3.5 UA Paragon classes?

[hotel_papa]

WAY back in the day when I first picked up a copy of Unearthed Arcana, I was really interested, for some reason, by the paragon classes.

For those who don't know, the paragon classes were three-level mini classes, one for each core race and a few extra (drow, half-dragon, aasimar and tiefling) which improved racial traits, simulated favored classes and each ended with a +2 bump in a relevant ability score. Roleplay-wise, you were a "Dwarf's Dwarf", etc.

Does anyone ever use these? Could three levels -> +2 to an ability ever be justified in a viable build? I'd like to see some examples. I never thought paragons got the love they deserved.

HP

[AmberVael]

I've used the Human Paragon class before. They're not bad classes, but ultimately they work best when you use classes that don't have level dependent abilities with them.
Sadly, there are very, very few classes like that.

[Skjaldbakka]

I use them a lot as a DM. They've pretty much replaced NPC classes in my games (except adept).

Since most npcs with more than 3 levels that you bother statting aren't gonna have NPC classes anyway.

[LibraryOgre]

I like them; I also allow people who do not yet have a caster level to gain one from their Paragon levels (i.e. a 3rd level Elf Paragon will be a 2nd level wizard, effectively).

[KillianHawkeye]

I use them a lot as a DM. They've pretty much replaced NPC classes in my games (except adept).

Since most npcs with more than 3 levels that you bother statting aren't gonna have NPC classes anyway.

Hmm... that's a pretty good idea. I like it!

[arguskos]

I really like the Paragon classes. Though they aren't really that amazing, I did have a player who ran a Human Paragon 3/Ranger 5/Horizon Walker 4 in one of my games. He loved that character, and he performed pretty decently.

-argus

[Rashmi]

They are a standard in my Gish builds, they are somewhat useful for other things. And the Human Paragon especially is pretty awesome giving any ten class skills (including UMD) a free feat, and +2 to any stat.

I mean, it's not super optimal, but I'd take a Wizard 1/Human Paragon 3/Wizard 7 over a Sorcerer 11 any day, and Sorcerer 10 isn't weak.

In fact, that Wizard/Paragon build is arguably as viable as Wizard 11.

[Chronos]

None of them have full spellcasting progression, which decreases their appeal for spellcasters, but the Orc, Half-Orc, and Dwarf paragons all give full BAB, which makes them viable for warrior types. This is especially so, given that you can take paragon levels well before you could qualify for any PrC.

They're also very nice in gestalt builds, since you can use three of your off-side levels (or only one or two, if you get spellcasting progression) to pick up the ability score boost.

[AmberVael]

Come to think of it, the paragon classes could be useful pieces in Gish builds. Not only do human and elf paragon classes give 2/3s spellcaster progression and BAB progression before you can take a PrC, but they offer ability score bonuses (which can help with MAD), and other abilities which can help out (better HP, and the various abilities they grant).

[FinalJustice]

I love human paragon. Every single human gish I've made has at least one level of it, so I can pick 10 skills of my choice and combine them with Abler Learner to have them forever. Plus, It's cool to be a paragon among those of your race.

[Rashmi]

Come to think of it, the paragon classes could be useful pieces in Gish builds. Not only do human and elf paragon classes give 2/3s spellcaster progression and BAB progression before you can take a PrC, but they offer ability score bonuses (which can help with MAD), and other abilities which can help out (better HP, and the various abilities they grant).

Thanks, I only wish I had thought of that in every single Gish thread ever on this forum.

[Emperor Tippy]

I love human paragon. Every single human gish I've made has at least one level of it, so I can pick 10 skills of my choice and combine them with Abler Learner to have them forever. Plus, It's cool to be a paragon among those of your race.

You might want to look at factotum them. It gets all skills as class skills and a few other nice things at level 1.

[AmberVael]

Thanks, I only wish I had thought of that in every single Gish thread ever on this forum.
...
Could you tone down the mocking and superior sarcasm a little bit? Just because you have thought of a very small part of a fairly specific type of build in DnD that I haven't thought of before doesn't give you a reason to talk like that.

[expirement10K14]

Is the aasimar paragon class not OGL? It is not in the SRD I use (d20srd.org), although that may have been a mistake.

I personally love the idea of a Half-Orc Paragon 3/Orc Paragon 3- you can go straight into PrC's.

[Gorbash]

It's a nice, fluffy idea, but in case you're playing a caster, not that good. Not to mention they don't give you + Spellcasting Lvl, but some race specific class. So no Gnome Wizard would ever be a Paragon, etc.

[FinalJustice]

You might want to look at factotum them. It gets all skills as class skills and a few other nice things at level 1.

I know about it. But, IIRC, the first level of human paragon also gives you one spellcasting level. So, if your DM is nice and allows you take the first level and make it work retroactively, you don't lose a CL, although I don't recall how RAW deals with it. Also, I make Sorcerers, not Wizards, the Int synergy with Factotum would go wasted.

[Person_Man]

The Half-Orc Paragon gives you the ability to Rage without an alignment restriction. It opens up various combinations that are otherwise impossible.

The Human Paragon is useful as a 1 level dip if you have some weird Skill requirement for a PrC and want early entry.

Dwarf Paragon is good for entry into Deepwarden. I've used it in a Frozen Dwarf Hulk Smash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50588) build.