the book? The movie totally blows, they tottally messed up the whole plotline, so don't trust anything it says.

[Mr. Mud]

Are you talking about the Movie or the book? The movie totally blows, they tottally messed up the whole plotline, so don't trust anything it says.

All too true... I almost bought the game... Almost. Anyways, when is book 3 coming out (in the States :smallconfused:?) I can't wait to finish the Series

[/geek]

[Turcano]

Are you talking about the Movie or the book? The movie totally blows, they tottally messed up the whole plotline, so don't trust anything it says.

He was referring to the book.


Anyways, when is book 3 coming out (in the States :smallconfused:?) I can't wait to finish the Series

You'll have to wait some more (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrilogyCreep), then.

[Mr. Mud]

You'll have to wait some more (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrilogyCreep), then.

Bleh :smallyuk:. Paolini is alwayas pulling stuff like this. Anyone know when the next installment comes out though?

Sometime in Mid-Late August right? :smallconfused:.